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All is Vanity
See other All is Vanity Articles

Title: Attention 4um Members
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://none
Published: May 4, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-04 22:40:24 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 18643
Comments: 655

I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?

When I read my mission statement and what Freedom4um was created to be, I don't even recognize the place anymore. There will be changes made in the near future as I decide what is best for the continued growth of this forum.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Nope, still three...MUD

I'm not going to tell you how I know what your bozo count is, but I'm surprised at this lack you integrity from even someone like you.

Mud, you are a bald faced liar. And I will remember this in all further dealings. Go check your bozo count and come back and tell me that it is less than three. I want to confirm that you are as dishonest as you seem here.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-06   20:08:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Nope. three it is, TripleDot.

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-05-07   7:40:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Thank you all for your comments.

Mr. aristeides,

While it's true that American gun ownership has served the nation well as a deterrent to foreign invasion (the Japanese considered and rejected the idea because of the 2nd amendment), a quick scan of gun and trade publications and websites will reveal that sadly, the majority of the writers and contributors are using the flag as a blindfold. And, too many accept govt propaganda (as relayed by the official stenos at FOX) at face value and many still believe (or refuse to admit error and admit otherwise) that we are keeping America safe by committing war crimes against other nations and people.

The fact that we have a 2nd amendment right does not mean that we are still morally entitled to it.

America is not the beacon of liberty we were taught to believe in as children, and through a slow but effective process (like water eroding granite) we have been fenced in and corrupted to conditions of intellectual bankruptcy and moral compromise.

Because there is no historical precedent (the conquering of a truly free nation with psychological manipulation instead of cannon fire, and control of everything we see, read and hear (and we on the net can certainly hear footsteps) instead of concentration camps, it remains to be seen if the enemies of liberty can succeed.

It is my belief that folks in other places who lost their freedoms long before us who scoff and attempt to shame and humiliate us are silent co-conspirators, and they cannot claim the moral high ground in their hope that the flame of liberty will be extinguished once and for all.

Some would rather see America fall than to witness it's salvation by gun owners.

But, with all of our problems, we'll never be ashamed to look those cowards in the eye.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-07   18:36:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It is my belief that folks in other places who lost their freedoms long before us who scoff and attempt to shame and humiliate us are silent co-conspirators

That's a keeper, Dawg.

Wicked laws cannot be administered impartially - and that is exactly what gun control is: wicked. When a politician or anybody else supports gun control, it is good cause to be afraid of them because they probably have something else up their sleeve. If politicians aren't doing things to law-abiding citizens they shouldn't be, they have no reason in the world to be afraid of them.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-07   19:13:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It wasn't to long ago that the British police didn't even carry guns.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-07   19:21:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It also wasn't long ago that Britain was a homogeneous nation. The birth nation of 'Free Trade' is now a multicultural wasteland. What Hitler couldn't destroy will bombings and blockades, will be taken down by from within by unfettered immigration.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-07   19:26:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The hordes came after all.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-07   19:28:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Yep. They were invited, as they are here. The PTB have taken the principle of forced school busing and applied it to nations.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-07   19:34:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It's no wonder they didn't want the John Birch society talking about Jewish influence.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-07   19:36:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Some would rather see America fall than to witness it's salvation by gun owners.

Outstanding post Dawg.

I see gun-grabbers this way. They want us to forsake a right given to mankind. The right to self-defense.

It's not theirs to take.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07   19:55:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The seminal gun grabbers are mainly intending to disarm the holdovers from the culture they've already obliterated in other ways.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-07   19:57:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The seminal gun grabbers are mainly intending to disarm the holdovers from the culture they've already obliterated in other ways.

And we know where this leads.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07   20:22:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So far it's just been the tragic deaths of innocents, such as Mrs. Weaver and her son.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-07   20:27:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If politicians aren't doing things to law-abiding citizens they shouldn't be, they have no reason in the world to be afraid of them.

And, there it is.

I have nothing to add to that.

Thanks, JT.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-08   4:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I see gun-grabbers this way. They want us to forsake a right given to mankind. The right to self-defense.

It's not theirs to take.

Roger that.

And to their cowardly collaborators I say, "It's not your right to forfeit for the rest of us".

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-08   4:27:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It wasn't to long ago that the British police didn't even carry guns.

That's right. They now know that they're about 20 years behind us, as their former colonials riot and murder police and civilians alike as immigrant syndicates cultivate sophisticated networks that traffic in illegal weapons, mainly from former Warsaw Pact countries. (The eastern bloc also had strict gun laws and they have millions of illegal weapons for sale to prove it.)

