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Title: Attention 4um Members
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URL Source: http://none
Published: May 4, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-04 22:40:24 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 17742
Comments: 655
I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else? When I read my mission statement and what Freedom4um was created to be, I don't even recognize the place anymore. There will be changes made in the near future as I decide what is best for the continued growth of this forum.
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#1. To: christine (#0)
Can't say I blame you. But aside from banning all of the Obama commies, what can you do? I say get rid of the bozo filter. Make the wimps face the music.
Tagline space for rent.
Where you have confusion you get noise as the confusion resolves it is likely to get noisier. What I think you are seeing is people who do not want to confront reality. Such noise is the confusion blowing off. Let it proceed to completion and it will stabilize at a new equilibrium. I would suggest simply enforcing civility should be sufficient restore order. If people cannot bear to hear a contrary view and have to resort to the bozo to avoid being confronted with data they wish to remain ignorant of that is to their detriment and no one else's. I've stayed out of the frays because it is a foregone conclusion, to me, that Obummer is just as much under control as Hitlery and McInsane. So, I choose not to play, but will comment where I think appropriate or useful.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
yep, that's exactly what i'm thinking.
Amen. Let the Hopeful wonders defend socialism.
I am bozoed 3 times now. I have no one on bozo. I think people that use bozo filter are sissies. :)
Tagline space for rent.
I generally avoid the political threads too. Not always, but most of the time. They are ugly.
Yeah you should know something about ugly there baldy. :p
Tagline space for rent.
When I read my mission statement and what Freedom4um was created to be, I don't even recognize the place anymore. There will be changes made in the near future as I decide what is best for the continued growth of this forum. I am glad you are addressing this Christine. There are some issues not addressed publically that require some resolution immediately. It's stand time.
Amen bro.
Tagline space for rent.
Chrissy, my opinion: I don't think 4um itself is being destroyed. There may have been accusations of 4um being an echo chamber way back in the old days. Obviously, that accusation cannot be made now. Disagreement is one of the main points of a forum. Sure it may mean some people go, but new people come. That's normal. That's healthy. I agree that I would not have supposed that the R&D election cycle would bring this kind of discord here. But then again, maybe it's doing a service by bringing more that we really are out. If so, that may be uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or unhealthy forum-wise. It's not the point of 4um to mold any of us into something we aren't. Certainly that's not going to happen except for those individuals that allow themselves to change. Please take heart that that's how it should be.
What about you reading our PM's?
your point isn't valid, Neil, when everyone is employing the bozo and the level of distrust by the two opposing sides is the killer.
it seems to me, as a newbie, that the bozo filter is misused sometimes. It is used as a public punishment. Why post that you are putting someone on bozo? Just do it and be done with it, and keep it to yourself. Politics and religion makes for some interesting and sometimes heated conversations. There is a saying that "Iron sharpens iron". Think of arguments as sharpening your mind. It helps define your own beliefs when you have an honest antagonist. .02, carry on.
------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------
Putting aside the fact that we all can write in Chuck Baldwin or Ron Paul which of the 3 Stooges would you prefer? I kinda thought everyone was exercising their freedom as we were allowed to, BOXO filter and all.
"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."
Speaking for myself, I'm happy to engage anyone who disagrees with me. My only criteria is that my opponent engage in debate. If it's someone who only insults and never engages in debate, as is the practice of 2 I've got bozo'd, then I'll prefer to take a pass. Cutting out the bozo filter will bring more mayhem, not less, or if it brings less, it'll be because people leave simply because they get badgered. If harmony on the forum is what you want, that may come in the long run, but for the wrong reason. Don't forget that there are shills who would destroy a forum given the chance. They may not be here now, but I know you believe they exist. Removing the bozo filter will make that easier for them. Unless perhaps you would plan on banning people more frequently. (I don't know if you've been doing that lately).
The bozo filter is the only reason I'm still here. I do not enjoy foul mouthed attacks just for having a difference of opinion. And if I consider someone to be a pest or a troll or a waste of my time, I appreciate being able to filter that out. It's the only way I will be able to enjoy this forum anymore. I'm here for open, honest discussions of the issues; finding agreement where we can and agreeing to disagree where we cannot. Bozo allows me to concentrate on posters who are capable of having honest, civil discussions.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I don't expect you to grasp this, but.......the Os are apparently employing the bozo in what appears to be a coordinated attempt to damage 4um's freedom message. If you have concern for our 1st Amendment (we know your position on the 2nd), you'd act with some degree of consideration toward the owner.
So, everyone on your bozo conducted a foul mouth attack?
Ahahahhahaha You funny. Yes, the risk of just such an accusation was floated when PM's were added. And it's none I take politely. But maybe that's why you accused me of it. Do you have any specific evidence to accompany your accusation, or you just want to float that and walk off? However, my defense was put in place at the same time as the PM service and it's this. At the bottom of the PM page, you'll see a disclaimer. Read it. On it, you'll see that you were warned that I can read PM mail, and if you have private info you don't want to rink me reading, then you are encouraged to communicate some other way. And since I'm in the impossible situation of proving a negative in my defense, I instead claim this: If you think I'm reading your pmails, then I *AM* reading your PM mails. Believe it. If you don't want me reading your pmails, you are expected to respond by making other communication arrangements. Thank you.
I do not enjoy foul mouthed attacks just for having a difference of opinion. So, everyone on your bozo conducted a foul mouth attack? When viewed through the prism of NWO shills, then most comments are offensive.
Yeah well, Neil........ You're going to have to deal with it.
"Amen. Let the Hopeful wonders defend socialism." Bozo is fer wimps...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Yep...'fraid so.
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, What about you reading our PM's? Ahahahhahaha You funny. Yes, the risk of just such an accusation was floated when PM's were added. And it's none I take politely. But maybe that's why you accused me of it. Do you have any specific evidence to accompany your accusation, or you just want to float that and walk off? However, my defense was put in place at the same time as the PM service and it's this. At the bottom of the PM page, you'll see a disclaimer. Read it. On it, you'll see that you were warned that I can read PM mail, and if you have private info you don't want to rink me reading, then you are encouraged to communicate some other way. And since I'm in the impossible situation of proving a negative in my defense, I instead claim this: If you think I'm reading your pmails, then I *AM* reading your PM mails. Believe it. If you don't want me reading your pmails, you are expected to respond by making other communication arrangements. Thank you. Just FYI... Big Brother is watching.
I respectfully disagree. The bozo filter is not causing the lack of trust. Not at all. What's causing it is the high stakes that, apparently, many of us have in the outcome of this election. And that's a fact regardless of what people might be saying to the contrary. The plain truth is that if the R&D elections didn't matter to us, then none of this discord would be happening. It's NOT the bozo filter Chrissy.
The way it's currently employed, it is. Socialism cannot be defended.
Hi Neil...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, You're right. I don't grasp that. What you say is not feasible/possible.
If socialism cannot be defended, neither can Obama. That said, it's awful hard to defend the Hildabeast and BigJohn McCain, too...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Right. Sure. Ye of Forum fame....... I picked up 3 today alone, so has Peppa. Has a coconut hit you on your head?
That said, it's awful hard to defend the Hildabeast and BigJohn McCain, too...MUD Ditto on all points.
He works for the globalist machine. He has no country and doesn't give a rip about what happens here.. it's a game to him
Big Brother is watching. Chrissy, please note the empty accusation, placed out of the blue on a thread having nothing to do with the concern you raised. You're the judge.
Chrissy, please note the empty accusation, placed out of the blue on a thread having nothing to do with the concern you raised. You're the judge. BS. Too many know.
Of course it is, Neil, don't be obtuse!! If the RATS are unwilling to defend their viewpoints, and instead become automatons bent of spewing Obama talking points (but not engaging in rational debate), you lose a lot of what is special about this place. Why not--instead of eliminating the BOZO feature--we reduce the number of $um folks you can have on BOZO at one time? Perhaps 5, or 3, and let the real rational debate begin...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Did 'someone' slip up and comment about something said only in PM?
Tagline space for rent.
Please see my post #10.
Too many know. Yes, just look at the mobs. I know for a fact your accusation is false. I *know* that. And because I know that, I now know that you, Peppa, are a fraud.
LOL...robin, as one of your BOZOs, it does appear that you are a rather allergic to debate. With all due respect, that is no way to learn...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Yes, just look at the mobs. I know for a fact your accusation is false. I *know* that. And because I know that, I now know that you, Peppa, are a fraud. Sure you do.
He admitted it.
Of course it's possible, and the fact that you can't see it doesn't surprise me at all.
Yes, I most certainly do.
Considering the topic of this thread, making such an off-the-wall accusation here and now against you, leads me to suspect that there may be some here who would like to see this 4um shut down. I wonder why?
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Yupper.
Come on, spill the beans! If this is really happening, I think it best that the proof get aired out in public. A lot of people would probably like to know if their PMs are being spied upon.
Tagline space for rent.
Most of the discussions have been quite civil. I have yet to see one poster going completely off the deep end and engaging in offers of violence or offering commentaries on parentage as of yet. To my mind, things are still civil when people are relatively on-topic and avoiding threats of violence or inquiring as to whether one's parents are brothers or not. The problem is really people wanting to live in an echo chamber and not willing to see ideas or ideals challenged. While that is their right, it says more about them than it does anything else. Please leave the bozo filter in place. I use it as a "short-term timeout" function when needed, then remove the filter a couple of weeks later after people have a chance to cool down.
Elect anyone but Obama, Clinton, or McCain.
Sure you do. Come on, spill the beans! If this is really happening, I think it best that the proof get aired out in public. A lot of people would probably like to know if their PMs are being spied upon. He admitted it...
Yes, totally, totally off the wall. Peppa's accusation is completely out of context except for the fact that she voiced it at the very point when Chrissy is very distressed. Why?
I hereby give the anti Charleston Heston permission to read all my PM. Nothing in there I wouldn't tell the man w/o a number to his face.
see 45
IMHO, the Bozo filter is used (in my case) to filter those brick walls whose minds can not be changed who constantly post things I totally DISAGREE With, such as the hard caore Obamaphiles. IN THE INTEREST OF FREEDOM OF CHOICE, I choose to filter these posts to streamline the visible posts which saves me a lot of time since I don;t have to sift through the diatribes I disagree with..unless I feel like it. I say do NOT get rid of BOZO. I want to a streamlined forum where I can pick and choose whose posts I read. My time is limited and valuable. Another perspective. Indie
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx Mud, for once in your cowardly, propaganda spewing life, try your hand at rational debate instead your idiotic Limbaugh talking points.
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That's my question too.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
"Disagreement is one of the main points of a forum. Sure it may mean some people go, but new people come. That's normal. That's healthy." Problem is, if we all ignore variant viewpoints, you get a bunch of folks posting past each other and threads lose what used to make threads interesting...rational debate!! "I agree that I would not have supposed that the R&D election cycle would bring this kind of discord here. But then again, maybe it's doing a service by bringing more that we really are about. If so, that may be uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or unhealthy forum-wise. It's not the point of 4um to mold any of us into something we aren't. Certainly that's not going to happen except for those individuals that allow themselves to change. Please take heart that that's how it should be." I think I'm with you, Neil, about the folks not changing unless they are prepared to change. I realize many of my fellow 4umers are part of the ObamaNation and there's nothing I can say to change that. More power to them!! But if they are free to post, immune to comments and questions from those who may disagree with their viewpoints, what find of 4um is THAT?! It becomes a propoganda center. Heck, I could become a Paulbot and become quite annoying rather quickly...LOL!! If I wanna spew Ron Paul propoganda, I oughtta at least be willing to defend his views on-Forum...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Peppa, have you presented your entire case?
Mud, why don't you call her "Penis Breath". Isn't that how freepers debate? Or is that just you?
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Shaddup, moron, the adults are talking...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Why? You admit that you read. As is carefully illustrated in your disclaimer.
Mud, what if they let you call them "Penis Breath". That's basically the only sort of comment you're capable of making. So would that make things OK with you?
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Sounds like you have me on Bozo, but I agree.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My point is made Mud. You're a moron incapable of rational debate.
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Well, if you've been bad-mouthing me behind my back, it's news to me. Can't say I'm surprised though.
If there was ever a reason for bozo...
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
You will have to work that out with Christine.
That's right. Mud can't defend his viewpoint, he can only attack people for expressing theirs. It's called "Freeper Debate". If you can't refute the other side, try to shut them up with harassment tactics.
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Gun grabbers deserve no less.
"Debate" is not necessarily the be-all end-all. What's wrong with a magazine that gives different opinions about world events? Sure the writers may not read one another's articles, but the general readership will. Do you want to FORCE the writers to read each other's articles? If you want all the articles to agree, maybe, but that may be because some writers walk away.
No, Mud's sulking because of his double digit bozo rank.
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Since the bozo has become a tool to demoralize in my opinion (I just picked up another during this thread) I think a MAXIMUM number might be the way to go. LF had a goofy rating system that was misused in a similar fashion. If anyone has more than three to five people they can't stand, perhaps they're in the wrong place.
this is what is distressing. the level of distrust among us now. both sides accusing the other of an agenda to destroy or shut down 4um.
You still haven't explained why you aired this accusation on THIS thread. I demand you explain WHY you felt this the appropriate thread to make this accusation! As for my disclaimer, if your reading comprehension tells you that I read PM's then as I said, for YOU it is true, and you should make other communication arrangements. I *REFUSE* to be placed in a position of having to prove I've NOT done something because that is impossible for me to do. Ergo, my defense remains that if you think I'm reading your PM's then as far as you are concerned I *AM* reading your PMs. Now, why this accusation here, on this thread! WHY?!?!? You refuse to explain?
Don't let it get to you. Leave the bozo and let us continue.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Christine will judge. And I suspect Christine knows me a lot better than she knows you.
And I suspect Christine knows me a lot better than she knows you. It's not about sides, it's about privacy. So, it's up to her. If the webmaster can't be trusted, as you have said, you have your rights to do whatever you want, then, of course, it's up to everyone to decide whether it's worth it to accomodate your nose in their butt.
I'm afraid it was too subtle, but I enjoyed it. I once suggested a similar idea for Bush/Cheney - we create this alternate reality for them to live in with simulated war/torture/destruction/rape/offshore-accts so they can leave the world alone and still be happy. Rather like the joke about Baptists in heaven, they have this huge wall around them so they can think they are the only ones in heaven. Hey, that's almost like the bozo filter - I've made a full circle.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Chrissy, that's only true if there are only 2 sides. If you need a break, you might consider temporarily banning anyone you feel might be causing a problem. If that includes me than I'll gladly honor that for you and it's okay. I would come back when you decide. I now agree there is a problem that should be addressed.
I agree with robin. That is the right of anyone, regardless of their opinions. I also admit to bozoing two, one of which is a shill, Mister Clean, the other for his absolutely foul mouth, which I do not appreciate. I have come close to doing the same for another, but have resisted. I am also on bozo from considerably more, which may have something to do with my opinion about Obama.... perhaps? Just my opinion, but if you do away with the bozo, you will need to establish a committee to resolve banishments, at least I would think so. Or, you may find that the spam from shills will overwhelm the genuine posters, of which there are many in 4um. The bozo filter is a wonderful tool for limiting the shills in their ability to disrupt the free exchange of ideas. I think that most of this problem will disappear once the queen is elected anyway. This, of course, is just my opinion for what it is worth.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest. ++++++++++ Attention, Shrub; A life of evil is ultimately a life of wretchedness.
Still no evidence....
And I would be happy to take a long vacation, if that would help.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I bozo nobody. I want to know everyone's views whether I agree with them or not. With open free speech there is bound to be some disagreement. After this election I think things will settle down around here. There are a lot of people here who are really into politics.
God is always good!
In other words, discord would increase, not decrease. I agree.
You were told at the sign up that the PM's weren't secure and that you should act accordingly. This was done for Neil's protection more than anything else. There was an incident in the past where PMs did get read. People assumed THOSE PMs were secure when they weren't, so a different tact was taken here, i.e., here you were told not to assume security in the PMs. Neil is right. He can't prove that he didn't read them and it's silly to ask him to. But I've known Neil for many years and I seriously doubt if he does read them. It simply isn't in character for him.
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I started off with a just a few on bozo for the beyond rude. Then I expanded it to blatant racists, the generally annoying and trolls. I intend to remove names over time and see how it goes, but it is what I need now.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I think part of what you're watching is exactly what Claire Wolf describes when she says we are in that in between state of attempting to work through a broken and corrupt system and outright shooting the bas-. I spend time reading through another forum's general discussion board and the same discussion is going on. So far, the only guideline has been to keep the conservation as civil as possible and let the debate take it's course. Even with that guideline, harsh exchanges happen. So know you're not alone. My two cents is to do nothing. Nothing other than do your best to keep the conversation as civil as possible. At the very least, I would be slow to implement any change and wait until the Primaries conclude, re-evaluate and go from there. My other two cents, is if you can arrange for it, take a couple/three days away from the board to rest, de-stress and come back re-energized.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
There is no guarantee of privacy in the PMs. That's the only way to defeat a charge that they are being snooped into. If you want a secure link, use the PM to give the person a one off hotmail address and use that for your private discussion. Be that as it may, I seriously doubt if anyone is reading your PMs.
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I don't think that would help this forum at all. This forum needs contributors and you contribute a lot.
God is always good!
Continue what? Breaking down into tiny, non communicative camps? LF was ruined by an organized "rating system" and now the bozo is being used in the same way. I think some modicum of respect needs to be enforced and a limit to the number of bozo's. People can rotate "offenders" on and off as needed, but the current system is being used as a tool.
regarding the bozo, i think the solution is a compromise. we'll keep the feature, but limit the number of spaces. i'll be making the decision on what that number should be.
Perhaps you need to MYOB about who puts who on bozo. The kill file function has been a part of this software for years. And opponents in an argument or lively discussion almost never change their minds in the course of an argument or lively discussion so the smart money has always been on a lurker focus in forum comments in the first place. I have no sympathy for this sort of attack based on such a naval contemplation point.
I can ignore with a simple scroll by, I don't need the bozo function. In this tangent of attack, the malfunction lies with the Prima Donnas whining about who bozos them, not those using the function as designed.
You admitted it neil. Like i said, it's between you and Christine. Perhaps a software change where access to read is permitted only by the forum owner.
I am confused. Why should anyone give a rats ass if someone has them on bozo? I think the real solution is to take the bozo count off the set up page. Then you wouldn't know how many people had you on bozo.
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Which is why the bozo counts are not publicized. If people weren't starting threads about how many people have them on bozo, JT, then maybe this wouldn't rise to the level of a rating system. Is that why you started that thread? Have you been campaigning for this change?
That's my opinion. If you disagree, MYOB.
That's what I do.. Except I do choose to 'ignore threads' from time to time.
Make it 3 so no one else can bozo me. :)
Tagline space for rent.
I don't think that's possible on a Unix server where the operator needs to have root access. It would require some kind of encryption key, and even then it might not be possible. A simpler solution is to say that if you don't trust the webmaster, don't pour out your guts in a PM. Use regular email for that.
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God is always good! RickyJ i'm not trying to cause problems between you two, but, robin, if you have rickyj bozo'ed, then you can't see a supportive and complimentary post like that.
That was very nice, thank you Ricky. You contribute a lot here too.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
As I said above, the real solution might be to take the bozo count off the content filter page. Then no one would know how many people had them on bozo.
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LOL!! I don't, but, the fact remains something people should be aware of. I'll leave it at that ...
The thought struck me as the argument began. It was spontaneous. So if you consider an attempt at problem solving some organized campaigning for a change, so be it. I'll tell you this here and now; if it doesn't change, like robin, I'm gone. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.
Oh I never do when I am this amused by forum versions of stupid pet tricks. I have check out your attack points over the past few weeks and disagree on most of them and leave them alone as unworthy of responding to. I fully feel you have a right to your opinions and leave it at that. But now you are doing a 'poor me' little whiny hair shirt number over the bozo. Grow a pair will ya? Or switch to panties with a narrow enough gusset to fit your true crotch.
That is why the notice was put on the page. To make people aware of it.
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"Smokey Cabal Back Room Propaganda Bar for Obikers, McPikers and HRC-Dykers" ?? (with Ohoes giving free lapdances)
Yep.
Please quit again.
Long time, no post :) I have no dog in this hunt, but FWIW, three points: a) the bozo filter is a valuable tool. I personally don't use it as I wish to know what is being said. But many posters whom I respect greatly and whom I think are an asset to your forum, benefit from their use of the bozo filter. b) I'll re-iterate my long held personal belief that the "acid" that eats away at this forum, as it has eaten away at other forums, is the incivility: the personal attacks, the vulgarities, etc. If someone can't make their point without swearing and attacking someone else personally, they really don't have a point worth discussing - they just have a vendetta. But that kind of constant barrage of incivility (from all sides, from any side) eats away at a forum. It drives away lurkers, it spams threads, and it smothers discussion. If you're in a mood to try something new, try banning (even temporarily after a warning or three), whomever in your opinion persists in vulgar personal attacks and who doesn't debate but just rants. Remove the uncivil, let the dust settle, see what that looks like. c) I don't believe for one second that Neil McIver has ever has read PM's, aside from any sent to him or any involved in software/database problems. Regardless, should he need to, Neil McIver is one of the few people I would trust to read my PM's. If I had a forum I wouldn't hesitate to give Neil the keys. The guy is as honest, trustworthy, and transparent as you'll ever find. Otherwise, best wishes to you and all.
(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)
In your own reality Peppa, yes it's true. Believe it, as I said. And I note you still post NOTHING to support your accusation beyond my "admission". No, no. You ain't dumping this load of crap and then claiming you aren't involved. You are in up to your eyeballs. You dumped it, you are IN it. You are a liar and I know it! From a computer professional to a complete novice: As long as the service is hosted on my server, I can get any kind of access I want by bypassing the web access completely. Christine can only remove my access by transferring the site to another server which I do not control, and even then, if she enlists my help in maintenance, I could most certainly get any access I want while rendering such services. Feel free to use this "admission" against me in any future slanderous accusations. So nice to know I've been accused as I have from a complete computer novice.... I assume, quite safely I *know* that you have nothing *nothing* with with to back up your slander. You, Peppa are a fraud. As far as I am concerned, you do not belong here. But I might be inclined to change my mind if you could make up some plausible explanation for making this accusation on this thread. How good are you at that sort of thing?
No kidding! Good to see you! Do stick around!
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Stop whining, it's lame.
I don't actually care what you think of me. You have admitted what you are, behaved horribly, and now continue to show what you are not. So, you know... it's not my problem.
Pipe down, lefty. Your tree hugging act has worn thin.
You are one serious piece of work Neil...if anyone needs accountability here, it's you.
You know, you might have something there! That display was certainly an add-on after the bozo filter. I thought it would be a good indicator to a user as to how they are coming off, but yes, it seems that serious people would never really care or need to know.
We could have three slots on the bozo that keep the posts from appearing. We could then also have a ten slot "byeltsinater" that made the posts come out like this: Make .. it -- ((3!)) ... so - no -- one ... (else!) ... can -- bozo ... ME! Or maybe a multi slot "Mudboy Function" that transformed the posts as follows: Make it 3 so no one else can bozo me, penis breath ... MUD. A BeAChooser function is also possible: Make it 3 so no one else can bozo me. KOOK! ROTFLOL!
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I am very amused by all this. I'm not going anywhere. But thanks for sharing anyway.
I'm not a serious person, so I wanna know not only how many, but who they are, so I can make fun of them on every thread and they can't see it.
Tagline space for rent.
We could then also have a ten slot "byeltsinater" that made the posts come out like this: Make .. it -- ((3!)) ... so - no -- one ... (else!) ... can -- bozo ... ME! Or maybe a multi slot "Mudboy Function" that transformed the posts as follows: Make it 3 so no one else can bozo me, penis breath ... MUD. A BeAChooser function is also possible: Make it 3 so no one else can bozo me. KOOK! ROTFLOL! Or an Obamaphile feature that could fill up the forum with endless rants about a racist Marxist baby slaughtering gun grabbing elitist Establishment member ??
That's a great idea, or we can even make it a Paloator: Make it 3 love palo
Tagline space for rent.
LOL! Can we add in the double flipback magic button so you can see it, but they don't know you can??
Maybe not now, but you will. That's your history. I hear Prozac helps.
It's an alternate tactic for those who can't defend their position. They use the personal attacks to punish those who post well thought out opinions that they disagree with - but can't refute. Yukon, ALS and most freeper types resort to this.
.
Or how about a McCain booster that fills up every post with silly, childish, goober exciting, vapid, hot button, Limbaugh style mindless hate speech like "Marxist", "Gun Grabber", "elitist", or "Baby Slaughterer"?
.
*sigh* - You do make a good point there Starwind. I do sometimes boil over and pour out a lot of profane invective when I'm especially angry about something. I'll do my best to keep the profanity in check from now on. No promises, mind you. But, I'll try.
#2. To: christine (#0)
#3. To: Critter (#1)
#4. To: Critter (#1)
I say get rid of the bozo filter.
#5. To: christine (#3)
#6. To: Original_Intent (#2)
#7. To: Fred Mertz (#6)
They are ugly.
#8. To: christine (#0)
I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?
#9. To: Jethro Tull (#4)
Amen.
#10. To: christine (#0)
#11. To: Pinguinite (#10)
#12. To: Pinguinite (#10)
#13. To: christine (#0)
#14. To: christine (#0)
#15. To: christine (#3)
yep, that's exactly what i'm thinking.
#16. To: christine, Pinguinite (#3)
#17. To: Pinguinite (#10)
#18. To: robin (#16)
I do not enjoy foul mouthed attacks just for having a difference of opinion.
#19. To: Peppa (#11)
What about you reading our PM's?
#20. To: Jethro Tull (#18)
To: robin
#21. To: Pinguinite (#19)
If you think I'm reading your pmails, then I *AM* reading your PM mails. Believe it. If you don't want me reading your pmails, you are expected to respond by making other communication arrangements.
#22. To: Jethro Tull (#4)
"I say get rid of the bozo filter."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#23. To: Critter (#5)
"I think people that use bozo filter are sissies. :)"
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#24. To: christine, all (#19)
To: Peppa
#25. To: christine (#12)
your point isn't valid, Neil, when everyone is employing the bozo and the level of distrust by the two opposing sides is the killer.
#26. To: Mudboy Slim (#22)
Bozo is fer wimps...MUD
#27. To: Pinguinite (#10)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#28. To: Jethro Tull (#17)
don't expect you to grasp this, but.......the Os are apparently employing the bozo in what appears to be a coordinated attempt to damage 4um's freedom message.
#29. To: Jethro Tull (#26)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#30. To: Pinguinite (#25)
The bozo filter is not causing the lack of trust. Not at all
#31. To: Mudboy Slim (#29)
If socialism cannot be defended, neither can Obama.
