[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Rocker defames Charlie Kirk threatens free speech

Paramount Has a $1.5 Billion South Park Problem

European Warmongers Angry That Trump Did Not Buy Into the ‘Drone Attack in Poland’

Grassley Unveils Declassified Documents From FBI's Alleged 'Political Hit Job' On Trump

2 In 5 Young Adults Are Taking On Debt For Social Image, To Impress Peers, Study Finds

Visualizing Global Gold Production By Region

RFK Jr. About to DROP the Tylenol–Autism BOMBSHELL & Trump tweets cryptic vaccine message

Elon Musk Delivers Stunning Remarks At Historic UK March

Something BIG is happening (One Assassination Changed Everything)

The Truth About This Piece Of Sh*t

Breaking: 18,000 Epstein emails just dropped.

Memphis: FOUR CHILDREN shot inside a home (National Guard Inbound)

Elon Musk gives CHILLING WARNING after Charlie Kirk's DEATH...

ActBlue Lawyers Subpoenaed As House GOP Investigation Into Donor Fraud Intensifies

Cash Jordan: Gangs EMPTY Chicago Plaza... as Mayor's "LET THEM LOOT" Plan IMPLODES

Trump to send troops to Memphis

Who really commands China’s military? (Xi Jinping on his way out)

Ghee: Is It Better Than Butter?

What Is Butyric Acid? 6 Benefits (Dr Horse says eat butter, not margarine!)

Illegal Alien Released by Biden Admin Beheads Motel Manager In Dallas,

Israel Wants to Unite Itself by Breaking the World -

Leavitt Castigates Journalists To Their Faces Over Lack Of Iryna Zarutska Killing Coverage

Aussie Students Spend The Most Time In School, Polish Kids The Least

Tyler Robinson, 22, Named As Suspect In Charlie Kirk Assassination

How They Control the World and Their Secret Weapon

Newmont Pulls Out of Canada, Delists TSX

Eva Vlaardingerbroek's Warning: Elites Plan to Make Humans Immortal in the Cloud

The $7.9 Trillion Company You've Never Heard Of

CCP's motivation for (the Korean) war was to grow its military: US-China-Russia relations

Here is What REALLY Happened on 9/11


(s)Elections
See other (s)Elections Articles

Title: As Obama's star rises, fears for his safety Memories of 1968 assassinations evoked
Source: International Herald Tribune
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 26, 2008
Author: International Herald Tribune
Post Date: 2008-05-09 15:09:50 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 2407
Comments: 208

As Obama's star rises, fears for his safety Memories of 1968 assassinations evoked

From:
International Herald Tribune
Date:
February 26, 2008
Author:
Jeff Zeleny The New York Times Media Group
More results for:
obama and assassination


International Herald Tribune

02-26-2008

As Obama's star rises, fears for his safety Memories of 1968 assassinations evoked
Byline: Jeff Zeleny The New York Times Media Group
Edition: 1
Section: NEWS

DALLAS --

There is a hushed worry on the minds of many supporters of Senator Barack Obama, echoing in conversations from state to state, rally to rally: Will he be safe?

In Colorado, two sisters say they pray daily for his safety. In New Mexico, a daughter says she persuaded her mother to still vote for Obama, even though the mother feared that winning would put him in danger. And at a rally here, a woman expressed worries that a message of hope and change, in addition to his race, made him more vulnerable to violence.
"I've got the best protection in the world," Obama, of Illinois, said in an interview, reprising a line he tells supporters who raise the issue with him. "So stop worrying."

Yet worry they do, with the spring of 1968 seared into their memories, when the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. and Senator Robert Kennedy were assassinated in a span of two months.

Obama was 6 at the time, and like many of his admirers, he has only read about the violence that traumatized and polarized the nation. But those recollections and images are often invoked by older voters, who watch his candidacy with fascination, as well as an uneasy air of apprehension, as Democrats inch closer to selecting their nominee.

Obama has had Secret Service agents surrounding him since May 3, the earliest a candidate has ever been provided protection. (He reluctantly gave in to the insistent urging of Senator Richard Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, and others in Congress.) As his rallies have swelled in size, his security has increased, close to rivaling that given to a sitting president.

His wife, Michelle Obama, voiced concerns about his safety before he was elected to the Senate. Three years ago, she said she dreaded the day her husband received Secret Service protection, because it would mean serious threats had been made against him.

Among friends and advisers, danger is something Obama rarely mentions.

"It's not something that I'm spending time thinking about day to day," said Obama, who has been given the Secret Service nickname Renegade, a way for agents to quickly identify him. "I made a decision to get into this race. I think anybody who decides to run for president recognizes that there are some risks involved, just like there are risks in anything."

Not long ago, his advisers worried that some black voters might not support his candidacy out of a fierce desire to protect him. It was a particular concern in South Carolina, but Obama said he believed the worry was also rooted in "a fear of failure."

Now that he has won a string of primaries and caucuses in all corners of the country and built a coalition of black and white voters, failure would seem to be less of an issue. The fears, however, remain.

Representative Bennie Thompson, a Mississippi Democrat and chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, raised concerns in a letter in January to officials who oversee the Secret Service. Obama was already receiving protection, but Thompson said the intense interest in the election had prompted him to make sure that Obama and the other candidates were offered adequate security.

"The national and international profile of Sen. Barack Obama gives rise to unique challenges that merit special concern," Thompson wrote. "As an African-American who was witness to some of this nation's most shameful days during the civil rights movement, I know personally that the hatred of some of our fellow citizens can lead to heinous acts of violence. We need only to look to the assassinations of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and 1968 presidential candidate Robert Kennedy as examples."

In an interview, Thompson declined to elaborate on any specific threats that had come to the attention of his committee or the authorities. He said he wrote the letter to the Homeland Security Department without discussing it with Obama, whom he has endorsed.

"His candidacy is so unique to this country and so important that the last thing you would want is for him not to have the opportunity to fulfill the role of a potential presidential nominee," Thompson said. "It's out of an abundance of caution that I wrote the letter, rather than keep our fingers crossed and pray."

Before Obama decided to run for president, he discussed his safety with his family. His campaign employed a team of private security guards before he was placed under Secret Service protection. Since then, he has grown fond of the agents who surround him, inviting them to watch the Super Bowl at his home in Chicago and playing basketball with them on the days he awaits the results of an election.

Obama was reluctant to speak about his security or the period in American history that is often raised, without prompting, by voters who are interviewed at his campaign events. Mentions of the fate that befell President John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy only increased after Obama was joined on the campaign trail by Caroline Kennedy and Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts.

