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Title: I’m beginning to think McCain will be less dangerous to my freedom than Obama
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 8, 2008
Author: Me
Post Date: 2008-05-08 07:57:19 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 3733
Comments: 195

As a realist I know either McCain or Obama will be the next president, and although I won’t be voting, I’m coming to the conclusion that McCain will be less of a train wreck to my personal freedom than Obama.

Obama, like McCain, offers endless war, so their foreign policy is a draw. In fact I give points to McCain for his honest 100 year comment. Obama’s nutty obsession to hunt down al Qaeda, a creation of the US government, was all I needed to know about his foreign policy. His speech to AIPAC was the cap stone.

On the domestic front, both are awful, but Obama is much worse on guns. His dalliance with Black Theology is equally bad news. One look at the over animated Jeremiah Wright should be enough to convince white America that an influence like him will bring us additional layers of affirmative action, political correctness and slavery reparations. And did I mention Michelle Obama? She reeks of nasty and racism. The only plus Obama would bring is a potential white backlash, which is long over due.

There's lots more, but this is a starting point.

Let the discussion begin.

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#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

I agree. I think I'll vote for McCain cuz at least he'll appoint conservative justices to the SC.

Tagline space for rent.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-08   8:03:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Critter (#1)

I think I'll vote for McCain cuz at least he'll appoint conservative justices to the SC.

LOL !!

At least it wou't be Cornel West :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:05:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Critter (#1)

I agree. I think I'll vote for McCain cuz at least he'll appoint conservative justices to the SC.

Tagline space for rent.

You may use my tagline until someone rents yours. There is no charge.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

wbales  posted on  2008-05-08   8:07:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: wbales (#3)

Thanks man!

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-08   8:10:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Jethro Tull (#2)

How did you like my best freeper imitation?

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-08   8:10:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Critter, Jethro Tull, Christine (#1) (Edited)

I agree. I think I'll vote for McCain cuz at least he'll appoint conservative justices to the SC.

Hmmm, see?

Bushbotism re-raises its ugly head and NO ONE should ever JOKE about it. Using Bushbotism in 'HUMOR' is like writing a Hitler family sitcom.

(Critter, this is addressed to Christine, you and JT are only cc'd)

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   8:11:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: wbales, Jethro Tull (#3)

I didn't use < s > < /s > tags cuz I wanted to fool the Ophiles into thinking I am as gullible as they are.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-08   8:12:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Jethro Tull, Christine, wbales (#6) (Edited)

See? It worked. hehehe

(see post 7)

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-08   8:13:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

On the domestic front, both are awful, but Obama is much worse

When has McCain called for restoring habeas corpus?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-08   8:13:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: aristeides (#9)

When has McCain called for restoring habeas corpus?

I don't believe Obama will restore jack. He's a politician, therefore he lies. It's what they do.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:15:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#6) (Edited)

Nice edit job. It used to say:

Hmmm, see?

Bushbotism re-raises its ugly head.

(Critter, this is addressed to Christine, you and JT are only cc'd)

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-08   8:16:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Jethro Tull, a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)

No surprise that somebody who uses the Bushite "war on terror" language would take this position.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-08   8:16:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Critter (#7)

Oh, sure.

I bet that, if you find the courage to submit yourself to a thorough checkup, Bushbotulism will be detected.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   8:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Critter (#5)

How did you like my best freeper imitation?

Hilarious!

I remember them ignoring the fact that the current Court has 7 Rs on it and they're still driving us to the Left.

Like the Os here, reality and fact doesn't get in the way of emotion.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:18:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#14)

Like the Os here, reality and fact doesn't get in the way of emotion.

or intention.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-08   8:23:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Jethro Tull (#14)

How did you like my best freeper imitation?

Hilarious!

Didn't you really mean to write... Hillaryous? Sorry... she's on her way out for the moment. Something is telling me that she's going to dedicate the rest of her life to grooming Chelsea - the 30 year-old teenager - for political life. How would a Chelsea C vs. Barbie Bush (with Jena as the VP) for what's left of the US prez in... 2020?

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   8:23:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: aristeides (#12)

Obama loves the war on terror. He just wants to move it to a different battlefield.

Obama: War on terror being fought 'on the wrong battlefield"

OELWEIN (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., argued Saturday that the U.S. is fighting on the wrong battlefield and that President Bush's failed policies had left the nation facing a greater threat from terrorism.

Obama said Bush has talked tough on terrorism but made choices that let Osama bin Laden and his top deputies remain free. Obama said the military should begin reducing the number of troops in Iraq and turn its attention to al-Qaida strongholds.

"We cannot win a war against the terrorists if we're on the wrong battlefield," said Obama. "America must urgently begin deploying from Iraq and take the fight more effectively to the enemy's home by destroying al-Qaida's leadership along the Afghan-Pakistan border, eliminating their command and control networks and disrupting their funding."

Obama continued to talk tough on terrorism later in the day, as he packed about 300 people into a school gymnasium in Manchester, even with a popular county fair running just across the street.

"When I am president of the United States I will make this pledge: Nobody will work harder to go after those terrorists who will do the American people harm," Obama said. "But that requires a commander in chief who understands our troops need to be on the right battlefield, not the wrong battlefield."

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:24:40 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Arator (#16)

Didn't you really mean to write... Hillaryous? Sorry... she's on her way out for the moment. Something is telling me that she's going to dedicate the rest of her life to grooming Chelsea - the 30 year-old teenager - for political life. How would a Chelsea C vs. Barbie Bush (with Jena as the VP) for what's left of the US prez in... 2020?

Yes, this was my argument to Arator and those who think Obama will kill of the Clintons.

Look for this Bush ---->

and Chelsea to sometime soon dedicate their lives to "public service."

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:30:06 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Jethro Tull (#17)

that requires a commander in chief who understands our troops need to be on the right battlefield, not the wrong battlefield."

And? Are you saying that our troops should be sent to the wrong battlefield and Obama, if elected, would upset that brilliant Bush strategy?

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   8:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Jethro Tull (#17)

Obama, Bush and the rest of the war party should extend thier "do unto them before they do unto you" attack philosophy down to the American street level.

Therefore, say a street gang or, even, on the average school yard playground if someone percieves or thinks that someone else is out to "get" them be it based on real or imagined fears (or based on outright lies and fabrications), the first person should not hesitate to do great bodily harm to the second.

It's the new American way to conflict resolution--the War Party way.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

wbales  posted on  2008-05-08   8:33:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#19)

Our troops should be brought home and sent to our Southern border.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:33:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

There's lots more, but this is a starting point.

It's not a starting point for me. This thread is beyond disgusting.

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   8:33:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: wbales (#20)

It's the new American way to conflict resolution--the War Party way.

I like this.

We can start by preempting the Crips, Bloods and MS-13. Then, we can move on to the Illegal Invaders and welfare mooches.

It's all about MY wallet and I can't AFFORD more SOCIALISM.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:36:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: angle (#22)

Sorry....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:36:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Jethro Tull (#24)

Tell me what's your point. This is entertainment for you? Are you then a McCain supporter? Why post a thread of this nature? Is this productive? Talk about driving the wedge in deeper...this furthers a rift that will never be healed.

Just for my edification without rhetoric or bluster please tell me, what's your intent?

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   8:41:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: angle (#25)

My intent is to use my 1st Amendment right to express my thoughts. Nothing more.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:46:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Jethro Tull (#26)

But, admit it, you ARE upset to see Hillary defeated by a darkie. Did you know that she's wearing blue contacts, to make her eyes look blue?

It's almost as bad as Loudobbs bleaching the remains of his hairs. No wonder Loudobbs turned into a Hillarist.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   8:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Jethro Tull (#26)

I'm not disputing your rights. I'm questioning your intentions. So then, you are affirming your support for McCain?