#32. To: Jethro Tull (#30)
#33. To: christine, (#24)
Just FYI...
#34. To: Pinguinite, christine (#33)
Just FYI... Big Brother is watching.
#35. To: Pinguinite, christine, Jethro Tull (#28)
"What you say is not feasible/possible."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#36. To: Peppa (#34)
#37. To: Mudboy Slim (#35)
If the RATS are unwilling to defend their viewpoints, and instead become automatons bent of spewing Obama talking points (but not engaging in rational debate), you lose a lot of what is special about this place.
#38. To: Peppa (#34)
BS.
#39. To: robin (#16)
"The bozo filter is the only reason I'm still here. I do not enjoy foul mouthed attacks just for having a difference of opinion. And if I consider someone to be a pest or a troll or a waste of my time, I appreciate being able to filter that out. It's the only way I will be able to enjoy this forum anymore."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#40. To: Pinguinite (#38)
BS. Too many know.
#41. To: Critter (#36)
#42. To: Pinguinite (#28)
What you say is not feasible/possible.
#43. To: Peppa (#40)
Sure you do.
#44. To: Pinguinite (#38)
#45. To: Peppa (#41)
He admitted it.
#46. To: Peppa (#40)
Sure you do.
#47. To: christine (#0)
#48. To: Critter (#46)
To: Peppa
#49. To: robin (#44)
Considering the topic of this thread, making such an off-the-wall accusation here and now against you, leads me to suspect that there may be some here who would like to see this 4um shut down.
#50. To: Critter (#46)
#51. To: Critter (#46)
#52. To: christine, all (#0)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#53. To: Mudboy Slim (#35)
spewing Obama talking points (but not engaging in rational debate),
#54. To: Pinguinite (#49)
#55. To: Pinguinite (#10)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#56. To: Peppa (#48)
He admitted it...
#57. To: Mudboy Slim (#39)
LOL...robin, as one of your BOZOs, it does appear that you are a rather allergic to debate.
#58. To: ... (#53)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#59. To: Pinguinite (#49)
Yes, totally, totally off the wall. Peppa's accusation is completely out of context except for the fact that she voiced it at the very point when Chrissy is very distressed.
#60. To: Mudboy Slim (#55)
But if they are free to post, immune to comments and questions from those who may disagree with their viewpoints, what find of 4um is THAT?!
#61. To: IndieTX (#52)
I say do NOT get rid of BOZO.
#62. To: Mudboy Slim (#58)
Shaddup, moron, the adults are talking...MUD
#63. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
Nothing in there I wouldn't tell the man w/o a number to his face.
#64. To: ... (#62)
#65. To: Pinguinite (#56)
He admitted it... Peppa, have you presented your entire case?
#66. To: robin (#64)
If there was ever a reason for bozo...
#67. To: Pinguinite (#63)
Well, if you've been bad-mouthing me behind my back, it's news to me.
#68. To: Mudboy Slim (#55)
Problem is, if we all ignore variant viewpoints, you get a bunch of folks posting past each other and threads lose what used to make threads interesting...rational debate!!
#69. To: Pinguinite (#68)
Do you want to FORCE the writers to read each other's articles?
#70. To: A bozo MAXIMUM (#67)
#71. To: robin, Pinguinite, all (#44)
leads me to suspect that there may be some here who would like to see this 4um shut down. I wonder why?
#72. To: Peppa (#59)
You admit that you read. As is carefully illustrated in your disclaimer.
#73. To: christine (#71)
#74. To: Peppa (#65)
You will have to work that out with Christine.
#75. To: Pinguinite (#74)
You will have to work that out with Christine. Christine will judge.
#76. To: Pinguinite (#72)
#77. To: christine (#71)
this is what is distressing. the level of distrust among us now. both sides accusing the other of an agenda to destroy or shut down 4um.
#78. To: robin, christine, Pinguinite (#16)
foul mouthed attacks
#79. To: Peppa (#75)
If the webmaster can't be trusted, as you have said, you have your rights to do whatever you want, then, of course, it's up to everyone to decide whether it's worth it to accomodate your nose in their butt.
#80. To: Pinguinite, christine (#77)
#81. To: christine (#0)
#82. To: richard9151 (#78)
Just my opinion, but if you do away with the bozo, you will need to establish a committee to resolve banishments, at least I would think so. Or, you may find that the spam from shills will overwhelm the genuine posters, of which there are many in 4um.
#83. To: Peppa (#59)
You admit that you read. As is carefully illustrated in your disclaimer.
#84. To: richard9151 (#78)
#85. To: christine (#0)
#86. To: Peppa (#75)
It's not about sides, it's about privacy.
#87. To: robin (#80)
And I would be happy to take a long vacation, if that would help.
#88. To: robin (#73)
Leave the bozo and let us continue.
#89. To: Pinguinite, robin, Jethro Tull, all (#82)
#90. To: Jethro Tull (#70)
"Since the bozo has become a tool to demoralize in my opinion (I just picked up another during this thread) I think a MAXIMUM number might be the way to go. LF had a goofy rating system that was misused in a similar fashion. If anyone has more than three to five people they can't stand, perhaps they're in the wrong place."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#91. To: christine (#89)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#92. To: Pinguinite (#79)
If the webmaster can't be trusted, as you have said, you have your rights to do whatever you want, then, of course, it's up to everyone to decide whether it's worth it to accomodate your nose in their butt. Still no evidence
#93. To: Ferret Mike (#90)
#94. To: Jethro Tull (#88)
Breaking down into tiny, non communicative camps? LF was ruined by an organized "rating system" and now the bozo is being used in the same way.
#95. To: Ferret Mike (#90)
#96. To: Ferret Mike (#91)
I can ignore with a simple scroll by, I don't need the bozo function
#97. To: christine (#89)
#98. To: Peppa (#92)
(Edited)
Perhaps a software change where access to read is permitted only by the forum owner.
#99. To: RickyJ, robin (#87)
I don't think that would help this forum at all. This forum needs contributors and you contribute a lot.
#100. To: christine, RickyJ (#99)
#101. To: Pinguinite (#94)
#102. To: ... (#98)
A simpler solution is to say that if you don't trust the webmaster, don't pour out your guts in a PM. Use regular email for that.
#103. To: Pinguinite (#94)
Is that why you started that thread? Have you been campaigning for this change?
#104. To: Jethro Tull (#95)
"That's my opinion. If you disagree, MYOB."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#105. To: Peppa (#102)
I don't, but, the fact remains something people should be aware of.
#106. To: Jethro Tull, christine (#95)
(Edited)
#107. To: ... (#105)
That is why the notice was put on the page. To make people aware of it.
#108. To: Ferret Mike (#104)
#109. To: christine, Pingunite (#0)
#110. To: Peppa (#92)
You admitted it neil.
Like i said, it's between you and Christine.
Perhaps a software change where access to read is permitted only by the forum owner.
#111. To: Starwind (#109)
Long time, no post :)
#112. To: Jethro Tull (#108)
"Please quit again."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#113. To: Pinguinite (#110)
You, Peppa are a fraud. As far as I am concerned, you do not belong here. But I might be inclined to change my mind if you could make up some plausible explanation for making this accusation on this thread. How good are you at that sort of thing?
#114. To: Ferret Mike (#112)
#115. To: Pinguinite (#110)
You, Peppa are a fraud. As far as I am concerned, you do not belong here.
#116. To: ... (#93)
I think the real solution is to take the bozo count off the set up page. Then you wouldn't know how many people had you on bozo.
#117. To: Critter (#97)
Make it 3 so no one else can bozo me. :)
#118. To: Jethro Tull (#114)
"Pipe down, lefty. Your tree hugging act has worn thin."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#119. To: Pinguinite (#116)
but yes, it seems that serious people would never really care or need to know.
#120. To: ... (#117)
We could have three slots on the bozo that keep the posts from appearing.
#121. To: ... (#117)
So no one else
can bozo me
#122. To: Critter (#119)
(Edited)
I'm not a serious person, so I wanna know not only how many, but who they are, so I can make fun of them on every thread and they can't see it.
#123. To: Ferret Mike (#118)
I'm not going anywhere. But thanks for sharing anyway.
#124. To: Starwind (#109)
I'll re-iterate my long held personal belief that the "acid" that eats away at this forum, as it has eaten away at other forums, is the incivility: the personal attacks, the vulgarities, etc.
#125. To: FOH (#120)
(Edited)
Or an Obamaphile feature that could fill up the forum with endless rants about a racist Marxist baby slaughtering gun grabbing elitist Establishment member ??
#126. To: Starwind (#109)
 | Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise. |
#127. To: Jethro Tull (#123)
I was at 9 and now am at 11 filters I occupy. This is incredible, I should win going away...only 14 minutes left.
#128. To: ... (#125)
Nah, a McPain booster would say, My friends, there are going to be more bozos, many more bozos, and you may be bozoed for 50 years, maybe 100 years...
Tagline space for rent.
#129. To: Jethro Tull (#123)
Now that's so cool. Nice of you to write up a history on me. But the thing most inherently problematic with your spin is how self serving it is. Suffice it to say nothing you say here bothers me. But you are always welcome to keep trying to do so. I always have plenty of pop corn on hand for such spectacles.
"Maybe not now, but you will. That's your history. I hear Prozac helps."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#130. To: FOH (#127)
I think it's your predictable, and very stock hate rants. People can get that by just turning on Ed Levin. When they come here they are looking for substance. But then, those people are all commie, Marxist, baby killers. Right?
I was at 9 and now am at 11 filters I occupy.
.
#131. To: ... (#125)
Or how about a McCain booster that fills up every post with silly, childish, goober exciting, vapid, hot button, Limbaugh hate speech like "Marxist", "Gun Grabber", "elitist", or "Baby Slaughterer"? Who in this forum, besides probably Mud Bot and for sure Hagee, is destroying 4um with that kind of crap? Please point it out to me...the only cabaloids I see mentally masturbating all over 4um are you Lefty Progressive Socialist Commie White Guilt Watermelon MultiCulti Political Correctors.
Or an Obamaphile feature that could fill up the forum with endless rants about a racist Marxist baby slaughtering gun grabbing elitist Establishment member ??
#132. To: ... (#98)
The ONLY way something like that could work is if each member encrypted their messages with existing pgp programming with the public keys of the recipients, and PM'd the content that way. That encryption technology has been around for a long time and can be added seamlessly to most common email packages. That would lock me out beyond my ability to break. Of course if you're gonna do that, it's a lot easier just to email instead of pmail the encryption. In fact that solution is one of the suggestions made on the pmail page for people like Peppa who don't trust me or at least pretend not to. That option has been suggested there from the very beginning.
It would require some kind of encryption key, and even then it might not be possible.
#133. To: Ferret Mike (#129)
I'm getting so old, I need spectacles to see my popcorn.
pop corn on hand for such spectacles.
Tagline space for rent.
#134. To: ... (#130)
And all they get anymore are you goofy collectivists outing yourselves and destroying 4um...
When they come here they are looking for substance.
#135. To: Jethro Tull (#103)
If you really mean that, I understand. And I'll leave it at that.
I'll tell you this here and now; if it doesn't change, like robin, I'm gone.
#136. To: FOH (#127)
Hang in FOH. They've run out of Red Books.
I was at 9 and now am at 11 filters I occupy.
#137. To: Elliott Jackalope (#126)
I do sometimes boil over and pour out a lot of profane invective when I'm especially angry about something.
IIRC, I've been known to boil over myself a time or two. I'll do my best to keep the profanity in check from now on. No promises, mind you. But, I'll try.
No promises needed, at least not to me, and I find that the more I try to bridle my keyboard, the easier that becomes.
(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)
#138. To: Pinguinite (#135)
And I'll leave it at that. Why don't you Che Ophiles go start your own forum and have a World Utopian good time...a gun free zone ! "FREE" healthcare, soak the rich ($100,000+/yr), etc.
If you really mean that, I understand.
#139. To: Pinguinite (#132)
I think the real solution, and the simple solution, it to put the policy at the top of the PM page in big red blinking letters. I would also add the suggestion that people could forward an email address to an anonymous hotmail account if they wanted to talk in private.
.
#140. To: Pinguinite (#135)
Name the forum, and that's my history. Yes, I mean it.
#141. To: Jethro Tull (#136)
Red books or Red Shields ?? Or both...That Soros plays both sides like this.
#142. To: Critter (#133)
I know the feeling. Some food is just too ugly to eat with glasses on too, which can really compound the situation. ;-)
"I'm getting so old, I need spectacles to see my popcorn."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#143. To: FOH (#134) (Edited)
And here is the reason why half the participating 4um has you on Bozo. Now be a good tool and call them all commie Marxists. Maybe if you are just hateful enough, and just vapid enough and maybe if you make a big enough ass out of yourself, then they will start liking you and listen to you. Is that your plan? Seems to be. Everyone except you is a commie, a Marxist or a collectivist. Got it. And do you know how people react to you? Yawn ... another bitter, inarticulate ex-freeper who uses insults in an attempt to shut down discussion he can't refute. All in all, yur a shitty advocate. No humor. No personality. No rational argument. Just knuckle dragging insults - and an apparent confusion as to why have the world puts you on bozo. Shall I explain why they do that?
And all they get anymore are you goofy collectivists outing yourselves and destroying 4um...
.
#144. To: robin (#111)
Thank you, robin :) Likewise.
Good to see you!
(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)
#145. To: Starwind (#109)
Hi Star, Yes, long time. I do hope you are well. I thank you for your comments. Neil
#146. To: Ferret Mike (#129)
Did you pass your pop corn consumption by the ELF collective, to ensure that it's earth friendly?
But you are always welcome to keep trying to do so. I always have plenty of pop corn on hand for such spectacles.
#147. To: Jethro Tull (#136)
I would imagine if you wanted to subscribe to Red Book Magazine they will always have a copy to send you. Though frankly, you strike me as more a Cosmopolitan reader sort of guy.
"They've run out of Red Books."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#148. To: Jethro Tull, Ferret Mike (#146)
There was a disclaimer on the package: No worms were harmed in the creation of this 100% organic popping corn product...
Did you pass your pop corn consumption by the ELF collective, to ensure that it's earth friendly?
Tagline space for rent.
#149. To: ... (#143)
Now be a good tool and call them all commie Marxists. Maybe if you are just hateful enough, and just vapid enough and maybe if you make a big enough ass out of yourself, then they will start liking you and listen to you. (Yur a shitty advocate.) Let's get something clear, again. I could give 2 freaking rips what ANY of you Liberal/Commie-Fascist/Progressive/OWMs think ! If I'm not on your bozo, I'm not trying hard enough !! I will mock you little deviants endlessly and remind you what anti-American mutants you are...every turn. The best part of ALL of this is that the lines are clearly marked. You know who you are and the rest of us all know what you are...
And here is the reason why half the participating 4um has you on Bozo.
#150. To: Ferret Mike (#147)
Actually with you on the wacky left, when I say red book, it's about Mao, not Cosmo.
#151. To: Starwind (#144)
Who thought that we'd be here in May 2008 looking at these 3 candidates? And still stuck in Iraq? - not me. Well maybe Iraq doesn't surprise me.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#152. To: Jethro Tull (#146)
I didn't know those folks were a collective. Actually, they are more a cellular movement that ruins everything they touch. A collective is more a type of business, and they are certainly not that. And this is something I have always been very happy to point out to anyone interested in hearing, especially them. ;-D
"Did you pass your pop corn consumption by the ELF collective, to ensure that it's earth friendly?"
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#153. To: Peppa (#113)
No, your problem is something else entirely. I guess this is an appropriate time to stop asking why you posted this accusation on this thread as you're obviously refusing to do so, and start asking instead why you are refusing to do so. You could say "Well, I don't have any proof but I thought you were because...." and then fill in the blank. But you can't do that. The answer is you did it to harm the forum. I cannot think of a more plausible reason. You are here to hurt the forum. You are a fraud.
So, you know... it's not my problem.
#154. To: FOH (#149) (Edited)
OOoooooh. Hopping mad and jumping up and down. Do you know why half the forum has you on bozo? It's because they don't give a shit for your bitter freeper crap. And do you know why Jim banned you? It's because the freepers don't give a shit for your bitter, ignorant crap either. Yawn. Why don't you call me when you grow enough of a brain to do something besides fling feces. This idiotic name calling, which is all you are capable of, is the reason you guys are now known as the 27%.
I could give 2 freaking rips what ANY of you Liberal/Commie-Fascist/Progressive/OWMs think !
.
#155. To: Critter (#148)
Ok,,,,,but where do ELF freaks dispose of the dung associated with a good meal like popped maize? I'm guessing in each others pockets.
No worms were harmed in the creation of this 100% organic popping corn product...
#156. To: Critter (#119)
Maybe when you sign up you should indicate whether you're serious or not, and then the serious members won't see the number!
I'm not a serious person, so I wanna know not only how many,
#157. To: ... (#154)
Again, dotty, the ones that have me on bozo are the same people that should have me on bozo. I won a bunch of you peckerwoods over for Ron Paul's campaign and it was akin to inviting your enemy in for some personal destruction. GO EFF YOURSELF small time !!
Do you know why half the forum has you on bozo?
#158. To: Pinguinite (#153)
Peppa's question NEVER would have arisen if it weren't for your space cadet gun comment. That hurt the forum, and you refuse to acknowledge it.
The answer is you did it to harm the forum. I cannot think of a more plausible reason. You are here to hurt the forum. You are a fraud.
#159. To: ... (#124)
People who do that ought to be banned. That's the proper solution for those people and I believe is properly exercised here.
It's an alternate tactic for those who can't defend their position. They use the personal attacks to punish those who post well thought out opinions that they disagree with - but can't refute. Yukon, ALS and most freeper types resort to this.
#160. To: Jethro Tull (#150)
Not being a WalMart or Cosco shopper, and always willing to blast the Chinese for Tibet and their overall repressiveness and arrogance of power, I am not someone they would gladly give a token of the 'Great Leap Forward' cultural revolution to. I mean, the Revolutionary Communist Party doesn't even try to give me copies of the Revolutionary Worker paper anymore. So if the home grown Maoists don't like me, I'm sure the Chinese ones don't either. ;-D
"Actually with you on the wacky left, when I say red book, it's about Mao, not Cosmo."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#161. To: FOH (#157) (Edited)
My, you can talk like a Republican. Why don't you call me when you grow up and learn how to make a rational argument? Now go play. The adults are talking here - and you sound like a hostile, bitter, freeper moron.
GO EFF YOURSELF small time !!
.
#162. To: Pinguinite (#159)
Not always.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#163. To: Pinguinite (#159)
A perfect example of this is FOH with his silly name calling (see above). But I disagree that he should be banned. Actually, I think the type of hostile ignorance he bleeds all over the forum is one of the reasons the GOP is now in the toilet. People don't think of Bush when they think of the GOP. That's too abstract for them. They think of moronic, childish bullies like FOH, i.e., their neighbor or co-worker.
People who do that ought to be banned. That's the proper solution for those people and I believe is properly exercised here.
.
#164. To: Ferret Mike (#152)
Actually ELF consists of a few pocked marked, suburban yuppies playing weekend radical. Trust me, if a real man had damage done to their property by one of these asshats, the last thing wooden he'd remember is a cocobolo night stick across his ripe melon.
Actually, they are more a cellular movement that ruins everything they touch.
#165. To: FOH (#157)
So is it you opinion that if you are just stupid enough, and just hostile enough, and just bitter enough and just insulting enough, then you can intimidate us into silence? I'd be curious for an honest answer. You certainly don't seem capable of making an adult argument to support your view point. So I am wondering what you are doing here?
.
#166. To: Jethro Tull (#164)
If I saw one in action first, you'd have to take a number. My grudge against them is considerably more personal in nature then yours'. ;-)
"Actually ELF consists of a few pocked marked, suburban yuppies playing weekend radical. Trust me, if a real man had damage done to their property by one of these asshats, the last thing wooden he'd remember is a cocobolo night stick across his ripe melon."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#167. To: Starwind, ALL (#109)
i've pretty much been a hands off moderator and have had the philosophy of letting members fight it out amongst themselves. i respect the fact that we're all adults here and i am not at all an authoritarian. further, i've never liked other forum's owners and moderators deciding what is civil and what is not and then treating their members like they're naughty children. but, you certainly make a valid point. i am hoping that others will see this and exercise self control and restraint with the personal attacks so that i won't have to change my way of being. i will, however, get tough if i have to. ;) thank you for your comments. i appreciate them and it's very nice to see you again.
b) I'll re-iterate my long held personal belief that the "acid" that eats away at this forum, as it has eaten away at other forums, is the incivility: the personal attacks, the vulgarities, etc. If someone can't make their point without swearing and attacking someone else personally, they really don't have a point worth discussing - they just have a vendetta. But that kind of constant barrage of incivility (from all sides, from any side) eats away at a forum. It drives away lurkers, it spams threads, and it smothers discussion. If you're in a mood to try something new, try banning (even temporarily after a warning or three), whomever in your opinion persists in vulgar personal attacks and who doesn't debate but just rants. Remove the uncivil, let the dust settle, see what that looks like.
#168. To: christine (#167)
ooooh, spank me baby!
i will, however, get tough if i have to. ;)
Tagline space for rent.
#169. To: Peppa (#107)
Yep. You weren't in on the last fiasco. Most of the original people here simply don't consider PMs to be secure as a matter of course. A lot of people had got burned by this at an old site. And as was said before, the accusation that someone was peeking at PMs was one of the reasons for the "No Security Promised Here" policy. If you can't defend against the charge that you are peeking, and you can't, then you just don't promise security - and then you don't have to defend against the charge. The original people here did not assume privacy in the PMs, but maybe the new people do. So maybe it would be a good idea to make the policy a little more plain. Maybe something like a check box on the sign up saying "I read the PM policy and I know there is no promise of security" or something like that.
That is why the notice was put on the page. To make people aware of it.
.
#170. To: Critter (#168)
Does it have to be Christine? I'm sort of into that stuff you know.
ooooh, spank me baby!
It's not terrorism when the Israelis do it.
#171. To: Jethro Tull (#158)
Ohhhhh..... really. I guess Peppa can't say this herself so she's hired a lawyer. So.... it seems that the perfectly logical basis for my accuser's claim that I read other's Pmail is because we disagree on what the 2nd Amendment means. ... and that it was perfectly reasonable to bring that up on this thread because it delves quite deeply into the 2nd Amendment. Peppa, are you signing your name to that?
Peppa's question NEVER would have arisen if it weren't for your space cadet gun comment. That hurt the forum, and you refuse to acknowledge it.
#172. To: Peppa (#171)
How silly of me not to ping you!
#173. To: Critter (#168)
You know, we are all gluttons for whips and chains to a degee, or we would not be in these virtual joints. You'd have to lock many of us for a week in a cell with a drag dressed Rudy to really get many of us to squeal like a pig. If anything, being in forums so long is the worst enemy to the endeavour of sustaining participation in a virtual community. Doing real activism in one's community is always much more fun and engaging, and anyone posting online should always strive to never ever forget that.
"ooooh, spank me baby!"
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#174. To: christine (#167)
Their "moderation" is really just an ego trip. The bias and manipulation is palpable. So, agreed, there are no examples I can think of to commend. It may not be as tough as you imagine, and you'll get 80% of the benefit with banning the worst 20%. I believe Pingunite has obscenity filters that could be enabled - that automates a lot of the trivia mommyadmin. Leaving you free to make a judgement call (as you've done in the past) to identify who is here to discuss (or entertain) versus who is looking to start flame wars. Thank you. Condolences on the food fight :)
further, i've never liked other forum's owners and moderators deciding what is civil and what is not and then treating their members like they're naughty children.
i will, however, get tough if i have to.
i appreciate them and it's very nice to see you again.
(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)
#175. To: ... (#163)
That's why I bozo'd him. He does NOT constructively contribute to the forum. In his case I don't think banning is out of order. That's not my call, it's just my opinion. And I'm not even asking he be banned as to merely ask places a burden on the site owner. I'm satisfied banning him from my world via bozo.
A perfect example of this is FOH with his silly name calling (see above).
#176. To: Critter (#168)
Now THAT's funny!
ooooh, spank me baby!
#177. To: Pinguinite, christine, Jethro Tull (#175)
You offered to buy out Goldi-Witch over Ron Paul (before the body snatchers), why don't you tell Christine what it will cost US to buy your sorry ass out -and replace you- there Mr. Unaccountable? Christine, plz copy this to sh#t4brains down in Ecuador...he has me on filter.
That's why I bozo'd him. He does NOT constructively contribute to the forum. In his case I don't think banning is out of order. That's not my call, it's just my opinion. And I'm not even asking he be banned as to merely ask places a burden on the site owner. I'm satisfied banning him from my world via bozo.
#178. To: FOH (#177) (Edited)
He has you on bozo dunce. He can't see you silly shit. Neil, you can't see this, but FOH is wondering where Trace21231 is tonight. Why don't you call him a Marxist? That ought to fix him. (Or at least it will give us something to chortle over.)
.
#179. To: ... (#169)
I'm not buying that innocent "you weren't there" stuff for Peppa. Peppa leveled a very serious accusation. If she had an ounce of circumstantial evidence, she could float it and I/we could deal with it. But there's nothing NOTHING she's placed on the table to back up the accusation. Further she claimed lots of people knew: Were are these crowds, Peppa? How come they are not coming to your defense? They don't exist, do they? DO THEY?? This also was a lie, wasn't it? An outright LIE. If they are here they obviously don't love you very much. And, for the fourteenth time, why the accusation on THIS thread? But you ain't talkin.
You weren't in on the last fiasco.
Too many know.
#180. To: ... (#178)
Neil, you can't see this, but FOH is wondering where Trace21231 is tonight. Why don't you call him a Marxist? That ought to fix him. (Or at least it will give us something to chortle over.) I pinged the 4um webmaster and two grown ups, I did not ping the kiddie table...
He has you on bozo dunce. He can't see you silly shit.
#181. To: Pinguinite (#179)
It's drivin ya nuts, ain't it Neil ? You should probably ban her, right Neil ??
Peppa leveled a very serious accusation. If she had an ounce of circumstantial evidence, she could float it and I/we could deal with it. But there's nothing NOTHING she's placed on the table to back up the accusation.
#182. To: Pinguinite (#179)
You're right. I see a serious charge but nothing to back it up. And no real circumstantial evidence for it either. As far as I know, there has never been a security breach here. In fact, there is a long history of taking good care of people's info. And that can't be said of most other places.
.
#183. To: FOH (#181)
No, I think it's driving you nuts. I mean, you're the one that's ranting at the empty air.
It's drivin ya nuts, ain't it Neil ?
.