"I'm pretty familiar with the history," Obama said. "Obviously, it was an incredible national trauma, but neither Bobby Kennedy nor Martin Luther King had Secret Service protection."

Indeed, the assassination of Kennedy in 1968 prompted Congress to pass a law authorizing protection of major presidential and vice presidential candidates. In this campaign, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York has had Secret Service protection from the beginning because she is a former first lady. None of the other candidates accepted it during their primary campaigns.

Gerald Posner, author of books on the assassinations of John Kennedy and King, said he did not believe that Obama was under a significantly higher risk than President George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton. The fears are more openly discussed, he said, because he is the first black candidate to come this close to winning a major party's presidential nomination.

"Barack scares those of us who think of the possibility of an assassination in a different way," Posner said. "He represents so much hope and change. That is exactly what was taken away from us in the 1960s."


Poster Comment:

Twinkle, twinkle, little star..... (1 image)

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: ghostdogtxn (#1)

"Wishful thinking, JT?"

I was just thinking the same thing. He already claims the end justifies the means, so who's to say why this fuss budget posted this?


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   15:17:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: ghostdogtxn (#1)

The nation would be better off if he and his fellow socialists no longer graced this planet.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   15:18:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: ghostdogtxn (#1)

Oh, surely the people who claim to be worried that the assassination of Obama would lead to riots, which in turn would lead to a dictatorial crackdown by the government in this country, do not wish such awful things to happen. Especially when they keep saying how worried they are about the possibility.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Ferret Mike (#2)

Well jeez Lefty, the thought is hardly original given that it's in the International Tribune.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   15:19:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

The nation would be better off if he and his fellow socialists no longer graced this planet.

McCarthy was 100% Correct bump


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:19:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: aristeides (#4)

Maybe that's why the media created this empty suit?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   15:20:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: FOH (#6)

Commies need dying.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   15:21:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Jethro Tull (#5)

After your #3, it would be very strange if you were now to say it's not wishful thinking.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:21:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: aristeides (#4)

The CFR World Communist Cabal that you support leaves no drama out !!


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:21:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

"The nation would be better off if he and his fellow socialists no longer graced this planet."

You are a malicious and blood thirsty idiot Tull. Thanks for showing your true colors.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   15:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:22:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Jethro Tull (#7)

The awful results can be prevented by preventing such an assassination.

I get the impression from your postings that that is not what you want.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:22:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

Commies need dying.

If Commies/Fascists in America won't honestly reform, then yes their re-assimilation with dust should be greatly hastened...in the interest of self-preservation if nothing else.


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:23:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: ghostdogtxn, Jethro Tull (#12)

"The nation would be better off"???

I guess that means he really wants that dictatorship.

Even though it would probably mean, among other things, the end of the 2nd Amendment.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:24:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: ghostdogtxn, Jethro Hull (#15) (Edited)

"Commies need dying."

That's not all.

He thinks the rest of us are Commies too. Not hard to guess where that leads.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:25:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: aristeides (#9)

Does it make you feel better if I told you I would throw a kegger if Air Force 1 blew up on it's way back from Crawford? Maybe it's me, but I don't know what else will remove the political cancer from our nation.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   15:26:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: aristeides (#13)

The awful results can be prevented by preventing such an assassination.

I get the impression from your postings that that is not what you want.

It would be best if all quislings would just leave and allow real Americans to clean up what's left and try to move on...but should 1,000 cabalists ended up on pikes by dinner, I'd throw a massive celebration shortly thereafter.


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:26:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: ghostdogtxn (#15)

There aren't any commies anymore

Did they teach you that in lie, I mean law school?

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   15:26:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Jethro Tull (#18)

You did read the article that you posted? The part that says Obama is being protected by the Secret Service?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:27:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: aristeides (#16)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:27:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: ghostdogtxn (#15)

There aren't any commies anymore, nitwit.

LOLOL

No, they're called Progressives/Socialists/Etc. these days...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:27:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

Commies need dying.

And just a few days ago you were still pretending to believe the three candidates were indistinguishable peas in a pod.

Dropped that pretense, have we?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:28:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Critter (#20)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:29:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Ferret Mike (#11)

You are a malicious and blood thirsty idiot Tull. Thanks for showing your true colors.

His true colors are red, white and blue.

As opposed to you Ophiles and YOUR red


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:30:36 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: aristeides (#17)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:31:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: ghostdogtxn (#25)

Anyone who believes our tax dollars should go to help anyone else any where in the world is a commie, so don't tell me they don't exist. A number of them exist on this thread.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   15:31:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: aristeides, James Deffenbach (#24)

And just a few days ago you were still pretending to believe the three candidates were indistinguishable peas in a pod.

Dropped that pretense, have we?

I'm w/JD; I'd like to see a triangular firing squad made up of McHillObama...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:32:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Critter (#28)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:33:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: ghostdogtxn (#15)

There aren't any commies anymore, nitwit.

Excuse me. Neocons are Trotskites, Castro and his bro are unrepent Marxists, Putin is questionable, Chavez is a socialist, all of which makes you a douche.

Now go practice your shadow boxing, or glee club shit. Men at work here.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   15:34:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: ghostdogtxn (#25)

Google "American Communist Party". You'll find there aren't enough real communists left in America to sell out a Styxx reunion concert. Anyone still living in fear of "commies" needs to get out of the basement.

Yeah, most of them are called DEMOCRATS and more and more these days are called REPUBLICANS...

Keep doing the work of the mole !!


After Iowa


Happy New Year and congratulations on a job well done. These have been trying times when the hyenas of war have again been turned loose on humanity by a greedy ruling class.

Now, beyond all the optimism I was capable of mustering, Mr. Obama won Iowa! He won in a political arena 95 percent white. It was a resounding defeat for the manipulations of the ultra-right and their right-liberal fellow travelers. Also it was a hard lesson for liberals who underestimated the political fury of the masses in these troubled times.

Obama’s victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle. Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary “mole,” not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through.

The old pattern of politics as usual has been broken. It may not have happened as we expected it to happen but what matters is that it happened. The message is clear: we can and must defeat the ultra-right, by uniting the broadest possible coalition that will represent an overwhelming majority of the people in a new political dynamic. We must quickly shed yesterday’s political perspective and get in step with the march of events.

Frank Chapman (Communist Party USA supporter)
Via e-mail


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:37:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Jethro Tull (#31)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   15:37:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Critter (#28)

Anyone who believes our tax dollars should go to help anyone else any where in the world is a commie, so don't tell me they don't exist. A number of them exist on this thread.