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   8:48:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#27)

No. If he weren't a a socialist I'd be less troubled. If he were a libertarian, who put forward a RP-like platform, I'd support him.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: angle (#28)

Support? I'm not voting. What I said is that the selection is out of my hands and IMO, McCain will be less destructive to my personal freedom than Obama would be.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   8:52:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Jethro Tull (#30) (Edited)

Now, you're again circling around the Ping's dilemma of personal comfort vs. the price others may be paying for it.

Remember Mad Albright's (allegedly the daughter of Hollowcast survivors or at least related to some), completely untroubled by the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi kids, stating that it was 'worth it'? Then, the Bots' bragging that the benefits of sending 150,000 Americans to kill 1,000,000 Iraqis and have 4,000 of them die in the process and maybe 50,000 crippled was that there were no significant terroristic disturbances on the homeland? That and the one trillion borrowed from commies and Arabs were found to be a worthy 'sacrifice'?

So, McCain is likely to continue the good works of Clinton/Reno/Clark/Mad Albbright/Olmert/Bush/Netanyahu. Does this trouble you at all? Or maybe it troubles you but it troubless you less?

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   9:00:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Jethro Tull (#0) (Edited)

I’m coming to the conclusion that McCain will be less of a train wreck to my personal freedom than Obama.

So, you're not just a purist non-voter? You're actually an active promoter of rapacious corporate criminality, freedom-extinguishing police-state thuggery and mass murder for fun and profit?

JT, you've gone over the bend, my friend. Have you had too many years of beating darkies down for the man in NYC to overcome your apparent auto-gag- reflex towards the prospect of a black president? I can't figure out any other reason why you could possibly support the continuation of the current criminal/fascist regime.

As for your "analysis", it's fantastical.

1) Obama has promised to get our troops out of Iraq within his first 16 months in office. This sets him apart from the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. He has taken heat from the warmongering media over this, but he has not backed away. Score 1 for Obama.

2) Under Obama, the war is less likely to expand. Unlike the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly, Obama has emphasized talking with rather than obliterating Iran. Score 1 for Obama (and humanity).

3) Obama has decried the police state fascism of the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. Under Obama, Gitmo (and the black site torture centers) are more likely to be closed, and fundamental rights restored. Score 1 for Obama.

These three reasons alone are enough to make Obama far superior to the fascist freakshow that is the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. But you want more of the same? I guess fascist tyranny is OK for you just so long as the darkies are kept down (along with everyone else) in the process.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-08   9:01:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Arator, Jethro Tull, peppa, cynicom, christine (#32)

...you're not just a purist non-voter?

You're actually an active promoter of rapacious corporate criminality, freedom-extinguishing police-state thuggery, and mass murder for fun and profit?

Looks that way.

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   9:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: angle (#33) (Edited)

I think he only wants to have an interesting debate on the merits of the 'lesser evil' theory.

1 - Some say that 'the three' are 'equally evil' and don't bother to go any further.
2 - Some would support one (usually Obama) because he is 'the lesser evil'.
3 - Others - and Ron Paul and me are some of the 'others' - state that Obama is marginally or significantly better than the other 2 and that he is not 'less evil' but 'better' than the other 2.

Those who belong to #2 should find this discussion interesting.

It is also worth noting that the #1 crowd refuse to admit even the existence of #3, claiming that #3 are in fact #2, which is consistent with their inability to see any difference between 'the three'.

To conclude: this is a good debate for the #2's but, I suspect, this is also an attempt to reinforce the false dogma that #2 = #3.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   9:15:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#34)

To conclude: this is a good debate for the #2's but, I suspect, this is also an attempt to reinforce the false dogma that #2 = #3.

Your analysis is spot on.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-08   9:20:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Arator (#32)

1) Obama has promised to get our troops out of Iraq within his first 16 months in office. This sets him apart from the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. He has taken heat from the warmongering media over this, but he has not backed away. Score 1 for Obama.

2) Under Obama, the war is less likely to expand. Unlike the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly, Obama has emphasized talking with rather than obliterating Iran. Score 1 for Obama (and humanity).

3) Obama has decried the police state fascism of the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. Under Obama, Gitmo (and the black site torture centers) are more likely to be closed, and fundamental rights restored. Score 1 for Obama.

Arator, personal attack aside, your points above are based on promises and hope offered by a politician. You know better, but his race alone is the reason, IMO, that you have looked past his 9-11 beliefs, his promise of an expanded WOT against al CIAda, and his love of large central government (read socialism)

Shelby Steele might assuage your guilt, but then again, some of us are lost to the System.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   9:22:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#34)

I think 3 does equal 2 inasmuch as the choice is made for us and this is merely a dog and pony show to distract the people from the reality that their "choice" is long over.

The promotion of McCain and the discussion is illuminating in that actions are revealing. JT's decision to post this thread reveals his mind. I was unaware of his true position up until now. Frankly, I feel somewhat taken aback and foolish.

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   9:26:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: angle (#37)

I would take it more like one of those 'Rush' challenges. I remember that, in the 20th century when I was tuning into his show from time to time, Rush would say something like: "I decided to become a Clinton supporter and join the Demo party" and then take listeners phone calls.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   9:28:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Arator, All (#31)

Sure McCain bothers me. But Obama is no different. As I've shown in this thread, all he offers is a new battlefield. How many men, and at what cost will Obama's foreign policy folly cost us?

Obama willing to invade Pakistan in al-Qaeda hunt

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   9:29:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Jethro Tull (#39)

The guy said that he WOULD use force to advance OUR national interest. He also stated that he would hunt down and strike at those who were responsible for the killing of Americans on 9/11. Is this surprising?

As for Obama promising to 'invade' Pakistan... of course he never said that. He was discussing the kind of strikes are currently launched against targets in Paki and Somalia. I always suggested that the 'war on terror' would have been a lot more effective if 'we' sent out 1000 or 10,000 armed drones in the air rather than 200,000 GI's on the ground. Those things flying at 50,000 ft. would not recruit Al Queda new members like GI's patrolling the streets of Fallujah do.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   9:34:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#38)

Ploy, challenge or otherwise...it's revealing in a disappointing way because this forum has been under seige for a while now and threads of this nature are like poking a resting dog for no good reason.

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   9:35:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, arator, ari (#40)

When the rubber hit the road, Obama continued to fund war, war, war......

Kucinich Says Clinton and Obama Continue to Vote for War Funding, They and Edwards Refuse to Oppose a Bush-Cheney Attack on Iran.

NEW YORK CITY, April 16 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Congressman and Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich is challenging his fellow candidates' votes to authorize and fund the war in Iraq, and their positions on Iran.

"Clinton, Edwards, and Obama share responsibility for wasting hundreds of billions of dollars in an unnecessary war. And the American tax payers on this day need to remember that," Kucinich charged. Hillary Clinton and John Edwards voted to authorize the war. Clinton and Barack Obama continue to vote to fund it.

At a New Hampshire town meeting yesterday, someone asked Clinton about her vote to authorize the war, and asked if she had read the intelligence reports prior to her vote. Senator Clinton is reported to have said that if she had known then what she knows now, she never would have voted to give the President the authority to go to war.

"If Senator Clinton and the others had done their job they would have known, and they would have voted correctly as I did,"declared Kucinich, who campaigned yesterday in New Hampshire and Connecticut and appeared live on CNN's night show from New York City.

"I didn't just vote against the war, I shared an in depth analysis with Members of Congress that I wrote in October 2002, after reviewing intelligence reports," Kucinich said.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   9:39:03 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Arator (#32)

3) Obama has decried the police state fascism of the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. Under Obama, Gitmo (and the black site torture centers) are more likely to be closed, and fundamental rights restored. Score 1 for Obama.

thats a very good point. I understand Obama recently sponsored legislation that would bring some positive changes in Guantanamo. But hasn't Obama voted for other police-state legislation? Patriot Act? Military Commissions Act? I mean if he voted agaisnt Military Commissions Act, then that would speak positively of him.

But as the others say Obama speaks very enthusiastically about tracking down terrorists and expanding the Afghan war. he's not on our side.