#184. To: Pinguinite (#175)
I've enjoyed seeing JT engaged enough to playing his role advocating against Obama I've actually enjoyed that. I do have a problem with trying to use the bozo as leverage in spin doctoring an issue however. And he blew it ethically on the 2nd Amendment hypothetical in a big way. And as nasty as I can certainly be in my criticism, none of it is personal as on the balance of things I have gotten good stuff over the years by reading Jethro. That is my overall perspective here. As for FOH, I hear and appreciate his enthusiasm for his point of view. He is also a generally nice guy who is entertaining to watch when he goes off the deep end politically. I would never bozo him. The internal judgment of what to read and what to ignore is far more powerful a tool then any software function to kill file something. The brain and will is mightier then the computer or software. There is no good reason in any way to be doing an introspective naval watch session on this way to bookmark another into oblivion. This entire line of discussion is pointless to the extreme. To bozo or not to bozo, to worry about it to this extreme is actually worse then anything involved in doing or not doing it.
"That's why I bozo'd him. He does NOT constructively contribute to the forum. In his case I don't think banning is out of order. That's not my call, it's just my opinion. And I'm not even asking he be banned as to merely ask places a burden on the site owner. I'm satisfied banning him from my world via bozo."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#185. To: FOH (#180) (Edited)
And I responded. And I pointed out that you were again acting like a silly child. Here is a suggestion: Turn off the computer. Sit quietly for a while and try to come up with something besides your idiotic name calling. That's how adults behave. And if you acted like an adult, people might then stop taunting you.
I pinged the 4um webmaster and two grown ups,
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#186. To: Ferret Mike (#184)
I find him to be pretty much your stock freeper. Read the thread above, he's been at it for hours and hasn't come up with anything that a pouting nine year old couldn't better. He is fun to poke however. I must admit that.
As for FOH, I hear and appreciate his enthusiasm for his point of view. He is also a generally nice guy who is entertaining to watch when he goes off the deep end politically.
.
#187. To: ... (#183)
May I suggest you bozo him and be done with it? I mean, you're treading down the same path I and probably 8 others have already.
#188. To: ... (#186)
It could be worse, we could have byeltsin or TLBSHOW in here doing their particular toxic dog and pony shows. He is a FReeperish kind of guy, but this place has been known to make them start doing the independent thinking routine. Don't give up on him yet, he may surprise you.
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#189. To: Pinguinite (#187)
I might. I think you made the mistake of taking him seriously. But if you read the thread above you'll see he isn't capable of anything beyond "Fuck you commie!!". I have people over now and they are getting a kick out of him. They're from the University and they're used to people operating on a much more rational level. They're not net people. They're sort of horrified and sort of fascinated watching a hostile idiot like this in action. A friend of mine just got her Phd in Bio Chem. We are having a party.
May I suggest you bozo him and be done with it? I mean, you're treading down the same path I and probably 8 others have already.
.
#190. To: Ferret Mike (#188)
How? By saying "Fuck You Marxist" in French? My friend who just got her Phd is a Pagan and she says hi. She operates out of Boulder Colorado.
He is a FReeperish kind of guy, but this place has been known to make them start doing the independent thinking routine. Don't give up on him yet, he may surprise you.
.
#191. To: Original_Intent (#2)
Exactly, he's the candidate of the Trilateral Commission. Zbig and Lee Hamilton (and their minions) all endorse him. It's long past time that the American people realized that "they" are not going to allow you to have a candidate that represents you.
I've stayed out of the frays because it is a foregone conclusion, to me, that Obummer is just as much under control as Hitlery and McInsane.
#192. To: Ferret Mike (#184)
I'm happy to hear his opinion, even if it's that he disagrees with me. But if that's all he has to say, which it is, then I don't need to hear it 37 times a day. That's my only problem with him.
As for FOH, I hear and appreciate his enthusiasm for his point of view.
#193. To: ... (#185)
Yes, I'd say you're DEFINITELY going down the same path I went down!
Here is a suggestion: Turn off the computer. Sit quietly for a while and try to come up with something besides your idiotic name calling. That's how adults behave.
#194. To: christine (#0)
Christine: Whichever way you want to change your forum is acceptable to me, as long as it doesn't mean that I'm tomorrow's history. Before making any changes, though, just remember that politics on whatever level is a hotly debated subject. It's normal for fighting and distrust to develop during election years. I don't post here much, but when I do I do my best to remain civil and impersonal. Quite frankly, I believe this is one of the better forums on the web today. RO
#195. To: ... (#189)
I make that mistake with everyone when I first meet them. Yes, I know. Is it kinda like watching a train wreck that never stops wrecking?? Well a hearty congrats to your friend! Have a good time but stay safe.
I might. I think you made the mistake of taking him seriously.
But if you read the thread above you'll see he isn't capable of anything beyond "Fuck you commie!!".
They're sort of horrified and sort of fascinated watching a hostile idiot like this in action.
A friend of mine just got her Phd in Bio Chem. We are having a party.
#196. To: Pinguinite (#193)
I wasn't serious when I said that and I'm not really trying to reform the guy. I know he isn't capable of adult behavior. I'm just trying to make him hop around and entertain people.
Yes, I'd say you're DEFINITELY going down the same path I went down!
.
#197. To: Pinguinite (#195)
Is it kinda like watching a train wreck that never stops wrecking?? No, it's a total guilty pleasure thing. Several people here have relatives like this guy. And they can't slap the relatives around no matter how much they deserve it. So they sort of enjoy watching FOH get tweaked. Actually, they've sort of lost interest now and they are out on the deck.
They're sort of horrified and sort of fascinated watching a hostile idiot like this in action.
.
#198. To: christine, Pinguinite (#0)
Which is exactly why Obama is there. F4um is a microcosm of the larger body politic...with a more colorful cast. : ) Is it possible to code far fewer slots into the bozo list? If those with a penchant for using it knew they only had three bozos to bozo, they might be less apt to see it as their first option. I'm glad you guys are here. This country is going into the crapper quickly and this is one of the last of five or ten truly free speech bastions left on the net. Thanks.
The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum.
"Abe Foxman, my good friend and partner." - John NegroponteRead New History
#199. To: JiminyC (#198)
...or there 2nd to last option. The last option is, of course, to leave.
If those with a penchant for using it knew they only had three bozos to bozo, they might be less apt to see it as their first option.
#200. To: FOH (#177) (Edited)
After taking a closer look at Barr I can't support him. He paid for his first wife's abortion. I am going to take a closer look at Baldwin now. I might be able to look past his love of the Confederate Battle flag if that is all I disagree with him about. I did vote for Peroutka in 2004 with him as VP. But my vote was more for Peroutka than him.
God is always good!
#201. To: Pinguinite, christine, all (#10)
I agree that I would not have supposed that the R&D election cycle would bring this kind of discord here. But then again, maybe it's doing a service by bringing more that we really are out. If so, that may be uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or unhealthy forum-wise. It's not the point of 4um to mold any of us into something we aren't. Certainly that's not going to happen except for those individuals that allow themselves to change. Please take heart that that's how it should be. Agree completely, Neil. The members wanted the bozo filter, and then you added the ignore thread feature here (as an added bonus) so if people don't want to post or participate here; fine. There are no fundraisers or fees to join, and everyone is here because they wish to be here. Don't change a thing.
Disagreement is one of the main points of a forum. Sure it may mean some people go, but new people come. That's normal. That's healthy.
#202. To: Pinguinite (#199)
Then who would argue with them? ; )
The last option is, of course, to leave.
"Abe Foxman, my good friend and partner." - John NegroponteRead New History
#203. To: ... (#190)
I say hi back. My sister Linda had a house in Boulder before she died of cancer in 2004, nice little town Boulder I found in my time there. I so tune out the repetitiveness. I do notice if he says something new, but he'll either figure out he's not effective here being repetitive, or won't. I just don't waste time worrying about it. I am perfectly capable of rattling cages when I want to in forums, but I spend more time studying what is effective in the art of posting, or not; and why this is so. It would be nice to have some of the same enthusiasm for doing this I did when I started in 1995, but it isn't reasonable to expect that to remain the same. People change, and the times and places the discussions change all the time too. I love to argue some things politically, but I have problems with the fact many battles I have done more then once and am bored with a clumsy and badly done rebuttal. I am doing more and more personal journal writing, and keeping much of it to my self. I like writing, and that is just the phase I am in right now. I plan ultimately to do more blogging then posting for awhile, as I have done political forum posting so long I need the change. But I'll always be in places like this too. Even if I am doing more lurking then I used to do.
"My friend who just got her Phd is a Pagan and she says hi. She operates out of Boulder Colorado."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#204. To: ... (#93)
That is an absolutely outstanding suggestion.
I think the real solution is to take the bozo count off the set up page. Then you wouldn't know how many people had you on bozo.
Elect anyone but Obama, Clinton, or McCain.
#205. To: lodwick, Pinguinite, christine (#201)
If there is a problem, it is not with the software, the maintainer of the software, or the bozo filter.
Don't change a thing.
#206. To: ... (#93)
And what of the gaps in the thread the subject of the
bozo would see? I think the real solution is to take the bozo count off the set
up page. Then you wouldn't know how many people had you on bozo
#207. To: christine, critter (#0)
I come here to read about health/financial/gardening material as a general rule, and couldn't care less about Obama/McCain/Clinton (although I am STILL following Paul's "campaign", just to see how many people vote against McCain). All I really want to know is...where do I report to for that spanking that 'critter' mentioned? :-)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#208. To: christine, all (#0)
You have disruptors here. The bozo use is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. It allows freedom of association. I use the filter to make the latest comment pages useable for me. Like for example, in the morning, Kamala posts lots and lots of informative threads. They aren't breaking news or necessarily news I want to read right then, so I filter them out. I ban from my view the proven stupid and spammers and disruptors and those who get their panties in a knot over Obama. I even banned cynicom once or twice because he made me want to pull my hair out. Mudboy Slim and VRWC are the same disruptors here that they were in the other forums. FOH is a disruptor as well. And there are operatives. They're more difficult to weed out. People can filter them or not. People should know that Private Mails are not secure. It sure was distressing to see Neil (Webmaster) jump in on that one thread accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers. And he was uncharacteristically rude. Who knows if it's Neil or not or where he's really coming from? So yeah, you have problems here. Banning the obvious trolls is entirely appropriate. What seems to be happening is a hijacking of the forum by Obamaphiles and operatives using the filter to limit their discussion group. But what harm does that do unless there's lots of 'em? No real harm...I mean how many times can you post rah-rah Obama? If the others like Jethro Tull and peppa would use some restraint from baiting them and keeping those threads alive, some of the crap would die down. People here are intelligent enough to see who's who and what their agenda is. I suggest to do nothing but the bare minimum. The trolls are showing themselves and those paying attention can adjust accordingly.
I don't even recognize the place anymore.
#209. To: Jethro Tull (#206)
And what of the gaps in the thread the subject of the bozo would see? You don't see gaps if someone has you on bozo. Only if you have someone else on bozo. The whole problem is people looking at their bozo count and freaking out. If they can't see how many people have them on bozo, no problem.
I think the real solution is to take the bozo count off the set up page. Then you wouldn't know how many people had you on bozo
.
#210. To: christine (#0)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#211. To: christine (#0)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#212. To: Peppa (#48)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#213. To: ghostdogtxn (#212)
ghost... Odd you of all people should use the term "paranoia".
Your paranoia is, as usual, getting the better of you.
#214. To: ... (#209)
So we can then assume unanswered posts directed at someone who has another on bozo is simply an act of rudeness? If people aren't satisfied w/more than a handful of bozo's, coupled w/ a civility-stalking requirement, then satisfaction here isn't possible. IMVHO.
The whole problem is people looking at their bozo count and freaking out. If they can't see how many people have them on bozo, no problem.
#215. To: Pinguinite (#72)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#216. To: JiminyC (#198)
yes, it is. Is it possible to code far fewer slots into the bozo list? yes, it is possible and i think this is the best solution/compromise.
F4um is a microcosm of the larger body politic
#217. To: ghostdogtxn (#215)
* Any person knowing your login ID and password (including site administrators if you have requested your password be changed); * Any person using a computer on which you have logged onto this forum and for which you have either not closed the web browser OR you have checked the option to have the computer remember your ID and PW information (on the setup screen); * Software engineers/programmers having certain privileged access to the computer hosting this web forum. * Software engineers/programmers having "wire tap" access to the data as it is transmitted between your computer and web server. As a modest measure of privacy, mail data stored on site is encoded in a simple fashion to make inadvertent reading of content impossible in the rare event software maintenance needs to be performed on the mail system. However, this encoding does NOT prevent a software programmer with privileged access from decoding your content maliciously. If you are concerned about the sensitive nature of content you wish to send, you are encouraged to either NOT utilize this mail system, utilize a third party encryption tool for your content, or use this system only to make arrangements to share privileged information some other way. This part is interesting... ""However, this encoding does NOT prevent a software programmer with privileged access from decoding your content "maliciously".
Important Privacy Information: This mail system accepts, stores and displays content only to persons having password access to the screen name accounts which contain mail. Mail content is generally private and is not accessable to third parties including site administrators with the following exceptions:
#218. To: ghostdogtxn (#210)
What would you know of "liberal" forums? And why the " "s around the word liberal?
All of the "liberal" forums are torn in two, with trolling and hatred and vitriol;
#219. To: Jethro Tull (#88)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#220. To: christine (#216)
I think keeping people's bozo count secret would be better. The real problem here seems to be people freaking out because a lot of people have them on bozo. If you took the count off the filter page, they would never know if someone had them on bozo. They could just assume that nobody did. People could then avoid harassment and insults by using the bozo and those on the receiving end would be none the wiser.
.
#221. To: ghostdogtxn (#219)
Your advocation for the status quo is duly noted and not surprising.
#222. To: Critter (#121)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#223. To: ..., robin (#220)
robin has 14? on bozo. In your scheme, her unanswered exchanges w/posters would be viewed by them as what?
People could then avoid harassment and insults by using the bozo and those on the receiving end would be none the wiser.
#224. To: Starwind, Neil McIver, Peppa, christine, all (#109)
I agree with this completely. I have also known Neil for a long time, almost from the inception of Liberty Post. While I have never had the pleasure of meeting him in person I do believe Neil to be honest and trustworthy and I would not worry for one minute about him reading my pm's (almost all of which I wouldn't even care to post on the board). And Neil CAN'T prove a negative but then neither can anyone else. For whatever it's worth I think Neil is a good man and one I am proud to call my friend.
c) I don't believe for one second that Neil McIver has ever has read PM's, aside from any sent to him or any involved in software/database problems. Regardless, should he need to, Neil McIver is one of the few people I would trust to read my PM's. If I had a forum I wouldn't hesitate to give Neil the keys. The guy is as honest, trustworthy, and transparent as you'll ever find.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#225. To: ... (#186)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#226. To: ... (#189)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#227. To: ReallyOrnery (#194)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#228. To: lodwick, christine (#201)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#229. To: Cynicom (#213)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#230. To: Pinguinite (#10)
I kind of tend to agree with that. I was surprised at the bitterness some like to have to those they disagree with on this issue. The way I view it is that we shouldn't even think so much of the whole system of selecting leaders to let us get upset at each other over it. When I first realized that some traditionally conservative people were going for Obama because they saw hope in him I told them I was happy that they were happy about it. Its nice to have hope on a day-to-day basis. Then later I concluded since Obama changed his web site and promised to withdraw a lot of troops in 16 months I decided that at least since he was differentiating himself from the other 2, then at least for the sake of telling the rest of the world that we are not war-mongers, then maybe it would be a good idea to vote for Obama just for that 1 reason. Its not like our election system has a track record of success, so why get so upset over it? How can we expect to always agree on every detail? as if a group of people on this 4um who differ from you are really so significant. they're not significant, no reason to get upset. you want the forum to grow? Better accept diversity. someone calls you a communist or a racist, be thick-skinned over it. and remember that other person's only doing it because he/she has nothing better to do. the way to make the forum grow is to put links up to it on other forums, especially at newspaper comment sections. if 2 or 3 people would diligently do that regularly, the forum would grow.
Disagreement is one of the main points of a forum
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#231. To: Cynicom (#217)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#232. To: Jethro Tull (#218)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#233. To: Jethro Tull (#221)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#234. To: ghostdogtxn (#231)
to set the record straight, i am unable to read anyone else's PMs. the only way i could do that is if an account owner gave me his/her password.
#235. To: ghostdogtxn (#232)
If liberalism is an amalgamation of socialism and communism, and you profess to be a liberal, then your participation at DU, KOS and HuffPo makes complete sense. Your attempt to blend that dogma into what is ostensibly a freedon4um is bewildering, tho.
Socialism and communism have been amalgamated into "liberalism" and I think that's a shame. I'm a liberal, not a communist or a socialist
#236. To: angle, Neil McIver (#208)
Neil, this is the first I have heard of this (and of course I haven't read every thread that has been posted here). Is it true that you accused people who don't support Obama--which most certainly includes me but then I don't support ANY statist whore as anyone who knows me already knows--to be akin to murderers? I find that pretty hard to believe and if you said that I would like to hear your explanation. As I said in the only other post I have made to this thread I consider you a friend and that is why I find it hard to believe that you would even think such a thing, let alone post it. My own personal disclaimer: I see some people here who don't seem to like each other for one reason or another and it is distressing to me because I like all of them. For instance, I like Peppa, FOH and Neil. I think they are all good people. But because I like all of them doesn't mean they all have to like each other. I won't be like Rodney King and ask if we can't all just get along because I know that, human nature being what it is, that we probably all can't "just get along." But all of you who don't like the others so much, or to put another way, if your dislike is so intense, the bozo filter is a good option. You don't have to see what someone has said if you don't like them and it may make your time here more enjoyable.
People should know that Private Mails are not secure. It sure was distressing to see Neil (Webmaster) jump in on that one thread accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers. And he was uncharacteristically rude. Who knows if it's Neil or not or where he's really coming from?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#237. To: christine (#234)
I take you at your word, but as I have personally experienced Free Republic reading and monitoring mine, I always assume in forum mail as a less secure form of mail them that even in a POP account, or any other form of 'free' Internet mail service. I also would never type in some of what I have to say regarding politics in any computer that links to the net, and any box used off net never keeps it's drive in it when it is off and cold.
"to set the record straight, i am unable to read anyone else's PMs. the only way i could do that is if an account owner gave me his/her password."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#238. To: Jethro Tull (#235)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#239. To: ghostdogtxn (#238)
If liberalism is an amalgamation of socialism and/or communism, and you profess to be a liberal, then your participation at DU, KOS and HuffPo makes complete sense. Your attempt to blend that dogma into what is ostensibly a freedon4um is bewildering, tho.
My amended comment to your #238
#240. To: christine (#234)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#241. To: Jethro Tull (#88)
BTTT...MUD
"I think some modicum of respect needs to be enforced and a limit to the number of bozo's. People can rotate "offenders" on and off as needed, but the current system is being used as a tool."
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#242. To: Jethro Tull (#239)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#243. To: Ferret Mike (#237)
Yep...I also learned to be more careful after getting burnt at FR.
"I have personally experienced Free Republic reading and monitoring mine, I always assume in forum mail as a less secure form of mail..."
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#244. To: Mudboy Slim, Jethro Tull (#241)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#245. To: christine (#234)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#246. To: ghostdogtxn (#244)
Impossible. My bozo # dropped by two over night.
but more likely because you piss a lot of people off?
#247. To: angle, Minerva, ... (#208)
LOL...that's ridiculous, you Lefty twit!! I've been charming ever since I joined the 4um, despite the ankle-biting of RAT nitwits like Minerva and TripleDot. I'm here to help grow the 4um...MUD
"Mudboy Slim and VRWC are the same disruptors here that they were in the other forums."
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#248. To: Jethro Tull (#246)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#249. To: Mudboy Slim (#247)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#250. To: ghostdogtxn (#249)
Heh heh heh...words mean things, my friend...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#251. To: ... (#186)
Provocateur.
"He is fun to poke..."
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#252. To: christine (#0)
IMHO, the very fact that there is spirited debate indicates the forum truly IS a free speech forum. On the issue of the bozo filter, perhaps some people have had it with insults, and resort to the bozo filter rather than leaving the forum altogether. I don't see a problem. As a forum grows and attracts a wider membership, these sorts of things become common. If you restrict the topic of discussion, or censor those with viewpoint (A) over viewpoint (B), then you are following the footsteps of other forum owners, and you know where that leads...
What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#253. To: Jethro Tull, ..., christine, Pinguinite (#223)
It is not a scheme JT, it is an attempt to escape hateful, racist remarks that do not make my day better. I'm here because I enjoy being here. When I can no longer enjoy myself I'll be gone. As I said before, I never used bozo until now. It is very empowering to be able to put someone on the bozo list, like not answering the phone or the door. Sometimes I had someone on the list just for a day, because they were posting a lot of really mean-spirited posts that day. You want everyone to be forced listen to your hate and anger, well that's not my idea of freedom.
robin has 14? on bozo. In your scheme, her unanswered exchanges w/posters would be viewed by them as what?
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#254. To: robin (#253)
Just as an example, what has peppa or mirage said to you that is racist?
It is not a scheme JT, it is an attempt to escape hateful, racist remarks that do not make my day better.
#255. To: Jethro Tull, christine, Pinquinite, ... (#254)
You'll notice that in my reasons for putting someone on bozo, reasons I gave yesterday, they were not always for racism. Part of the existing bozo filter is to be able to block posters without naming them. My intent is not to hurt anyone's feelings but to spare my own. That said, in partial answer to your question, I find Peppa to be a very contentious and disrupting poster, bent on small-minded meanness or just trying to destroy this forum. Last night I found it easy to agree with Pinguinite that she is a fraud. I have no intention of naming every person on my bozo list to you and why I bozoed them. Do you report to Chertoff now? However, in some cases I told them so at the time and gave the reason why.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#256. To: ratcat (#191)
Exactly, he's the candidate of the Trilateral Commission. Zbig and Lee Hamilton (and their minions) all endorse him. It's long past time that the American people realized that "they" are not going to allow you to have a candidate that represents you. Exactly. People keep looking for the "Great White Hope" (Ron Paul) or the "Great Black Hope" (Obummer). We can see the smear and minimalization job that was done on Ron Paul and Oh'bummer is just another shill for the Banksters. I know people who have woken up get frustrated and want it all changed NOW. While I agree with the sentiment I am enough of realist to know that ain't going to happen. At this point we have two chores: 1. Enlighten and wake up those others who can be woken up. The reality is that some are beyond our current reach and people have got to get this as well. If someone will not, or cannot, look and confront do not waste time on them. Move on to the next person. There is no point in banging your head against a brick wall and trying to wake up people who are mostly too afraid to look or too under control of the PsyOps program. The worst candidates are people who listen to Schlock Radio, and believe it, and those who watch a lot of "Tee Bee". The heavy TV watchers are the worst followed closely by the Dildoeheads. The Dildoeheads are the most annoying because they are the ones who believe in Dorothy Limbaugh and the Ruby Slippers. They are so trapped in the phoney "two party" Dog and Pony Show that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They are convinced that "they're with it" because Rush has told them what they think. The problem of course is that they don't think and react emotionally just the way that Saint "Pills" has told them that the awful "Lib'ruls" do. The sick irony would be funny if it wasn't so serious. 2. Push at the local level and begin working from the bottom up. By getting our own local areas back under our control it builds our base and our power. This is a slower route and the people looking for "Magic" overnight fixes are too impatient with it - much to the detriment of us all.
I've stayed out of the frays because it is a foregone conclusion, to me, that Obummer is just as much under control as Hitlery and McInsane.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
#257. To: Ferret Mike, christine, ratcat, FOH, TwentyTwelve (#237) (Edited)
Exactly - and a wise policy. Some things I do and say in private off the net are never spoken of on the net. I always assume that there is no existing encryption system that cannot be broken, and that the NSA, the Israelis, and their ilk are capable of reading anything off of any machine that is connected to the net at any time (including dial-up). I have "noticed" anomalies from time to time that has caused me to conclude that such an assumption is correct. The net is a powerful tool for freedom but people have to also be aware that it IS being used for surveillance and for identifying those of us who are still willing to fight for liberty. I think the great numbers of such people is one of the things that worries the bad guys as I am sure that a lot of the surveillance underscores the fact that there are still a lot of people willing to fight.
I also would never type in some of what I have to say regarding politics in any computer that links to the net, and any box used off net never keeps it's drive in it when it is off and cold.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
#258. To: christine (#0)
Why bother with the Bozo list at all? Most of the time, if I don't like somebody's posts, I just ignore them and read on. If somebody gets really obnoxious (by spamming the site), then just ban that person and move on.
#259. To: christine (#234)
heh, someone took me off bozo, now I only have 2. I still wanna know who they are so I can make fun of them.
Tagline space for rent.
#260. To: robin (#255)
I have no intention of naming every person on my bozo list to you and why I bozoed them. Do you report to Chertoff now? Bozo me please.
That said, in partial answer to your question, I find Peppa to be a very contentious and disrupting poster, bent on small-minded meanness or just trying to destroy this forum. Last night I found it easy to agree with Pinguinite that she is a fraud.
#261. To: James Deffenbach (#236)
#44. To: RickyJ (#41) Of the 3, I prefer Obama take it. The USA is screwed no matter which of the 3 wins. Given that, it makes sense to prefer the one that is least likely to start WWIII and otherwise end the imperialism. I know its probable that Obama won't bring all the troops home, but Cain will increase imperialism and bombing. As a country, the USA has deeply injured the world and it's a national obligation to right that wrong as much as possible. For us to try to safeguard our 2nd Amendment rights at the expense of lives of innocents worldwide doesn't fly in my book. Again, since the USA is gonna die anyway no matter which of the 3 it is, the least we can do is die alone and let the rest of world be. I won't vote for Obama as it's much more beneficial such as it is to vote for Ron Paul or Bob Barr, but that's my position and preference. Pinguinite posted on 2008-04-15 14:40:51 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For us to try to safeguard our 2nd Amendment rights at the expense of lives of innocents worldwide doesn't fly in my book. the least we can do is die alone and let the rest of world be Go ahead, I'll preserve my right to live and live free. Sounds like you're drinking the koolaid neil. angle posted on 2008-04-15 15:04:45 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #56. To: angle, (#50) Go ahead, I'll preserve my right to live and live free. Sounds like you're drinking the koolaid neil. YOU are no different than the NWO elite!!! Because that's exactly what they say. So maybe you and JT can put that in your pipe and smoke it. Pinguinite posted on 2008-04-15 15:34:23 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply Here's the thread that changed the way I viewed Neil. It's not just one post. It was post after post when regular people who like Neil were questioning his statements. It just got bizarre.
freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...8060&Disp=50&Trace=on#C44
#50. To: Pinguinite (#44)
At the expense? How do you figure?
Replies to Comment # 50.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you believe in your moral right to preserve your legal right to a firearm surpasses the rights of others to live, then guess what....