Check your bozo count...;)


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Ferret Mike (#11)

You are a malicious and blood thirsty idiot Tull.

Perhaps a long stroll atop a pin oak will calm you down?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   15:38:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

I know personally that the hatred of some of our fellow citizens can lead to heinous acts of violence.

And to think that lot of the “haters” are combat veterans who are handy with instruments far deadlier than the .22 peashooter allegedly used on Bobby. My favorite looks like a beer can dispenser for a golf bag. It would result in significant collateral damage, however.

I just hate the thought of starting a civil war over a black kid who had a preposterous brain spasm that he was qualified to be the CiC.

PS. If the new confederate army can use a vet in a wheelchair, I’m their man!

karelian  posted on  2008-05-09   15:38:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: ghostdogtxn (#30)

Dude, you've just described EVERYONE in DC, and pretty substantial majorities of your fellow citizens across America.

How does it feel, then, living in a communist country?

Yes, it sucks, but we're not going to give up and run away to Socialist Ecuador...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:38:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Jethro Tull (#31)

Excuse me. Neocons are Trotskites, Castro and his bro are unrepent Marxists, Putin is questionable, Chavez is a socialist, all of which makes you a douche.

Now go practice your shadow boxing, or glee club shit. Men at work here.

The NeoCon-NeoCommie matrix the Establishment has trapped the sheeple in may never be broken until the Lord returns, but it won't be for lack of effort by the few (and fewer)...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:40:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

"He represents so much hope and change. That is exactly what was taken away from us in the 1960s."

Camelot, Camelot.....puddle of vomit.

"There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the white community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the white community first and foremost."<-- I bastardized Michelle Obama's quote ;-)

X-15  posted on  2008-05-09   15:42:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: ghostdogtxn (#33)

Castro, Putin, Chavez and the neocons are, in your mind, of the same political persuasion as Obama?

You're just silly.

You're a mole or an idiot, but maybe just a mole-wannabe idiot...

Thursday, March 29, 2007

Barack Obama's Marxist Mentor

The US far left is divided on whether to support Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for the Democratic Presidential nomination.

While both have cultivated a moderate image in recent times, both undoubtedly come from the left.

Clinton's youthful Marxist ties have been well documented, but it appears that even Obama has some socialist influence in his background.

Certainly the Hawaiian based East West Centre where Obama's Kenyan father and American met is a well known centre of leftist thought.

Now the Communist Party USA is claiming Barack Obama as its spiritual heir.

US academic Gerald Horne, a member of the editorial board of the CPUSA's theoretical journal, Political Affairs wrote this piece in its latest online version.

Horne is commenting on the alleged leftist views of US ethnic minorities.

When these sources are explored, I think scholars of the future will be struck by, for example, the response in Honolulu when tens of thousands of workers went on strike when labor and CP leaders were convicted of Smith Act violations in 1953 – a response totally unlike the response on the mainland. Of course 98% of these workers were of Asian-Pacific ancestry, which suggests that scholars have also been derelict in analyzing why these workers were less anti-communist than their Euro-American counterparts.


In any case, deploring these convictions in Hawaii was an African-American poet and journalist by the name of Frank Marshall Davis, who was certainly in the orbit of the CP – if not a member – and who was born in Kansas and spent a good deal of his adult life in Chicago, before decamping to Honolulu in 1948 at the suggestion of his good friend Paul Robeson.

Eventually, he befriended another family – a Euro-American family – that had migrated to Honolulu from Kansas and a young woman from this family eventually had a child with a young student from Kenya East Africa who goes by the name of Barack Obama, who retracing the steps of Davis eventually decamped to Chicago.

In his best selling memoir ‘Dreams of my Father’, the author speaks warmly of an older black poet, he identifies simply as "Frank" as being a decisive influence in helping him to find his present identity as an African-American, a people who have been the least anticommunist and the most left-leaning of any constituency in this nation –

At some point in the future, a teacher will add to her syllabus Barack’s memoir and instruct her students to read it alongside Frank Marshall Davis’ equally affecting memoir, "Living the Blues"...


According to African American Review of Summer/Fall 2003;

In Davis's case, his political commitments led him to join the American Communist Party during the middle of World War II--even though he never publicly admitted his Party membership.

Will the CPUSA back Barack?


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:43:26 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Jethro Tull (#35)

Perhaps a long stroll atop a pin oak will calm you down?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:44:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: ghostdogtxn (#33)

Looks like they've dropped any pretense of being anything other than what they are.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   15:47:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: aristeides (#42)

Looks like they've dropped any pretense of being anything other than what they are.

Yep, we're good old fashioned Commie-Fascist despising Americans that have had enough...way more than enough.


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   15:57:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: karelian (#36)

PS. If the new confederate army can use a vet in a wheelchair, I’m their man!

We can and you're in commander. I'll be in touch as the skirmish lines develop.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   16:04:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: X-15 (#39)

Camelot, Camelot.....puddle of vomit.

Zapruder.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   16:09:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Jethro Tull (#45)

If I were an agent provocateur wanting to get the crazies to entrap themselves, I would do precisely what you're now doing.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   16:10:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: aristeides (#46)

Silly goose. Hoping for a Change in the state of American politics is what Obama is all about. Hell, I'd argue what I'm Hoping for is pure Americana.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   16:16:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: aristeides (#42)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   16:29:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: ghostdogtxn (#30)

Dude, you've just described EVERYONE in DC, and pretty substantial majorities of your fellow citizens across America.

There, how does it feel to be honest? Yes, most Americans are communists now, and most representatives and judges as well.

How does it feel, then, living in a communist country?

It sucks. I can't wait for this socialist republic to collapse just like the Soviet Union. Only I hope the collapse is much more catastrophic and that we see a major thinning of the communist herd.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   16:31:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: FOH. the thread (#38)

The NeoCon-NeoCommie matrix the Establishment has trapped the sheeple in may never be broken until the Lord returns, but it won't be for lack of effort by the few (and fewer)...

That's about my take on it.

Satan's having a ball in his world.

Lod  posted on  2008-05-09   16:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Critter (#49)

It sucks. I can't wait for this socialist republic to collapse just like the Soviet Union. Only I hope the collapse is much more catastrophic and that we see a major thinning of the communist herd.

That's just the way Hitler talked (in private) about Germany in his last weeks in power.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   16:32:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Jethro Tull (#47)

Hoping for a Change in the state of American politics is what Obama is all about.

He wants to do it constitutionally and legally.