Here's another angle to look at Obama. He doesn't really have strong blood ties to our country. His mother was American. But his father was not. I know that Hilary & McCain are both disloyal to our country. But with Obama being weak on his blood ties to our country, that speaks negatively of him. When electing a president, we should not elect someone without the blood ties.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2008-05-08   9:49:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Jethro Tull, rickyj, foh, christine, nobody222, robnoel (#0) (Edited)

Let the discussion begin.

The more that comes out about Obama, I have already decided he will be the worst of 3 evils and that he will usher in every totalitarian nightmare conceivable, making Bush look like a school kid in perspective.

I will vote, as I did last time, for CP. But I will continue to say all possible to pursuade others never to vote the marxist gun-hating, war on drugs continuing, world- taxing, affirmative action loving, amnesty giving, reparation-loving, Farrakhan hugging, give your money to the rest of the world, white-hating, black panther forgiving, he'll close Gitmo but leave in place and expand other police state legislation so people love him on one issue, married a racist bitch, amoral Obama anywhere near the presidency. The man will be the worst thing that ever happened to the USA and will only hasten our already under way demise.

He has not gotten to where he is for any reason other than his blackness. He used the very system he claims to despise to rise to power. He is a lawyer. He is the newer version of the Socialist jackboot.

An Alan Keyes or a Dr. Walter Williams (had they chosen to run as R's) would have received votes because of their character, their leadership and their supreme intelligence. Obama can not even shine their shoes. He is in every way..an empty suit. He is void of character, leadership, honesty and IMO even intelligence. He's a smooth talking "pretty boy"..the Tiger Woods of politics to most socialist whites (Sorry Tiger).. He is eloquent to those with a high school degree or a journalism degree. He doesn't impress the educated...at all. Just another schmuk smooth-talking RICH lawyer seeking power for power's sake.

When the Socialist jackboot gets in power, people will be praying for Bush to come back. And that says a lot.

This man is a threat to the USA as much or more than Bush is, and the possibility of his election should stoke fear in every one who recognizes the freedoms we've lost under Bush and the ones we have yet to lose, for which Obama has his sights set.

Those on 4UM who defend him either could care less about freedom and their presence on Freedom4um is completely disingenuos, or they're simply ignorant and have fallen in love with a photograph which is contorted to fit their own imaginations and hopes, not reality. Actually, I thought people here had more intellectual "stuff." To see them slobber over this socialist jackboot makes me as angry as seeing Mexican flags being marched through LA. ("I will NOT abandon 20 million illegal aliens!!"--Obama

I will make my feelings known on this 4um, but I will no longer respond to these people individually (so don't waste your time; you'll be filtered or ignored). The New South Africa...coming soon to AmeriKa. Let the reprisals begin.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

IndieTX  posted on  2008-05-08   10:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: IndieTX (#44)

An Alan Keyes or a Dr. Walter Williams (had they chosen to run as R's) would have received votes because of their character

Walter Williams is great but Keyes is just another Jackson only on the right. I don't trust his finacial dealings.


Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'

farmfriend  posted on  2008-05-08   10:05:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Jethro Tull (#18)

FUCK PEDRO BUSH!!!

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   10:10:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Jethro Tull (#10)

When has McCain called for restoring habeas corpus?

I don't believe Obama will restore jack. He's a politician, therefore he lies. It's what they do.

Nevertheless you seem to believe what McCain says. Even though he has a long history of reversing his positions.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-08   10:12:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: IndieTX, Christine (#44)

I will make my feelings known on this 4um, but I will no longer respond to these people individually (so don't waste your time; you'll be filtered or ignored).

I take it that you support restoring the old Bozo filter system, then.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-08   10:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: angle (#33)

...you're not just a purist non-voter? You're actually an active promoter of rapacious corporate criminality, freedom-extinguishing police-state thuggery, and mass murder for fun and profit?

Looks that way.

I don't see his position that way at all.. You really can't place anymore onus on his opinion that you can an Obama or Hillary voter. All 3 are the same, Obama much worse on the domestic side.

If you are voting in self interest, you choose the one you think will do less damage. That is, IF you are voting. He says he is not... That's they way this is coming across to me.

I have said before, if it were that McCain were somehow selected, would the 'democrats' get mad enough to put the pressure on their Congresspeople to stop the war? Dems have had a chance for two years to make it happen, and anytime they can shove more debt, laws and middleclass destruction down our throats. They have wasted their time on steroids in baseball, establishing special recognition for a wrestler, frittered over the lunch menu.... Little or no attention to the huge iceberg coming our way with entitlement spending, and returning war vets, and their care. They have done nothing to stop the outsourcing of jobs, or the flow of illegals.. All want to create as much damage as fast as possible.

So, if McCain gets in, what would dems do? As I have read before, if you want an indication of what a person will behave in the future, look at how they have behaved in the past. Obama has a crappy record. Hillary spends her days thinking of being queen. I imagine how much hell she could raise if Obama became president.

Anyway, do not take this an endorsement of McCain, but rather a repudiation of the whole rotten game.

All we really have to go on, is dems raise taxes and have promised to end the tax cuts... while adding more taxes upon us all. All the rest.. the wars, the rights, the foreign nuttery will continue unabated. So, give me less taxes. Anyone that thinks there hasn't been enough sacrifice for this farce can certainly send the government a little more each month to help them get by. I know they'd appreciate it.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   10:18:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: IndieTX (#44)

But I will continue to say all possible to pursuade others never to vote the marxist gun-hating, war on drugs continuing, world- taxing, affirmative action loving, amnesty giving, reparation-loving, Farrakhan hugging, give your money to the rest of the world, white-hating, black panther forgiving,

That's the part no one wants anyone else to see. It's the promotion of the Black liberation theology. And there is an expectation that Obama will make things 'right'. I've heard many of his voters say exactly that on the tube.

That', is going back to the 60's. That is the domestic game plan -- to wipe out an entire segment of society. Here's where it's going to get interesting in the race between Obama and McCain.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   10:27:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Peppa (#50)

That is the domestic game plan -- to wipe out an entire segment of society

Exactly what the commie ANC is doing in S Africa.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

IndieTX  posted on  2008-05-08   10:31:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: IndieTX, aristeides, ..., lawyers (#44)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-08   10:33:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: ghostdogtxn (#52)

I didn't even make the law review at Yale Law School, even though I had very high grades.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-08   10:35:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: aristeides (#53)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-08   10:39:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: IndieTX (#51)

That is the domestic game plan -- to wipe out an entire segment of society Exactly what the commie ANC is doing in S Africa.

Yes, and another reason why the Obama's Global Tax is outrageous! It subsidizes governments like Mugabe's. IOW Genocide.

Obama:

Fought the ban on Partial Birth Abortion.
Supports Abortion.
Supports genocidal governments
Funds foreign wars.

Believes in social justice, which is jargon for reparations.
Promotes social gospel, which is evangelizing about blaming whitey and ensure the flock understands their victimhood and their oppressors.

This is an angry man. A lot of hatred wrapped up in one man.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   10:39:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Jethro Tull (#18)

dedicate their lives to "public service."

Calling the Bushes, or any gang of crooked politicians "public servants" reminds me of how Subway calls its employees "Sandwich Artists."

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-08   10:41:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Jethro Tull (#0) (Edited)

Obama, like McCain, offers endless war, so their foreign policy is a draw. In fact I give points to McCain for his honest 100 year comment. Obama’s nutty obsession to hunt down al Qaeda, a creation of the US government, was all I needed to know about his foreign policy. His speech to AIPAC was the cap stone.

Obama wants to expand operations in Afghanistan, which is a stupid idea, but it won't be nearly as costly in money and lives as an all-out invasion of Iran. Plus Mad Mac is chomping at the bit to start a war with Russia or China.

So on foreign policy, McCain is the worst of the lot, hands down, with Hillary the runner-up. You might be right that he'll cause less damage at home, but I'm not even sure about that. McCain and Obama are on the same page when it comes to immigration, affirmative action, and just about everything else.