But, even when things were supposedly rosy in the UK they led the world in home invasions against homeowners who were known to be unarmed, (It's against the law to resist robberies or even sexual assaults, lest Brits think they have rights that govt and criminals are bound to respect like we, their missing link American cousins) and maiming with beer mugs kept re-constructive (plastic) surgeons in great demand then, and even forced a change to "less dangerous" beer mugs used in pubs. So, Brits were "more civilized" because their barroom brawlers blinded their weaker and less violent victims and left them resembling The Elephant Man, and the perps many of who are practiced in the art of destroying lives were secure in the knowledge that they wouldn't be shot for their trouble, and that they, the hairy knuckled goons ruled that country.

And, in England the frustration of living under oppressive govt manifested in the form of the pathologically violent, British soccer fan. Where else in the world do whites riot for no good reason and in general "ape" the behavior of those "hot-blooded other people"?

The effect of stripping Brits of their natural right to defense of life and property is, they're responding the way "equal" animals in over crowded cages do.

Welcome to ANIMAL FARM, where some are more equal than others.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-08   5:18:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It's against the law to resist robberies or even sexual assaults

I don't believe that.

Maybe against the law to own a gun and shoot them.

But a lady being raped doesn't have to just sit there and say dammit I can't resist it's against the law.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   6:55:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I don't believe that.

Maybe against the law to own a gun and shoot them.

But a lady being raped doesn't have to just sit there and say dammit I can't resist it's against the law.

"Here are the basic rules for self-defense in Britain:

You are permitted to protect yourself with a briefcase, a handbag, or keys. You should shout “Call the Police” rather than “Help.” Bystanders are not to help. They have been taught to leave such matters to the professionals. If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault.

A homeowner who discovered two robbers in his home held them with a toy gun while he telephoned the police. When the police arrived they arrested the two men, and also the homeowner, who was charged with putting someone in fear with a toy gun. An elderly woman who scared off a gang of youths by firing a cap pistol was charged with the same offense.

How did it come to this? How were the British lulled into giving up what Americans regard as an essential right? The Cato Institute identifies these steps in the process:

* 1920: Law introduced requiring certification every 3 years of necessity of owning a gun * 1937: “Necessity” redefined to discourage home or personal protection * 1953: Prevention of Crime Act passed - outlaws carrying any article for an “offensive purpose.” * 1964: “Necessity” redefined to exclude home or personal protection * 1967: Criminal law revised to allow only “reasonable” force in self-defense. Protection of property is considered unreasonable."

http://geoff82.wordpress.com/2006/11/27/the-right-to-self-defense/

You may not intimidate criminals with replica firearms, and there are cases where homeowners/victims of violence have been prosecuted for prevailing over their attackers.

Because weapons are the only reasonable way for all women (who should be guaranteed equal treatment and therefore equal protection under the law-the law cannot favor muscular Amazons with martial arts training) to resist attackers, it is clear that the rights of criminals have been elevated over the rights of victims in the UK.

Please do a little research before you post so that in the future you'll understand the difference between believing something is true, and knowing something is true.

Or, if you wish for me to educate you, then ask politely instead of issuing a surly challenge.

Bullies deserve no courtesy, and your ignorance is not my fault.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-08   8:16:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

And to their cowardly collaborators I say, "It's not your right to forfeit for the rest of us".

That's it right there! !!!!

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   9:58:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Hate to say this, but the last time a depression hit, government nannyism when into hyperdrive.

That's right. And this time will be no exception.

ratcat  posted on  2008-05-09   0:41:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#347. To: Mudboy Slim (#341)

Nope...three bozos total...MUD You're a liar here. I know five who have you on Bozo and I know there are more.

.

... posted on 2008-05-05 17:07:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Edit

Triple Dots:

How do you know how many bozo's -MUD- has?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-12   8:29:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ping to #608

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-12   8:30:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#608

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-12   11:26:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I saw your ping. I don't know why you're pinging me. As with most disputes on 4um, I'm not involved.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-05-12   11:32:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

How do you know how many bozo's -MUD- has?

I conducted a poll. Why?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-12   11:33:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-14   17:58:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-14   17:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I decided he's pretty civil for a bought and sold bushbot shill, so I took him off.

What about JCHarris or BOC (??? I almost don't remember that asshole,) ... I have no one on Bozo ... while being bozoed by two pussies !

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation".

Vladimir Lenin

noone222  posted on  2008-05-14   18:07:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I conducted a poll. Why?

With who, your sock puppets?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-14   18:12:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

-MUD- is used by a party to defend the indefensible, but other than that, he's OK :P

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-14   18:15:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You probably weren't able to read all the comments on this thread regarding the bozo feature. I was initially concerned that its overuse by so many was stifling debate and it seemed an anathema to the idea of having a free and open forum. Of those who offered opinions, we were split between eliminating the feature altogether and/or leaving it as is. I then made the decision to do what I thought was a fair compromise and that was cutting the number of slots from 20 to 10. It was pointed out to me that the potential for abuse existed in that members could use alternate IDs to stack up the number of bozos on targeted individuals in an effort to demoralize.