You know, the American way.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   16:34:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: aristeides (#51)

That's just the way Hitler talked (in private) about Germany in his last weeks in power.

You were there? I didn't think he liked commies.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   16:35:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: aristeides (#52)

He wants to do it constitutionally and legally.

Yeah, like expanding the unconstitutional welfare state, raising unconstitutional taxes, passing unconstitutional gun control...

You know, the American Communist way.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   16:37:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Critter (#53) (Edited)

I wasn't there. I've read a few biographies, and memoirs (by people like Traudl Junge and Henriette von Schirach who were there). Maybe you should inform yourself too.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   16:39:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Critter (#49)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   16:41:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Critter (#54)

Yeah, like expanding the unconstitutional welfare state, raising unconstitutional taxes, passing unconstitutional gun control...

You know that a US president can't do any of the above. Yes? You need to look at the other 2 branches.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-09   16:41:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: aristeides (#55)

Maybe you should inform yourself too.

I don't really care what Hitler was thinking at the time.

What I am curious about though, is why Oxford produces so many commies? Is that a commie institution?

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   16:43:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: ghostdogtxn (#56)

they're usually in other countries living from the loot they've stolen on their way out the door.

You can have all the loot you want, just leave us a free country when it's over.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   16:43:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Jethro Tull (#35)

Perhaps a long stroll atop a pin oak will calm you down?

The Pin Oak is not a native tree of Oregon. They have them in Tom McCall park in Portland, but I didn't climb and defend any taken during the widening of Front Avenue when I lived up there because of this and because it is undeniable that the project made the street safer and better for all users.

Living in a city does have it's considerations to weigh when one contemplates doing an action.

I would submit that assassination is more a LBJ and Bush family tradition, nothing good can come out of it regardless of the target.

I find your mental masturbation here repugnant and foolish.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   16:44:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Critter (#58)

Oxford has the reputation of being the more conservative of the two ancient universities of England. Looking back, I can think of one person I knew there that called himself a Marxist.

I'm sure I'm missing some people.

But just who are these numerous Communist graduates of Oxford that you have in mind?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   16:45:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Critter (#58)

I don't really care what Hitler was thinking at the time.

You should.

Remember what happened to him soon thereafter. And remember how history -- including history written by German historians -- has treated him ever since.

Germans are no longer particularly fond of someone who ended up hating them as much as he did.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   16:47:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: ghostdogtxn (#56)

In fact, by the time the herd gets thinned, they're usually in other countries living from the loot they've stolen on their way out the door.

Can you say Paraguay and Dubai?

Their exit strategy is already in place.

Lod  posted on  2008-05-09   16:51:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: aristeides (#61)

I can think of one person I knew there that called himself a Marxist.

Communists rarely admit being such. I think they would rather admit to being homosexual, or to being a porn producer, or even a drug dealer, rather than admit they are commies.

But just who are these numerous Communist graduates of Oxford that you have in mind?

A former president, a poster on this forum...

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   16:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: FOH (#26)

Your colors -- and grease paint -- are the same as Krusty the Clown. Go figure.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   16:52:05 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Critter (#64)

Oh, yes, I'm a Communist.

Whereas the people who are hinting broadly here about the idea of assassinating a leading candidate for the presidency are real true Americans.

Sure.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   16:56:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Critter (#59)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   16:56:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Ferret Mike (#60)

I find your mental masturbation here repugnant and foolish.

Oh My...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   16:56:40 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: lodwick (#63)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   16:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: aristeides (#61)

Oxford has the reputation of being the more conservative of the two ancient universities of England. Looking back, I can think of one person I knew there that called himself a Marxist.

Yeah, you moles haven't for the most part been honest for a long time about your intentions...but it appears it's getting safer each day to 'come out'.


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   16:57:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Ferret Mike (#65)

See, even red, white and blue gets perverted by you perverts...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   16:58:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: aristeides (#66)

Oh, yes, I'm a Communist.

That's the first step to recovery...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   16:59:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: ghostdogtxn (#69)

Yup. Any country where the officials can be bought and where they give plenty of warning before any attempt at extradition.

Those guys don't have extradition treaties...

Lod  posted on  2008-05-09   16:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: ghostdogtxn (#69) (Edited)

Given a choice between being stuck in Paraguay and being imprisoned in a jail in a country that has civilized prisons (and I'm afraid that's not true of this country,) I'm not sure I would choose Paraguay.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   17:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: aristeides (#74)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-09   17:01:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: FOH (#71)

"See, even red, white and blue gets perverted by you perverts..."

Where's the beef of your argument? You are harping a one note song over and over, and you are enough of an embarrassment to yourself your tastes bad, less filling style in here doesn't bother me.

Thanks for sharing, I am much amused.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   17:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Ferret Mike (#76)

You get what you deserve Corn Flake Girl...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   17:05:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: FOH (#10)

The CFR World Communist Cabal that you support leaves no drama out !!

Why is it that you hate filled wingnuts always go for the cheap smear when lack a rational argument?

Why don't you post your proof that ari suppots a communist cabal? I've never seen any evidence of this. But I have seen plenty of cases where you go into silly tirades and call people names like a spoiled nine year old. The present case is an excellent example of this.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-09   17:14:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: FOH (#77)

You get what you deserve Corn Flake Girl...

Are you hate filled rapture monkeys capable of anything beyond this silly name calling?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-09   17:15:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: FOH (#72)

That's the first step to recovery...

And now what are you going to do about your maturity issues? Stamp your foot and call people names?

LOL!!

.

...  posted on  2008-05-09   17:16:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: ... (#79)

--

FOHillbilly getting posting ideas from his family at breakfast.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   17:19:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Ferret Mike (#81)

He's slunk off again. He doesn't do well when people stand up and call him on his shit. And most would be bullies are like that.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-09   17:24:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: aristeides (#66)

Whereas the people who are hinting broadly here about the idea of assassinating a leading candidate for the presidency are real true Americans.

***********

ari, ari, ari.......here's a Nobel Prize winner who has the same thought as I do!!!!!!!

They’ll kill President Obama; Obama: At risk of assassination.

From:
The Daily Mail (London, England)
Date:
February 11, 2008
More results for:
obama and assassination

Byline: David Gardner

NOBEL Prize winner Doris Lessing caused uproar last night by predictingthe assassination of Barack Obama if he becomes the first black U.S. president.

The 88- year-old novelists remarks came as the Democratic candidate toasted themost successful day in his White House campaign.

Mr Obama, the 46- year-old son of a black Kenyan man and a white American,dismissed Mrs Lessings comments.