Not voting for either is the only right move that I can see.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-08   10:44:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Jethro Tull (#10) (Edited)

I don't believe Obama will restore jack. He's a politician, therefore he lies. It's what they do.

I don't know, the logic seems shaky to me:

1. McCain clearly states that he will do A, B and C.

2. A, B and C are bad for us.

3. Obama is a politician, so I "know" he will do the same, even though he's shown no inclination towards it so far.

4. Therefore we are better off with McCain.

Obama hasn't danced around and promised to "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" or stated that he's willing to fight in Iraq for 100 years. So at this point I am inclined to take the unknown over the certain problem.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   10:46:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Peppa (#55) (Edited)

Believes in social justice, which is jargon for reparations.

Isn't that sort of like saying that "Believes in religion" is jargon for "worships Satan"?

Both terms can have connotations beyond the radioactive smear.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   10:52:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: ... (#59)

Believes in social justice, which is jargon for reparations. Isn't that sort of like saying that "religion" is jargon for "worship of Satan"?

Both terms can have connotations beyond the radioactive smear.

I don't know, is that what you think of religion?

A religion that preaches hatred has lost it's way. And I'd think its a great idea to call BS on all that do. So, have at it.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   10:58:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

You may be right. But blackface is an unfairly denigrated theatrical tradition.

Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-08   10:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Jethro Tull (#17)

Nobody will work harder to go after those terrorists who will do the American people harm

I think he's talking about you, JT.

Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-08   11:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Tauzero (#62)

I think he's talking about you, JT.

Good point. He doesn't clarify if the eeeeeeevil terrorists are domestic or foreign. And with his support for hate laws, that would definitely endanger me....or you....or in time, all of us.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   11:03:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Arator (#32)

I guess fascist tyranny is OK for you just so long as the darkies are kept down (along with everyone else) in the process.

A western country can survive fascism. It can't survive darkies.

Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-08   11:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Tauzero (#64)

A western country can survive fascism.

But can it survive neoconservatism?

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-08   11:06:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Peppa (#60)

I don't know, is that what you think of religion?

As you know, I don't think that.

And as you also know, the point is that you've used an overly broad category to make a baseless accusation. Sort of like saying that "Obama favors law and order so therefore he wants to imprison us all in concentration camps".

Your "reparations" could be a subset of "social justice" but it doesn't necessarily follow. But implying that it necessarily does follow makes for a nice radioactive smear.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   11:08:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Arator (#32)

1) Obama has promised to get our troops out of Iraq within his first 16 months in office. This sets him apart from the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. He has taken heat from the warmongering media over this, but he has not backed away. Score 1 for Obama.

2) Under Obama, the war is less likely to expand. Unlike the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly, Obama has emphasized talking with rather than obliterating Iran. Score 1 for Obama (and humanity).

3) Obama has decried the police state fascism of the McCain/Hillary Bush/Clinton duopoly. Under Obama, Gitmo (and the black site torture centers) are more likely to be closed, and fundamental rights restored. Score 1 for Obama.

But this is negated by two factors: (1) Obama doesn't have an (R) after his name, and (2) Obama is a coloured guy.

I think that these two points are what is important to a lot of people.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   11:10:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: IndieTX (#44)

But I will continue to say all possible to pursuade others never to vote the marxist gun-hating, war on drugs continuing, world- taxing, affirmative action loving, amnesty giving, reparation-loving, Farrakhan hugging, give your money to the rest of the world, white-hating, black panther forgiving, he'll close Gitmo but leave in place and expand other police state legislation so people love him on one issue, married a racist bitch, amoral Obama anywhere near the presidency.

A most wonderful rant. Bravo!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   11:12:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: IndieTX (#44)

An Alan Keyes or a Dr. Walter Williams (had they chosen to run as R's) would have received votes because of their character, their leadership and their supreme intelligence.

Not only those reasons, but because whitey's a pussy. Those guys can say things about blacks we can't.

(Keyes is kinda nuts tho'. Powerful orator; I always liked him, and never understood why he never won. That is, until he ran for senator in Illinois.)

As much as I like Ward Connerly, it is pathetic that he's the front man.

Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-08   11:13:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: ... (#58)

3. Obama is a politician, so I "know" he will do the same, even though he's shown no inclination towards it so far.

This isn't true.

On guns and taxes Obama is abysmal.

McCain is better on both, as per their voting records.

Foreign policy is a wash as Obama seems hell bent on searching the globe for the fictitious (or dead) bin Laden and warring on the CIA created entity, Al Qaeda.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   11:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Tauzero (#61)

You may be right. But blackface is an unfairly denigrated theatrical tradition.

Click the image for "A History of the Gollywogg Doll". A doll inspired by 19th century Minstrels. Essentially a parody of a parody:

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   11:20:57 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#57)

Not voting for either is the only right move that I can see.

I can't argue with that one bit.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   11:21:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: ... (#66)

As you know, I don't think that.

And as you also know, the point is that you've used an overly broad category to make a baseless accusation. Sort of like saying that "Obama favors law and order so therefore he wants to imprison us all in concentration camps".

Your "reparations" could be a subset of "social justice" but it doesn't necessarily follow. But implying that it necessarily does follow makes for a nice radioactive smear.

If you listened to his speeches, it's there. What the words mean, translate to how he sees his ability to bring it forth. It's that the language he uses, is to mask it's meaning.

And no, I don't know what you think of relgion, that's why I asked the question.

Point is, its not you that's running for President. If you were, I'd want to study your voting record, your speeches, your influences, your past, everything.

If you happen to interpret things differently so be it.

Some see the phrase 'comprehensive immigration reform', and know that really means amnesty.

That's how they keep the sheep asleep.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   11:21:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: ... (#71)

Thanks for the Gollywogg Doll.

No wonder they're in a perpetual state of anger.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   11:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#65)

But can it survive neoconservatism?

To the extent neoconsrvatism embraces darkie, no. By definition.

Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-08   11:23:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: ... (#66)

Your "reparations" could be a subset of "social justice" but it doesn't necessarily follow.

Yes, but it's not unreasonable.

Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-08   11:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: ghostdogtxn (#52)

Whatever his political beliefs and campaign experience may be, he's hardly an affirmative action beneficiary.

The evil of AA is that a more qualified white, who might have performed just as well, or better than Obama, might have been passed over because of his/her color.

AA is reverse racism and needs to go.

Agree?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   11:28:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: IndieTX (#44)

I will make my feelings known on this 4um, but I will no longer respond to these people individually (so don't waste your time; you'll be filtered or ignored).

I don't know who "these" people are unless you mean the Obamaphiles. On another thread you made a blatantly false accusation along with insult and diatribe directed at me. I responded in a civil manner asking where you were coming from. You filtered or ignored me.

Today, your rants / feelings have a lot less credibility in my eyes.

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   11:35:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Peppa (#73)

It's that the language he uses, is to mask it's meaning.

That's the lawyer training, and as he's been lauded with the most excellent of honors, we can be sure he's one of the best at it.

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   11:39:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: angle (#79)

That's the lawyer training, and as he's been lauded with the most excellent of honors, we can be sure he's one of the best at it.

Exactly!!! And some laud his magnificent prowess! Gush gush slobber ~~kerplunk~~ !!

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   11:42:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Jethro Tull (#77)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-08   11:42:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Jethro Tull (#77)

For the same reason Nixon could go to China, Obama could end affirmative action as president.

If you want affirmative action to end, maybe you should want Obama to win.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-08   11:51:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Tauzero (#76)

Your "reparations" could be a subset of "social justice" but it doesn't necessarily follow.

Yes, but it's not unreasonable.

It's possible, but it doesn't necessarily follow.

"Social Justice" could just as easily imply 2nd Amendment rights for all instead of a select few.

Assigning very, very narrow radioactive interpretations to a very, very broad and poorly defined term is little more than a stock propaganda tactic.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   11:58:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: aristeides (#82)

For the same reason Nixon could go to China, Obama could end affirmative action as president.

For the same reason Carter COULDN'T go to China, Obama couldn't initiate an amnesty program. The GOP would crucify him for doing so.

