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All is Vanity
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Title: Attention 4um Members
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://none
Published: May 4, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-04 22:40:24 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 31867
Comments: 655

I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?

When I read my mission statement and what Freedom4um was created to be, I don't even recognize the place anymore. There will be changes made in the near future as I decide what is best for the continued growth of this forum.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 600.

#208. To: christine, all (#0)

I don't even recognize the place anymore.

You have disruptors here.

The bozo use is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. It allows freedom of association. I use the filter to make the latest comment pages useable for me. Like for example, in the morning, Kamala posts lots and lots of informative threads. They aren't breaking news or necessarily news I want to read right then, so I filter them out. I ban from my view the proven stupid and spammers and disruptors and those who get their panties in a knot over Obama. I even banned cynicom once or twice because he made me want to pull my hair out.

Mudboy Slim and VRWC are the same disruptors here that they were in the other forums. FOH is a disruptor as well. And there are operatives. They're more difficult to weed out. People can filter them or not.

People should know that Private Mails are not secure. It sure was distressing to see Neil (Webmaster) jump in on that one thread accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers. And he was uncharacteristically rude. Who knows if it's Neil or not or where he's really coming from?

So yeah, you have problems here. Banning the obvious trolls is entirely appropriate. What seems to be happening is a hijacking of the forum by Obamaphiles and operatives using the filter to limit their discussion group. But what harm does that do unless there's lots of 'em? No real harm...I mean how many times can you post rah-rah Obama?

If the others like Jethro Tull and peppa would use some restraint from baiting them and keeping those threads alive, some of the crap would die down. People here are intelligent enough to see who's who and what their agenda is.

I suggest to do nothing but the bare minimum. The trolls are showing themselves and those paying attention can adjust accordingly.

angle  posted on  2008-05-05   8:32:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

People should know that Private Mails are not secure. It sure was distressing to see Neil (Webmaster) jump in on that one thread accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers. And he was uncharacteristically rude. Who knows if it's Neil or not or where he's really coming from?

Neil, this is the first I have heard of this (and of course I haven't read every thread that has been posted here). Is it true that you accused people who don't support Obama--which most certainly includes me but then I don't support ANY statist whore as anyone who knows me already knows--to be akin to murderers? I find that pretty hard to believe and if you said that I would like to hear your explanation. As I said in the only other post I have made to this thread I consider you a friend and that is why I find it hard to believe that you would even think such a thing, let alone post it.

My own personal disclaimer: I see some people here who don't seem to like each other for one reason or another and it is distressing to me because I like all of them. For instance, I like Peppa, FOH and Neil. I think they are all good people. But because I like all of them doesn't mean they all have to like each other. I won't be like Rodney King and ask if we can't all just get along because I know that, human nature being what it is, that we probably all can't "just get along." But all of you who don't like the others so much, or to put another way, if your dislike is so intense, the bozo filter is a good option. You don't have to see what someone has said if you don't like them and it may make your time here more enjoyable.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-05   10:32:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Neil, this is the first I have heard of this (and of course I haven't read every thread that has been posted here). Is it true that you accused people who don't support Obama--which most certainly includes me but then I don't support ANY statist whore as anyone who knows me already knows--to be akin to murderers?

That is not true.

Jethro Tull freely admitted and has never redacted nor denied, in spite of being given numerous opportunities to do so, that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights. The girl dies for the "greater good" he said.

So, by his own admission, I characterize JT as willing to murder innocent people to further his own personal interests. Since it is true that he also opposes Obama, then in so far as JT is concerned the statement "accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers" is certainly true, but it is certainly false to construe that as accusing *all* people who oppose Obama as being akin to murderers. That is false. Angle should know better than to make such a false insinuation.

As I said in the only other post I have made to this thread I consider you a friend and that is why I find it hard to believe that you would even think such a thing, let alone post it.

Thank you.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-05   14:03:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Jethro Tull freely admitted and has never redacted nor denied, in spite of being given numerous opportunities to do so, that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights. The girl dies for the "greater good" he said.