Mrs Lessing said: He would probably not last long, a black man in the positionof president. They would kill him.

She said it would be better if Mrs Clinton, 60, became Americas first womanpresident with Obama as her running mate. Hillary is a very sharp lady. Itmight be calmer if she wins, she told a Swedish newspaper.

But one Democratic analyst said: Suggesting Obama is in danger if he wins theelection in November is not only divisive, it is insulting to the Americanpeople.

Princeton University political science professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell raisedassassination fears last month, saying: For many black supporters, there is alot of anxiety that he will be killed. It is on peoples minds.

You cant make a prediction like thislike he has a 50 per cent chance of getting shot. But the greater hisvisibility and the greater his access to people, there is a danger.

It is not the first time Mrs Lessing has caused controversy in the U.S. Lastyear she claimed the September 11, 2001 attack on the World Trade Centre wasnot as significant as the IRAs terror campaign.

Many people died, two prominent buildings fell, but it was neither as terriblenor as extraordinary as they think, she said.

Do you know what people forget? That the IRA attacked with bombs against ourgovernment. It killed several people while a Conservative congress was beingheld and in which the prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, was [attending].People forget.

Last month, TV host Harry Smith caused an outcry, asking Ted Kennedy, brotherof assassinated President John F. Kennedy: Sometimes agents of change end upbeing targets. Doesnt it make you at all fearful?

Black presidential candidate Jesse Jackson received death threats during hiscampaigns in the Eighties and former Secretary of State Colin Powell ruled outa White House run after his wife feared he would be killed.

Illinois senator Mr Obama chalked up a clean sweep in voting on Saturday to winfresh momentum in his deadlocked race with Hillary Clinton for the Democraticparty presidential nomination.

He easily won the Louisiana primary and caucuses in Nebraska and Washingtonstate, as well as a victory in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

The gains cut into the former first ladys slim lead, leaving Mr Obama ahead ina Newsweek poll by 42 per cent to 41 per cent

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   17:30:22 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: ... (#82)

"He's slunk off again. He doesn't do well when people stand up and call him on his shit. And most would be bullies are like that."

True. He can always find an open hamster wheel of a thread to exercise on at Free Republic for a change of pace.

Bullies hate competition, which is why they are a protected species at FR by virtue of the most restrictive moderation policy of any political forum on the Internet.

Bullies thrive at FR, and they get tips on how to act socially from the likes of the BillO bar of bluster on Fox. I wonder what his nick is there.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   17:32:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Ferret Mike (#60)

They have them in Tom McCall park in Portland, but I didn't climb and defend any taken during the widening of Front Avenue when I lived up there

Mike, you couldn't climb and defend a tree house so please stop living in some make believe world. Lets put it this way, If I found you sitting in a tree I owned, I'd have both you, and the Great spotted owl you were protecting, mounted over my mantel.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   17:41:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: aristeides (#52)

He wants to do it constitutionally and legally.

He wants to swell central government like a tick attached to the bottom of your belly. This isn't American and neither are his acolytes.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   17:49:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Jethro Tull (#85)

"Mike, you could climb and defend a tree house so please stop living in some make believe world. Lets put it this way, If I found you sitting in a tree I owned, I'd have both you, and the Great spotted owl you were protecting, mounted over my mantel."

In doing non-violent civil disobedience one must always be mindful that this is part of the range of outcomes.

Interesting hypothetical, but interestingly enough I have yet to do a sit on private land. And when I have protected a tree near someone's home, I have been careful to get feedback from them.

At the sit at the Sheldon McMurphy House in Eugene, the city's only museum, a little fella from an apartment complex came over and sprayed me with the water hose on the front lawn.

Sterling is his name and he giggled like a school girl the whole time he did this. But he didn't do it long, as though it was early spring and cold, I didn't react one iota to his childishness.

What finally did happen was the Eugene Police Department who learned of his attempts to discomfort me -- and there were several -- was the entity that told him to cease and desist his harassment.

I am amused that when I do run into Sterling, he always has one of his large, highly muscular pit bulls with him while he talks shit. I don't respond in a way that feeds any baiting he decides to do at the moment, and I also don't avoid him either. Him doing this without the dogs possibly would be a far more interesting spectacle, I wil say that. ;-D

I would say that if I was in a tree of yours' do what you feel you have to do, but that it is easy to win a battle and lose a war. Making a tree sitter into a martyr and going to prison for the effort is hardly worth it.

Remember that with tree sitters, they climb up, but sooner or later they have to climb down. Your continuum of use of force in regards to tree sitters is foolish and would in the end cost you more then a continuum of force that took more then your wounded male ego into consideration when formulated in mind to be used against non- violent dissidents.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   17:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Ferret Mike (#87)

Your continuum of use of force in regards to tree sitters is foolish and would in the end cost you more then a continuum of force that took more then your wounded male ego into consideration when formulated in mind to be used against non- violent dissidents.

Actually I think I'm buying into this non-violent thing of yours.

I think I'd just steal your toilet paper while you're up in your perch and watch the fun (from a safe distance, of course)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   18:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: FOH (#70)

Yeah, you moles haven't for the most part been honest for a long time about your intentions...but it appears it's getting safer each day to 'come out'.

Why is it always a loony conspiracy with you wingnuts? Everyone who has facts or logic at their disposal is a "mole" or an "operative".

Did it ever dawn on you that people simply read up on the issue and have opinions beyond the narrow, single sentence, hate filled view of the world that your pastor loads into your brain?

Think about it. While you dance around shaking your snakes and babbling in tongues, other people are reading serious works on the political system. And this is the root cause of your frustration. And this is why you can't do more than call people silly names when they present facts you disagree with.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-09   18:08:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Jethro Tull (#88) (Edited)

Actually I think I'm buying into this non-violent thing of yours.

I think I'd just steal your toilet paper while you're up in your perch and watch the fun (from a safe distance, of course)

We use a five gallon bucket to do arboreal crapping business with when in a sit. We use moss for the TP and as an anti-oder measure that also make emptying and clearing the bucket easier.

I don't think I've ever used TP while aloft. I mean, think of the irony, I'm just not that gauche a guy.

But just for you I would let you photograph me breaking protocol by flipping you the bird at you if I am ever in a sit you come to visit.

Hey, what are friends for, right? ;-)


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-09   18:13:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Jethro Tull (#83)

Oh, plenty of people have thought of the possibility of Obama being assassinated.

But only real jerks want it to happen.

Make that real un-American jerks.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   18:57:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: aristeides (#91) (Edited)

Oh, plenty of people have thought of the possibility of Obama being assassinated.