McCain on the other hand would be supported by the GOP in his amnesty efforts. He would be supported in exactly the same way that the GOP supported Bush - have Rush and the rest of the goob foolers tell the bitter rubes that the GOP opposed amnesty while the GOP prepares the bill and votes it in.

And there isn't any doubt about what McCain's amnesty stance is. For those who arn't sure, google "McCain - Kennedy".

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   12:03:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: aristeides (#82)

I don't think I'll ever see Obama say whites, who never owned a slave, or supported the slave trade, or knowingly discriminated against any African American have a right to be angry when affirmative action favors someone of a different race.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   12:03:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Jethro Tull (#85)

Actually, I think he said in his racism speech that their resentment is understandable.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-08   12:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

"As a realist I know either McCain or Obama will be the next president, and although I won’t be voting, I’m coming to the conclusion that McCain will be less of a train wreck to my personal freedom than Obama."

You don't have any material to work with, and I'm sure Bill Clinton feels your pain because of this.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-08   12:06:37 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Peppa (#80)

And some laud his magnificent prowess!

Would it be better if he had failed at everything he had done on his own and instead rode up on the coattails of his relatives - like Bush and McCain?

Why wasn't McCain booted out of the academy? Why wasn't McCain booted out of flight school? Why wasn't McCain booted out of the service after the Forrestal? Does having two admirals looking out for you have anything to do with it?

Personally, I prefer a leader who has a record of accomplishing difficult tasks using his own resources.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   12:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: ... (#88)

Would it be better if he had failed at everything he had done on his own and instead rode up on the coattails of his relatives - like Bush and McCain?

Why wasn't McCain booted out of the academy? Why wasn't McCain booted out of flight school? Why wasn't McCain booted out of the service after the Forrestal? Does having two admirals looking out for you have anything to do with it?

Personally, I prefer a leader who has a record of accomplishing difficult tasks using his own resources.

So would I. Let's find us one. How about Ron Paul?

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   12:08:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: ghostdogtxn (#81)

I'm not saying a person of color can't get an advantage in ADMISSION to Harvard because of race, but getting in the door ain't gonna get you on Law Review. No flippin' way.

That is true.

And it's also true that getting a foot in the door doesn't get you the grades. Bush is a good example of this. Bush wasn't qualified to go to Yale, but he got white guy affirmative action because four generations of his family were big benefactors and Prescot was a trustee. Bush failed miserably while he was there.

McCain also got white guy affirmative action in that he had two admirals in his family. Like Bush, McCain failed miserably when he got his foot in the door.

And it's entirely possible that Obama got into Havard with black guy affirmative action, but in contrast to Bush and McCain, Obama excelled and made law review.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   12:13:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Peppa (#89)

How about Ron Paul?

He sounds good to me.

angle  posted on  2008-05-08   12:13:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Peppa (#89)

How about Ron Paul?

How about Jesus himself?

And now, back to reality ........

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   12:14:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

--

Sleepy Senator John McCain


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-08   12:27:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: ... (#84)

McCain on the other hand would be supported by the GOP in his amnesty efforts.

Yep. If a Democrat does it, the Republican talking heads will call it amnesty (which it is), but if one of there own does it, they'll call it sound conservative policy.

Like I said before, Obama + GOP Congress would be the best way for there not to be any trouble.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-08   12:30:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

"Title: I’m beginning to think..."

That would be a welcome change, if you ever started doing this.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-08   12:31:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#94)

Yep. If a Democrat does it, the Republican talking heads will call it amnesty (which it is), but if one of there own does it, they'll call it sound conservative policy.

And I'm not saying that Obama is better on the amnesty issue, I am only saying that Obama can't get away with it - and McCain can.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   12:32:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: ... (#90)

According to Wikipedia:

McCain has acknowledged engaging in extramarital affairs upon returning from Vietnam. While he was in Vietnam, his wife Carol had been severely injured in a car accident. Due to the accident, she had become 4 inches shorter, gained weight, and had to use crutches to walk. Soon after his return in 1973, McCain began engaging in extramarital affairs. In 1979, he met and began an affair with 25-year-old Cindy Hensley. A year later, McCain sought a divorce from Carol and a month after that, he married Hensley.

He may not have much of a mind, but the old guy sure has made sure he has treated his penis better then women who stood by him while he was a POW.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-08   12:38:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Ferret Mike (#97) (Edited)

McCain has acknowledged engaging in extramarital affairs upon returning from Vietnam. While he was in Vietnam, his wife Carol had been severely injured in a car accident. Due to the accident, she had become 4 inches shorter, gained weight, and had to use crutches to walk. Soon after his return in 1973, McCain began engaging in extramarital affairs. In 1979, he met and began an affair with 25-year-old Cindy Hensley. A year later, McCain sought a divorce from Carol and a month after that, he married Hensley.

It probably won't stop the old fraud from talking about "family values." Why should it, if being one of the Keating Five hasn't stopped him from talking about corrupt campaign financing.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-08   12:40:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Jethro Tull, All (#0) (Edited)

You know, I'm going to have to change my vote to McCain.

Ron Paul, it was nice supporting you, but the rubber meets the road when we're facing another Robert Mugabe trying to take over America and turn it into a turd-world-no-electricity wasteland. This white man will not bow down before ANY black oppressor.

Bring it on, Obama!!!!

;-)

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

X-15  posted on  2008-05-08   12:45:09 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: X-15, Christine (#99)

You know, I'm going to have to change my vote to McCain.

See?

Another Bot, coming out of the closet. :))))

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   12:48:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: X-15 (#99)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-08   12:50:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#100)

You're welcome, feel free to light a cigarette....

;-)

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

X-15  posted on  2008-05-08   12:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: ghostdogtxn (#101)

--

What X-15 does in his spare time.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-08   12:56:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: aristeides (#47)

long history of reversing his positions

New data often times leads to new conclusions.

Elect anyone but Obama, Clinton, or McCain.

mirage  posted on  2008-05-08   13:01:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Ferret Mike (#103)

Mandel Rule, you lose.

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

X-15  posted on  2008-05-08   13:01:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: X-15 (#105)

Actually no, you yourself celebrate your racism daily. I don't need to accuse you of it. If there were no real affirmation of racism by you and I accused you of it as a one size fits all way to win an argument or lively discussion with you, I would indeed be in violation of the Mandel rule.

Making fun of what you already relish about yourself is very much fair game here. ;-D


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-08   13:08:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Ferret Mike (#97)

McCain has acknowledged engaging in extramarital affairs upon returning from Vietnam. While he was in Vietnam, his wife Carol had been severely injured in a car accident. Due to the accident, she had become 4 inches shorter, gained weight, and had to use crutches to walk. Soon after his return in 1973, McCain began engaging in extramarital affairs. In 1979, he met and began an affair with 25-year-old Cindy Hensley. A year later, McCain sought a divorce from Carol and a month after that, he married Hensley.

He may not have much of a mind, but the old guy sure has made sure he has treated his penis better then women who stood by him while he was a POW.

I need to google up some old GOP quotes about how extramarital affairs disqualified you for the office of President.

If I recall correctly, Newt had some beauties.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   13:09:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: X-15 (#99)

This white man will not bow down before ANY black oppressor.

Lots of people from the South have been touched by the tar brush somewhere back in the family tree. Do you ask to see their passbook before dealing with them?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   13:11:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Ferret Mike, X-15, Illegal Mexican Trap, Burkeman1 (#103) (Edited)

Here's another beaut.

I find it hilarious!!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   13:13:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: ... (#108)

Lots of people from the South have been touched by the tar brush somewhere back in the family tree. Do you ask to see their passbook before dealing with them?

Liberal myth, please drive through...

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

X-15  posted on  2008-05-08   13:18:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: X-15 (#110)

Lots of people from the South have been touched by the tar brush somewhere back in the family tree. Do you ask to see their passbook before dealing with them?

Liberal myth, please drive through...