#262. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#258)
My thoughts exactly.
"Why bother with the Bozo list at all? Most of the time, if I don't like somebody's posts, I just ignore them and read on. If somebody gets really obnoxious (by spamming the site), then just ban that person and move on."
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#263. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#260)
She bozo'd me on DayOne, and before I had even posted to her...LOL!! Scaredy-cat...MUD
"Bozo me please."
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#264. To: Pinguinite (#68)
"Debate" is not necessarily the be-all end-all. What's wrong with a magazine that gives different opinions about world events? Sure the writers may not read one another's articles, but the general readership will." Sounds more like an e-zine, not a political forum. When variant viewpoints are aired and debated civilly, it makes for an energetic, interesting Forum. "Do you want to FORCE the writers to read each other's articles?" LOL...of course not. But I like to see article posters who are willing to debate/defend what they posted. "If you want all the articles to agree, maybe, but that may be because some writers walk away." Nobody's proposing that...this needs to continue to be a big-tent Forum. Regards...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#265. To: Critter (#259)
I've got you bozo'd, critter...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#266. To: Mudboy Slim (#265)
Impossible.
I've got you bozo'd, critter...MUD
Tagline space for rent.
#267. To: angle, Pinguinite (#261)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#268. To: Mudboy Slim (#264)
Mud, why don't you call everyone who disagrees with you "Penis Breath"? Isn't that how you Limbaugh morons "civilly debate"? If not, then why do you debate that way?
Sounds more like an e-zine, not a political forum. When variant viewpoints are aired and debated civilly, it makes for an energetic, interesting Forum.
.
#269. To: James Deffenbach, angle, Jethro Tull (#236)
That is not true. Jethro Tull freely admitted and has never redacted nor denied, in spite of being given numerous opportunities to do so, that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights. The girl dies for the "greater good" he said. So, by his own admission, I characterize JT as willing to murder innocent people to further his own personal interests. Since it is true that he also opposes Obama, then in so far as JT is concerned the statement "accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers" is certainly true, but it is certainly false to construe that as accusing *all* people who oppose Obama as being akin to murderers. That is false. Angle should know better than to make such a false insinuation. Thank you.
Neil, this is the first I have heard of this (and of course I haven't read every thread that has been posted here). Is it true that you accused people who don't support Obama--which most certainly includes me but then I don't support ANY statist whore as anyone who knows me already knows--to be akin to murderers?
As I said in the only other post I have made to this thread I consider you a friend and that is why I find it hard to believe that you would even think such a thing, let alone post it.
#270. To: ghostdogtxn (#267)
I'm not so sure. Suppose you have a President that is such a known loser that even honest Republicans refuse to support him. And suppose you have a candidate that vows to continue the policies of the current failed President. Next suppose that someone makes the reasonable statement that an unknown Obama is much less scary than four more years of certain Bush. What can you do to counter this reasonable statement and to boost a candidate that even you don't support? You can't rationally refute the statement and you can't say anything good about McCain without drawing hoots from world at large. Answer: You try to intimidate the person making the statement into silence. (1) You try being rude and obnoxious hoping the person will be intimidated into silence. (2) If the person bozos you for being rude and obnoxious, you whine about the bozo function and pester Christine to remove it.
That's what reasoned debate is supposed to be about.
.
#271. To: angle (#261)
No, not "questioning". Not at all. I was being attacked. But thanks for including my statement that I advocated voting for Ron Paul.
It was post after post when regular people who like Neil were questioning his statements. It just got bizarre.
#272. To: ghostdogtxn (#267)
*Thank you* Ghost. I guess I've never really seen anyone contrast the value of a important but relatively abstract "Constitutional right" with real life killing and dying with is not abstract at all. Seems funny things happen when you do. Get accused of all kinds of stuff. I cannot fathom how any sane and moral person could possibly disagree with the a statement that basically says that it's wrong to kill innocent people to secure a 2A right, or any other comparatively abstract right. It blows my mind. (No pun intended).
Pinguinite takes the position that if we have to give up some ground on the R2KBA issue in exchange for not dropping bombs on some other population, then that's a sacrifice he's willing to make.
#273. To: Pinguinite (#269)
In your absurd hypothetical, given an either/or (do we keep the 2nd or not) yes, I'd be forced to kill an innocent girl. The alternative, to me, would be a nation of 300 million gun less slaves.
Jethro Tull freely admitted and has never redacted nor denied, in spite of being given numerous opportunities to do so, that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights.
#274. To: Pinguinite (#269)
Personal interests ? *Our* 2nd applies to our NATIONAL INTEREST. Neil, you are no longer trustworthy.
So, by his own admission, I characterize JT as willing to murder innocent people to further his own personal interests.
#275. To: Pinguinite, Jethro Tull (#269)
i think JT's position on that got misinterpreted like your original 2A one did. if you recall, you asked people to make a choice. most everyone said that they wouldn't or that they would change the scenario. JT was the only one who answered as if he were FORCED to choose between the life of one child and millions of other men, women, and children. that certainly doesn't mean that his decision was for his own personal interests. quite the contrary, it's unselfish and is an indication of caring for a greater number of people.
#276. To: Jethro Tull, Pinguinite (#273)
pardon the intrusion but what the hell sort of 'hypothetical scenario' would ever require such a bizzare nonsensical act? how would killing a kid ever be in any way related to defending gun rights? sounds like an invalid accusation and invalid example against tull. now if the kid or anyone had a gun pointed at you with evil intent then go for it., but even then, you'd probably react in a less lehtal way. i.e., grab their hand and take the gun. it sounds like pinguinite is alleging that all ardent gun rights supporters are somehow maniacal murderers. (??)
that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#277. To: Artisan (#276)
John Yoo has actually said, in response to a question at an appearance, that he would approve torturing a child in the course of the war on terror. And, of course, that has in fact been done at places like Abu Ghraib.
pardon the intrusion but what the hell sort of 'hypothetical scenario' would ever require such a bizzare nonsensical act? how would killing a kid ever be in any way related to defending gun rights? sounds like an invalid accusation and invalid example against tull.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#278. To: christine (#0)
I think it's fine the way it is, after all, you say we have a right to non association. making changes because of discord would be counter productive. its not like the place has been overtaken by war hawks or anything. i dont think anyone with a lick of sense would ever seriously support any establishment candidate now would they? Well, even if a wll-intentioned person did, as someone said last week everyone is on a different journey. i doubt many people on such a forum would support an establishments man though.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#279. To: aristeides (#277)
yeah but how does that relate to the example above where someone would have to harm an innocent to protect a right? the yoo example of torturing kids is not applicable to preserving any freedom.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#280. To: Jethro Tull (#274)
(1) You seem to be assuming that our national interest necessarily outweighs the interests of the human race. Aggressive war might be in the interest of the country that wages it, and still be very definitely wrong. But (2) I would maintain that aggressive wars like Bush's (or like the ones McCain and probably also Hillary would launch) are NOT in the U.S.'s interest, and indeed weigh more heavily in our nation's interests than does the 2nd Amendment.
*Our* 2nd applies to our NATIONAL INTEREST.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#281. To: Artisan (#279)
I suspect Yoo -- and Bush and Cheney -- would not agree.
the yoo example of torturing kids is not applicable to preserving any freedom.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#282. To: Pinguinite (#272)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#283. To: Critter (#5)
#5. To: christine (#3) I am bozoed 3 times now. I have no one on bozo. I think people that use bozo filter are sissies. :) Tagline space for rent. Critter posted on 2008-05-04 22:51:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply I have effectively trial-ran your idea of banning the filter. now everyone who has bozo'd you just read what you said.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#284. To: aristeides, Artisan (#280)
And upon the surrender of our 2nd, in
promise of global peace, what ensures that we won't become an unarmed nation,
ruled
by war mongering thugs?
I would maintain that aggressive wars like Bush's (or like the
ones McCain and probably also Hillary would launch) are NOT in the U.S.'s
interest, and indeed weigh more heavily in our nation's interests than does
the 2nd Amendment.
#285. To: ... (#270)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#286. To: ghostdogtxn (#285)
Yeah, I was just having fun.
.
#287. To: Jethro Tull (#284)
And upon the surrender of our 2nd, in promise of global peace,
what ensures that we won't become an unarmed nation, ruled by war mongering
thugs?
#288. To: Jethro Tull (#284)
I am unaware of anybody suggesting abolishing the 2nd Amendment. Obama wants to limit gun rights more than some people here would like, but he has never suggested anything like total abolition. In fact, by giving it as his constitutional view that the 2nd Amendment guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms, he goes further in your direction than any Democratic presidential candidate within my memory, and also than Hillary today.
And upon the surrender of our 2nd,
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#289. To: Pinguinite, ghostdogtxn (#272) (Edited)
since innocent people could never pose a legitimate threat to gun rights in the first place, i agree that killing innocents under the guise of 'protecting rights' is nonsense since such a scenario could not exist and is not valid. (I am not referring to a war that meets the stringent standards of the just war doctrine in which innocents are killed, that's a different topic.) Another aspect is that there's no doubt that some of these do-gooder gun grabbers are well intentioned. their conscious is clear and they believe they are doing the right thing. you want to see such an example? look at this 'health inspector bitch and how she with the pigs protection violate this guys right. they ended up seizing the guys home as a result of this violation of his rights. yet look at her, the socialist %$#@!. her conscience is 100% clear. would you say defending your land against such 'benevolent' intruders is wrong? this video is amazing.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#290. To: aristeides (#288)
I bet you're one of the folks who has me bozoed, but in case you're not, if Obama suggested limiting 1st amendment rights would you still support him?
Tagline space for rent.
#291. To: ghostdogtxn (#282)
The Bushite Republicans have so far kept their hands off the 2nd Amendment -- because it was in their political interest to do so. However, given the cavalier treatment they have given the rest of the Bill of Rights, I see no reason to have any confidence that they will keep their hands off the 2nd Amendment forever.
given a choice between having a lunatic warmonger (who will staunchly defend the 2d Am. but murder a lot of foreigners for no damn reason I can think of) versus someone who won't murder the foreigners (but is 'weak' on the 2d Am),
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#292. To: ghostdogtxn, Pinguinite (#267)
I have a lot of respect for Neil's opinions and I just happen to agree with him on this one. I do like my guns and the right to own them as much as the next guy, but I can't see sending our brave men and women off to kill and get killed is worth voting for or against any candidate based solely on my fears of having my gun owning rights diminished. It's a wedge issue anyway. I don't think that anyone is going to do away with the 2nd amedment.
Pinguinite takes the position that if we have to give up some ground on the R2KBA issue in exchange for not dropping bombs on some other population, then that's a sacrifice he's willing to make.
#293. To: aristeides (#288)
That's the hypothetical. Stay focused. Your answer?
And upon the surrender of our 2nd, in promise of global peace, what ensures that we won't become an unarmed nation, ruled by war mongering thugs?
#294. To: Critter (#290)
Actually, I have never actually said I support him. What I have said is that I am undecided between Barr and Obama. But we in fact do have limitations on the 1st Amendment today. For things like shouting "Fire!" in a theater and other things that create a clear and present danger. And most reasonable people support such limitations, within reason. I do. I imagine Obama does.
if Obama suggested limiting 1st amendment rights would you still support him?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#295. To: Jethro Tull (#293)
I do not say the 2nd Amendment has no importance. I am saying it can be outweighed by other things. No doubt a post-2nd Amendment America would also wage aggressive wars. I don't want that either. But there's no reason to think Obama would abolish the 2nd Amendment. And there's plenty of reason to doubt that a McCain would protect it any more than the rest of the Bill of Rights.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#296. To: ... (#286)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#297. To: Jethro Tull (#284)
it's a nonsensical discussion. we dont have to nor should we give up our basic human right of self defense in promise of ''world peace''. what bullshit. anyone who would fall for a gun grabber's promise of less war is deluded. THE ONLY REASON ANY POLITICAN EVER WANTS TO DISARM ANYONE, IS TO ULTIMATELY KILL THEM. no one sincerely for peace would ever try to oppress man's natural right, IMO.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#298. To: aristeides (#295)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#299. To: aristeides (#295)
I am saying it can be outweighed by other things. Your very presence is offensive.
I do not say the 2nd Amendment has no importance.
#300. To: All (#299)
three hunnerd
#301. To: aristeides (#295)
You continue to drift intentionally. Your answer?
And upon the surrender of our 2nd, in promise of global peace, what ensures that we won't become an unarmed nation, ruled by war mongering thugs?
#302. To: Artisan (#289)
They did? I remember seeing that a while ago, maybe a year or two. They actually were able to seize his home?
they ended up seizing the guys home as a result of this violation of his rights.
Tagline space for rent.
#303. To: ghostdogtxn (#298)
When the government decides to disarm us, they will. No one man will do it.
A strong second to that point, counsellor.
#304. To: Artisan (#289)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#305. To: aristeides (#291)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#306. To: aristeides (#295)
I'm also not sure what good a 45 would be against a smart bomb or whatever new weaponry might even be used against us by a tyrannical war machine regime.
But there's no reason to think Obama would abolish the 2nd Amendment. And there's plenty of reason to doubt that a McCain would protect it any more than the rest of the Bill of Rights.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#307. To: Arete (#303)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#308. To: ghostdogtxn (#305)
We get to die with hot iron in our hands? How nice. basically
What good will the 2d Amendment do us if they don't respect habeas corpus, posse comitatus or the 4th Amendment?
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#309. To: robin (#306)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#310. To: aristeides (#294)
OK would you still be considering him if he suggested that limiting the 1st amendment was ok? That does present a clear and present danger, but how would my owning a full auto m16 present a CLEAR and PRESENT danger to anyone? Limiting my right to own a full auto would be the same as limiting your right to say anything, because any word coming out of your mouth can be potentially as dangerous as me having a full auto in my closet.
Actually, I have never actually said I support him. What I have said is that I am undecided between Barr and Obama.
For things like shouting "Fire!" in a theater and other things that create a clear and present danger.
Tagline space for rent.
#311. To: ghostdogtxn (#304)
In one breath you can say it turned your stomach, and in the next you think it is essentially his fault that they entered illegally, found what they wanted to find, and seized his land?
As for them seizing his land, I suspect that had to do with something he was keeping there, or the condition it was in, and not just their illegal entry.
Tagline space for rent.
#312. To: robin (#306)
a well placed .45 round can take out one of their JBTs, and enough well placed .45 rounds could make the other team forfeit the game.
Tagline space for rent.
#313. To: Critter (#302)
yeah I came across that video and read all the comments, its funny but one link posted actually led back to here and a post here by fred mertz. if you do a search for my comments to him i think youll find the link and articles about the guy in the video. he did lose his home which was seized and auctioned. some people there at youtube posted that they'd have dropped both of them on the spot. well, everyone has their line in the sand. i leave it to the individuals conscience. i have often said my definite line in the sand is CPS. I would never allow anyone to steal my kids and i will never understand why anyone allows it. yes, in such a hypothetical scenario the govt would kill the person defending their rights, and burn their house down. But you know what? it would have been worth it. On the other hand in know personally many people who have gotten their kids seized by the state and eventually gotten them back. so if they had reacted like i would, they would not be alive and happy and together today. But no, i don't care. i could never allow such a thing to happen. such things must never be allowed, IMO. ever. the hypothetical which i refer to would be nearly identical to this video, theyd come with their jackboots in tow and violate the family. man this video makes me sick.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#314. To: Critter (#312)
(CBS) What if we told you the Pentagon has a ray gun? And what if we told you it can stop a person in his tracks without killing or even injuring him? Well, it’s true. You can’t see it, you can't hear it, but as CBS News correspondent David Martin experienced first hand, you can feel it.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#315. To: ghostdogtxn (#296)
That's the way I feel. He's the best choice of the three choices we are offered, and not necessarily the best overall candidate. And if that makes me an "Obama Worshiper" then so be it. Mostly I'm tired of the same old wild eyed, spittle dripping, right wing hysteria in lieu of rational discussion of the Obama candidacy. It harks back to the days of the breathless reports of Bill Clinton having sex with aliens from Venus at the Mena airport - anything to rile up the bitter goobers out in the trailer park. What I find confusing is people who claim there isn't a dimes worth of difference between the three candidates and who then wear themselves out attacking Obama 24/7. And who destroy their reputations trying to silence people who want to hold a rational discussion on the guy. If it's true that there isn't a dimes worth of difference between the three, why should they give a rats ass who wins? But their actions prove that they obviously do care who wins.
I'm not a staunch supporter of Obama by any means. I've come to the conclusion that he's probably the least of the 3 evils currently "in the running"; and that's about the best I can say for him.
.
#316. To: All, Mudboy Slim (#264)
You all understand what Mud is leading up to, right? Official "Restore Badeye's Posting Privileges" Thread (Article) "...this needs to continue to be a big-tent Forum. Regards...MUD"
"Well, Badeye hasn't asked me to do this, but I was wondering, is there any interest in letting him back on the Forum?......Show of hands...should we let Badeye back on if he promises to behave?......He was good at stirring up the pot...MUD
Post Date: 2008-05-01 00:36:54 From: Mudboy Slim To: All
#317. To: Artisan (#313) (Edited)
Makes me sick too. There needs to be a better way to call out the militia to defend our neighbors' property.
Tagline space for rent.
#318. To: Critter (#311)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#319. To: robin (#314)
All of those fancy toys are only effective against groups of individuals. The next revolution will be fought and won by 10 million militias of one.
Tagline space for rent.
#320. To: ... (#315)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#321. To: Critter, all (#312)
The Iraqi nationals have our military pinned down like Gulliver on the beach with AKs, but many here would surrender that right for the promise of a politician.
#322. To: Big Meanie (#316)
Mud's already made a valiant effort to silence the viewpoints he disagrees with over here. He's insulted people, he's tossed out obscenities and he's stalked various posters. Mostly this just earned him a double digit bozo rating that the contempt of the forum. Mud isn't very bright, but it seems that even he has figured out that he's not going to shut up viewpoints counter to the party line. And he certainly isn't going to refute them. So he needs reinforcements.
You all understand what Mud is leading up to, right?
.
#323. To: Jethro Tull, Robin (#321)
The only reason we still have any freedom at all is that they know damned well that we can make the Iraqi resistance look like child's play, and as you well noted, even the Iraqi child's play is more than a match for them.
The Iraqi nationals have our military pinned down like Gulliver on the beach with AKs,
Tagline space for rent.
#324. To: ... (#315) (Edited)
That's probably just because they're reacting against all of the pro-Obama material on the forum. There are only one or two people here who said they would vote for McCain, but it seems like half the people at the 4um are Obama supporters. And some of these don't just use the "lesser evil" argument, they seem to be in love with the guy. So naturally there are more posts, pro and con, about Obama than the other candidates. There aren't too many McCain supporters to spar with, or BS about what a wonderful guy Mad Mac is to rebut, which I guess is a good thing. Speaking for myself, I spend about the same amount of time posting information about why McCain is unfit to be President as Obama. The only reason I don't have as much to say about Hillary is that she's not likely to be in the general election.
What I find confusing is people who claim there isn't a dimes worth of difference between the three candidates and who then wear themselves out attacking Obama 24/7. And who destroy their reputations trying to silence people who want to hold a rational discussion on the guy.
#325. To: ... (#322)
That doesn't sound like the Mud I know. I was just having fun with him. I've always thought he was one of the least offensive of the neocons.
"Mud's already made a valiant effort to silence the viewpoints he disagrees with over here. He's insulted people, he's tossed out obscenities and he's stalked various posters."
#326. To: Big Meanie, Mudboy Slim (#316)
Let's start a pool for the date that MUD will tell us we need to do the right thing and vote against the worst evil...endorsing McNuts. I'll start, Halloween Day 2008.
You all understand what Mud is leading up to, right?
#327. To: Pinguinite (#269)
I missed that thread, so perhaps I'm missing the point, but everyone knew when the 2d Amendment was ratified that innocent people would be murdered.
"Jethro Tull freely admitted and has never redacted nor denied, in spite of being given numerous opportunities to do so, that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights. The girl dies for the 'greater good' he said."
#328. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#324)
That's the way I feel about it. And I think it's a good thing too. I don't like what I've seen of her and I've tried to give her the benefit of the doubt and to cut through some of the mindless demonization. IMO, the choice is between McCain and Obama. And it's not a good choice. But given the past 8 years, I'd take an unknown over four more years of what we just had. And it seems to me that more of the same is exactly what McCain is promising us. But even if McCain is just pandering to the Limbaugh crowd, and that's a real possibility, there is still his apparent willingness to go to war. And that nixes him for me. I don't think the country could survived a genuine knock down drag out war at this point. There's also the issue of the economy. We're in real trouble here and Bush's policies haven't worked. In fact, it's easy to argue that they caused the problem. McCain's promise to continue them doesn't get him a lot of points in my book.
The only reason I don't have as much to say about Hillary is that she's not likely to be in the general election.
.
#329. To: ghostdogtxn, critter (#318)
your comment reminds me of the chapter in james bovard's book LOST RIGHTS: THE DESTRUCTION OF AMERICAN LIBERTY in which he covers george bush senior's signings of massive new 'wetlands' protections and all the effects that had. The book is over 10 yrs old and is one of the best i have ever read. a very well written and engaging comprehensive treatise on the destruction of every arena of freedom. i think it should be a must read for every high school kid.
as he was probably doing something with it that Leviathan has deemed he shouldn't have,
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#330. To: Critter (#317)
I think the militia wouldnt give a shit about your land, you have to take care of it yourself because when it comes down to it youre, we're, all on our own. Other than very dedicated family or friends, who all have their own family interests to safguard. who would really risk everything for someone elses land? example, there's a case of a 911 truther in a very well know and lauded truth group going up against phony charges brought on by FOX NEWS in los angeles. do you think he can find one measly 'patriot' lawyer to help him? ha.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#331. To: Jethro Tull (#273)
Finally, JT gives some accounting for his decision. I'm somewhat tempted to pursue this further, but it would take some effort that I think will be wasted. Please tell me if I should bother.
In your absurd hypothetical, given an either/or (do we keep the 2nd or not) yes, I'd be forced to kill an innocent girl. The alternative, to me, would be a nation of 300 million gun less slaves.
#332. To: Jethro Tull (#274)
Fine. Would you vote for someone for president who promised to bomb the nation of Iran if he also promised to secure the national interests of the USA by restoring the 2A?
*Our* 2nd applies to our NATIONAL INTEREST.
#333. To: ALL (#265)
I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.
#334. To: christine (#333)
Big wupty. :p I think eliminating anonymous bozoing would have been better. :)
he total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20.
Tagline space for rent.
#335. To: christine (#275)
My hypothetical scenario did not offer a choice between causing the death of 1 person vs causing the death of millions of others. It latter choice was only for securing the 2A. IF JT equated the latter with the death of millions, then that would be some moral justification in his favor. But that was not the option I had painted.
JT was the only one who answered as if he were FORCED to choose between the life of one child and millions of other men, women, and children. that certainly doesn't mean that his decision was for his own personal interests.
#336. To: Artisan (#330)
Sometimes I say things just to drop rhetorical hints out amongst the crowd.
I think the militia wouldnt give a shit about your land,
Tagline space for rent.
#337. To: all (#335)
got this from RTR: I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed. I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place. I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world. I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world. I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government. I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared. I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon. I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy. I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love. I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate. I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me. John Steinbeck issued a warning that all should remember: 'Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass kickin'. And remember, GOD created man, Sam Colt made them equal. Remember this statement: "When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government [or the IRS, for that matter], you have Tyranny." (Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence of the United States) Disclaimer I'm not a Lawyer, this is not legal advice. Nor am I a Brain Surgeon, Pastry Chef or Indian Chief. This communication is private and privileged intended only to those individuals marked "To", "CC" or "BCC". To the snoopy government agencies, or anyone else this mail isn't being specifically directed to; you are cordially invited and instructed to PISS OFF!!
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#338. To: Big Meanie, Badeye (#316)
ROFL!! Hey, I don't think Badeye's been banned from this place yet, maybe he'll show up. LOL...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#339. To: christine (#333) (Edited)
IMO, why have a bozo function. Eliminate it. If you want in on a discussion forum, you go with the discussion you have, not the discussion you want, which in many cases turns into an echochambercirclejerk.
#340. To: FOH (#326)
Sheeesh, I could care less who y'all vote for, and McCain's gonna win my home state of Virginia handily, so it really doesn't matter who I vote for either. I just like arguing...MUD
"Let's start a pool for the date that MUD will tell us we need to do the right thing and vote against the worst evil...endorsing McNuts. I'll start, Halloween Day 2008."
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#341. To: ... (#322)
"Mud's already made a valiant effort to silence the viewpoints he disagrees with over here." Evidence, please. "He's insulted people..." I give as I get... "...he's tossed out obscenities..." Waaaahhh!! "...and he's stalked various posters." You are a BALD-FACED LIAR, twinkle-toes. "Mostly this just earned him a double digit bozo rating that the contempt of the forum." Nope...three bozos total...MUD
TripleDot, you are a whiner...
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#342. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#324)
Make it three.
There are only one or two people here who said they would vote for McCain …
#343. To: christine, penguinite (#0)
This thread's got me so pissed off, I decided to bozo myself.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#344. To: karelian (#342)
I've yet to say I definitely WON'T vote for McCain...it's waaay too early...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#345. To: karelian (#342)
Hell, I'll vote for him, but being from MA, it's a throwaway vote anyway. Why? Cindy McCain, she looks like she was born for the WhiteHouse. And how cool is it for a guy to marry the hot heiress of a BEER distributor?
#346. To: Mudboy Slim (#344)
LOLOL !!! Just remember, I've got your coming out party for Halloween Day 2008 in the 4um free pick'em pool...
I've yet to say I definitely WON'T vote for McCain...it's waaay too early...MUD
#347. To: Mudboy Slim (#341)
You're a liar here. I know five who have you on Bozo and I know there are more.
Nope...three bozos total...MUD
.
#348. To: christine (#333)
Since I already explained although I just started using bozo and have more than 10 on bozo, that means I'll be off then. There are 60-80 unique posters a day on this forum, 14 didn't seem that many when it allowed me to have a pleasant experience. Bye.
I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.
"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#349. To: robin (#348)
Bye. And thus the people who pushed you into bozoing them get what they want.
Bye.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#350. To: Artisan (#297)
anyone who would fall for a gun grabber's promise of less war is deluded. THE ONLY REASON ANY POLITICAN EVER WANTS TO DISARM ANYONE, IS TO ULTIMATELY KILL THEM. no one sincerely for peace would ever try to oppress man's natural right, IMO. applauding...i soooo concur!
it's a nonsensical discussion. we dont have to nor should we give up our basic human right of self defense in promise of ''world peace''. what bullshit.