But only real jerks want it to happen.

Make that real un-American jerks.

Like the ones who damn this country from the pulpit. Yeah, those kind of jerks would be out of business if America elected a half black man as President.

Or maybe you are talking about the kind of jerks who won't pledge allegiance this country, won't wear a flag pin, won't put their hand over their heart during the national anthem.

Maybe those kind of jerks want Obama to go away, since Obama is so patriotic and all.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-09   19:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: aristeides (#91)

Make that real un-American jerks.

What do you know about being an American? You support Obama. That's about as un-American as you can get, unless you supported Hillary too.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   19:10:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: aristeides (#91)

But only real jerks want it to happen.

Who would that be?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   19:11:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Jethro Tull (#94)

Read the thread, jerk.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   19:16:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Critter, aristeides (#93) (Edited)

What do you know about being an American? You support Obama. That's about as un-American as you can get, unless you supported Hillary too.

Aristeides is proud of his/her education. He/she can see things about Obama that we can't. You have to have a liberal arts education to see it. Any degree in science disqualifies you. According to most in the liberal arts world, people with science degrees are uneducated. Logic and Obama don't go together well, so he must chant "change, change, change", regardless of the fact most of his white supporters have no idea what kind of change he is talking about and he sure the heck isn't going to tell them the truth.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-09   19:18:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: RickyJ, aristeides, Jethro Tull (#96)

Read the thread, jerk.

Aristeides is proud of his/her education.

One would think that they would teach a more colorful style of insult at Oxford.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   19:22:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: RickyJ (#96)

The education of anyone who thinks assassinations are okay has obviously been woefully deficient.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-09   19:23:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: aristeides (#95)

Pshaw...

Presidential assassinations; An unspoken fear stalks the 2008 hustings.(OPED)

From:
The Washington Times
Date:
March 6, 2008
More results for:
obama and assassination

Byline: Suzanne Fields, THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Assassination is something none us like to talk about, but it's nevertheless an unhappy part of the history of the presidency. Nearly 10 percent of our 43 presidents have died at the hand of assassins, and attempts were made on a half-dozen others. The prospect of assassination is a legitimate concern for the presidential candidates, their families and for the rest of us.

The Secret Service, which guards presidents and presidential candidates, naturally declines to talk about assassination, or any of the details of how it protects anyone. The Internet further attracts weird characters, many of them blowhards armed only with a laptop and a neurotic grievance who would have difficulty plotting a successful trip to the bathroom. But threats have to be taken seriously. Reporters accompanying Barack Obama have lately noticed a growing number of agents in the Obama traveling party, conspicuous for their haircuts, neat dark suits and modest ties and tiny yellow badges worn on the lapels of their suits.

Some people who ought to know better even speculate about the likelihood of the assassination of specific candidates. Doris Lessing, the 82-year-old winner of the Nobel Prize for literature last year, says Mr. Obama "would certainly not last long, a black man in the position of president." She thinks "the best thing would be if [Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama] would run together. Hillary is a very sharp lady. It might be calmer if she were to win, and not Obama." This merely sounds like a clumsy endorsement better left unsaid.

Newspapers here and abroad have taken note of the buzz about assassination, and Ben Olken, a professor of economics at Harvard, has even quantified the "Effects of Assassinations on Institutions and War," and finds, no small irony, that the assassins rarely accomplish what they set out to do. Together with his research associate, Ben Jones, an economist at Northwestern University, he studied the economic conditions surrounding dozens of assassination attempts on heads of state, some successful and some not, throughout the world over the past 125 years. They discovered, for one startling example, that assassination usually has no effect on starting wars, and "suggests that World War I might have begun regardless of whether the attempt on the life of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914 had succeeded or failed."

Assassination buzz spawns speculation, mostly partisan and some of it mean-spirited, about who the assassins would be. There's the inevitable attempt to invoke race and assume that because Barack Obama is a black man, his lethal tormentors will be Southern rednecks. But the history of the four presidential assassinations in our history were largely the work of deranged hangers-on at the margins of society, driven by personal jealousies and demons and pathetic delusions of fame and celebrity. The public revulsion by both black and white to the subtle invocation of race in the Democratic primary campaign suggests strongly that this is not your grandfather's America.

The deranged among us come in the usual partisan guises, liberal and conservative, Republican and Democrat. Of our four presidential assassins, two were motivated by politics, loosely defined; one was an embittered actor and Confederate partisan, and one was an angry disappointed office-seeker.

John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald are the best known of the four assassins and decades after their deeds arguments still rage over what conspiracies, if any, led to Ford's Theater in Washington and the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas.

In the accepted accounts of what happened, Booth was shot and killed several days after he killed Abraham Lincoln, and Oswald was shot while in police custody by a low-life trying to impress Jackie Kennedy, two days after he killed John F. Kennedy. But some historians argue that Union soldiers killed a man that they only thought, or wanted to think, was Booth, that he actually escaped to live out a long life under an assumed identity. Most historians accept the accounts that Oswald was, in Jackie Kennedy's famous remark, "a silly little Communist," acting alone. Conspiracy fantasies die hard.

There's no debate about the assassins of James Garfield and William McKinley. Garfield was shot down by Charles Guiteau, angry because McKinley wouldn't appoint him U.S. consul in Paris. He might not have died if his doctors had not been such blundering butchers; one of them, probing for the bullet with an unsterile finger, punctured his liver. Leon Czolgosz, an anarchist trying to impress Emma Goldman, shot McKinley at the Pan American Exposition in Buffalo.

We're still fascinated by the details of assassination, but it ought to impress the nuts among us that assassins never change the course of history, and they all wind up ignominiously dead.

* Suzanne Fields, a columnist for The Washington Times, is nationally syndicated. Her column appears on Mondays and Thursdays. E-mail: sfields1000@aol.com.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   19:43:10 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Jethro Tull (#99)

See more articles from The Washington Times

I'll take the lobotomy for 200, Alex!

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   19:57:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

The only time you get your brains splattered in public in the USA is if you threaten to tell the truth, and threaten to really install change.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2008-05-09   19:59:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Kamala, Jethro Tull, Dakmar (#101)

Should Obama get it, the Mossad will pin it on a lone white supremecist.

They probably have the next Oswald already picked out-- "Here's a C-Note, Billybob, deliver this package up to the sixth floor."

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

wbales  posted on  2008-05-09   20:06:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: wbales (#102)

Should Obama get it, the Mossad will pin it on a lone white supremecist.

One More Time:

There was a farmer had a dog...