You don't spend a lot of time in South Louisiana. Huh?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   13:26:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: ... (#90)

And it's also true that getting a foot in the door doesn't get you the grades.

Of course not, but AA uses color as a factor in the selection process, and with that comes unintended consequences. We'll never know what contributions to society were never realized b/c a black was given preference over a more qualified white.

AA is reverse racism and it's practitioners social engineers for the political left.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   13:28:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Arator (#32)

You're actually an active promoter of rapacious corporate criminality, freedom-extinguishing police-state thuggery and mass murder for fun and profit?

Arator, wake up. Obama would make Bush look like a saint. Please step away from the TV and come back to reality.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-08   14:18:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Jethro Tull (#112) (Edited)

Of course not, but AA uses color as a factor in the selection process, and with that comes unintended consequences. We'll never know what contributions to society were never realized b/c a black was given preference over a more qualified white.

AA is reverse racism and it's practitioners social engineers for the political left.

Of course it is reverse racism, and as such it is just as bad as the class discrimination practiced by the Republican elites.

Who knows how some well qualified white middle class kid might have performed if McCain or Bush's wealthy and influential families had not leveraged these two flunkies into the middle class kid's rightful position - rightful meaning merit based.

Every time an unqualified rich kid gets in on daddy's coat tails, a well qualified kid without the blue blood connections gets bumped.

And not only did a qualified white, middle class kid get bumped by Bush and McCain, but these two worthless clowns didn't even value the position they took from the qualified kid. Bush and McCain spent their time getting drunk and basically failed when the opportunity was offered to them. They took the opportunity away from a more qualified person and then wasted the opportunity.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   14:31:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: ... (#114)

Agree. Lets bag racial set asides, legacy seats and a dual standard of entrance for the haves and have nots.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   14:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: Jethro Tull (#112)

Of course not, but AA uses color as a factor in the selection process, and with that comes unintended consequences. We'll never know what contributions to society were never realized b/c a black was given preference over a more qualified white.

AA is reverse racism and it's practitioners social engineers for the political left.

While there was justification for Affirmative Action in its initial years in order to break down the barriers to equal opportunity its continuation has become nothing more than another "racial spoils" system.

It is my firm belief that its continuation is hurting black Americans by tainting the accomplishments of those who have achieved through ability and merit.

All that is now required, and would be the most beneficial for black Americans, would be a strict enforcement of EQUAL Opportunity and the prevention of racial discrimination. All Affirmative Action is doing now is fueling resentment against black Americans.

As well Welfare has been one of the biggest crimes committed against black Americans.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-05-08   14:50:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Original_Intent (#116)

It is my firm belief that its continuation is hurting black Americans by tainting the accomplishments of those who have achieved through ability and merit.

It is. As an example, if given the choice of choosing between an unknown black or white doctor/lawyer, I'll opt for the white doctor/lawyer. AA puts doubt in my mind, and this is unfortunate but reasonable given the unintended consequences of AA. Sorry for the brutal honesty, but I know I'm not alone in my thinking.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   15:33:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Arator (#32)

Obama has promised
Obama has emphasized talking
Obama has decried

Obama is a freakin' politician. Do you really believe everything he says? You sound like one of those "true believers" but you used to know--at least I thought you did--that you couldn't trust politicians. There was only one decent guy running and that wasn't Obama. But then Ron Paul is a statesman, not a politician.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-08   15:55:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: IndieTX (#44)

I will continue to say all possible to pursuade others never to vote the marxist gun-hating, war on drugs continuing, world- taxing, affirmative action loving, amnesty giving, reparation-loving, Farrakhan hugging, give your money to the rest of the world, white-hating, black panther forgiving, he'll close Gitmo but leave in place and expand other police state legislation so people love him on one issue, married a racist bitch, amoral Obama anywhere near the presidency.

Yep. I don't like him either. Despite the rhetoric from his supporters I don't think there is a hill of beans difference in any of the three.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-08   16:50:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Peppa (#55)

This is an angry man. A lot of hatred wrapped up in one man.

It's not just him either. That harpy/shrew he is married to hates whitey with a passion.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-08   17:15:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

My opinion is that McCain is every bit as destructive as Obama is, but he tends to hide it a little better. But don't misunderstand me, please. I don't blame McCain or Obama for "seizing" power. They are in the positions they enjoy because of many generations of manipulation this country has endured, abuse that is accelerating.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   17:22:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: Jethro Tull (#36)

Arator, personal attack aside, your points above are based on promises and hope offered by a politician.

Ah, the audacity of hope. ;^) McCain, on the other hand, promises globe-wide conflagration, which is no hope at all. When faced with such a choice, I'll choose hope everytime.

You know better, but his race alone is the reason, IMO, that you have looked past his 9-11 beliefs, his promise of an expanded WOT against al CIAda, and his love of large central government (read socialism).

"Expanding the WOT against alCIAda" is really shrinking it, since it will be coupled with a massive withdrawal from Iraq. I suspect the former is only to provide Obama with political cover for the latter, and prevent the GOP jackboots from painting him as weak on "national security". It's a tactical manuever to facility a strategic withdrawal. That's a wise move, IMO.

As for love of central government, both parties share it. The difference is this: under McCain trillions stolen from taxpayers will end up accumulating offshore (ie. in the accounts of no-bid defense contractors HQ'd in Dubai), whereas under Obama they might actually get spent and earned by real flesh and blood Americans here in "the homeland." If we have to stomach big government either way, I prefer the kind that spends our tax money on Americans living in America, not overseas corporate pirates.

Obama's race has nothing to do with it. If a white Dem (like say, Jim Webb) were running with the same anti-war platform, I'd be supporting him as well. I think you would too. So, why not Obama?

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-08   18:57:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Arator (#122)

Except you can't very well argue that Obama is anti-war. He's got Zbigniew Brzezinski on his team, and he's already said what he would do in Pakistan, Iran, and elsewhere to keep up the good work of the Zionists. He's been to AIPAC and oathed his fealty to the Jews.

He's just less aggressive about being pro-war than the others have been, more or less. But the audacity of hope is endless, I know.

Do you know anything at all about Brzezinski?

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   19:02:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: ALL, Arator, Jethro Tull, angle, a vast rightwing conspirator (#123)

just coming late to this thread and have only read 1/3 so far. not feeling well and been sleeping. just want to throw this in the mix for discussion.

Ron Paul is black.

christine  posted on  2008-05-08   19:32:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: Arator (#122)

It’s funny you mention “The Audacity of Hope," because his book doesn't offer hope. He calls for a "revised foreign policy that matches the “boldness and scope of Truman's post-World War II policies” -- “one that addresses both the challenges and the opportunities of a new millennium, one that guides our use of force and expresses our deepest concerns.” Hello?? WTF does that mean?

Obama's campaign should carry a warning: Danger! Foreign policy under construction

* Obama has suggested that bombing Iran to stop its nuclear program would be an option in his presidency.

* He’d shuffle *combat troops* (leaving other troops behind) from Iraq to Afghanistan to hunt bin Laden and al Qaeda

* He warned Pakistan's president, Musharraf, that if he didn't take out terrorists in his midst, President Obama would. "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will"

* Israel is “sacrosanct” and will be defended from all foes.

* He’s called al Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border’ a bigger threat than in Iraq. These 'terrorists' go in an Obama administration.

Add all this together and you have in Obama McKook on steroids.

So tell me again why this domestic socialist is a foreign policy saviour?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   19:41:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: christine (#124)

Ron Paul is black.

This wouldn't bother me at all, but I don't understand why you make this assertion just now. Please explain?

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   19:42:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: christine (#124)

Ron Paul is black.

hehehehe.....

You sound like me after 6 Coronas :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   19:43:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: buckeye (#126)

what i'm asserting is that it's not Obama's race/color for most (if not all) here, but his leftist radical politics and adherence to the Black Liberation Theology. switch Ron Paul and his politics for Obama and Obama and his politics for Ron Paul and i believe we'd all still be getting along here.

christine  posted on  2008-05-08   19:50:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: christine (#128)

Basically your lefty 68er friends just wanted to get high and dodge the draft. There are excellent, principled reasons for dodging the draft and making drugs legal, but those are the motivations here.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   19:51:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: christine (#128)

I get it.