#351. To: robin (#348)
Well, shows what differences people have when they hop on a board. Not to be derogatory, but if you want a pleasant experience, you gotta do something else. In a discussion forum, if there's no heat or conflict, it's boring. You shouldn't leave.
a pleasant experience
#352. To: robin (#348)
Take care. 4um's loss is the DUmpster's gain...
Bye.
#353. To: tom007 (#343)
Now you went and made me try that. I can't see any of my posts. lol
This thread's got me so pissed off, I decided to bozo myself.
Tagline space for rent.
#354. To: karelian (#342)
Make it three. Are you insane?
There are only one or two people here who said they would vote for McCain …
#355. To: angle, Neil McIver (#261)
Seems that people got some wires seriously crossed or something. I saw a thread--maybe the one you pulled these quotes from?--where Neil posed a hypothetical question about whether you would kill an innocent child if, by doing so, you could protect your right to keep and bear arms. On its face it sounds like a question someone might ask who has maybe had a bit much to drink. I wouldn't kill an innocent child but, assuming I only had to think of myself and not worry about others around me, I wouldn't hesitate to blow any adult away who came to take it from me. I ask for nothing more from the government than to be left alone and don't think that is too much to ask. By that same token I could never harm an innocent person who had not harmed me. Neil, could you please elaborate a bit on what would cause you to ask such a question? It seemed out of character to me.
Here's the thread that changed the way I viewed Neil. It's not just one post. It was post after post when regular people who like Neil were questioning his statements. It just got bizarre.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#356. To: robin, christine (#348)
It's your site and your rules but I think you've made a mistake in doing this Christine. While I believe the use of the bozo filter is chickenshit, I also think it allows those participating in this online community to practice a bit of freedom of association. If they do not want to associate with a particular person, they shouldn't have to. If they want to live in a bubble where the only replies they ever hear are the ones they agree with, then, it shouldn't be anyone else's business, although I would question why they are here in the first place. But like I said, your house, your rules.
I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
#357. To: swarthyguy (#345)
Hey, you got that right! Even the “better half” noted that “we would feel proud to trot her out in front of the world’s diplomatic corps!
Why? Cindy McCain, she looks like she was born for the WhiteHouse.
#358. To: robin (#348)
;-(
Bye.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#359. To: karelian (#357)
Yeah, a virtual WASP Blonde Ice Goddess, coiffed, poised, impeccably dressed with a classy sense of style and blonde. Wonder if she engaged in any photographic indiscretions when she was younger. Compare to Bill and Michelle, and I tell ya, they may not admit it, but many voters will gravitate to her, and not only men, women too.
#360. To: tom007 (#343)
LOL! Post of the day... This thread's got me so pissed off, I decided to bozo myself.
| Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise. |
#361. To: swarthyguy (#345)
Why? Cindy McCain, she looks like she was born for the WhiteHouse. And how cool is it for a guy to marry the hot heiress of a BEER distributor? Yeah, those are all great reasons to vote for somebody. No wonder we're stuck with crooks and idiots in the WH each time around.
Hell, I'll vote for him, but being from MA, it's a throwaway vote anyway.
#362. To: robin (#348)
Bye. I don't fully understand why the bozos have to be limited. If you don't want to talk to someone, why should you be forced to do so? And if someone doesn't want to be bozo'd, then let them act like a human being.
Bye.
.
#363. To: karelian (#342)
Why would you vote for four more years of Bush?
#364. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#361)
You got any better, after all, Americans have put Bush in twice because despite being a teetotaller, more Americans felt more comfortable having a beer with him as opposed to Gore or Kerry. You got your criteria, I got mine, promises of changing the world and the way Washington does business are flowery campaign rhetoric. The system puts Obama in such a sweet spot, why first of all, does he wish to change it anyway, when he's been the beneficiary of it to the extent that Obama, a one term Senator with barely a couple of years in the Senate gets to compete for the highest political office in the land.
#365. To: swarthyguy (#364)
Sorry, but I can't think of a more stupid reason to vote for somebody. You may as well vote for a candidate who's taller or a better dresser. And I'm not supporting Obama -the best I can do is a third party protest vote, which is a hell of a lot better than an endorsement of somebody whose views I despise. I can't understand why anyone who claims to be against the welfare and warfare state would support either McCain or Obama.
Americans have put Bush in twice because despite being a teetotaller, more Americans felt more comfortable having a beer with him as opposed to Gore or Kerry
#366. To: TwentyTwelve (#354)
Well, I was shot in the head in Viet Nam! VA said I was OK, but what do they know.
Are you insane?
#367. To: karelian (#366)
Never trust the VA.
Well, I was shot in the head in Viet Nam! VA said I was OK, but what do they know.
#368. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#365)
And you're criticising me for frivolity in my voting criteria? Some know nothing numbnut party that can't even win local election spots and wants to be a Presidential party? The best third party performers, Perot and John Anderson acted like nothing more than spoilers ultimately.
a third party protest vote
#369. To: swarthyguy (#368) (Edited)
The "spoilers" business is spin from the Dems and GOP. They like to pretend that they own votes, and that if third party candidates weren't there, they'd get the votes that "belong" to them. Fact is, most third party voters would rather stay home than vote for Bush/Gore, Bush/Kerry, or McHillObama. And yes, voting on "who you'd rather have a beer with" is pretty frivolous. Especially when Bush's cowboy/regular guy image is as phony as everything else he says. He's your typical spoiled, rich frat brat, just a bit slower than the rest. I have to give his handlers credit for the good PR job, though, it sure fooled a lot of people.
#370. To: Pinguinite (#332)
Neal, I no longer vote *because* I don't trust promises by politicians. Where in god's holy name are you going with this?
Would you vote for someone for president who promised to bomb the nation of Iran if he also promised to secure the national interests of the USA by restoring the 2A?
#371. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#369)
But my bigger point is that voters vote on a variety of criteria, not necessarily on the high minded analysis that many may think. Comfort level with the candidate is key in America, and any candidate who doesn't provide that usually doesn't win. As far as spoiler being spin, I'll concede that, but it doesn't detract from my point that no matter how talented the individual, going national without institutional support only carries you so far.
#372. To: karelian (#366)
Inadvertent trepanning. Gotta look at the bright side, it may have made you terminally immune to politician's promises. No faith, no disappointment.
#373. To: Pinguinite (#269)
I thought it sounded so far out of character for you to suggest that anyone who didn't vote for some statist was somehow on the same par with murderers. Thanks for your post clearing that up.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#374. To: TwentyTwelve, robin, red jones, swarthyguy, jethro Tull, lodwick (#354)
Make it three. Are you insane? Make it four. I just came back from the McCain HQ here in my Hummer with yellow ribbons on it and gave the campaign TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS in twenties and intend to do it tomorrow and every day after that until he wins. Our future is at stake and we need a man who knows what the Muslime World understands and respects - Violence and Pain. They are happy to be in Club Gitmo, there they get better attention than they ever did in their pig stys in Iraq. The Iraqi people are grateful we are in Iraq to liberate them. Did you know I made a huge amount of moola from my Halliburton stocks? Its true I bought thousands of shares at the Jan18 bottom and sold at the April 22 top. I do this all the time. All I see here is poor, poor peaceniks. Gotta go, my butler says its time for my pedicure, and I have Richard Perle waiting on the phone, (they like to run policy change by me to see what I think), they all really love me.
There are only one or two people here who said they would vote for McCain …
#375. To: robin (#348)
Don't let the door hit you on the way out you closet commie.
Mark
If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
#376. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#374)
Glad you got a Hummer. Did you give it to yourself as a gift? I am not much of a McCain guy. Personally, I am hoping Bush refuses to step down and just remains in office as President for life.
I just came back from the McCain HQ here in my Hummer
---------------------------------------------------------
Aren't you lucky. You get to receive one of the 15 posts I'm allowed each day.
#377. To: aristeides (#288)
What do you suspect would lead the moron to believe that it is any of his business what guns other people have or don't have? If he doesn't want any guns he shouldn't have any and if he doesn't like them at all then the people who guard the goofy eff shouldn't have any either. I am so tired of politicians and people like Rosie O'Donnell who think that peons shouldn't have any weapons but it is fine for people to protect them with those evil guns.
Obama wants to limit gun rights more than some people here would like
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#378. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#374)
I hope you lose every penny of your $10,000. You must really hate America.
I just came back from the McCain HQ here in my Hummer with yellow ribbons on it and gave the campaign TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS in twenties and intend to do it tomorrow and every day after that until he wins.
#379. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#374)
McKook can't even ties his shoes. What a joke.
Our future is at stake and we need a man who knows what the Muslime World understands
#380. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#374)
Our future is at stake and we need a man who knows what the Muslime World understands and respects - Violence and Pain.
#381. To: Artisan, Pinguinite, ghostdogtxn (#289)
I believe this guy had his property condemned and he was forced to vacate. Ray Kirkus Mr Flatt, This is formal notice and request: I am calling on the Indiana Militia to assist and restore constitutional government in the Laporte County Indiana Courts and within the Sheriff's office. You have seen the video. NOW this kangaroo court moves forward while the previous order is still under appeal and then my jury demand is denied!! These clowns are OUT OF CONTROL AND HAVE RUN AMOK! The property has been ordered vacated by Judge Baldoni based on absolutely "no evidence" and no facts; no water or soil samples and a 5 minute inspection which was ordered unlawfully and still under appeal. all based on a dry rotted 4" pvc pipe that discharges nothing but is simply a drain tile. The appeal fact alone prevents both the court and the health dept from moving forward. However at the last hearing, Baldoni denied me a jury trial and proceeded summarily anyway, then ordered my son out of his home by midnight. Enough is enough, this is a formal call calling on your organization and requesting its assistance to restore the Indiana Constitution and arrest Judge Baldoni for sedition and treason and to arrest Sheriff Arnold for failure in performing his duties while viewing an offence in his presence and doing nothing. Where is your line William, or do you keep redrawing it as these criminals do more and more damage to the people of Indiana? If you are not the one in charge, please forward this email to the ones who are. THIS IS AN SOS and A FORMAL REQEUST OF THE INDIANA MILITIA TO DEFEND THE PEOPLES RIGHTS AS SECURED BY THE INDIANA AND FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONS IN LIBERTY, IF we do not hang together on these issues, then we will most assuredly hang seperately.... Ben Franklin IN LIBERTY, IF we do not hang together on these issues, then we will most assuredly hang seperately.... Ben Franklin His reading of the 4th differs from that interpretation of the Supreme Court on what constitutes an unreasonable search. http://laws.findlaw.com/us/359/360.html FRANK v. MARYLAND. A Baltimore City health inspector seeking the source of a rat infestation discovered evidence of such an infestation in the rear of appellant's home, and, having no search warrant, requested appellant's permission to inspect his basement in the day time. For refusing such permission, appellant was convicted and fined for a violation of 120 of Art. 12 of the Baltimore City Code, which provides that, "Whenever the Commissioner of Health shall have cause to suspect that a nuisance exists in any house, cellar or enclosure, he may demand entry therein in the day time, and if the owner or occupier shall refuse or delay to open the same and admit a free examination, he shall forfeit and pay for every such refusal the sum of Twenty Dollars." Held: Section 120 is valid, and appellant's conviction for resisting an inspection of his house without a warrant did not violate the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Pp. 361-373. Affirmed. Benjamin Lipsitz argued the cause and filed a brief for appellant. C. Ferdinand Sybert, Attorney General of Maryland, and James H. Norris, Jr., Special Assistant Attorney General, argued the cause for appellee. With them on the brief were Hugo A. Ricciuti and W. Thomas Gisriel. A brief urging affirmance was filed for the Member Municipalities of the National Institute of Municipal Law Officers, as amici curiae, by Joe W. Anderson, Roger Arnebergh, John C. Banks, Alexander G. Brown, Nathaniel H. Goldstick, William N. Gurtman, Claude V. Jones, Ralph S. Locher, Walter J. Mattison, John C. Melaniphy, Barnett I. Shur, Charles H. Tenney, Charles S. Rhyne, Brice W. Rhyne and S. White Rhyne, Jr. [359 U.S. 360, 361] MR. JUSTICE FRANKFURTER delivered the opinion of the Court. Acting on a complaint from a resident of the 4300 block of Reisterstown Road, Baltimore, Maryland, that there were rats in her basement, Gentry, an inspector of the Baltimore City Health Department, began an inspection of the houses in the vicinity looking for the source of the rats. In the middle of the afternoon of February 27, 1958, Gentry knocked on the door of appellant's detached frame home at 4335 Reisterstown Road. After receiving no response he proceeded to inspect the area outside the house. This inspection revealed that the house was in an "extreme state of decay," and that in the rear of the house there was a pile later identified as "rodent feces mixed with straw and trash and debris to approximately half a ton." During this inspection appellant came around the side of the house and asked Gentry to explain his presence. Gentry responded that he had evidence of rodent infestation and asked appellant for permission to inspect the basement area. Appellant refused. At no time did Gentry have a warrant authorizing him to enter. The next forenoon Gentry, in the company of two police officers, returned to appellant's house. After receiving no response to his knock, he reinspected the exterior of the premises. He then swore out a warrant for appellant's arrest alleging a violation of 120 of Art. 12 of the Baltimore City Code. That section provides: The Health Code of the City of Baltimore, of which 120 is an important part, deals with many of the multiform aspects of hygiene in modern urban areas. A vital portion concerns the hygiene of housing. Typical of the content and method of enforcing its provisions is the section requiring that "[e]very dwelling and every part thereof shall be kept clean and free from any accumulation of dirt, filth, rubbish, garbage or similar matter, and shall be kept free from vermin or rodent infestation." Baltimore City Code, Art. 12, 112. If the occupant of a building fails to meet this standard, he is notified by the Commissioner of Health to abate the substandard conditions. 1 Failure to remove these hazards to community health gives rise to criminal prosecution. Ibid. The attempted inspection of appellant's home was merely to ascertain the existence of evils to be corrected upon due notification or, in default of such correction, to be made the basis of punishment. We have said that "[t]he security of one's privacy against arbitrary intrusion by the police" is fundamental to a free society and as such protected by the Fourteenth [359 U.S. 360, 363] Amendment. Wolf v. Colorado, 338 U.S. 25, 27 . Application of the broad restraints of due process compels inquiry into the nature of the demand being made upon individual freedom in a particular context and the justification of social need on which the demand rests. The history of the constitutional protection against official invasion of the citizen's home makes explicit the human concerns which it was meant to respect. In years prior to the Revolution leading voices in England and the Colonies protested against the ransacking by Crown officers of the homes of citizens in search of evidence of crime or of illegally imported goods. The vivid memory by the newly independent Americans of these abuses produced the Fourth Amendment as a safeguard against such arbitrary official action by officers of the new Union, as like provisions had already found their way into State Constitutions. In 1765, in England, what is properly called the great case of Entick v. Carrington, 19 Howell's State Trials, col. 1029, announced the principle of English law which became part of the Bill of Rights and whose basic protection has become imbedded in the concept of due process of law. It was there decided that English law did not allow officers of the Crown to break into a citizen's home, under cover of a general executive warrant, to search for evidence of the utterance of libel. Among the reasons given for that decision were these: Inspection without a warrant, as an adjunct to a regulatory scheme for the general welfare of the community and not as a means of enforcing the criminal law, has antecedents deep in our history. * * * Affirmed.would you say defending your land against such 'benevolent' intruders is wrong? this video is amazing.
http://www.apfn.net/Messageboard/07-04-06/discussion.cgi.77.html
CALLING ON THE INDIANA MILITIA
Sun Jul 2, 2006 10:17
Ray Kirkus
Ray Kirkus U.S. Supreme Court
FRANK v. MARYLAND, 359 U.S. 360 (1959)
359 U.S. 360
APPEAL FROM THE CRIMINAL COURT OF BALTIMORE, MARYLAND.
No. 278.
Argued March 5, 1959.
Decided May 4, 1959. "Whenever the Commissioner of Health shall have cause to suspect that a nuisance exists in any house, cellar or enclosure, he may demand entry therein in the day time, and if the owner or occupier shall refuse or delay to open the same and admit a free examination, he shall forfeit and pay for every such refusal the sum of Twenty Dollars." [359 U.S. 360, 362]
Appellant was arrested on March 5, and the next day was found guilty of the offense alleged in the warrant by a Police Justice for the Northern District of Baltimore and fined twenty dollars. On appeal, the Criminal Court of Baltimore, in a de novo proceeding, also found appellant guilty. The Maryland Court of Appeals denied certiorari. The case came here under a challenge, 28 U.S.C. 1257 (2), to the validity of 120 to determine whether appellant's conviction for resisting an inspection of his house without a warrant was obtained in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment. "It is very certain, that the law obligeth no man to accuse himself; because the necessary means of compelling self-accusation, falling upon the innocent as well as the guilty, would be both cruel and unjust; and it should seem, that search for evidence is disallowed upon the same principle. There too the innocent would be confounded with the guilty." Id., at col. 1073. [359 U.S. 360, 364]
These were not novel pronouncements to the colonists. A few years earlier, in Boston, revenue officers had been authorized to use Writs of Assistance, empowering them to search suspected places, including private houses, for smuggled goods. In 1761 the validity of the use of the Writs was contested in the historic proceedings in Boston. James Otis attacked the Writ of Assistance because its use placed "the liberty of every man in the hands of every petty officer." 2 His powerful argument so impressed itself first on his audience and later on the people of all the Colonies that President Adams was in retrospect moved to say that "American Independence was then and there born." 3 Many years later this Court, in Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616 , carefully reviewed this history and pointed out, as did Lord Camden in Entick v. Carrington, that ". . . the 'unreasonable searches and seizures' condemned in the Fourth Amendment are almost always made for the purpose of compelling a man to give [359 U.S. 360, 365] evidence against himself, which in criminal cases is condemned in the Fifth Amendment; and compelling a man 'in a criminal case to be a witness against himself,' which is condemned in the Fifth Amendment, throws light on the question as to what is an `unreasonable search and seizure' within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment." 116 U.S., at 633 .
* * *
#382. To: Big Meanie (#316)
Hey, Big Meanie. Good to cybersee you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#383. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE, FOH (#374)
Make it three. Are you insane? Make it four. There are only one or two people here who said they would vote for McCain …
#384. To: ... (#328) (Edited)
Which for me is no choice at all.
IMO, the choice is between McCain and Obama.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
#385. To: christine (#0)
Never have, never will.
...everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?
"The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states." Charles Dickens, 1862
#386. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE, FOH (#374)
Make it three. Are you insane? Make it four. There are only one or two people here who said they would vote for McCain …
#387. To: BAC (#376)
I am not much of a McCain guy. Personally, I am hoping Bush refuses to step down and just remains in office as President for life. Actually Jack Abramoff gave it to me for supporting the Indian Tribal gambling policies. As for Bush - that's an wonderful and exciting thought!! You have made my day just a little happier, Thank You so much my good friend, BAC.
Glad you got a Hummer. Did you give it to yourself as a gift?
#388. To: TwentyTwelve (#378)
You must really hate America. It would make no difference to lose the money. With my sophisticated hedge fund managers, $10,000 is in the daily "noise Level". No I don't hate America, but I do support the troops in finding Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and hope that, if Hillary goes get to be president, she keeps her promise to "obliterate" the total nation of Iran, as their military is an serious threat to the lives of all freedom loving Americans, of which only a few post here. Its the only good idea she ever had.
I hope you lose every penny of your $10,000.
#389. To: All (#388)
My goodness I forgot to wear my pin. 
#390. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#389)
#391. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#389)
Obama's is bigger
#392. To: christine, Jethro Tull (#0)
If I recall correctly, a certain dog said this would happen. When I read my mission statement and what Freedom4um was created to be, I don't even recognize the place anymore. That's something anyone over 40 should be able to relate to. As in large things, so in the small. Celebrate Diversity!
I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum.
Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”
#393. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#389)
My goodness I forgot to wear my pin.
#394. To: Jethro Tull (#391)
No, I am bigger than him in every way. He's the type of guy that the government security needs to do something. I think he represents a threat to our liberties. He is a jew hater. America would be destroyed if he, God forbid, were to be elected. Obama's is bigger
#395. To: All (#0)
I'm interrupting this flame-fest to bring all of you this important announcement: 
"The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states." Charles Dickens, 1862
#396. To: X-15 (#395)
BRAVO...loud applause!!
important announcement
#397. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#394)
Badeye! I can't help it if my flag pin is small. It costs a lot of money to buy the big ones. only republicans can afford that. maybe you could help us poor people by giving us large flag pins too!!
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#398. To: X-15 (#395)
This looks like more fun: 
Tagline space for rent.
#399. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#388)
The only thing that has always filled me with dread is the mere thought of having to fight the amphibian trans-oceanic camel corps. The old Soviet Union with her thousands of submarine launched MIRVs pale in comparison. Just imagine the devastation a non-existent nuclear devise without a delivery system can do. It will, however, cause 6 M. Israelis to soil their tasseled undies, but that’s not our problem.
[…] nation of Iran, as their military is an serious threat to the lives of all freedom loving Americans …
#400. To: karelian (#399)
I believe that the Russians still have more nuclear weapons than we do. and the Chinese are building them. Increasingly the American position in this world is growing difficult, given all the aggression, the way our leadership is headed and how blind are people are in the situation.
The old Soviet Union with her thousands of submarine launched MIRVs pale in comparison.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#401. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#394)
#402. To: swarthyguy (#359)
Yeah, and with rich, snotty, self-absorbed bitch smeared all over her. Have you ever heard her say two words? Except maybe something in Johnnie's ear like "don't get to close him, he's not our kind".
Yeah, a virtual WASP Blonde Ice Goddess, coiffed, poised, impeccably dressed with a classy sense of style and blonde.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#403. To: Red Jones (#397)
No then you might get confused with the loyal Americans who value freedom. Besides us few rich need a surplus of poor to do our bidding.
only republicans can afford that. maybe you could help us poor people by giving us large flag pins too!!
#404. To: karelian (#399)
You must support the jews, it is your task according to the word. God Bless George Bush.
Just imagine the devastation a non-existent nuclear devise without a delivery system can do. It will, however, cause 6 M. Israelis to soil their tasseled undies, but that’s not our problem.
#405. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#403)
#406. To: karelian (#342)
Good for you ... it's the people voting for Baldwin, some other dude whose name escapes me, poor Dr. Paul, George Washington, or Barry Goldwater that get on my nerves. Sheesh, why trudge out to the polls just so you can brag about being an oddball eccentric till the next election.
Make it three. (for McCain)
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#407. To: iconoclast (#406)
Why vote for someone you believe is going to screw you over?
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
#408. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#404)
God Bless George Bush. You must support the jews, it is your task according to the word.
#409. To: TwentyTwelve (#401)
I think you are right, I'll see about allocating more of my massive portfolio into Halliburton, Carysile, Lockheed, and I really want to get some of the Blackwater IPO action. Those boys do a great job!! Egads, I am going to have a great year financially, I'll be able to support the AIPAC and jewish supremist candidates even more. And if that wench Clinton some how wins, our PAC will make her keep her campaign promise to us to "Obliterate" Iran. What a GREAT PASSOVER 2009 will be. Plenty for all the chosen. I love America.
Hundred more years of war.
#410. To: TwentyTwelve (#405)
Thanks TT. I knew you would come round. Its God's Plan.
#411. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#409)
I'll see about allocating more of my massive portfolio into Halliburton, Carysile, Lockheed, and I really want to get some of the Blackwater IPO action. Those boys do a great job!!
#412. To: Dakmar (#407)
Damn, I hate it when you finally roll out of bed.
Why vote for someone you believe is going to screw you over?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#413. To: iconoclast (#412)
Actually I just finished mowing and raking the yard. Stupid weed-n-feed...
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
#414. To: christine (#0)
Careful cristine, you're beginning to sound a lot like JR. Growth? I'm noticing more posters MIA than new ones.
There will be changes made in the near future as I decide what is best for the continued growth of this forum.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#415. To: Dakmar (#413)
Dandelion Soup (Jewish Sephardic) Jewish cooking has many varieties, depending on the country of origin. Sephardic cooking indicates one of the peoples in the Mediterranean area - Spanish, Italian, Greek, Turkish to name a few. This soup is a wonderful springtime use of dandelion, an under used green that is rich in nutrients.Actually I just finished mowing and raking the yard.
#416. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#404)
Judenrein is the “word” I learned early on; you might, or might not, recall my much earlier post about living in a Nazi occupied country during WW II. (It wasn’t all that exiting.)
You must support the jews, it is your task according to the word.
#417. To: Jethro Tull (#415)
Sounds damn good. But I'll probably substitute hand-cut, extra garlic kielbasa for the garlic beef sausage.
Dandelion Soup (Jewish Sephardic)
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#418. To: robin (#348)
well robin, we've all enjoyed reading your posts & tremendous articles & links you put up routinely. The forum will suffer if you leave. Thats why Christine might re-consider. then you'll be back (we hope). if you take your energy and intelligence to another forum, then they will benefit tremendously. however, I feel less & less reason to participate myself. someone said you were a 'closet commie', isn't that insane!! I'd recommend learning that we're just not going to produce anything good in this particular election process at this time. at least you've definitely been up to the challenge & put up the good fight for a long time. I still can't understand people speaking the insults over little differences of opinion. good luck if I don't see you here any more.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#419. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#374)
Didn't you see the sign? Stop feeding the animals! ;-)
I just came back from the McCain HQ here in my Hummer with yellow ribbons on it and gave the campaign TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS in twenties and intend to do it tomorrow and every day after that until he wins.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#420. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#404)
God Bless George Bush.
#421. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#404)
God Bless George Bush.
#422. To: robin, cristine (#348)
Don't run off robin. I feel your pain, but among several things wrong with cristine's panicking is that you can't tell without going to a lot of trouble if whether all your bozo's are still active posters. I can tell that 4 or 5 of mine still are because I see them being replied to. But there's another handful that I think may have quit posting, but can't tell for sure. Just suggestions, but I'm watching a lot more Comedy Channel and less news/talk, and trying to laugh at potential bozos .... that or just plain ignore them.
Since I already explained although I just started using bozo and have more than 10 on bozo, that means I'll be off then. There are 60-80 unique posters a day on this forum, 14 didn't seem that many when it allowed me to have a pleasant experience.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#423. To: James Deffenbach (#355)
I made the casual statement that safeguarding the 2A at the "expense of innocent lives" was not morally acceptable. For some reason, a few people here took wild exception to this, *apparently* advocating that murdering innocent people was an acceptable cost to getting some pro-2A laws passed. Assuming these people weren't really that crazy, I started a Hypothetical Quiz thread where I attempted to make my case more vivid, thus the moral choice of actively killing a child vs fulling restoring the 2A. The real life potential for this hypothetical point is whether it is morally acceptable to vote for someone for president who promises to restore the 2A while also promising to start a war with Iran, admitting that it will mean 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands of innocent Iranians killed. Would it be morally acceptable to vote for him? I say no, and apparently in the eyes of a few here, that makes me a liberal gun grabbing nonsensical idiot. All I can say is, if it does, I certainly hope I never encounter any logical and sane pro-2A people like GW Bush in any future encounters.