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   20:11:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Dakmar, Kamala, wbales, Jack Ruby, Sirhan Sirhan, Abraham, Martin and John (#100)

I mean it isn't like I'm the one comparing O to JFK.

Jeebers....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: wbales (#102)

Should Obama get it, the Mossad will pin it on a lone white supremecist.

On the other hand, inner city rioting would certainly put what's left of the middle class ill at ease. Which disproportionate use of force by police will be the one that sets it off? Looks like it's going to be a long, hot summer.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   20:20:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Jethro Tull (#104)

I didn't read the whole thread, I was really bad and yessir deserve to be punished alright, I just don't know what comes over me.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   20:23:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Jethro Tull (#104)

I mean it isn't like I'm the one comparing O to JFK.

Is Lloyd Bensen still around? We could get Barack and Dan Quayle up on stage at the same time, let someone who knew JFK tell me who I should vote for.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   20:27:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Dakmar (#106)

Your only way out of the mess you're in is to petition your city council to rename the largest avenue in your area, Martin Luther King Boulevard.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:28:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Jethro Tull (#104)

Sirhan?!?

Should the big O get elected, maybe Olmert will pardon Sirhan in time for the inauguration.

But, of course, this all assumes Obama isn't a major league Israel ass kisser (which he is). As long as he obeys Israel, he'll be safe.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

wbales  posted on  2008-05-09   20:31:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Dakmar (#105)

On the other hand, inner city rioting would certainly put what's left of the middle class ill at ease.

Although there would certainly be massive rioting, I think a large number of American blacks would immediately think at Israel.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

wbales  posted on  2008-05-09   20:36:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Jethro Tull (#108)

My doorknob keeps on turning, there must be spooks around my bed.

Robert Johnson- Malted Milk

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   20:36:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: wbales (#109)

How Barack Obama learned to love Israel
Ali Abunimah, The Electronic Intifada, 4 March 2007

(EI Illustration)


I first met Democratic presidential hopeful Senator Barack Obama almost ten years ago when, as my representative in the Illinois state senate, he came to speak at the University of Chicago. He impressed me as progressive, intelligent and charismatic. I distinctly remember thinking 'if only a man of this calibre could become president one day.'

On Friday Obama gave a speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in Chicago. It had been much anticipated in American Jewish political circles which buzzed about his intensive efforts to woo wealthy pro-Israel campaign donors who up to now have generally leaned towards his main rival Senator Hillary Clinton.

Reviewing the speech, Ha'aretz Washington correspondent Shmuel Rosner concluded that Obama "sounded as strong as Clinton, as supportive as Bush, as friendly as Giuliani. At least rhetorically, Obama passed any test anyone might have wanted him to pass. So, he is pro-Israel. Period."

Israel is "our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy," Obama said, assuring his audience that "we must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs." Such advanced multi-billion dollar systems he asserted, would help Israel "deter missile attacks from as far as Tehran and as close as Gaza." As if the starved, besieged and traumatized population of Gaza are about to develop intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Obama offered not a single word of criticism of Israel, of its relentless settlement and wall construction, of the closures that make life unlivable for millions of Palestinians.

There was no comfort for the hundreds of thousands of people in Gaza who live in the dark, or the patients who cannot get dialysis, because of what Israeli human rights group B'Tselem termed "one cold, calculated decision, made by Israel's prime minister, defense minister, and IDF chief of staff" last summer to bomb the only power plant in Gaza," a decision that "had nothing to do with the attempts to achieve [the] release [of a captured soldier] nor any other military need." It was a gratuitous war crime, one of many condemned by human rights organizations, against an occupied civilian population who under the Fourth Geneva Convention Israel is obligated to protect.

From left to right, Michelle Obama, then Illinois state senator Barack Obama, Columbia University Professor Edward Said and Mariam Said at a May 1998 Arab community event in Chicago at which Edward Said gave the keynote speech. (Image from archives of Ali Abunimah)


While constantly emphasizing his concern about the threat Israelis face from Palestinians, Obama said nothing about the exponentially more lethal threat Israelis present to Palestinians. In 2006, according to B'Tselem, Israeli occupation forces killed 660 Palestinians of whom 141 were children -- triple the death toll for 2005. In the same period, 23 Israelis were killed by Palestinians, half the number of 2005 (by contrast, 500 Israelis die each year in road accidents).

But Obama was not entirely insensitive to ordinary lives. He recalled a January 2006 visit to the Israeli town of Kiryat Shmona that resembled an ordinary American suburb where he could imagine the sounds of Israeli children at "joyful play just like my own daughters." He saw a home the Israelis told him was damaged by a Hizbullah rocket (no one had been hurt in the incident).

Six months later, Obama said, "Hizbullah launched four thousand rocket attacks just like the one that destroyed the home in Kiryat Shmona, and kidnapped Israeli service members."

Obama's phrasing suggests that Hizbullah launched thousands of rockets in an unprovoked attack, but it's a complete distortion. Throughout his speech he showed a worrying propensity to present discredited propaganda as fact. As anyone who checks the chronology of last summer's Lebanon war will easily discover, Hizbullah only launched lethal barrages of rockets against Israeli towns and cities after Israel had heavily bombed civilian neighborhoods in Lebanon killing hundreds of civilians, many fleeing the Israeli onslaught.

Obama excoriated Hizbullah for using "innocent people as shields." Indeed, after dozens of civilians were massacred in an Israeli air attack on Qana on July 30, Israel "initially claimed that the military targeted the house because Hezbollah fighters had fired rockets from the area," according to an August 2 statement from Human Rights Watch.

The statement added: "Human Rights Watch researchers who visited Qana on July 31, the day after the attack, did not find any destroyed military equipment in or near the home. Similarly, none of the dozens of international journalists, rescue workers and international observers who visited Qana on July 30 and 31 reported seeing any evidence of Hezbollah military presence in or around the home. Rescue workers recovered no bodies of apparent Hezbollah fighters from inside or near the building." The Israelis subsequently changed their story, and neither in Qana, nor anywhere else did Israel ever present, or international investigators ever find evidence to support the claim Hizbullah had a policy of using civilians as human shields.

In total, forty-three Israeli civilians were killed by Hizbullah rockets during the thirty-four day war. For every Israeli civilian who died, over twenty-five Lebanese civilians were killed by indiscriminate Israeli bombing -- over one thousand in total, a third of them children. Even the Bush administration recently criticized Israel's use of cluster bombs against Lebanese civilians. But Obama defended Israel's assault on Lebanon as an exercise of its "legitimate right to defend itself."