Yes, blacks on the political right (constitutional side) are shunned by the MSM.

If Obama weren't a domestic socialist and foreign policy interventionist, he'd be a non candidate.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   19:53:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: buckeye (#129)

Basically your lefty 68er friends just wanted to get high and dodge the draft.

You say that as though it's not a good plan. Would getting drafted be better? Should I continue buying dope from the Mafiya?

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   19:55:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: Dakmar (#131)

I thought I was clear enough.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   19:58:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: buckeye (#129) (Edited)

Basically your lefty 68er friends just wanted to get high and dodge the draft.

Dance nekked in the park with a bunch of hippie women too. Don't forget that one.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   20:02:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: christine (#124)

want to throw this in the mix for discussion.

Ron Paul is black.

You mean, like Bill Clinton?

Or, maybe you are saying that it would be hard for a black guy to fully embrace Americas present and stay committed to America's future because of America's past?

Oh, just heard it from Obama: McCain is senile... well... he said something about McCain 'losing his bearings'. This IS funny.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   20:03:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: buckeye (#132)

I thought I was clear enough.

Good, because I'm at about 91% bullshit right now and wanted to make sure one of knew what we were talking about.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   20:05:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: Dakmar (#135)

So is this presidential campaign.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   20:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: ... (#133)

Dance nekked in the park with a bunch of hippie women too. Don't forget that one

Hippie hygeine isn't the best, but I'm sure it beats getting your head blown off by a Viet Cong. And pot's much easier on the lungs than Agent Orange.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-08   20:09:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: buckeye (#136)

So is this presidential campaign.

I hold no one on this site responsible for the outcome.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   20:13:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#137)

And pot's much easier on the lungs than Agent Orange.

Until paraquat. Damn, even Jimmy Carter is evil.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   20:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#134)

what i'm saying is that i think that the majority of 4umers would be in agreement and supportive of Obama if he had Paul's politics/ideologies and the same holds true if Paul were black. i don't think, then, the race card would have been played on either side.

of course, JT is correct. were this the case, as far as MSM, both candidates would be a non-entity.

christine  posted on  2008-05-08   20:23:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: Dakmar (#138) (Edited)

I hold no one on this site responsible for the outcome.

Now you're talking like a 68er. Those who side with the Establishment enable it. It's our obligation to provide a sound alternative, or at least sound criticism.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   20:24:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: christine (#140)

what i'm saying is that i think that the majority of 4umers would be in agreement and supportive of Obama if he had Paul's politics/ideologies and the same holds true if Paul were black. i don't think, then, the race card would have been played on either side.

Spot-on!!!

"There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the white community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the white community first and foremost."<-- I bastardized Michelle Obama's quote ;-)

X-15  posted on  2008-05-08   20:32:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: buckeye (#141)

Now you're talking like a 68er.

No, seriously, it's just not my cross to bear. The "Right" had their chance and blew it, I am not gonna vote for McCain.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   20:35:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: Dakmar, vote STEVENS! (#143)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   20:37:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: James Deffenbach (#120)

It's not just him either. That harpy/shrew he is married to hates whitey with a passion.

That's the impression I got too. I've listened to a number of speeches, or intro's, on YT, and at times it's her words, at times it's her tone, and I suspect that might depend on the audience to which she is addressing.. but she is one angry lady. When the waters started getting rough for Obama, I remember a morning interview show captured that boil and I thought damn sam, we got us another Hillary! ;)

On Michelle's thesis... fyi:

www.politico.co m/news/stories/0208/8642_Page2.html

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   20:38:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Fill my internet tubes (#144)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   20:41:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: Jethro Tull (#144)

If I can't find it on YouTube it dit'n really happen, right?

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   20:45:10 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: Peppa (#145)

That's the impression I got too. I've listened to a number of speeches, or intro's, on YT, and at times it's her words, at times it's her tone, and I suspect that might depend on the audience to which she is addressing.. but she is one angry lady. When the waters started getting rough for Obama, I remember a morning interview show captured that boil and I thought damn sam, we got us another Hillary! ;)

On Michelle's thesis... fyi:

www.politico.co m/news/stories/0208/8642_Page2.html

Thank you Peppa.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-08   20:47:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: Jethro Tull (#146)

THAT WAS GREAT!!

Had never seen that one!!!

Alrighty then.. a 'tube' theme eh??????????????????

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   20:48:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: James Deffenbach (#148)

Thank you Peppa.

ymw!

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   20:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: Dakmar, Jethro Tull (#143)

I am not gonna vote for McCain.

Jethro Tull showed every bit as much weakness as the Obama supporters for suggesting he might be a little better. The only "better" candidate was Ron Paul, and he sent out a Trotsky letter.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   20:55:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: buckeye (#151)

and he sent out a Trotsky letter.

I still see this as an overused cheap shot. Can we now talk about why he should've run 3rd party, started a new 9/11 investigation, why he can't win ?

That's where the weak and frauds resided.

I have no problem with what Jethro said. At least he provides some reasoning. The ophiles never explained why they spun a 180 from RP to the Otrain.

So as long as we are trying to apply a standard, let's decide where the bar is and apply it to all.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   21:00:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Peppa (#152)

Ron Paul disappointed me because he said he would campaign to the end if he got support. I figured that when someone like McCain got the nomination so many Americans would be disillusioned that they would look for an answer and Ron Paul would be there. It's not a cheap shot to be frustrated about his lack of energy and commitment to the race, despite numerous speeches to the contrary. But this past decade has been one political disappointment after another, nothing new about that.

To prefer one of these puppets is to let the Establishment have one foot in the door.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:05:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: buckeye (#151)

I hate him, but either he or O will win.

As a hedonist deluxe, I want low taxes, my guns and the least amount of socialism as possible.

Since our State Dept runs our foreign policy, he and Obummer are a basic wash, ergo, McKook might give me more personal freedom

Then again, he might not.

Whatever, as I said I'm not voting.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   21:15:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: buckeye (#153)

I figured that when someone like McCain got the nomination so many Americans would be disillusioned that they would look for an answer

The GOP seems to have become a megachurch in and unto itself, short of pointy hats. Now there's a congregation got some fervor alright.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   21:20:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: Dakmar (#155)

"Nothing but Trouble" with Dan Aykroyd. Funny

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   21:23:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: Jethro Tull (#154)

As a hedonist deluxe, I want low taxes, my guns and the least amount of socialism as possible.

What comes after another 12 years of that?

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:24:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: buckeye (#151)

Jethro Tull showed every bit as much weakness as the Obama supporters for suggesting he might be a little better. The only "better" candidate was Ron Paul, and he sent out a Trotsky letter.

You are implying that the 3 assholes are alike in every way. That just isn't true. They are not exactly alike. No human beings are. So naturally we will all have varying degrees of like and dislike for the 3. Yeah Ron Paul is better in our opinion. But if you are honest with yourself I bet you dislike some more that others.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   21:27:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: buckeye (#153)

From my email

May 6, 2008

Ron Paul will be bringing his message of freedom, peace, and prosperity to Kentucky on May 16th and 17th for two Freedom Rallies! This is your chance to come and personally meet Dr. Paul, as well as to have him sign your copy of his latest book, The Revolution: A Manifesto.

The first rally will be taking place on May 16 at the Bowling Green High School Basketball Arena at 1801 Rockingham Lane, Bowling Green, KY 42104. The rally starts at 2:00 pm CT.

On Saturday, May 17th, Dr. Paul will be holding a Freedom Rally at the Louisville Palace, located at 625 S. Fourth St., Louisville KY 40202. The rally will start at 1:00 pm ET, and last until 4:00 pm.

Come hear Dr. Paul as he lays out clear solutions to the challenges our country is facing, and be sure to bring any friends or family members that may not be familiar with his message. Dr. Paul's Freedom Rallies typically attract several hundred people, so get there early! We look forward to seeing you there.