Neil, could you please elaborate a bit on what would cause you to ask such a question? It seemed out of character to me.
#424. To: christine, robin (#333)
Damned if I understand your logic, cristine. "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" There are people I wouldn't let in my door, why should I let 'em into my cyberspace? You may be right, robin. I'm thinking about dropping out before christine tears off my epaulets.
I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#425. To: iconoclast (#424)
D.Q.
You may be right, robin. I'm thinking about dropping out before christine tears off my epaulets.
#426. To: TwentyTwelve (#421)
We need a living constitution TT one that can react and accomodate the needs of the jews in the US government.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#427. To: Jethro Tull (#370)
You're avoiding the question. Not that I'm surprised, however.
Would you vote for someone for president who promised to bomb the nation of Iran if he also promised to secure the national interests of the USA by restoring the 2A?
Neal, I no longer vote *because* I don't trust promises by politicians. Where in god's holy name are you going with this?
#428. To: iconoclast (#424)
She had 14 people bozo, which constitutes nearly 50% of the active posters, She wanted the option of adding up to 6 more, which christine thought would be run counter to debate and the intent of the forum. It's her home, she pays the rent. Deal.
You may be right, robin. I'm thinking about dropping out before christine tears off my epaulets.
#429. To: Pinguinite (#427)
How can I answer if I don't vote.
You're avoiding the question.
#430. To: swarthyguy (#364)
Personally, I'm not real enamored with career politicians. We got a little twerp in my town that kicked off his "career" by getting elected to city council when he was about eighteen. No sense mentioning his name, you'll never hear of it, anyhow.
The system puts Obama in such a sweet spot, why first of all, does he wish to change it anyway, when he's been the beneficiary of it to the extent that Obama, a one term Senator with barely a couple of years in the Senate gets to compete for the highest political office in the land.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#431. To: Jethro Tull (#429)
Don't be an idiot, JT. It's a simple hypothetical question about a simple, hypothetical candidate. Would you hypothetically vote for him, or not? It's a "yes" or a "no" question. This is not hard. For most people.
How can I answer if I don't vote.
#432. To: Pinguinite (#423)
You and the promises of politicians. These bastards are born with defective DNA - they open their mouths and lies tumble out. Your hypothetical is likewise defective. No sane man would accept their promise of no war in exchange for voluntary gun confiscation.
The real life potential for this hypothetical point is whether it is morally acceptable to vote for someone for president who promises to restore the 2A while also promising to start a war with Iran,
#433. To: Pinguinite (#431)
You're loopy.
Don't be an idiot, JT.
#434. To: Kamala, robin, cristine (#375)
Mark Nice trade, cristine. robin for Kamala.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out you closet commie.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#435. To: tom007 (#426)
We need a living constitution TT one that can react and accomodate the needs of the jews in the US government.
#436. To: iconoclast (#434)
Bozo him, dude. You have 10 to work with.
#437. To: iconoclast, Kamala, christine (#434)
robin for Kamala. If that's how it works, we'd better unload you while we can still fool the market...Kamala's one of my favorite knowledge brokers on 4um !
Nice trade, cristine.
#438. To: Pinguinite, Jethro Tull (#431)
Is this the 'shoot the girl / disarm America' straw man thingy still ?
Don't be an idiot, JT. It's a simple hypothetical question about a simple, hypothetical candidate. Would you hypothetically vote for him, or not? It's a "yes" or a "no" question. This is not hard. For most people.
#439. To: FOH (#437)
He saves me $30 a month. I bagged my Wall St Journal subscription because of his econ news.
Kamala's one of my favorite knowledge brokers on 4um !
#440. To: Jethro Tull, Kamala (#439)
He saves me $30 a month. I bagged my Wall St Journal subscription because of his econ news. LOLOL! The guy should get a Christmas card from you once in awhile. I know people that come to 4um specifically to track his financial posts...
Kamala's one of my favorite knowledge brokers on 4um !
#441. To: FOH (#438) (Edited)
Yeah, Neil is giving me the option of either dismembering a live newborn in order to save our 2nd A, or accepting an Obama promise for global peace.
#442. To: Jethro Tull (#441)
How's that going ?
Yeah, Neal is giving me the option of either dismembering a live newborn in order to save our 2nd A, or accepting an Obama promise for global peace.
#443. To: Jethro Tull (#441)
well, I guess you're in with Ronald Reagan then. he wouldn't answer hypothetical questions from journalists.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#444. To: FOH (#442)
Obama is a liar.
#445. To: Jethro Tull, Pinguinite (#441)
Yeah, Neal is giving me the option of either dismembering a live newborn in order to save our 2nd A, or accepting an Obama promise for global peace. Anyone that gives up liberty for "safety", deserves neither, and will get neither.
God is always good!
#446. To: Jethro Tull (#444)
I find it instructive watching those who believe him (or want desperately to) for whatever reason...
Obama is a liar.
#447. To: Red Jones (#443)
He actually played the media well, other than that, in retrospect, he was AmeriKan business as usual.
#448. To: RickyJ (#445)
How is the Baldwin research going ?
#449. To: RickyJ (#445)
Ben Franklin said something similar, I believe.
#450. To: christine (#333) (Edited)
Christine, I don't get the logic behind this. I believe that you were complaining that people are arguing in too strong terms, as in trading personal insults. In my view, the 'filter' is a most efficient and elegant way of dealing with people who don't deserve to be heard. It surely beats the 'moderator' banning people or deleting questionable posts. It also reduces tensions rather than exacerbate them. There are individuals who, unable to defend their views, are constantly calling their 'opponents' all kinds of 'names' or attaching supposedly unflattering labels to their names. There may be more than 10 such characters at this site or, as the site grows, their number may increase. Why should everyone be forced to only ban the top 10 when there are 20 or 50 individuals that happen to be annoying. Who, pray tell, is hurt if I (it's a generic 'I') can't stand 14 members and love everybody else? Why should I be forced to endure the nonsense or the crap that these losers are throwing at me (it's a generic 'me') as the price I must pay in order to enjoy my interaction with everyone else? I only have 3 members on 'bozo' and I had zero until a couple of months ago. I don't miss them and, I hope, they don't miss me interacting with them. No one is harmed because I don't want to hear from these worthless losers (others may see them as worthy wise people but they look like worthless, vulgar, boring losers to me). Because I have them on 'filter' I don't need to be aggravated by their remarks and, because they know I have them on 'filter', I assume that they don't bother with personal attacks. No one is hurt and there is less tension and fewer useless personal attacks. To conclude, I think that you should expand the number of possible bozos to infinity, rather than reduce it from 20 to 10.
I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#451. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#450)
How ironic that you should start off this way...
Frankly, I don't get the logic behind this.
#452. To: FOH (#451)
You got me. I am guilty. I shall edit 'frankly' out. :))) Thank you, friend.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#453. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#450)
You Marxist Establishment lackeys thought you had Obama4um.com up and running, didn't you? Had it pretty good using 4um to propagandize from, didn't you ??
Why should I be forced to endure the nonsense or the crap that these losers are throwing at me (it's a generic 'me') as the price I must pay in order to enjoy my interaction with everyone else?
#454. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#452)
Not on your best day.
Thank you, friend.
#455. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#450)
Maybe she should set it to a thousand. Just to be safe.
#456. To: FOH (#448)
I haven't had a lot of time to look at him yet. What I have heard of him at Ron Paul forums though sounds really good. I will probably vote for him, maybe even campaign for him after more research. Not that it really matters though, I doubt he will even be on my ballot in GA. The elite are secure knowing only one of their sock puppets will win. If the vote for some reason didn't go their way they would just fix it. So the election show is just that, a show.
How is the Baldwin research going ?
God is always good!
#457. To: FOH (#454)
There can only be one 'best day' in one's life. Then there is one 'second best' day... and so forth. It's unlikely that today is my best day but, what makes like interesting is that I don't know if I already had my best day.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#458. To: Old Friend (#455)
I like 'infinity'. Infinity is a round number and round is good. 10... is such an arbitrary thing. It's not even a prime.
Maybe she should set it to a thousand. Just to be safe.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#459. To: RickyJ (#456)
At the very least, the process of getting him on your ballot and campaigning for him will serve to awaken a few more people before it's too late to even have choices left...imo
#460. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#458)
Infinity would be good. Or how about a reverse bozo filter. You pick the people that you can see.
#461. To: Jethro Tull (#449)
I know someone did. Neil seems to think that Obama is truthful when he says he will not bomb Iran. Why I do not know. Obama was not even truthful about when his parents got married. To me it is clear why Obama has been chosen to run, to cause more racial unrest in this nation. Maybe Neil can't see that being down in Ecuador as easy as we can in the USA.
Ben Franklin said something similar, I believe.
God is always good!
#462. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#450)
This would be the Os. The ones who shut down valid debate via personal censorship. You might have a point w/the infinite # of bozos since socialism isn't defensible.
There are individuals who, unable to defend their views
#463. To: Old Friend (#460)
You mean... like an address book... I don't think so. In my view, everyone is a wonderful and interesting person unless they disqualify themselves.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#464. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#463)
Our government has the constitution on bozo. That is the problem.
#465. To: Jethro Tull (#462)
I can not speak for others but the 3 that I filtered out distinguished themselves as exceedingly and aggressively vulgar and completely incapable of promoting or defending their views, whatever their views were.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#466. To: Old Friend (#464)
Including WTP...we have to flood their filter.
Our government has the constitution on bozo. That is the problem.
#467. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#465)
That's what the bozo is for. The problem of abuse enters when, after a civil exchange, and one side loses on points, the opponents bozo # blips up by 2,3 or 4. That is an intentional effort to demoralize posters who offer solid contributions. Not saying anyone in particular did this, but it was a tactic that was being used more and more frequently.
#468. To: Jethro Tull (#467)
I wouldn't mind if everyone bozoed me. Doesn't bother me in the least. Lurkers can still see every post.
God is always good!
#469. To: RickyJ (#468)
Yep.
#470. To: Jethro Tull (#467)
Sure, I can understand how this can be unpleasant but... if someone does not wish to hear what you have to say... what can you do? Should they be forced to listen?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#471. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#470)
Of course I can understand, but when non offensive posters become the subject of spontaneous bozo dumps, valid debate suffers.
#472. To: James Deffenbach (#377)
disgusting elites! well said, JD!
What do you suspect would lead the moron to believe that it is any of his business what guns other people have or don't have? If he doesn't want any guns he shouldn't have any and if he doesn't like them at all then the people who guard the goofy eff shouldn't have any either. I am so tired of politicians and people like Rosie O'Donnell who think that peons shouldn't have any weapons but it is fine for people to protect them with those evil guns.
#473. To: Original_Intent (#256)
I've given up on the local level. They will wake up when the depression enters their lives (or martial law). I don't have any sympathy for people who are either too dumb to see what's happening or so wrapped up in their own little lives that they can't/won't see out. I did my thing and now I'm done. Even most of the people in the Ron Paul meetup group quit when Paul didn't make a great showing. They actually withdrew their names from the group - like they were ashamed of it. Many of them were just there to keep an eye on the group, not to support Ron Paul.
Push at the local level and begin working from the bottom up. By getting our own local areas back under our control it builds our base and our power
#474. To: ratcat (#473)
I agree that many, even most, are unwilling to look or know. Of course many have been dumbed down, and do not even know what they have lost. That is why I say wake up those that we can and don't worry about the Sheep. Sheeple will behave as they are - Sheep. As for the "mind numbed robots": No doubt some were Freeptards and Dildoeheads who were keeping watch on the heretics. They are PsyOp programmed morons and as such are fashioning their own nooses. No doubt some were also CoIntelPro type provocateurs and snitches. Our task is not an easy one but it is that or slavery and eventual liquidation.
"...They actually withdrew their names from the group - like they were ashamed of it. Many of them were just there to keep an eye on the group, not to support Ron Paul."
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
#475. To: Jethro Tull (#432)
You mean, the "promise" of gun confiscation, right? Apparently Cain is giving an *honest* promise that we will continue the Iraq occupation throughout his administration, while Obama is lying when he promises the opposite. What's wrong with voting for a candidate who's actually lying about confiscating guns? But of course this gets away from the whole point I'm trying to make, as that's based on the premise that we *know* what they are going to do regardless of what they promise. Would you vote for someone who you know is going to start a war with Iran AND restore the 2A? Inquiring minds want to see you not duck this question any further.
You and the promises of politicians. These bastards are born with defective DNA - they open their mouths and lies tumble out. Your hypothetical is likewise defective. No sane man would accept their promise of no war in exchange for voluntary gun confiscation.
#476. To: Red Jones (#443)
He answered one hypothetical question. Blew the little girl's head off in that one.
well, I guess you're in with Ronald Reagan then. he wouldn't answer hypothetical questions from journalists.
#477. To: Jethro Tull, RickyJ (#449)
I'm pretty sure Ol' Ben Franklin meant that anyone who gives up *their own* safety for their own liberty deserved neither, not someone else's safety. Or in the context of my statement, giving up other people's innocent lives for the sake of our own liberty. Not applicable here.
#478. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, christine (#450)
I've hesitated to give my own opinion on this decision because I don't want who I am to give my opinion more weight than it should. My opinion should have no more weight than any other member. This is christine's forum and it's purely her decision, and I purposely avoided giving my opinion prior as it was not asked of me. Having said that, I disagree with the decision to cut the bozo count. One important question is how many people had more than 10 entries on their bozo list. I know of only one, but perhaps there were more. If there was only one, then this action can be construed as an action only against that one person. Was there more than one? Was that question asked before the decision was made? The suggestion that the bozo system is being abused by people who don't want to be accountable is nonsense. The reality is, as pointed out a few times, the discord that is here is not unique to 4um. Forums across the internet are experiencing the same phenomenon, and it has to do with the election season. That's the obvious trigger point. The bozo system has been in place here since day one and even earlier on LP and it was never seriously entertained as an abuse mechanism. That didn't happen until now, when the general election has all political forums in a tizzy. Coincidence? Absolutely not. The problem is NOT the bozo system. I think a small amount of thoughtfulness makes that obvious. Further, any concern that 4um is was being destroyed is also nonsense. It's not. As a meeting place to discuss differences, heated arguments bring more attention, not less. While certainly differing conditions will drive some people away, more and/or different people arrive to replace them. That's normal and healthy in any forum venue. I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed. Such "fix" changes can destablize things even more. Then again, if the result is more to christine's preferences, then the fix was appropriate. 4um should take any flavor that christine prefers, whether it be in content discussed, participants invited to post, or any other particular dimension. My humble 2c.
Who, pray tell, is hurt if I (it's a generic 'I') can't stand 14 members and love everybody else? Why should I be forced to endure the nonsense or the crap that these losers are throwing at me (it's a generic 'me') as the price I must pay in order to enjoy my interaction with everyone else?
#479. To: RickyJ (#461)
He may well bomb Iran. He may even launch all the nukes we have left in our arsenals at random countries throughout the world including the US. He may imprison all freedom loving people and order nuke waste dumped in all fresh water supplies. I don't know. The reason I and many others here prefer Obama over the other 2, a reason that has been broadcast over and over and over again but which somehow fails to take (not singling you out as the communication problem seems widespread) due to this phenomenon, is simply that all considered, Obama is less likely to do harm than Cain or Hill. That's it, as cleanly and concisely as I can possibly put it. I couldn't care less when his parents were married, and couldn't care less if Obama lied about the timing. I know you think he'll cause Rodney King style race riots everywhere. Maybe you're right, but I don't think so. Maybe Obama is a racist himself. I think David Duke is too, but I'd probably not care about that if he were in the running. It's not like the president can start ordering whites to the back of the buses. That's not going to happen. At least I don't think so.
Neil seems to think that Obama is truthful when he says he will not bomb Iran. Why I do not know.
Obama was not even truthful about when his parents got married. To me it is clear why Obama has been chosen to run, to cause more racial unrest in this nation.
#480. To: Jethro Tull (#462)
Complete and utter BS. It was never true in the past and it is not true now.
This would be the Os. The ones who shut down valid debate via personal censorship.
#481. To: Old Friend (#464)
Indeed!
Our government has the constitution on bozo. That is the problem.
#482. To: ratcat (#473)
Hate to say this, but the last time a depression hit, government nannyism when into hyperdrive. It is easy to lose that sympathy. I certainly did.
I've given up on the local level. They will wake up when the depression enters their lives (or martial law).
I don't have any sympathy for people who are either too dumb to see what's happening or so wrapped up in their own little lives that they can't/won't see out.
#483. To: Pinguinite, Jethro Tull, christine (#269)
So, by his own admission, I characterize JT as willing to murder innocent people to further his own personal interests. Since it is true that he also opposes Obama, then in so far as JT is concerned the statement "accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers" is certainly true, but it is certainly false to construe that as accusing *all* people who oppose Obama as being akin to murderers. That is false. Angle should know better than to make such a false insinuation. Neil, I'm sure you recall the story of William Tell. After Tell was given no choice but to split the apple on his son's head, the legend has it that Hermann Gessler asked why Tell had drawn two bolts before firing at the apple. You could have just as easily framed your question in such a way as to make JT appear noble, instead of attempting to corner him into a response that we'd expect from a murdering psycho. As a dedicated 2nd amendment activist I understand JT's and christine's passionate views on the issue very well, and that is why I came here. (And my reasons for being quiet lately have nothing to do with the 2nd amendment) If JT was forced to take an innocent life to save millions of others from more of "your tyranny", then trust me, he'd draw two "bolts", and the second (and possibly the first if it couldn't be fired to free the child and offer a chance of escape) would be for you. And, you or any other tyrant would never again have occasion to ask why we place such a high value on our right to keep and bear arms, or question our love for innocent children. We keep arms and suffer the abuse of those who will not take responsibility for their own freedom or the protection of their own children because tyrants could and likely would make us kill our loved ones if we lacked the means to prevent that. The difference between us and the Chinese though, is we can stop would be tyrants from ever issuing such edicts here, or make the price so high that it is as unthinkable to them as murdering an innocent child is to you, JT and me. If you mean to underscore that JT is more passionate in his rhetoric than most, then I'll agree with you. But, if you framed the question properly to illuminate the truth rather than paint an ugly and inaccurate picture of me, then I'd give you the same answer as JT. But, I wouldn't allow you to make my life's work as an activist appear to be the selfish quirk of a homicidal sociopath with a fondness for weapons and a callous disregard for the lives of our precious children.
Jethro Tull freely admitted and has never redacted nor denied, in spite of being given numerous opportunities to do so, that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights. The girl dies for the "greater good" he said.
#484. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
It was a stupid question to start with. No rights can be gained by killing innocents. Just like no rights can be taken away by not killing innocents. God given rights are just that, God given. Those who believe, that the racist bigot mental nut case, called Obama, would keep his word about not bombing Iran, are under clearly not thinking right.
God is always good!
#485. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
that is so very well reasoned and articulated. thank you.
#486. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
We've apparently moved on from this particular hypothetical. My point in what you responded to is that JT consistently failed to give an accounting of himself beyond what he stated at face value. You'll further note that what you responded to was in answer to a request to respond to a mischaracterization that was placed upon me, so of course I stand by my post all the more. There are a variety of answers to just about any hypothetical scenario that can carry moral weight, and they don't have to agree. In this particular case, it appears JT's equates a loss of the 2A with a death sentence. I can appreciate that point even though do not agree with the premise as I know of no other country that has a 2A and people there are basically okay and often doing even better. Ecuador has no 2A and I'm doing just fine! But since JT and others have such contempt for my illustration, if you continue reading this thread you'll see that I've presented one much more realistic -- a presidential candidate who would fully restore the 2A while starting a war with Iran. Please tell me if you think a question of whether to vote for him or not is also something that is unfair and impossible to answer soundly. JT apparently feels it is. JT, though he accuses others of evading debate via bozo, himself has refused to defend himself and justify his accusation of me for a statement I made in the past relating to this very subject. That is, in fact, the whole root of this hypothetical matter. I'm sorry but I must ask: Did you mean to characterize me as a tyrant?
And, you or any other tyrant would never again have occasion to ask
#487. To: Pinguinite (#486)
Badeye used to imply as much, but that was before he gave himself a hummer.
I'm sorry but I must ask: Did you mean to characterize me as a tyrant?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#488. To: RickyJ (#484)
Indeed, we retain God-given rights in spirit, even if they are taken away in practice. Yet when one's right to life is taken away, it is gone nonetheless. One element of my hypothetical is that it contrasts real life living and dying with the restoration of an abstract legality. Given the difference in nature between the two, that one is as real as can be and the other just ink and paper, I don't think there's any comparison.
God given rights are just that, God given.
#489. To: FormerLurker (#487)
Badeye used to imply as much, but that was before he gave himself a hummer. Badeye's lucky. I wish I had a hummer. Maybe he'll buy me one.
#490. To: Pinguinite (#479)
It's debatable whether ANY of the three stooges would be any less of a danger than the others. Clinton seems less of a hard-core leftist than Obama though, and I see her as a lesser threat than he would present. I certainly won't be voting for any of them however.
Obama is less likely to do harm than Cain or Hill. That's it, as cleanly and concisely as I can possibly put it.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#491. To: Pinguinite (#489)
I heard at one time he was giving them for free.
Maybe he'll buy me one.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#492. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
Well said.
#493. To: Pinguinite (#478)
I fully agree. Discussions where many views are expressed are interesting. Echo chambers are boring. I visit this forum for 2 reasons: to get some 'fringe' news (it's true) and to learn something new or check my own views against others by having my own views challenged and by me challenged theirs. A forum where discussions are like: 'yes', 'yes', 'me too', 'I agree with you', 'I agree with you more', 'we all agree more', 'yes, we are all so right' has no value. I suppose that when everyone acquires infinite wisdom then all discussions and debates cease and we all die in peace but, until then, we all have something to learn.
I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#494. To: nolu_chan (#381)
Thanks, that is interesting and good to know. Not that their position cant change, but that they have ruled on the matter.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#495. To: James Deffenbach, HOUNDDAWG (#483)
Bump to this excellent well-reasoned analysis. Geez, HOUNDDAWG, you've cetainly earned your respect around here with posts like that.
#496. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
You and your 2nd Amendment haven't done much to prevent our current tyrants from issuing edicts that have led to the murder of thousands of innocent children in Iraq.
The difference between us and the Chinese though, is we can stop would be tyrants from ever issuing such edicts here, or make the price so high that it is as unthinkable to them as murdering an innocent child is to you, JT and me.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#497. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483) (Edited)
Yes, and our precious bodily fluids too. (Don't we all hate fluoridation?) In preparation for the W Tell challenge, I did a little bit of plinking over the weekend. I was pleasantly surprised to note that I was able to take a pencil's eraser from 30 yards, 5 out 5. Then I ran out of pencils. By the way, I just read somewhere that Truman was the least popular president ever, at 22%. He was disliked because some IRS corruption issues, messing up the Korean war and for trying to nationalize the steel industry. No one seemed to care one bit about his incinerating or baking thousands of little Japanese babies, and their grannies too. It's possible that his popularity increased after that.
But, I wouldn't allow you to make my life's work as an activist appear to be the selfish quirk of a homicidal sociopath with a fondness for weapons and a callous disregard for the lives of our precious children.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#498. To: Jethro Tull (#428)
People on the bozo aren't debaters, they're tiresome and/or offensive boors.
She wanted the option of adding up to 6 more, which christine thought would be run counter to debate and the intent of the forum.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#499. To: Jethro Tull (#439)
You're a capitalist pig and a tightwad!
He saves me $30 a month. I bagged my Wall St Journal subscription because of his econ news.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#500. To: Jethro Tull (#441)
LOL!
Yeah, Neil is giving me the option of either dismembering a live newborn in order to save our 2nd A, or accepting an Obama promise for global peace.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#501. To: iconoclast (#498)
That's exactly what you are. I won't bozo you though. You have done that all by yourself.
People on the bozo aren't debaters, they're tiresome and/or offensive boors.
God is always good!
#502. To: aristeides (#496) (Edited)
Then give them your guns. They'll be so grateful that they promise not to unlawfully do to you what they're unlawfully doing to Iraq. BTW, BO agrees with the expansion of the ME conflict, so why would you be vocally supporting him if that position is "murdering ... thousands of innocent children in Iraq"? He promises "less murdering"? C'mon. Obama responded: “Yes. I think that’s what we need. I think we need more troops there, I think we need to do a better job of reconstruction there. I think we have to be focused on Afghanistan. It is one of the reasons that I was opposed to the war in Iraq in the first place... And we’re also going to have to address the situation in Pakistan, where we now have, in the federated areas, Al Qaeda and the Taliban setting up bases there.” The last response demonstrates most clearly that Obama is not an “antiwar” candidate in any genuine sense of the term. He wants (some) US troops out of Iraq, not to lessen the slaughter of the Iraqi people—as well as casualties among American soldiers—but to shift the scene of battle to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria or some other country, whose people will be targeted in the interests of American imperialism. " You and your 2nd Amendment haven't done much to prevent our current tyrants from issuing edicts that have led to the murder of thousands of innocent children in Iraq.
" The final foreign policy question was on Afghanistan. Russert asked Obama directly, “Would you, as president, be willing to have a military surge in Afghanistan in order to, once and for all, eliminate the Taliban?”
#503. To: Jethro Tull (#449)
Ole Ben also said this: "In wine there is wisdom,Ben Franklin said something similar, I believe.
in beer there is freedom,
in water there is bacteria."
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#504. To: christine (#333)
Christine, after a sleepless night of deep thinking I was able to produce this brilliant solution. It's not a compromise, it's in fact an improvement over what you have now. 1 - Allow as many bozos as registered members at the site or maybe have a limit of 50 or 100. This way, those bozoed are given a second, third, even a fourth chance to redeem themselves and you don't make it too hard for those who are annoyed by some foul-mouthed primadonnas to keep them at a safe distance. What do you think. I believe that it's a good solution. Maybe Hillary should hire me as a consultant because she's been into solutions lately.
I've incorporated my compromise solution to the bozo filter debate. The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.
2 - Have all bozos expire after 30 or 60 or 300 days.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#505. To: James Deffenbach (#377)
Tell me you wouldn't like to have a TV bozo option for Ms. O'Donnell. ;-)
I am so tired of politicians and people like Rosie O'Donnell who think that peons shouldn't have any weapons but it is fine for people to protect them with those evil guns.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#506. To: Pinguinite, cristine (#478)
Effectively, cristine is lengthening her own bozo list to infinity.
