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All is Vanity
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Title: Three Cheers for Barak Obama! Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 7, 2008
Author: Arator
Post Date: 2008-05-07 19:38:37 by Arator
Keywords: Obama, Beats, BushClinton
Views: 11511
Comments: 328

He's done what no one expected or thought possible - he's driven a stake through the heart of the Clinton machine.

One crime family down, one to go. Bush-family proxy and crazed neocon Armageddonist, Senator John McCain, should be easy pickens.

Now, what's this I've heard about RP+Obama supporters no longer being entirely welcome by some 4um posters? Say it ain't so! ;^)

Tactical differences should not divide freedom-lovers. We share the same goals. So what if we disagree on how to get there?

Purist non-voters like JT and chrissy would never vote for Obama, even if their abstention results in the neo-fascist GOP remaining unpunished and in power.

Others (like me), find Obama to be an acceptable instrument for unleashing destructive wrath on the contemptable GOP (and their ranks of McCainiacal neo-con apocolypse-lusters).

Such disagreements shouldn't split this good forum. What unites us is far greater than what divides us, right?

Poster Comment:

I love a good schismatic forum fight....only without the schism. ;^)

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 162.

#28. To: Arator (#0)

Should Obama get elected, (and I don't think he will) whom will be his step and fetchit V.P. ?

noone222  posted on  2008-05-07   20:27:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Should Obama get elected, (and I don't think he will) whom will be his step and fetchit V.P. ?

I'm hoping that he picks Senator Jim Webb. Webb would have strong appeal with Reagan Democrats, disgusted ex-GOPers and (in general) the Scots-Irish cultural fulcrum upon which America often turns. Where we Scots-Irish go, so goes the nation (see Webb's outstanding book, Born Fighting)!

Arator  posted on  2008-05-07   20:47:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm hoping that he picks Senator Jim Webb.

See my #46. Webb if four square for Hate crime legislation. Stop with these frauds.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-07   20:49:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

See my #46. Webb if four square for Hate crime legislation. Stop with these frauds.

LePen is going to the slammer for saying a certain event was yes, a point in history.

That was ruled a crime, and off to the gulag he goes.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07   20:54:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Americans who refuse to kowtow are NEXT. And many of these pro-Obama people will be pleased.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-07   20:56:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Americans who refuse to kowtow are NEXT. And many of these pro-Obama people will be pleased.

Then it will be their turn.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07   21:00:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

To: christine, ALL Subject: Re: Three Cheers for Barak Obama! Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! There was a time when discourse on such a thread as this would have been very limited. It is, however, very clear that few who participate here understand what dire straits this country is in.

For those too young to remember what freedoms we have enjoyed in the past, start paying attention to what choices you have on your ballots. You think we, "the American people", chose those self-serving, ill-intending three to be the last remaining candidates looking to run for President? Hell no, we didn't choose them.

You think we have a two party system in this republic? Hell no, just look at our choices. All three will take us down the same path, at breakneck speed, and in response to their masters' bidding, to either dictatorship or WWIII.

About the only freedoms we possess today is the freedom to die in wars we do not want and the freedom to pay ungodly taxes. Oh, yes, and we have the freedom to vote for those chosen by the powerbrokers. However, tomorrow you may well lose that freedom, too, and be forced to vote for whom you are told.

I suggest all you silly sheep get busy and start using your own brain to ascertain what is happening to this country. AND ... do so before you turn to mutton!!!

Phant2000  posted on  2008-05-07   21:37:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You think we have a two party system in this republic? Hell no, just look at our choices. All three will take us down the same path, at breakneck speed, and in response to their masters' bidding, to either dictatorship or WWIII.

Great post !

Hear hear !!

FOH  posted on  2008-05-07   22:05:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Ron Paul is fond of quoting GWB's campaign promises when he ran in 2000, and reminding us that he ran on a HUMBLE foreign policy, NO nation building, and NOT being the policeman of the world.

So the assholes bought GWB's lies and now they are buying Obama's lies.

Insanity is defined as doing the same things over and over expecting different results...

Critter  posted on  2008-05-07   22:12:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So the assholes bought GWB's lies and now they are buying Obama's lies.

I won't call anybody who contemplates voting for Hussein Obama an asshole, just grossly misguided. I genuinely feel sorry for them because Freedom4um has failed if they haven't read the articles posted to see just how unprepared HO is for the Oval Office.

X-15  posted on  2008-05-07   22:16:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I won't call anybody who contemplates voting for Hussein Obama an asshole

I will. Only assholes knowingly support marxists and fascists.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-07   22:18:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I won't call anybody who contemplates voting for Hussein Obama an asshole

I will. Only assholes knowingly support marxists and fascists.

I'm up to 15 filters as of this moment, primarily because I absolutely can not will not and shall not act as though these traitors in our midst are not complete flipping assholes, but have at it...

(what's really funny is the chickensh*t Establishment Lefty tools think it hurts my feelings - bwahahahaha)

FOH  posted on  2008-05-07   22:29:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think you are a great debater. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-07   22:33:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think you are a great debater. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

See, that's your problem. It's also generally the first thing you cranks do because by getting off into mental masturbation land, you think it diminishes the FACTS.

You support a:

Establishment Puppet

Infanticider

Gun Grabber

Racist

Marxist

Liberal

World Orderist whose campaign is steered by Zbig (might as well be Kissinger).