Jeff Frazee National Youth Coordinator Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   21:30:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Old Friend (#158)

I think I like Obama better than the others, but it would be a cold day in hell before I would vote for him. It's really just because his allegiance to Israel is a little shakier than the others that I can even concede that.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:31:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: Old Friend (#159)

No doubt he asked for more money.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:31:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: buckeye (#161)

nope, I posted the entire email minus my name.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   21:32:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: buckeye (#153)

Ron Paul disappointed me because he said he would campaign to the end if he got support. I figured that when someone like McCain got the nomination so many Americans would be disillusioned that they would look for an answer and Ron Paul would be there. It's not a cheap shot to be frustrated about his lack of energy and commitment to the race, despite numerous speeches to the contrary. But this past decade has been one political disappointment after another, nothing new about that.

And he's still in it, and getting support. The Trotsky reference, is the part that the frauds used to ditch and run to Obama. That's the part others used to say Paul took a dive.

Buck, if you support RP, then stay with it. If you know in your heart that he is the only good candidate, then no harm comes from supporting good. Clean conscience and all of that.

McCain was brought back from the dead, to shove down the pubs throat. Most are just as dissapointed at this obvious slap.

Looking at the donations pub v dem.. or elite 1 and elite 2, the pubs will be slaughtered at the polls.

It was planned this way, and the race baiting is intended to bring about more division.

Ron Paul himself said his candidacy was not something he sought, which personally, I admire. That enough people convinced him to run, has brought many closer to what our country used to stand for, and I do not see that as something to hang our head over.

That his is the benchmark we hold the others to, is the strength, we may never had known, had he decided he wanted this for him, rather than for all of us.

The dissapointment lies in our inability to break the partisan chains, and the self flagellating that some rather we wallow in.

I refuse to fall victim to it.

Look how much better we have become at focusing on the important details of character, integrity, intelligence, and rational thought.

I see no shame in that, rather, strength...

To prefer one of these puppets is to let the Establishment have one foot in the door.

If not for Paul, we wouldn't even have been inside the door.

Look what has been borne through RP's candidacy! A CP candidate, a Libertarian candidate.. A rebirth of 3rd party possibilities. That's where hope and change can come from.

Considering most of us are reviled by both parties anyway, what's the harm in slogging it through?

The chances we will still be dissapointed are high. The certainty of it was ensured.

RNC is running scared and looking to change the rules by September.

That tells me, the people are making more noise than perhaps we will ever know.

There's no 30 min fix, but if it's okay with you, I'll still watch for the Hail Mary play. Deluded perhaps. Hopeful, why not?

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   21:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: Peppa (#163)

Thank you, Pep. Believe it or not, this was helpful.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: buckeye (#160)

To prefer one of these puppets is to let the Establishment have one foot in the door.

think I like Obama better than the others, but it would be a cold day in hell before I would vote for him

Well Buck, there you go. One standard for someone else with a preference, and one for yourself?

And you both are pretty much saying the same thing.

I prefer x, but would never vote for him.

Nothing wrong with that, afa i'm concerned, except JT provided his reasons. FWIW

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   21:39:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: buckeye (#157)

As a hedonist deluxe, I want low taxes, my guns and the least amount of socialism as possible.

What comes after another 12 years of that?

More of the same would be fine with me. Now there's a vote right there, see.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   21:39:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: buckeye (#157)

Revolution, I pray.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   21:41:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: buckeye (#164)

Thank you, Pep. Believe it or not, this was helpful.

Mize well do the HOkey Pokey then..

Everybody...........

;)

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   21:43:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: Jethro Tull (#167)

What would you want to come out of a revolution?

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   21:44:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: Peppa (#168)

Mize well do the HOkey Pokey then..

That song always makes me think of leprosy wards...

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   21:45:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: Dakmar (#170)

That song always makes me think of leprosy wards...

Want to have a face off in the corner? ;)

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   21:46:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: Peppa (#171)

How did we resort you slapstick humor so quickly?

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   21:48:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: Peppa (#165)

...except JT provided his reasons. FWIW

So did I. Both are actually hollow, since FEMA will neutralize any worthless McCain promises, implemented with private mercenaries.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:52:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: Dakmar (#172)

I've been out wallowing in white guilt. Met a bunch of rich white liberals down at the NPR office. We sat in a circle and held hands and talked about our guilt issues. There was a sage scented candle burning in the middle of the circle.

Afterwards we nibbled on scones and drank expensive imported coffee. They made the coffee in a French coffee press instead of a coffee pot. Everyone was wearing Tevas and hiking shorts.

So what's been happening here?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   21:52:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: Old Friend (#169)

the whole sale slaughter of the elite, the sacking of Washington and the establishment of a limited government in the form of 1776.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   21:54:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: Jethro Tull (#175)

the establishment of a limited government in the form of 1776.

Would slavery be legal?

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   21:55:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: Dakmar (#172)

How did we resort you slapstick humor so quickly?

LOL!! It's an affliction I guess.. hehehehe

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   21:55:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Jethro Tull (#175) (Edited)

I would like to see the old Athenian republic restored.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   21:56:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: Jethro Tull (#175)

Epitaph (King Crimson)

They'll be waiting.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:56:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: Old Friend (#176)

Would slavery be legal?

You think it isn't today?

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   21:58:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: buckeye (#180)

Slavery is voluntary today. Willing slaves.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   21:59:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: Old Friend (#181)

Which is worse?

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   22:00:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: buckeye (#182)

Let me think about it for a bit and get back to you.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-08   22:00:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: Old Friend (#183)

Let me tell you something, and you'd better listen up: they were, and always have been exactly the same thing.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   22:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: buckeye (#173)

So did I

If you gave reasons, I didn't see them..

I'd still like to understand though. I can't see how anyone that supports RP can swing 180 to Obama. Sorry. Don't see it. Whether its on domestic policy or foreign policy.. .. nothing.

But moving on, a person can make the leap to CP party and understand where some of the continuity is.. Beyond that, I'm still not sure about Barr, but then, I'm not up on my homework there either.

Both are actually hollow, since FEMA will neutralize any worthless McCain promises, implemented with private mercenaries.

None will follow through on pandering. RP doesn't promise to give people a thing. There's where you find the valley of rabbit hole lovers.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   22:01:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: Peppa (#185)

Ron Paul would not have the power to do what is necessary. That's painfully obvious now.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   22:04:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#178)

I'll see you the old Athenian republic and bump you Atlantis

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-08   22:05:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: buckeye (#186)

Ron Paul would not have the power to do what is necessary. That's painfully obvious now.

I'm not sure I agree with you there...

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-08   22:06:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: Jethro Tull (#187)

Atlantis was an aristocracy.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   22:08:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: Jethro Tull (#187)

I'll see you the old Athenian republic and bump you Atlantis

The New Age is a trap, ensnaring multiple generations.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-08   22:11:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: buckeye (#186)

Ron Paul would not have the power to do what is necessary. That's painfully obvious now.

The most I expected out of a Ron Paul presidency was that given the spotlights and microphones that come with the office he would get a few more people to understand why liberty must be first and formost in any just form of governance.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-08   22:14:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: buckeye (#190) (Edited)

The New Age is a trap, ensnaring multiple generations.

You seem to have anger issues. Care to talk about them? Maybe try some crystal meditation?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-08   22:14:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#178)

I would like to see the old Athenian republic restored.

Bush would have Socrates and Plato in Gitmo post haste for spreading subversive dialogues!!

"There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the white community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the white community first and foremost."<-- I bastardized Michelle Obama's quote ;-)

X-15  posted on  2008-05-08   22:17:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: X-15 (#193)

Well... the Athenians didn't dig Socrates either.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-08   22:23:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: Jethro Tull (#0) (Edited)

I’m beginning to think McCain will be less dangerous to my freedom than Obama

McCain would be like Bush 2, only smarter. So yeah, he would be heck of a lot better than Obama.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-09   0:33:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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