I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed. Such "fix" changes can destablize things even more.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#507. To: iconoclast (#505)
What's the difference between Rosie and Rosanne? I am never sure which is which. Who is the fat one?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#508. To: Pinguinite, christine, Jethro Tull (#486)
There are a variety of answers to just about any hypothetical scenario that can carry moral weight, and they don't have to agree. In this particular case, it appears JT's equates a loss of the 2A with a death sentence. I can appreciate that point even though do not agree with the premise as I know of no other country that has a 2A and people there are basically okay and often doing even better. Ecuador has no 2A and I'm doing just fine! But since JT and others have such contempt for my illustration, if you continue reading this thread you'll see that I've presented one much more realistic -- a presidential candidate who would fully restore the 2A while starting a war with Iran. Please tell me if you think a question of whether to vote for him or not is also something that is unfair and impossible to answer soundly. JT apparently feels it is. JT, though he accuses others of evading debate via bozo, himself has refused to defend himself and justify his accusation of me for a statement I made in the past relating to this very subject. That is, in fact, the whole root of this hypothetical matter. And, you or any other tyrant would never again have occasion to ask I'm sorry but I must ask: Did you mean to characterize me as a tyrant? Let me answer the last one first; of course not. I should have put "you" in quotation marks to make it clear that you were only the hypothetical tyrant and I was intentionally moving you out of your comfort zone while turning the virtual tables for reasons that require no explanation. It was easy for me to do it to you and it could easily cause hard feelings had we not cleared it up immediately. Right? In all of this mis-characterization I think it's worth mentioning that JT served and retired honorably from a career as a NYPD street cop. I'm betting that he went out for that because his desire to protect people was stronger than the urge to shoot some darkies. In fact AFAIK he never did that while on the job, but I'd bet that he did help many people and jail some pretty malo hombres in his time on the job. If I went the distance and retired from NYPD I'd probably resent anyone asking if or implying that I'm a mentally disordered crim, too, Neil. He may display a certain confidence when drawing the line in the sand (and failing to deny the charges) but that's probably because the feds can't afford to piss off the City cops who are the true first line of defense against all the federal agencies in La Manzana Grande. And, the last thing the feds would do is use an honorably retired NYPD officer as the target/victim in one of the feds' famous media show trials, and JT is used to getting the benefit of the doubt from everyone. So, let's assume that he's a stable, healthy, well adjusted law abiding citizen with a high regard for human life and dignity and respect for the rights of all who reciprocate. Unless he robs a bank (or worse, parks in the US Attorney's or some ART 3 judge's spot) they ain't gonna hassle him when he pokes a finger in the feds' elliptical eye. So, he is privileged to a certain degree to speak frankly and to say things that I wouldn't say, because the media could more readily vilify me than him for the purpose of a criminal trial. (How old were you when DAWG first felt you up?" "I was twelve, and I wasn't the first, either! He goosed my sister years before!") You may have also noticed that each time we tried to be unrealistically optimistic about Ron Paul's chances he'd drop a big brown floater in our WHEATIES, too. He just can't deceive himself for even a moment's worth of feeling good, and he won't let me or others get away with it, either. However irritating that may have been, he was right every time. And, if he sees Barry Obama as another hand picked functionary of the slave masters or perhaps even worse because the puppet masters now feel it payback time and whites are going to be put down and held down until the last American lowers the flag and turns off the Coleman lanterns, then chances are he's right about that, too. Is the truth any less true simply because we cannot deal with it? I'll certainly concede (but not for JT-not my place to do that) that I believe that JT has mis-characterized others including you, and I can say this because I've also done this. This is one of the reasons I don't play here now. The acrimony and "win at any cost no matter what I gotta say about your Mama" tone of debate at 4 is just too ruff for me now. (If others enjoy it or are simply younger and healthier and don't take things as personally as I then the problem is my incompatibility, and I made the logical choice to stop crossing swords with objectionable members and to leave the site to those who still enjoy it and benefit from the talk wrestling) Remember that America now enjoys the distinction of being the only English speaking country (but one of several Spanish speaking countries) where the WWF is regarded as a legit sports franchise/corporation. It's not my way to cross swords with vicious assholes, and given a choice between civil debate and LF/TOS-style blood matches I'd opt for the former every time. And, so would you and JT. I know this because when things got testy between me and him or you and I, neither of you savaged me because there was and is a measure of mutual respect between us. And, how do I know this? The same way a sleeping DAWG knows if he's been tripped over or if he's been kicked. And there's really nothing mysterious about the vicious rancor here or elsewhere on the net. it's a natural follow through for too many immature and/or "dull normals" once they're wounded, and they quickly lose respect for their perceived detractors. And, in the absence of hall monitors they often regress.... But, it can be repaired with apologies and resolutions if that matters to you and JT. Both of you are respected here and both of you smart when someone tries to wound you, even if they aren't all that gifted and miss their mark. It's the very thought that someone, ANYONE would even try that hurts JT, you, chris and me. This is the down side to being intelligent, perceptive people. JT goes the extra distance to maintain his patriot bone fides, probably because he was a cop in the agency that's THE RAND CORP's favorite cop corps. Wouldn't that explain a lot of his seemingly quick and pointed responses? The fact is, he's done a yeoman's job of earning folk's respect as a patriot and as a defender of the innocent against those who would harm us and them. No one seriously accuses him of being a govt plant and he's unaccustomed to being accused of having psycho tendencies, too. Cops who are "out of plumb" seldom go the distance. The stress level provides too many opportunities to lose it. On that point he deserves the benefit of any doubt no matter how he replied (or failed to respond) to the blunt interrogatory you employed. (No need to remind me that this wasn't the first insult, and you feel that it was a response not a first strike. I'm aware of this, too) Now, let's talk about you, shall we? In my view you're a great human being with a deep compassion and sensitivity for others, and that speaks very well of you. And, if you believe in the Creator and the Bible, well, I'd say that your name is probably on the goodie list. Your optimism and ability to look for the good in people (no one is all good or all bad, except the Clintons and the Bushes of course) seems to serve you well, and I accept and admire that. I crossed swords with you a few times and once I "got where you're coming from" I realized that we won't agree on some things, and I don't insult your intelligence by trying to "convert you". And I try to avoid mis-characterizing you for two reasons: First, you're a real asset to this website as a software engineer and troubleshooter; And, I'm far more certain of what is kind than I am of what is true. It would be really great if 4um could exemplify civil debate by persons who span the spectrum. And, since you and JT pretty well meet that definition (at least the spectrum at 4) and you both are very fond of christine, I'd like to see you two rise to the occasion and look for the positive attributes in each other for her sake, and for the betterment and furtherance of the mission of this website. And, there will never be a time when America and the world will need good men to find their common ground and stand together more. Remember, if a recognizable percentage of Americans, ex-pats and foreign victims of American imperialism ever get on the same harmonic frequency, we can turn the tide and send the lizards and their private security forces scurrying for their island fortress retreats. (Some disagree with that. Despite the absence of any historical precedent either way, some are sure that I'm wrong and they're right. And, if I challenge them they whip out their love muscles for a size comparison to "settle it like real men". This is my incompatibility problem since others don't seem to mind, so, it's their world and I'm not visiting for the moment) And if we fail to recognize that chaos is part of the master plan and ass bite each other, then 4um will become another political themed mosh pit by default. Everyone is depressed because the world is melting down in front of our very eyes, and the resulting anxiety only benefits those who rely on the chaos. Do you believe it's possible to be gentle with others as a first order of business here and then see if we can build on that? Or, should I just go and play with my dolls and let my nanny put in my Pollyanna curls so, I'll look real purty when the nuclear blast vaporizes me at the speed of light?
We've apparently moved on from this particular hypothetical. My point in what you responded to is that JT consistently failed to give an accounting of himself beyond what he stated at face value. You'll further note that what you responded to was in answer to a request to respond to a mischaracterization that was placed upon me, so of course I stand by my post all the more.
#509. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#507)
Rosanne occasionally says something funny. I would bozo Rosie, not Rosanne. See, I'm not totally intolerant.
What's the difference between Rosie and Rosanne?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#510. To: HOUNDDAWG (#508)
I'm sure the number that have bozo'ed you is small to non-existent, Dawg.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#511. To: iconoclast (#505)
As a matter of fact, I do have that option. I don't watch her. In fact I watch very little TV.
Tell me you wouldn't like to have a TV bozo option for Ms. O'Donnell. ;-)
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#512. To: James Deffenbach (#511)
But that way you're missing out on the cute, feisty little blond conservative. ;-) Before everybody starts romping on me, I catch snippets when I leave my smoking area and walk in on my wife watching it.
As a matter of fact, I do have that option. I don't watch her. In fact I watch very little TV.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#513. To: angle (#502)
He promises "less murdering"? C'mon. logic!
Then give them your guns. They'll be so grateful that they promise not to unlawfully do to you what they're unlawfully doing to Iraq. BTW, BO agrees with the expansion of the ME conflict, so why would you be vocally spporting him if that position is "murdering ... thousands of innocent children in Iraq"?
#514. To: karelian, BeAChooser, christine, FOH, Peppa, Dakmar, Neil McIver, all (#399)
BeAChooser was plenty worried about Saddam and his "camels of mass destruction."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#515. To: James Deffenbach (#514)
Kraphty debuls...
"The largest section of the course will be specialised to focus on using the explosive material in the body, in motorcycle, in cars, and in camels". Camels will be "provided by the Directory of General Military Intelligence".
#516. To: James Deffenbach (#514)
Saddam planned to deploy 'camels of mass destruction' LOL, funny!
BeAChooser was plenty worried about Saddam and his "camels of mass destruction."
#517. To: Pinguinite (#423)
I think you could have saved yourself a lot of grief if you had just remembered the simple fact that POLITICIANS LIE and it wouldn't have made any difference if one of the three whackjobs left in the running made any such promise. Their lips move, they lie. The only one running who would have made any attempt to do away with the unconstitutional gun laws on the books, at least at the level he would have anything to say about, would have been Ron Paul. And of course he isn't a warmonger and wouldn't have been itching to go slay imaginary dragons somewhere in a land beyond the sea (Puff the Magic Dragon).
The real life potential for this hypothetical point is whether it is morally acceptable to vote for someone for president who promises to restore the 2A while also promising to start a war with Iran, admitting that it will mean 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands of innocent Iranians killed. Would it be morally acceptable to vote for him?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#518. To: christine (#333)
I've decided to cut my well reasoned posts proportionately over the course of the next year.
The total number of slots is now 10 rather than 20. I hope that's a decision that everyone can live with, but if not, I understand.
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash. -- Winston Churchill
#519. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, robin, iconoclast, Jethro Tull, Pinguinite (#504)
2 - Have all bozos expire after 30 or 60 or 300 days. good ideas. can #2 be incorporated? i want everyone to be assured that what i am trying to do is in the best interest of 4um and i want to be as fair as possible. of course, i realize no matter what i do, i'm not going to make everyone happy.
1 - Allow as many bozos as registered members at the site or maybe have a limit of 50 or 100.
#520. To: James Deffenbach, christine, cynicom (#517)
We must take back our birthright from the criminals who are stealing it. I'm feeling Ron Paul is ready for another push forward. Who else? If not now, when?
The only one running who would have made any attempt to do away with the unconstitutional gun laws on the books, at least at the level he would have anything to say about, would have been Ron Paul.
#521. To: christine (#472)
Thank you, Christine.
disgusting elites! well said, JD!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#522. To: nolu_chan (#381)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#523. To: christine (#519)
And of course the fact that the Obamacons themselves are lying deceiving Marxist white guilter RATs which no filter can fix...=)
#524. To: christine (#519)
I found I had quite a few old non-posting names on my filter. The reduction to 10 worked out fine for me...
#525. To: angle (#520)
Not remotely. When he gave a soft toss up for one of the Establishment lackeys, the racist Marxist One Worlder, it confirmed how effed we all are...
I'm feeling Ron Paul is ready for another push forward.
#526. To: FOH (#525)
Try to be a bit more communicative when you post. Specifically what did you just say?
#527. To: All (#526)
GOP seeks order to primary chaos (wants nomination rules change this year)
#528. To: angle (#526)
When he gave a soft toss up for one of the Establishment lackeys, the racist Marxist One Worlder, it confirmed how effed we all are... Let's try it this way: When Ron Paul said that BHO, the CFR's lightning rod, was the lesser of three evils, it confirmed that we're totally screwed here in America...
Try to be a bit more communicative when you post. Specifically what did you just say?
#529. To: angle, HOUNDDAWG (#495)
Yes indeed, it was a good post.
Bump to this excellent well-reasoned analysis. Geez, HOUNDDAWG, you've cetainly earned your respect around here with posts like that.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#530. To: angle (#526)
Not remotely. When he gave a soft toss up for one of the Establishment lackeys, the racist Marxist One Worlder, it confirmed how effed we all are... he expressed a lack of confidence in Ron Paul's ability to move forward due to Paul saying that Obama was slightly better than the other 2 major candidates. I agree with him, we're effed up he says.
I'm feeling Ron Paul is ready for another push forward.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#531. To: Christine (#523)
Here's an example of what we were talking about. This is pure drivel delivered with the specific intent to harass other members into silence. Nothing more. This is the sort of nonsense that robin was bozoing. Not rational discussion. I don't see the harm in her choosing not to participate in this sort of childish tactic.
And of course the fact that the Obamacons themselves are lying deceiving Marxist white guilter RATs which no filter can fix...=)
.
#532. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#507)
Who is the fat one? That is like being given the examples of Maxine Waters and Bella Abzug and asking which is the ugly one.
What's the difference between Rosie and Rosanne? I am never sure which is which.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#533. To: ... (#531)
#534. To: ... (#531)
I agree. and our mass media has contributed to the normalization of this type of political discourse. our people's natural propensity to mediocrity and laziness has sure helped also.
This is pure drivel delivered with the specific intent to harass other members into silence. Nothing more
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#535. To: FOH (#533) (Edited)
Mve along little boy. The adults are talking here. Come back when you learn to do something besides toss out silly insults.
.
#536. To: Red Jones (#534)
That was the discussion last night. Go pull up some the the FOH posts. Pull up fifty or so. He's incapable of making a rational argument. The only thing he can do is insult or disrupt as he did above. So the argument is: What good is he? And why should people be denied the ability to bozo this sort of non-content?
I agree. and our mass media has contributed to the normalization of this type of political discourse. our people's natural propensity to mediocrity and laziness has sure helped also.
.
#537. To: ... (#536)
Who's stopping you from filtering him?
#538. To: ... (#531)
I agree with you on this. The bozo filter was very useful in elimintating the trash talking posters. It would seem that reducing the number of bozo slots is a pretty dumb idea if your intent in to bring back a bit of civility to the forum. I'd personally rather not participate than be exposed to the garbage posts.
This is the sort of nonsense that robin was bozoing. Not rational discussion. I don't see the harm in her choosing not to participate in this sort of childish tactic.
#539. To: Arete (#538)
And the intent no doubt is to take advantage of such understandable feelings.
I'd personally rather not participate than be exposed to the garbage posts.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#540. To: ... (#536) (Edited)
Hold on there triple dots. You might use the bozo to demoralize, so stop the BS.
#541. To: iconoclast (#402)
Have you ever heard her say two words? Except maybe something in Johnnie's ear like "don't get to close him, he's not our kind". Every time that prissy bitch is on TV, her nose is stuck high in the air. I couldn't stand her from the moment I saw her. Even Nancy Reagan and Hillary Clinton were more likeable First Ladies. I wonder if Cindy thinks that she married "beneath" her. Even though Mad Mac comes from a family of admirals, he's still not blue blood "old money."
Yeah, and with rich, snotty, self-absorbed bitch smeared all over her.
#542. To: aristeides (#539)
Kinda makes a person wonder, doesn't it?
And the intent no doubt is to take advantage of such understandable feelings.
#543. To: HOUNDDAWG (#508)
Thanks for the honest take, Hound. As for JT's NYPD record, we all have records here of one type or another. I judge and am judged by what I post and that goes for all of us. I don't see a reasonably basis for having double standards for political opinions based on one's past real life experience. Ultimately, I don't know Hound. I don't know. We are what we are. I said before that it seems this election season happens to have the characteristics of bringing out differences in us we never would have guessed existed. It's like it's just the right concoction that would make freedom loving people sick when we thought ourselves immune to any poisons they could give. If that was planned intentionally by the PTB's then they planned well.
Do you believe it's possible to be gentle with others as a first order of business here and then see if we can build on that?
#544. To: christine (#519)
Certainly could be done but that's a software change, of course. It's a good idea.
2 - Have all bozos expire after 30 or 60 or 300 days.
#545. To: HOUNDDAWG (#508)
It's true. Political 'roid rage isn't by accident. Great post Dawg.
And if we fail to recognize that chaos is part of the master plan and ass bite each other, then 4um will become another political themed mosh pit by default.
#546. To: aristeides, arete, ..., christine (#539)
Read for yourself: I'm simply here to keep you busy, ... FOH posted on 2008-05-06 10:41:08 ET Christine, you think limiting the number of names allowed per poster will be an effective tool to discourage problems. I don't know, but this is a problem that needs more than limited filtering can solve.
Do you have an intelligent response or are you just going to continue to babble like this?
#547. To: Peppa (#545)
Perhaps a lesson you've learned on this thread.
It's true. Political 'roid rage isn't by accident.
#548. To: angle (#546)
Agreed. There are 2 tools handy to deal with posters like these. If one were exercised properly, the bozo filter would not be an issue.
Christine, you think limiting the number of names allowed per poster will be an effective tool to discourage problems. I don't know, but this is a problem that needs more than limited filtering can solve.
#549. To: angle, FOH (#546)
Oh, I believe you. I put FOH on bozo weeks ago, after he made a posting saying he intended to mock and ridicule. I asked myself why I should have to put up with that, and put him on bozo.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#550. To: angle (#546)
FOH is a perfect example of bozo bait. He's freely admitted that he is here for no other purpose than to harass people he disagrees with. Not debate them, but to intimidate them into silence with his Freeper tactics. Just make it too much bother to post your opinion here. He admitted it to me at the link you posted above and he admitted it to ari a few days back. And if anyone doubts this, call up fifty posts by the guy and count how many amount to a one line attack or a childish image. And the surprising thing is that this guy is one of the people who whined loudest to the mods about how many people had him on bozo.
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#551. To: Pinguinite (#547)
I'm sure there are lessons all round.
It's true. Political 'roid rage isn't by accident. Perhaps a lesson you've learned on this thread.
#552. To: ..., FOH (#550)
Enough to make one suspect that his plan all along was to provoke being bozoed, so that he could then complain about it and get the bozo system changed.
And the surprising thing is that this guy is one of the people who whined loudest to the mods about how many people had him on bozo.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#553. To: Peppa (#551)
I still don't trust you. Not one bit.
I'm sure there are lessons all round.
#554. To: aristeides (#552)
If that was the plan, it worked well.
Enough to make one suspect that his plan all along was to provoke being bozoed, so that he could then complain about it and get the bozo system changed.
#555. To: Pinguinite (#553)
No idea why.
I'm sure there are lessons all round. I still don't trust you. Not one bit.
#556. To: Peppa (#555)
Having done what you did, you couldn't possibly be that stupid, and feigned stupidity should be one obvious reason why I do not trust you. Everyone can see that. Or most, anyway.
No idea why.
#557. To: Pinguinite (#556)
Well, okay.. whatever. Neil, back on the gun thread, when you made the comment about the 2a, I said, wow. Then you stood behind it, and we had a civil talk until you decided I was a shill. I still don't know what that was about. Then, you twisted your argument into something rediculous, and I just got out of the way. If you find that suspicious, then, I can't help you. As for the privacy issue, I thought it had been addressed and have stated so. So, really, you can choose to believe anything you want to. Never had an issue with you before the post about the 2a thing.. If you have pent up issues with me, I'm clueleses about them. Okay? Moving on.
Having done what you did, you couldn't possibly be that stupid, and feigned stupidity should be one obvious reason why I do not trust you. Everyone can see that. Or most, anyway.
#558. To: Pinguinite (#556)
Good lord LWAN, that Ecuadorian climate must be getting to you. You've turned into a full blown head case.
#559. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#541)
She stikes me as "nouveau-riche". At any rate, I don't find her terribly attractive.
he's still not blue blood "old money."
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
#560. To: iconoclast (#559) (Edited)
The Wikipedia entry on James Willis Hensley (Cindy McCain's father) makes it sound as if he was a self- made man: Jim Hensley married the former Marguerite "Smitty" Johnson (b. 1919, d. 2006) [4] [7] on March 29, 1945 in Memphis, Tennessee while he was on leave from the USAAF.[4] They would have one child, Cindy Lou Hensley, born c. 1954.[8] Following his discharge in 1945, Hensley and his brother went back to work for Marley in his United Sales Company in Phoenix and United Distributors in Tucson. [3][2] In 1948, both brothers were prosecuted by the federal government and convicted of falsifying liquor records to conceal illegal distribution of whiskey against post-war rationing regulations.[9][5] Jim Hensley received a six-month suspended sentence while his brother received a year in federal prison.[9] In 1953, Jim Hensley and Marley were charged by federal prosecutors with falsifying liquor records.[9] Defended by future Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist, they were acquitted.[9][5] If he was blue-blooded, the Wikipedia entry would mention his parents, but it does not. Also, if he had been blue-blooded, I doubt if the feds would have prosecuted him.
Hensley and his older brother Eugene first began working in the liquor distribution business before World War II, being in the employ of Kemper Marley, Sr., an Arizona rancher who had become wealthy in the liquor distribution business in Phoenix and Tucson following the end of Prohibition. [3] Jim Hensley then served three years as an officer in the United States Army Air Forces during World War II.[2][4] He was a bombardier on B-17 Flying Fortresses.[5][6] On his thirteenth mission,[2] his plane was shot down over the English Channel;[5] in all his planes where shot down three times.[6]
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#561. To: angle, ..., jethro tull, christine, foh, rickyj, nobody222, peppa (#546)
I saw as many if not more insults and babbling on that thread by three dots than FOH. He's responding to Obamabots (once RPers) the way most of us are... With disbelief, frustration and outrage. FOH was clearly only being sarcastic when he said the above and you try to portray him literally to get him kicked off. You're an idiot! I'm getting really peeved at what is going on here. And I see it mostly from the democrats and Obamaphiles who've come out of the woodwork and retired to their true roosts. This place looks more like LP everyday.
I'm simply here to keep you busy, ...
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#562. To: IndieTX (#561) (Edited)
As I said, call up fifty posts by the guy and read them. Get me five that arn't one line direct insults and attacks. I bet you can't do it. If it was one post, what you say might have some merit. But it isn't one post, it's about 95% of the posts. And don't take my word for it, use the search function above and see for yourself. My point is that the guy does nothing but attack and insult - and his posting history can be seen to bear this out. So why shouldn't the guy be bozo'd? And given his behavior, which is there for all to review, why should he be the loudest whiner about the number of people who have him on bozo? If the guy is bothered by his bozo count, he should clean up his act instead of whining and sobbing to the mods about it. Which is what has been happening here for the past few days. Recall that all the problems of the last week stem from these guys sobbing to the mods about how many meanies have them on bozo.
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#563. To: IndieTX (#561) (Edited)
The big problem drawing me into the frey is a substitution for debate and discussion on the issue is the FReeperish attempt to dehumanize those of us supporting Barack Obama with name calling and baiting. This has turned into a pie fight as is a typical human response to this, and this is not doing the forum any good. Example: Using Pedophile as a source for part of an epithet for Obama supporters to redirect fire from the issue to do ad hominem attacks on people disagreed with is indeed very LP-like, and has no place here. All this does is drive off lurkers who have better things to do then watch food fights, and it increases polarization of the posting community. I've been doing this for over 13 years and way too hardened to feel the heat from petty ad hominem swipes at me. And I certainly can hold my own if I chose to return fire. I would rather discuss and debate the issues, but if you all want to continue to do a food fight complete with name calling and slander, have it your way. But frankly this is foolish and I respectfully a re-examination of how we all are doing business in here.
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#564. To: Ferret Mike (#563) (Edited)
I just use "Obamaphile" as the opposite of "Obamaphobe." Pedophile isn't the only word ending in -phile. I like movies, computers and books, and wouldn't get worked up if somebody calls me a cinephile, technophile, or bibliophile.
Using Pedophile as a source for part of an epithet for Obama supporters
#565. To: Jethro Tull (#558)
Oh don't go getting your panties all in a wad. If I don't trust Peppa, that's my business not yours, and since it's apparent bozo filter use is being discouraged (at your encouragement, I might add), it's obviously all the more expected that I give my opinions and people deal with them. And the weather is quite nice here. About 65 degrees and quite sunny most of today thank you very much. This morning was incredibly beautiful in fact. Ecuador is a great place to be.
#566. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#564)
The name was not coined in the nicest spirit. And it is still a tactic meant to replace debate on candidates and issues with a turning of the body of posters here into participants in an us v. them war. I suggest we all take a deep breath and calm down. We are adults and we can agree to disagree where we do and discuss things where it is interesting and engaging to do so without the rancor. I am here to tell you I have seen open, full spectrum of opinion forums work very well. And we have a smart, experienced and very capable body of people in this virtual community who can make this place work well as an open forum.
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#567. To: ... (#562) (Edited)
No, there was no problem. I repeat there was no problem. The forum system was functioning as it should. Rude, childish and insulting posters were put on bozo. You see, that is what is so strange about all this. Everything was working the way it was supposed to and now - it has been "fixed" to NOT work as well. Interesting, isn't it?
Recall that all the problems of the last week stem from these guys sobbing
#568. To: Arete (#567)
I agree. There's no need to change much. I have Peppa, ______ and LACUMO or LACUNO on the bozo and everything else is enjoyable. Even FOH don't bother me much. He's vulgar in a stupid way way, for sure, but he sometimes amuses me, which I could not say about the 3 I rejected. If Christine wants to make the bozos expire after a while, that should be fine, maybe making someone invisible forever is a bit too radical but I think that the number of possible bozo slots should be at least restored to what it was if not expanded.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#569. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#568)
That's sounds like a good way to handle it actually.
If Christine wants to make the bozos expire after a while, that should be fine ..
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#570. To: Pinguinite (#565)
Lord, break out the shawl....brrr...70s here in central Pennsylvania, USA. Hey, here's a hypothetical for you, and any other O who hasn't got me on bozo: Would Iran welcome a newly elected President Obama with a nuclear enrichment freeze or - more likely - by testing him by moving identifiable Iranian militia units into Basra province on a large scale?
And the weather is quite nice here. About 65 degrees and quite sunny most of today thank you very much
#571. To: Jethro Tull (#570)
Why do you care about what Iran is doing anyway? I am looking at the map and Iran is nowhere near our borders. Do you see Iran anywhere near our borders? On the other hand, the following nuclear powers are at or close to Iran's borders: Russia, Israel, China, Pakistan. And, right over the horizon: India, France, England. Did I miss any?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#572. To: Jethro Tull (#570)
How Iran Sees the US Primaries. Sounds like they'd like to negotiate.