After further discussion and consideration, I decided that a better solution was to remove from each member's setup page, the display showing the number of bozos, thereby eliminating that abuse potential and I restored the number of slots to 20.

christine  posted on  2008-05-14   18:50:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I think it's sad you even had to deal with this issue at all.

farmfriend  posted on  2008-05-14   18:55:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Hey Robin I think you should be to bozo anyone you want to. No limit. But it aint the end of the world. You can just ignore them with your eyeballs.

I think this is a sign of things to come. A new election, a new president. People are splitting into the new camps.

I find it hard to believe that you would leave this place after all these years.

No Robin and no zipporah. I'm shocked I tell you.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-14   22:09:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-15   9:42:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-15   9:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?

I was initially concerned that its overuse by so many was stifling debate and it seemed an anathema to the idea of having a free and open forum.

this was my major concern and what everyone seems to be losing focus of. in truth, this split has been coming for a long time. robin had shared with me several months ago that she was becoming increasingly unhappy with the rancor and divisiveness that was occurring on 4um. it was and has been distressing to me as well.

an election always brings this kind of division to forums. i didn't think it would happen here as i thought that we were mostly unified in our disdain for the establishment (two party fraud) and that we would never again make the decision to vote for "the lesser of two evils." well, as we've learned, i was wrong in my assumption.

this is what is at the core of the schism. there's been an ideological and political parting of the ways between the two camps.

christine  posted on  2008-05-15   10:20:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

an election always brings this kind of division to forums. i didn't think it would happen here as i thought that we were mostly unified in our disdain for the establishment (two party fraud) and that we would never again make the decision to vote for "the lesser of two evils." well, as we've learned, i was wrong in my assumption.

I didn't think it would happen here either. Most of the participants on this forum are mature enough to have seen a plentitude of examples of the two party fraud over their lifetimes. The PTB have us so well figured out that they're able to "create" enough shallow appearance of an "election" that it soon causes mass amnesia regarding substantive issues and arguments about nothingness break out between people that agree on most issues EVEN WHEN THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES LIBERAL or CONSERVATIVE because at their core they are AMERICANS first.

I wish I had the answer to this enigma. In my lifetime I have never witnessed so little value in the "vote". Our inability to deal with the lesser of a hundred evils has brought us to this sad election cycle without a candidate worthy of one AMERICAN vote. It's sad and disturbing to see people getting so caught up in the farce that they shun their friends for it.

We all want our liberty back and none of the three primary presidential (losers) candidates want to give it back. How can a freedom lover cast their vote for what they perceive as the lesser of tyrants ?

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation".

Vladimir Lenin

noone222  posted on  2008-05-15   10:41:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

this was my major concern and what everyone seems to be losing focus of. in truth, this split has been coming for a long time. robin had shared with me several months ago that she was becoming increasingly unhappy with the rancor and divisiveness that was occurring on 4um. it was and has been distressing to me as well.

an election always brings this kind of division to forums. i didn't think it would happen here as i thought that we were mostly unified in our disdain for the establishment (two party fraud) and that we would never again make the decision to vote for "the lesser of two evils." well, as we've learned, i was wrong in my assumption.

this is what is at the core of the schism. there's been an ideological and political parting of the ways between the two camps.

Christine,

I guess I'm too stupid to understand why people do not see your point about how the bozo was used to stifle debate, or hide the truth.. I never had a problem being bozo'd other than, having to re-explain a point over and over, while goofy little cowards were allowed to pretend to take some moral highground.

I don't believe anyone said, yes, by eliminating bozo we can force YOU TO READ what you don't want to, or force you to respond.. what we were saying I think, was when facts were presented, it would be obvious that a person was puposefully ignoring it, and could not pretend not to 'see' the info by hiding behind the bozo feature..

It's obvious the folks at Robins place do not have an flipping clue about the truth of the situation. They make it sound like those bozod whined about it as it's own feature, while the truth points the finger at intellectually dishonest.

Now that we know that Robin had expressed her displeasure with the tenor of the forum long before the 'bozo' feature was used to abuse, it further proves, the split was never about the bozo at all, it was about the inability to hide behind it. The inability to carry on honest debate and discussion was the knife at the throat of the rest of the posters here.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-15   10:42:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-15   10:46:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

unless you mean Be A Chooser

Oh yeah ... that's the one.

I think the system as it has been from the beginning is user friendly and serves the purpose of all concerned.

I have no one bozo'ed.

noone222  posted on  2008-05-15   10:58:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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