What else is there to talk about ?

All of your insulting rationalizations ?

You're all a bunch of losers, liars and punks. I just point it out and mock you all...and laugh as my filter # climbs up !!!

FOH  posted on  2008-05-07   22:38:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I am sorry, but I will NEVER bozolize you. When I wrote that your a great debater I mean it. I love how everything is logical even though intransigent. One thing always leads to another - amazing! - and, overall, I found your writing to be humorous, well-thought, principled, factful and varied. That's what makes you such a great debater and such a pleasure to read.

You never been a bushbot. Yes?

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-07   22:44:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Contents

The Manifesto is divided into an introduction, three substantive sections, and a conclusion.

Preamble

The introduction begins with the notable comparison of communism to a "spectre," claiming that across Europe communism is feared, but not understood, and thus communists ought to make their views known with a manifesto:

A spectre is haunting Europe—the spectre of Communism. All the Powers of old Europe have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Pope and Czar, Metternich and Guizot, French Radicals and German police-spies.

Where is the party in opposition that has not been decried as Communistic by its opponents in power? Where is the Opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of Communism, against the more advanced opposition parties, as well as against its reactionary adversaries?^[3]

I. Bourgeois and Proletarians

The first section, "Bourgeois and Proletarians", puts forward Marx's historical materialism, claiming that

The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guild-master and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary re-constitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

The section goes on to argue that the class struggle under capitalism is between those who own the means of production, the ruling class or bourgeoisie, and those who labor for a wage, the working class or proletariat. Though the bourgeoisie has played a progressive role in destroying feudalism, according to Marx and Engels, it has also brought about the conditions for its own impending downfall by creating a contradiction within capitalism between the forces of production and the relations of production:

The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It ... has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous “cash payment” ... for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation ... Constant revolutionizing of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones ... All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses, his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.

However:

The essential condition for the existence, and for the sway of the bourgeois class, is the formation and augmentation of capital; the condition for capital is wage-labour. Wage-labour rests exclusively on competition between the labourers.

II. Proletarians and Communists

The second section, "Proletarians and Communists," starts by outlining the relationship of conscious communists to the rest of the working class:

The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working-class parties.

They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole.

They do not set up any special principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.

The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.

It goes on to defend communism from various objections, such as the claim that communists advocate "free love," and the claim that people will not perform labor in a communist society because they have no incentive to work.

The section ends by outlining a set of short-term demands. These included, among others, the abolition of both land ownership and of the right to inheritance, a progressive income tax, universal education, centralization of the means of communication and transport under state management, and the expansion of the means of production owned by the state. The implementation of these policies, would, the authors believed, be a precursor to the stateless and classless society.

One particularly controversial passage deals with this transitional period:

When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.

It is this concept of the transition from socialism to communism which many critics of the Manifesto, particularly during and after the Soviet era, have highlighted. Anarchists, liberals, and conservatives have all asked how an organization such as the revolutionary state could ever (as Engels put it elsewhere) "wither away."

In a related dispute, later Marxists make a separation between "socialism," a society ruled by workers, and "communism," a classless society. Engels wrote little and Marx wrote less on the specifics of the transition to communism, so the authenticity of this distinction remains a matter of dispute.

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.^[4]

According to the Communist Manifesto, all these were prior conditions for a transition from capitalism to communism (but Marx and Engels later expressed a desire to modernize this passage^[5]).

III. Socialist and Communist Literature

The third section, "Socialist and Communist Literature," distinguishes communism from other socialist doctrines prevalent at the time the Manifesto was written. While the harshness of Marx's and Engels' attacks varies, and their debt to "utopian socialists" such as Fourier, Proudhon, and Owen is acknowledged^{[citation needed]}, all rival views are eventually dismissed for advocating reformism and failing to recognize the key role of the working class. Partly because of Marx's critique, most of the specific ideologies described in this section became politically negligible by the end of the nineteenth century.

IV. Position of the Communists in Relation to the Various Existing Opposition Parties

The concluding section, "Position of the Communists in Relation to the Various Existing Opposition Parties," briefly discusses the communist position on struggles in specific countries in the mid-nineteenth century. It then ends with a call to action:

The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.

Workers of the world, unite!

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.^[4]

Please tell me which of the 10 planks you reject and why...

FOH  posted on  2008-05-07   22:52:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

According to the Communist Manifesto, all these were prior conditions for a transition from capitalism to communism (but Marx and Engels later expressed a desire to modernize this passage[5]).

People, listen...............

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07   23:26:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

According to the Communist Manifesto, all these were prior conditions for a transition from capitalism to communism (but Marx and Engels later expressed a desire to modernize this passage[5]).

People, listen...............

You would have thought those who (pretended) to support Ron Paul (and now are Ocons) would have already known this...but then again, we're not dealing with intellectually honest people here.

FOH  posted on  2008-05-07   23:29:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#166. To: FOH (#162)

www.propagandamatrix.com/...apitalist_Conspriracy.wmv

In The Grand Chessboard, Zbigniew Brzezinski Admits Elite Plan to Use the United States Police State to Bring About Their Totalitarian New World Order.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-05-07 23:32:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

we're not dealing with intellectually honest people here.

Agreed.

Bozoing helped them hide from addressing facts they can not spin and lies they can not sell.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-07 23:37:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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