But it's Obama's declared willingness to engage in "aggressive personal diplomacy" with the Iranian leadership that has generated the most interest among senior officials in Tehran, since this would mark a sea-change in Washington's approach. "Obama is a man of engagement, a man of negotiations," one Iranian official told TIME. Amir Mohebbian, an analyst close to Iranian conservative politicians, argues that "the mentality of Iranian decision makers is ready for that." He adds: "I think that the coming of Obama — maybe, maybe — helps to solve this problem, but it needs bravery, from both sides."
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#573. To: IndieTX (#561)
I hear you IndieTX, we're in a very confusing time. It's apparent this forum has a hard political left, right and an agnostic/libertarian. RPs platform was the glue that kept us together. With him gone it's mind blowing to me some can opt for a socialist, but it is what it is. As long as we can have it out in the arena of ideas and keep the argument somewhat civil, we'll have the only forum on the net that allows and encourages heated debate. I just hope the left doesn't flee when their tails get scorched :)
And I see it mostly from the democrats and Obamaphiles who've come out of the woodwork and retired to their true roosts.
#574. To: Pinguinite, a vast rightwing conspirator, ALL (#544)
alright, let's go ahead and do that. that takes care of bozos left by a member who has long left 4um, so i think that's a very good solution.
Certainly could be done but that's a software change, of course. It's a good idea.
#575. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#571)
I care b/c Obama and McLame are internationalists. McLame loves war, and while Obama is a novice he has surrounded himself with a stable of war horses. He also plans on redeploying troops from Iraq, where we got our asses kicked, to Afghanistan, where we will get our asses kicked. So to answer your question why I care about Iran, it's b/c whether inadvertently, or by design, Iran, with it's neighbors all beat to shit, will be the big boy on the block.
Why do you care about what Iran is doing anyway? I am looking at the map and Iran is nowhere near our borders.
#576. To: Jethro Tull (#575)
Which makes it all the more desirable to negotiate with her.
Iran, with it's neighbors all beat to shit, will be the big boy on the block.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#577. To: aristeides (#572)
It's quite possible.
#578. To: ghostdogtxn (#522)
Actually, yes. But looking that up didn't take much time. I just wouldn't want some unsuspecting person getting a fine or worse believing he had a valid legal argument which would hold up in court.
A lot of time on your hands, I see.
#579. To: IndieTX (#561)
Wait a damn minute here. FOH spams this forum incessantly. I portrayed him the way I see it. If he was "clearly only being sarcastic", it escaped my discernment. Three dots is also a distruptor in my eyes, but certainly not as blatant. If you have a point of view to share, calling me an idiot is not the most effective way to have a person view your input. You're not the only one getting peeved here. And if you bothered to read a few of my posts, you would know beyond a doubt that your insinuation that I'm a democrat or Obamaphile is false.
#580. To: Jethro Tull (#575)
Some of Iran's neighbors include: Russia, China, Israel, Pakistan. None of them was beat yet and some of them are getting stronger rather than weaker. I don't think even internationalists need to worry much about what's going on half a world away.
ran, with it's neighbors all beat to shit, will be the big boy on the block.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#581. To: Jethro Tull (#573) (Edited)
Same here, but it's equally mind boggling to me how some former Ron Paul supporters could back a warmongering tool of the neocons like McCain. I guess it's because there are lots of single issue voters around (Iraq/Iran for supporters of Obama, R2KBA or lower taxes for McCain). I refuse to vote for somebody who promises a little less of a warfare state abroad in exchange for a bigger welfare state at home, just as I'd never go for more wars abroad in exchange for a (slightly) smaller welfare state at home.
With him gone it's mind blowing to me some can opt for a socialist, but it is what it is
#582. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#581)
Who?
how some former Ron Paul supporters could back a warmongering tool of the neocons like McCain.
#583. To: angle (#582) (Edited)
A few popped up on the "Open letter to Obamaphobes" thread that vast started. I guess they aren't as vocal as the pro-Obama people.
#584. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#583)
Thank you. I'll check it out.
#585. To: Jethro Tull (#570)
Ummm.... that's not a hypothetical question. A hypothetical question usually presents some abstract circumstances and then asks what you would do in such a situation, not what someone else would do. What you ask is more of a theoretical question, and in theory, Iran would not change their nuke program plans no matter who was elected. In theory, neither Iranian hardliners that want a confrontation with the west nor the Iranians that want peace would change their tune.
Hey, here's a hypothetical for you
Would Iran welcome a newly elected President Obama with a nuclear enrichment freeze or - more likely - by testing him by moving identifiable Iranian militia units into Basra province on a large scale?
#586. To: iconoclast (#430)
C'mon, like Obie isn't?
career politicians.
#587. To: ... (#347)
Nope, still three...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#588. To: Mudboy Slim (#587) (Edited)
I'm not going to tell you how I know what your bozo count is, but I'm surprised at this lack you integrity from even someone like you. Mud, you are a bald faced liar. And I will remember this in all further dealings. Go check your bozo count and come back and tell me that it is less than three. I want to confirm that you are as dishonest as you seem here.
Nope, still three...MUD
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#589. To: ... (#588)
Nope. three it is, TripleDot.
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#590. To: RickyJ, christine, Pinguinite, angle, aristeides, a vast rightwing conspirator, iconoclast, James Deffenbach, Peppa, Jethro Tull (#484)
Thank you all for your comments. Mr. aristeides, While it's true that American gun ownership has served the nation well as a deterrent to foreign invasion (the Japanese considered and rejected the idea because of the 2nd amendment), a quick scan of gun and trade publications and websites will reveal that sadly, the majority of the writers and contributors are using the flag as a blindfold. And, too many accept govt propaganda (as relayed by the official stenos at FOX) at face value and many still believe (or refuse to admit error and admit otherwise) that we are keeping America safe by committing war crimes against other nations and people. The fact that we have a 2nd amendment right does not mean that we are still morally entitled to it. America is not the beacon of liberty we were taught to believe in as children, and through a slow but effective process (like water eroding granite) we have been fenced in and corrupted to conditions of intellectual bankruptcy and moral compromise. Because there is no historical precedent (the conquering of a truly free nation with psychological manipulation instead of cannon fire, and control of everything we see, read and hear (and we on the net can certainly hear footsteps) instead of concentration camps, it remains to be seen if the enemies of liberty can succeed. It is my belief that folks in other places who lost their freedoms long before us who scoff and attempt to shame and humiliate us are silent co-conspirators, and they cannot claim the moral high ground in their hope that the flame of liberty will be extinguished once and for all. Some would rather see America fall than to witness it's salvation by gun owners. But, with all of our problems, we'll never be ashamed to look those cowards in the eye.
#591. To: HOUNDDAWG (#590)
That's a keeper, Dawg. Wicked laws cannot be administered impartially - and that is exactly what gun control is: wicked. When a politician or anybody else supports gun control, it is good cause to be afraid of them because they probably have something else up their sleeve. If politicians aren't doing things to law-abiding citizens they shouldn't be, they have no reason in the world to be afraid of them.
It is my belief that folks in other places who lost their freedoms long before us who scoff and attempt to shame and humiliate us are silent co-conspirators
#592. To: Jethro Tull (#591)
It wasn't to long ago that the British police didn't even carry guns.
#593. To: Old Friend (#592)
It also wasn't long ago that Britain was a homogeneous nation. The birth nation of 'Free Trade' is now a multicultural wasteland. What Hitler couldn't destroy will bombings and blockades, will be taken down by from within by unfettered immigration.
#594. To: Jethro Tull (#593)
The hordes came after all.
#595. To: buckeye (#594)
Yep. They were invited, as they are here. The PTB have taken the principle of forced school busing and applied it to nations.
#596. To: Jethro Tull (#595)
It's no wonder they didn't want the John Birch society talking about Jewish influence.
#597. To: HOUNDDAWG (#590)
Outstanding post Dawg. I see gun-grabbers this way. They want us to forsake a right given to mankind. The right to self-defense. It's not theirs to take.
Some would rather see America fall than to witness it's salvation by gun owners.
#598. To: Peppa (#597)
The seminal gun grabbers are mainly intending to disarm the holdovers from the culture they've already obliterated in other ways.
#599. To: buckeye (#598)
And we know where this leads.
The seminal gun grabbers are mainly intending to disarm the holdovers from the culture they've already obliterated in other ways.
#600. To: Peppa (#599)
So far it's just been the tragic deaths of innocents, such as Mrs. Weaver and her son.
#601. To: Jethro Tull (#591)
And, there it is. I have nothing to add to that. Thanks, JT.
If politicians aren't doing things to law-abiding citizens they shouldn't be, they have no reason in the world to be afraid of them.
#602. To: Peppa (#597)
It's not theirs to take. Roger that. And to their cowardly collaborators I say, "It's not your right to forfeit for the rest of us".
I see gun-grabbers this way. They want us to forsake a right given to mankind. The right to self-defense.
#603. To: Old Friend (#592)
That's right. They now know that they're about 20 years behind us, as their former colonials riot and murder police and civilians alike as immigrant syndicates cultivate sophisticated networks that traffic in illegal weapons, mainly from former Warsaw Pact countries. (The eastern bloc also had strict gun laws and they have millions of illegal weapons for sale to prove it.) But, even when things were supposedly rosy in the UK they led the world in home invasions against homeowners who were known to be unarmed, (It's against the law to resist robberies or even sexual assaults, lest Brits think they have rights that govt and criminals are bound to respect like we, their missing link American cousins) and maiming with beer mugs kept re-constructive (plastic) surgeons in great demand then, and even forced a change to "less dangerous" beer mugs used in pubs. So, Brits were "more civilized" because their barroom brawlers blinded their weaker and less violent victims and left them resembling The Elephant Man, and the perps many of who are practiced in the art of destroying lives were secure in the knowledge that they wouldn't be shot for their trouble, and that they, the hairy knuckled goons ruled that country. And, in England the frustration of living under oppressive govt manifested in the form of the pathologically violent, British soccer fan. Where else in the world do whites riot for no good reason and in general "ape" the behavior of those "hot-blooded other people"? The effect of stripping Brits of their natural right to defense of life and property is, they're responding the way "equal" animals in over crowded cages do. Welcome to ANIMAL FARM, where some are more equal than others.
It wasn't to long ago that the British police didn't even carry guns.
#604. To: HOUNDDAWG (#603)
I don't believe that. Maybe against the law to own a gun and shoot them. But a lady being raped doesn't have to just sit there and say dammit I can't resist it's against the law.
It's against the law to resist robberies or even sexual assaults
#605. To: Old Friend (#604)
Maybe against the law to own a gun and shoot them. But a lady being raped doesn't have to just sit there and say dammit I can't resist it's against the law. "Here are the basic rules for self-defense in Britain: You are permitted to protect yourself with a briefcase, a handbag, or keys. You should shout “Call the Police” rather than “Help.” Bystanders are not to help. They have been taught to leave such matters to the professionals. If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault. A homeowner who discovered two robbers in his home held them with a toy gun while he telephoned the police. When the police arrived they arrested the two men, and also the homeowner, who was charged with putting someone in fear with a toy gun. An elderly woman who scared off a gang of youths by firing a cap pistol was charged with the same offense. How did it come to this? How were the British lulled into giving up what Americans regard as an essential right? The Cato Institute identifies these steps in the process: * 1920: Law introduced requiring certification every 3 years of necessity of owning a gun * 1937: “Necessity” redefined to discourage home or personal protection * 1953: Prevention of Crime Act passed - outlaws carrying any article for an “offensive purpose.” * 1964: “Necessity” redefined to exclude home or personal protection * 1967: Criminal law revised to allow only “reasonable” force in self-defense. Protection of property is considered unreasonable." http://geoff82.wordpress.com/2006/11/27/the-right-to-self-defense/ You may not intimidate criminals with replica firearms, and there are cases where homeowners/victims of violence have been prosecuted for prevailing over their attackers. Because weapons are the only reasonable way for all women (who should be guaranteed equal treatment and therefore equal protection under the law-the law cannot favor muscular Amazons with martial arts training) to resist attackers, it is clear that the rights of criminals have been elevated over the rights of victims in the UK. Please do a little research before you post so that in the future you'll understand the difference between believing something is true, and knowing something is true. Or, if you wish for me to educate you, then ask politely instead of issuing a surly challenge. Bullies deserve no courtesy, and your ignorance is not my fault.
I don't believe that.
#606. To: HOUNDDAWG (#602)
That's it right there! !!!!
And to their cowardly collaborators I say, "It's not your right to forfeit for the rest of us".
#607. To: Pinguinite (#482)
That's right. And this time will be no exception.
Hate to say this, but the last time a depression hit, government nannyism when into hyperdrive.
#608. To: ... (#347)
Nope...three bozos total...MUD You're a liar here. I know five who have you on Bozo and I know there are more. . ... posted on 2008-05-05 17:07:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Edit Triple Dots: How do you know how many bozo's -MUD- has?
#347. To: Mudboy Slim (#341)
#609. To: Pinguinite, All (#608)
Ping to #608
#610. To: Pinguinite, ... (#609)
#608
#611. To: Jethro Tull (#610)
I saw your ping. I don't know why you're pinging me. As with most disputes on 4um, I'm not involved.
#612. To: Jethro Tull (#608)
I conducted a poll. Why?
How do you know how many bozo's -MUD- has?
.
#613. To: robin, christine (#348)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#614. To: Jethro Tull (#608)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#615. To: ghostdogtxn (#614)
What about JCHarris or BOC (??? I almost don't remember that asshole,) ... I have no one on Bozo ... while being bozoed by two pussies !
I decided he's pretty civil for a bought and sold bushbot shill, so I took him off.
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation".
Vladimir Lenin
#616. To: ... (#612)
With who, your sock puppets?
I conducted a poll. Why?
#617. To: ghostdogtxn (#614)
-MUD- is used by a party to defend the indefensible, but other than that, he's OK :P
#618. To: ghostdogtxn, Turtle, ALL (#613)
You probably weren't able to read all the comments on this thread regarding the bozo feature. I was initially concerned that its overuse by so many was stifling debate and it seemed an anathema to the idea of having a free and open forum. Of those who offered opinions, we were split between eliminating the feature altogether and/or leaving it as is. I then made the decision to do what I thought was a fair compromise and that was cutting the number of slots from 20 to 10. It was pointed out to me that the potential for abuse existed in that members could use alternate IDs to stack up the number of bozos on targeted individuals in an effort to demoralize. After further discussion and consideration, I decided that a better solution was to remove from each member's setup page, the display showing the number of bozos, thereby eliminating that abuse potential and I restored the number of slots to 20.
#619. To: christine (#618)
I think it's sad you even had to deal with this issue at all.
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#620. To: robin (#348)
Hey Robin I think you should be to bozo anyone you want to. No limit. But it aint the end of the world. You can just ignore them with your eyeballs. I think this is a sign of things to come. A new election, a new president. People are splitting into the new camps. I find it hard to believe that you would leave this place after all these years. No Robin and no zipporah. I'm shocked I tell you.
#621. To: noone222 (#615)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#622. To: christine (#618)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#623. To: ghostdogtxn, robin (#622)
I was initially concerned that its overuse by so many was stifling debate and it seemed an anathema to the idea of having a free and open forum. this was my major concern and what everyone seems to be losing focus of. in truth, this split has been coming for a long time. robin had shared with me several months ago that she was becoming increasingly unhappy with the rancor and divisiveness that was occurring on 4um. it was and has been distressing to me as well. an election always brings this kind of division to forums. i didn't think it would happen here as i thought that we were mostly unified in our disdain for the establishment (two party fraud) and that we would never again make the decision to vote for "the lesser of two evils." well, as we've learned, i was wrong in my assumption. this is what is at the core of the schism. there's been an ideological and political parting of the ways between the two camps.
I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else?
#624. To: christine (#623)
I didn't think it would happen here either. Most of the participants on this forum are mature enough to have seen a plentitude of examples of the two party fraud over their lifetimes. The PTB have us so well figured out that they're able to "create" enough shallow appearance of an "election" that it soon causes mass amnesia regarding substantive issues and arguments about nothingness break out between people that agree on most issues EVEN WHEN THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES LIBERAL or CONSERVATIVE because at their core they are AMERICANS first. I wish I had the answer to this enigma. In my lifetime I have never witnessed so little value in the "vote". Our inability to deal with the lesser of a hundred evils has brought us to this sad election cycle without a candidate worthy of one AMERICAN vote. It's sad and disturbing to see people getting so caught up in the farce that they shun their friends for it. We all want our liberty back and none of the three primary presidential (losers) candidates want to give it back. How can a freedom lover cast their vote for what they perceive as the lesser of tyrants ?
an election always brings this kind of division to forums. i didn't think it would happen here as i thought that we were mostly unified in our disdain for the establishment (two party fraud) and that we would never again make the decision to vote for "the lesser of two evils." well, as we've learned, i was wrong in my assumption.
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation".
Vladimir Lenin
#625. To: christine (#623) (Edited)
an election always brings this kind of division to forums. i didn't think it would happen here as i thought that we were mostly unified in our disdain for the establishment (two party fraud) and that we would never again make the decision to vote for "the lesser of two evils." well, as we've learned, i was wrong in my assumption. this is what is at the core of the schism. there's been an ideological and political parting of the ways between the two camps. Christine, I guess I'm too stupid to understand why people do not see your point about how the bozo was used to stifle debate, or hide the truth.. I never had a problem being bozo'd other than, having to re-explain a point over and over, while goofy little cowards were allowed to pretend to take some moral highground. I don't believe anyone said, yes, by eliminating bozo we can force YOU TO READ what you don't want to, or force you to respond.. what we were saying I think, was when facts were presented, it would be obvious that a person was puposefully ignoring it, and could not pretend not to 'see' the info by hiding behind the bozo feature.. It's obvious the folks at Robins place do not have an flipping clue about the truth of the situation. They make it sound like those bozod whined about it as it's own feature, while the truth points the finger at intellectually dishonest. Now that we know that Robin had expressed her displeasure with the tenor of the forum long before the 'bozo' feature was used to abuse, it further proves, the split was never about the bozo at all, it was about the inability to hide behind it. The inability to carry on honest debate and discussion was the knife at the throat of the rest of the posters here.
this was my major concern and what everyone seems to be losing focus of. in truth, this split has been coming for a long time. robin had shared with me several months ago that she was becoming increasingly unhappy with the rancor and divisiveness that was occurring on 4um. it was and has been distressing to me as well.
#626. To: christine (#623)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#627. To: ghostdogtxn (#621)
Oh yeah ... that's the one. I think the system as it has been from the beginning is user friendly and serves the purpose of all concerned. I have no one bozo'ed.
unless you mean Be A Chooser
#628. To: Peppa, ghostdogtxn, ALL (#625) (Edited)
what further compounded the problem and what compelled me to begin this thread was that i was getting complaints and accusations from both sides that there was an organized effort to destroy 4um. it's my belief that it was that distrust of one another that was detrimental to the health of the forum. i honestly was trying to make peace.
#629. To: noone222 (#627)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#630. To: noone222, christine, All (#627)
I have no one bozo'ed. Me too. imo Bozo is silly. It reminds me of the kids that cover up their ears and shout "NA NA NANA NA NA NA NANA NA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!" Put the bozoers at the kiddy table where they belong. Let them swim in the kiddie pool. I am just glad this board is here.
I think the system as it has been from the beginning is user friendly and serves the purpose of all concerned.
http://policestateusa.net/
#631. To: christine (#628) (Edited)
It was. Trust can only be earned. i honestly was trying to make peace. I know.
what further compounded the problem and what compelled me to begin this thread was that i was getting complaints and accusations from both sides that there was an organized effort to destroy 4um. it's my belief that it was that distrust of one another that was detrimental to the health of the forum.
#632. To: christine (#623)
Central planning collectivism has always been attacked on f4um. People like Minerva, Morgan le Fay and a few others I can't think of at the moment have always had a hard time of it here because they are forced to defend their "government is the answer" beliefs. This isn't the DailyKOS or DU and they are not able to spout their nonsense without being challenged. All anyone has to do is look back at their interactions over the years to see this. IMHO, there has been no increase in rancor. The only change has been that robin and others have changed their views to match those same "the government is the answer" views of the before mentioned members. Their views are being challenged in the same way they have always been and they don't like it.
this was my major concern and what everyone seems to be losing focus of. in truth, this split has been coming for a long time. robin had shared with me several months ago that she was becoming increasingly unhappy with the rancor and divisiveness that was occurring on 4um. it was and has been distressing to me as well.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
#633. To: christine, Peppa, ALL (#628)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#634. To: Hayek Fan (#632) (Edited)
Some stubbornly independent MO FOs' here at forum ... thankfully. Tribulation is a harvest term related to separating wheat from chaff ... there's a time and a season for everything !
Central planning collectivism has always been attacked on f4um. People like Minerva, Morgan le Fay and a few others I can't think of at the moment have always had a hard time of it here because they are forced to defend their "government is the answer" beliefs.
#635. To: Peppa, christine (#625)
If Robin wants to open her own website as a shrine to Obama, have at it. Here, the use of the bozo to stifle debate and crown Obaba master was counter to the expressed policy and intention of the forum, to my way of seeing things. Changing the bozo back and forth only hastened the eventual moving of the shrine. Let the others who like that kind of thing head over there as well. In my mind it was ridiculous. There wasn't discussion, there was mantra. Plenty of new posters will come when they see this is a site for open expression.
The inability to carry on dishonest debate and discussion
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
#636. To: christine (#628)
I think there are operatives here who want to disrupt the discussion of the state of affairs. Some of those operatives use the Obaba threads to spam and keep the forum distracted. It's been nice having a bit less of it lately.
there was an organized effort to destroy 4um. it's my belief that it was that distrust of one another that was detrimental to the health of the forum.
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
#637. To: angle (#635)
Changing the bozo back and forth only hastened the eventual moving of the shrine. Let the others who like that kind of thing head over there as well. In my mind it was ridiculous. There wasn't discussion, there was mantra. Plenty of new posters will come when they see this is a site for open expression. Amen, and welcome newbies and former lurkers!
If Robin wants to open her own website as a shrine to Obama, have at it. Here, the use of the bozo to stifle debate and crown Obaba master was counter to the expressed policy and intention of the forum, to my way of seeing things.
#638. To: Hayek Fan (#632)
The hard left was here in drag.
People like Minerva, Morgan le Fay and a few others I can't think of at the moment have always had a hard time of it here
#639. To: angle, christine (#636)
I disagree. Many of those cheerleading for Obama have been on f4um for a long time. Maybe that's why people feel there is so much rancor. Many of those today cheerleading for Obama were once our allies in the battle against central planning collectivism/big government. We were all friendly with one another and appeared to have the same goals. Now they have changed their minds and embrace central planning collectivism/big government and their ideas are being attacked. Both sides feel betrayed by their online friends.
I think there are operatives here who want to disrupt the discussion of the state of affairs. Some of those operatives use the Obaba threads to spam and keep the forum distracted. It's been nice having a bit less of it lately.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
#640. To: christine (#628) (Edited)
As manager of the forum, your functions consist of leading, planning, organizing, and controlling within the context of virtually little to no censorship. In other words, you've set yourself up to attempting to herd cats ;- )
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” Schweizerische Schutzenseitunt (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#641. To: Jethro Tull (#638) (Edited)
Do you think so? I always thought that Minerva and Morgan le Fay were quite open about their central planning collectivist/big government opinions. Their fall back defense seemed to always end with the idea that anyone who didn't agree with their big government views were republican shills. Then they ran off pissed, not to be heard from again for another month or so.
The hard left was here in drag.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
#642. To: Hayek Fan (#641)
Minerva and Morgan le Fay = they were a sham....a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of two travesties of a mockery of a sham.
#643. To: christine (#628)
"Peace" with a Socialist/Communist/Progressive means buying their stinky pant load. In short, no American patriots will ever be at peace with activist anti-American de constructionists...
i honestly was trying to make peace.
#644. To: Jethro Tull, Morgan le Fay (#642)
Drive by moron...possibly crack addled.
Morgan le Fay
#645. To: ghostdogtxn (#626)
Excellent thoughts. Thank you.
#646. To: ghostdogtxn (#633)
You need to have faith in the resilience of this thing you have built, and faith in yourself, based on your prior history of running this forum. Whatever BeAChoosers or Badeyes may come, you've proven you can handle things quite well. The last thing you need to worry about is someone making "an organized effort to destroy the forum". It's simply not going to happen because too many people here are more comfortable here than anywhere else. So don't worry about it. As far as "running" the forum, I know you generally ascribe to the notion that the government that governs least governs best. That's true in the case of running a forum as well. You don't need to step in just because a bunch of folks start whining. Let 'em whine. You have to have a little faith in us, too. Perfect. And with that summation, I may chose to exercise the wonderful 'Ignore Thread' feature for speed of loading. Thank you.
Chris, you are running probably the best free speech site on the web. I've never seen you pull anyone's comment, I've never seen you ban anyone (although I'm sure you've had to), and I've never seen you be anything but respectful of everyone's rights to express their opinions, even ones you strongly disagree with.
#647. To: Hayek Fan (#639)
Certainly I'm not painting all with the "operative" brush. Certainly some are and some of those were highly visible on the Obaba threads.
Many of those cheerleading for Obama have been on f4um for a long time.
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
#648. To: angle (#647)
You may be right. With so many government operatives being paid to spread pro- government propaganda it is not unreasonable to believe that presidential campaigns have also gotten into the act.
Certainly I'm not painting all with the "operative" brush. Certainly some are and some of those were highly visible on the Obaba threads.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
#649. To: Hayek Fan (#648)
More importantly, they've gotten into the free speech forums. Those people were here and lurking before the presidential campaigns got into swing. FR sold out and LP had the big Israel above all else agenda. But the craziness has died down now for a spell and I welcome the rest.
it is not unreasonable to believe that presidential campaigns have also gotten into the act.
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
#650. To: All (#0)
Wednesday night nostalgia bump! ;-D
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#651. To: Artisan (#650)
Who has stuff from 3+ years ago?
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is still missing its idiot.
#652. To: Lod (#651)
the posts stay here 4ever, i think. There's a lot of interesting threads & research archived. The 911 discussion threads for example, are a wealth of information.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#653. To: Jethro Tull, Minerva (#642)
Minerva had a hot looking picture on her home page, if my memory is accurate. It is once in awhile.
Minerva and Morgan le Fay
#654. To: Lod (#651)
Well, I've still got some WWII ammo I purchased in the 1990's lurking around in one of my closets!!
Who has stuff from 3+ years ago?
__________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#655. To: Kamala (#375)
she's not able to see the closet from where she sits now...LOL
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
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