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All is Vanity
See other All is Vanity Articles

Title: Attention 4um Members
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://none
Published: May 4, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-04 22:40:24 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 31699
Comments: 655

I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?

When I read my mission statement and what Freedom4um was created to be, I don't even recognize the place anymore. There will be changes made in the near future as I decide what is best for the continued growth of this forum.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 478.

#10. To: christine (#0)

Chrissy, my opinion: I don't think 4um itself is being destroyed. There may have been accusations of 4um being an echo chamber way back in the old days. Obviously, that accusation cannot be made now.

Disagreement is one of the main points of a forum. Sure it may mean some people go, but new people come. That's normal. That's healthy.

I agree that I would not have supposed that the R&D election cycle would bring this kind of discord here. But then again, maybe it's doing a service by bringing more that we really are out. If so, that may be uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or unhealthy forum-wise. It's not the point of 4um to mold any of us into something we aren't. Certainly that's not going to happen except for those individuals that allow themselves to change.

Please take heart that that's how it should be.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-04   22:55:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

What about you reading our PM's?

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-04   22:59:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

What about you reading our PM's?

Ahahahhahaha

You funny. Yes, the risk of just such an accusation was floated when PM's were added. And it's none I take politely.

But maybe that's why you accused me of it. Do you have any specific evidence to accompany your accusation, or you just want to float that and walk off?

However, my defense was put in place at the same time as the PM service and it's this. At the bottom of the PM page, you'll see a disclaimer. Read it. On it, you'll see that you were warned that I can read PM mail, and if you have private info you don't want to rink me reading, then you are encouraged to communicate some other way.

And since I'm in the impossible situation of proving a negative in my defense, I instead claim this: If you think I'm reading your pmails, then I *AM* reading your PM mails. Believe it. If you don't want me reading your pmails, you are expected to respond by making other communication arrangements.

Thank you.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-04   23:13:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

To: Peppa

What about you reading our PM's? Ahahahhahaha

You funny. Yes, the risk of just such an accusation was floated when PM's were added. And it's none I take politely.

But maybe that's why you accused me of it. Do you have any specific evidence to accompany your accusation, or you just want to float that and walk off?

However, my defense was put in place at the same time as the PM service and it's this. At the bottom of the PM page, you'll see a disclaimer. Read it. On it, you'll see that you were warned that I can read PM mail, and if you have private info you don't want to rink me reading, then you are encouraged to communicate some other way.

And since I'm in the impossible situation of proving a negative in my defense, I instead claim this: If you think I'm reading your pmails, then I *AM* reading your PM mails. Believe it. If you don't want me reading your pmails, you are expected to respond by making other communication arrangements.

Thank you.

Just FYI...

Big Brother is watching.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-04   23:16:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Just FYI...

Big Brother is watching.

Chrissy, please note the empty accusation, placed out of the blue on a thread having nothing to do with the concern you raised.

You're the judge.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-04   23:22:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Just FYI... Big Brother is watching.

Chrissy, please note the empty accusation, placed out of the blue on a thread having nothing to do with the concern you raised.

You're the judge.

BS.

Too many know.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-04   23:23:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

BS.

Too many know.

Yes, just look at the mobs.

I know for a fact your accusation is false. I *know* that. And because I know that, I now know that you, Peppa, are a fraud.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-04   23:27:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Considering the topic of this thread, making such an off-the-wall accusation here and now against you, leads me to suspect that there may be some here who would like to see this 4um shut down. I wonder why?

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   23:30:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Considering the topic of this thread, making such an off-the-wall accusation here and now against you, leads me to suspect that there may be some here who would like to see this 4um shut down.

Yes, totally, totally off the wall. Peppa's accusation is completely out of context except for the fact that she voiced it at the very point when Chrissy is very distressed.

Why?

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-04   23:34:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Yes, totally, totally off the wall. Peppa's accusation is completely out of context except for the fact that she voiced it at the very point when Chrissy is very distressed.

Why?

You admit that you read. As is carefully illustrated in your disclaimer.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-04   23:38:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You admit that you read. As is carefully illustrated in your disclaimer.

You still haven't explained why you aired this accusation on THIS thread.

I demand you explain WHY you felt this the appropriate thread to make this accusation!

As for my disclaimer, if your reading comprehension tells you that I read PM's then as I said, for YOU it is true, and you should make other communication arrangements.

I *REFUSE* to be placed in a position of having to prove I've NOT done something because that is impossible for me to do. Ergo, my defense remains that if you think I'm reading your PM's then as far as you are concerned I *AM* reading your PMs.

Now, why this accusation here, on this thread! WHY?!?!? You refuse to explain?

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-04   23:51:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-05   9:39:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Important Privacy Information: This mail system accepts, stores and displays content only to persons having password access to the screen name accounts which contain mail. Mail content is generally private and is not accessable to third parties including site administrators with the following exceptions:

* Any person knowing your login ID and password (including site administrators if you have requested your password be changed); * Any person using a computer on which you have logged onto this forum and for which you have either not closed the web browser OR you have checked the option to have the computer remember your ID and PW information (on the setup screen); * Software engineers/programmers having certain privileged access to the computer hosting this web forum. * Software engineers/programmers having "wire tap" access to the data as it is transmitted between your computer and web server.