So, by his own admission, I characterize JT as willing to murder innocent people to further his own personal interests. Since it is true that he also opposes Obama, then in so far as JT is concerned the statement "accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers" is certainly true, but it is certainly false to construe that as accusing *all* people who oppose Obama as being akin to murderers. That is false. Angle should know better than to make such a false insinuation.

Neil, I'm sure you recall the story of William Tell.

After Tell was given no choice but to split the apple on his son's head, the legend has it that Hermann Gessler asked why Tell had drawn two bolts before firing at the apple.

You could have just as easily framed your question in such a way as to make JT appear noble, instead of attempting to corner him into a response that we'd expect from a murdering psycho.

As a dedicated 2nd amendment activist I understand JT's and christine's passionate views on the issue very well, and that is why I came here. (And my reasons for being quiet lately have nothing to do with the 2nd amendment)

If JT was forced to take an innocent life to save millions of others from more of "your tyranny", then trust me, he'd draw two "bolts", and the second (and possibly the first if it couldn't be fired to free the child and offer a chance of escape) would be for you.

And, you or any other tyrant would never again have occasion to ask why we place such a high value on our right to keep and bear arms, or question our love for innocent children.

We keep arms and suffer the abuse of those who will not take responsibility for their own freedom or the protection of their own children because tyrants could and likely would make us kill our loved ones if we lacked the means to prevent that. The difference between us and the Chinese though, is we can stop would be tyrants from ever issuing such edicts here, or make the price so high that it is as unthinkable to them as murdering an innocent child is to you, JT and me.

If you mean to underscore that JT is more passionate in his rhetoric than most, then I'll agree with you. But, if you framed the question properly to illuminate the truth rather than paint an ugly and inaccurate picture of me, then I'd give you the same answer as JT.

But, I wouldn't allow you to make my life's work as an activist appear to be the selfish quirk of a homicidal sociopath with a fondness for weapons and a callous disregard for the lives of our precious children.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-06   2:47:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It was a stupid question to start with. No rights can be gained by killing innocents. Just like no rights can be taken away by not killing innocents. God given rights are just that, God given. Those who believe, that the racist bigot mental nut case, called Obama, would keep his word about not bombing Iran, are under clearly not thinking right.

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-06   2:56:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Thank you all for your comments.

Mr. aristeides,

While it's true that American gun ownership has served the nation well as a deterrent to foreign invasion (the Japanese considered and rejected the idea because of the 2nd amendment), a quick scan of gun and trade publications and websites will reveal that sadly, the majority of the writers and contributors are using the flag as a blindfold. And, too many accept govt propaganda (as relayed by the official stenos at FOX) at face value and many still believe (or refuse to admit error and admit otherwise) that we are keeping America safe by committing war crimes against other nations and people.

The fact that we have a 2nd amendment right does not mean that we are still morally entitled to it.

America is not the beacon of liberty we were taught to believe in as children, and through a slow but effective process (like water eroding granite) we have been fenced in and corrupted to conditions of intellectual bankruptcy and moral compromise.

Because there is no historical precedent (the conquering of a truly free nation with psychological manipulation instead of cannon fire, and control of everything we see, read and hear (and we on the net can certainly hear footsteps) instead of concentration camps, it remains to be seen if the enemies of liberty can succeed.

It is my belief that folks in other places who lost their freedoms long before us who scoff and attempt to shame and humiliate us are silent co-conspirators, and they cannot claim the moral high ground in their hope that the flame of liberty will be extinguished once and for all.

Some would rather see America fall than to witness it's salvation by gun owners.

But, with all of our problems, we'll never be ashamed to look those cowards in the eye.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-07   18:36:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Some would rather see America fall than to witness it's salvation by gun owners.

Outstanding post Dawg.

I see gun-grabbers this way. They want us to forsake a right given to mankind. The right to self-defense.

It's not theirs to take.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07   19:55:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The seminal gun grabbers are mainly intending to disarm the holdovers from the culture they've already obliterated in other ways.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-07   19:57:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The seminal gun grabbers are mainly intending to disarm the holdovers from the culture they've already obliterated in other ways.

And we know where this leads.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07   20:22:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So far it's just been the tragic deaths of innocents, such as Mrs. Weaver and her son.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-07   20:27:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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