As a modest measure of privacy, mail data stored on site is encoded in a simple fashion to make inadvertent reading of content impossible in the rare event software maintenance needs to be performed on the mail system. However, this encoding does NOT prevent a software programmer with privileged access from decoding your content maliciously.

If you are concerned about the sensitive nature of content you wish to send, you are encouraged to either NOT utilize this mail system, utilize a third party encryption tool for your content, or use this system only to make arrangements to share privileged information some other way.

This part is interesting...

""However, this encoding does NOT prevent a software programmer with privileged access from decoding your content "maliciously".

Cynicom  posted on  2008-05-05   9:43:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-05   10:18:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

to set the record straight, i am unable to read anyone else's PMs. the only way i could do that is if an account owner gave me his/her password.

christine  posted on  2008-05-05   10:25:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

heh, someone took me off bozo, now I only have 2.

I still wanna know who they are so I can make fun of them.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-05   12:06:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I've got you bozo'd, critter...MUD

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-05-05   13:08:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.

christine  posted on  2008-05-05   15:58:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.

Christine, I don't get the logic behind this. I believe that you were complaining that people are arguing in too strong terms, as in trading personal insults. In my view, the 'filter' is a most efficient and elegant way of dealing with people who don't deserve to be heard. It surely beats the 'moderator' banning people or deleting questionable posts. It also reduces tensions rather than exacerbate them.

There are individuals who, unable to defend their views, are constantly calling their 'opponents' all kinds of 'names' or attaching supposedly unflattering labels to their names. There may be more than 10 such characters at this site or, as the site grows, their number may increase. Why should everyone be forced to only ban the top 10 when there are 20 or 50 individuals that happen to be annoying.

Who, pray tell, is hurt if I (it's a generic 'I') can't stand 14 members and love everybody else? Why should I be forced to endure the nonsense or the crap that these losers are throwing at me (it's a generic 'me') as the price I must pay in order to enjoy my interaction with everyone else?

I only have 3 members on 'bozo' and I had zero until a couple of months ago. I don't miss them and, I hope, they don't miss me interacting with them. No one is harmed because I don't want to hear from these worthless losers (others may see them as worthy wise people but they look like worthless, vulgar, boring losers to me). Because I have them on 'filter' I don't need to be aggravated by their remarks and, because they know I have them on 'filter', I assume that they don't bother with personal attacks. No one is hurt and there is less tension and fewer useless personal attacks.

To conclude, I think that you should expand the number of possible bozos to infinity, rather than reduce it from 20 to 10.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-05   22:25:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Who, pray tell, is hurt if I (it's a generic 'I') can't stand 14 members and love everybody else? Why should I be forced to endure the nonsense or the crap that these losers are throwing at me (it's a generic 'me') as the price I must pay in order to enjoy my interaction with everyone else?

I've hesitated to give my own opinion on this decision because I don't want who I am to give my opinion more weight than it should. My opinion should have no more weight than any other member. This is christine's forum and it's purely her decision, and I purposely avoided giving my opinion prior as it was not asked of me.

Having said that, I disagree with the decision to cut the bozo count. One important question is how many people had more than 10 entries on their bozo list. I know of only one, but perhaps there were more. If there was only one, then this action can be construed as an action only against that one person. Was there more than one? Was that question asked before the decision was made?

The suggestion that the bozo system is being abused by people who don't want to be accountable is nonsense. The reality is, as pointed out a few times, the discord that is here is not unique to 4um. Forums across the internet are experiencing the same phenomenon, and it has to do with the election season. That's the obvious trigger point. The bozo system has been in place here since day one and even earlier on LP and it was never seriously entertained as an abuse mechanism. That didn't happen until now, when the general election has all political forums in a tizzy. Coincidence? Absolutely not. The problem is NOT the bozo system. I think a small amount of thoughtfulness makes that obvious.

Further, any concern that 4um is was being destroyed is also nonsense. It's not. As a meeting place to discuss differences, heated arguments bring more attention, not less. While certainly differing conditions will drive some people away, more and/or different people arrive to replace them. That's normal and healthy in any forum venue.

I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed. Such "fix" changes can destablize things even more. Then again, if the result is more to christine's preferences, then the fix was appropriate. 4um should take any flavor that christine prefers, whether it be in content discussed, participants invited to post, or any other particular dimension.

My humble 2c.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-06   1:54:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#493. To: Pinguinite (#478)

I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed.

I fully agree. Discussions where many views are expressed are interesting. Echo chambers are boring.

I visit this forum for 2 reasons: to get some 'fringe' news (it's true) and to learn something new or check my own views against others by having my own views challenged and by me challenged theirs. A forum where discussions are like: 'yes', 'yes', 'me too', 'I agree with you', 'I agree with you more', 'we all agree more', 'yes, we are all so right' has no value. I suppose that when everyone acquires infinite wisdom then all discussions and debates cease and we all die in peace but, until then, we all have something to learn.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-06 06:41:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed. Such "fix" changes can destablize things even more.

Effectively, cristine is lengthening her own bozo list to infinity.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-05-06 08:20:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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