There was absolutely nothing in Obama's speech that deviated from the hardline consensus underpinning US policy in the region. Echoing the sort of exaggeration and alarmism that got the United States into the Iraq war, he called Iran "one of the greatest threats to the United States, to Israel, and world peace." While advocating "tough" diplomacy with Iran he confirmed that "we should take no option, including military action, off the table." He opposed a Palestinian unity government between Hamas and Fatah and insisted "we must maintain the isolation of Hamas" until it meets the Quartet's one-sided conditions. He said Hizbullah, which represents millions of Lebanon's disenfranchised and excluded, "threatened the fledgling movement for democracy" and blamed it for "engulf[ing] that entire nation in violence and conflict."

Over the years since I first saw Obama speak I met him about half a dozen times, often at Palestinian and Arab-American community events in Chicago including a May 1998 community fundraiser at which Edward Said was the keynote speaker. In 2000, when Obama unsuccessfully ran for Congress I heard him speak at a campaign fundraiser hosted by a University of Chicago professor. On that occasion and others Obama was forthright in his criticism of US policy and his call for an even-handed approach to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

The last time I spoke to Obama was in the winter of 2004 at a gathering in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. He was in the midst of a primary campaign to secure the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate seat he now occupies. But at that time polls showed him trailing.

As he came in from the cold and took off his coat, I went up to greet him. He responded warmly, and volunteered, "Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front." He referred to my activism, including columns I was contributing to the The Chicago Tribune critical of Israeli and US policy, "Keep up the good work!"

But Obama's gradual shift into the AIPAC camp had begun as early as 2002 as he planned his move from small time Illinois politics to the national scene. In 2003, Forward reported on how he had "been courting the pro-Israel constituency." He co-sponsored an amendment to the Illinois Pension Code allowing the state of Illinois to lend money to the Israeli government. Among his early backers was Penny Pritzker -- now his national campaign finance chair -- scion of the liberal but staunchly Zionist family that owns the Hyatt hotel chain. (The Hyatt Regency hotel on Mount Scopus was built on land forcibly expropriated from Palestinian owners after Israel occupied East Jerusalem in 1967). He has also appointed several prominent pro-Israel advisors.

Michelle Obama and Barack Obama listen to Professor Edward Said give the keynote address at an Arab community event in Chicago, May 1998. (Photo: Ali Abunimah)


Obama has also been close to some prominent Arab Americans, and has received their best advice. His decisive trajectory reinforces a lesson that politically weak constituencies have learned many times: access to people with power alone does not translate into influence over policy. Money and votes, but especially money, channelled through sophisticated and coordinated networks that can "bundle" small donations into million dollar chunks are what buy influence on policy. Currently, advocates of Palestinian rights are very far from having such networks at their disposal. Unless they go out and do the hard work to build them, or to support meaningful campaign finance reform, whispering in the ears of politicians will have little impact. (For what it's worth, I did my part. I recently met with Obama's legislative aide, and wrote to Obama urging a more balanced policy towards Palestine.)

If disappointing, given his historically close relations to Palestinian- Americans, Obama's about-face is not surprising. He is merely doing what he thinks is necessary to get elected and he will continue doing it as long as it keeps him in power. Palestinian-Americans are in the same position as civil libertarians who watched with dismay as Obama voted to reauthorize the USA Patriot Act, or immigrant rights advocates who were horrified as he voted in favor of a Republican bill to authorize the construction of a 700-mile fence on the border with Mexico.

Only if enough people know what Obama and his competitors stand for, and organize to compel them to pay attention to their concerns can there be any hope of altering the disastrous course of US policy in the Middle East. It is at best a very long-term project that cannot substitute for support for the growing campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions needed to hold Israel accountable for its escalating violence and solidifying apartheid.

Ali Abunimah is the co-founder of The Electronic Intifada and author of One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse


Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:37:58 ET  (3 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

There is a hushed worry on the minds of many supporters of Senator Barack Obama, echoing in conversations from state to state, rally to rally: Will he be safe?

Hot steaming pile.

This supporter has no such fears.

The Bush administration has converted you to a FEAR haunted sheep, JT.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-05-09   20:38:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: iconoclast (#113)

Meet Os VP

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:43:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: Jethro Tull (#114)

You're doing a yeowman's job of keeping commie panties in a bunch lately. Nice.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   20:45:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: iconoclast (#113)

The Bush administration has converted you to a FEAR haunted sheep, JT.

I report, you decide.....ho.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:45:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Critter (#115)

T/y Critter.

Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life :P

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:49:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Jethro Tull (#83)

NOBEL Prize winner Doris Lessing caused uproar last night by predictingthe assassination of Barack Obama if he becomes the first black U.S. president.

The 88- year-old novelists remarks came as the Democratic candidate toasted themost successful day in his White House campaign.

Doris Lessing?

For crysakes is there no limit to your reach for Obama nonsense?

You're making a fool of yourself, JT.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-05-09   20:49:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: Jethro Tull (#117)

Choose a job you love...

You're a better man than me when it comes to that. I can only stomach so much before I have to go puke and take a nap. :)

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-05-09   20:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: iconoclast (#118)

And her thoughts regarding our new JFK are flawed???

Why?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Critter (#119)

To be honest, I'd like to be 15 again and going to a party in someone's finished basement.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:54:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: aristeides, cristine (#66)

Whereas the people who are hinting broadly here about the idea of assassinating a leading candidate for the presidency are real true Americans.

Can this 4um get any crazier or more racist?

And not a word from cristine.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-05-09   20:56:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: iconoclast (#122)

What? Where? How?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-09   20:58:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Jethro Tull (#99)

We're still fascinated by the details of assassination, but it ought to impress the nuts among us that assassins never change the course of history, and they all wind up ignominiously dead.

They do change the course of history. JFK was going to get rid of the Federal Reserve until a bullet to his head stopped that. Obama was never meant to win, he was meant to cause racial unrest and martial law. The fool can't see he is being set up becasue he actually thinks he is smart. Liberal education did nothing for Obama. I almost feel bad for the guy.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-09   21:05:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: aristeides (#66) (Edited)

Whereas the people who are hinting broadly here about the idea of assassinating a leading candidate for the presidency are real true Americans.

Hinting? The article isn't hinting any such thing, it is explicitly saying that many are worried Obama will bite the dust. Where did you get the "hint" from? LOL!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-09   21:10:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: iconoclast (#122)

Can this 4um get any crazier or more racist?

With Obama supporters posting here it can.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-05-09   21:12:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: iconoclast (#122)

Can this 4um get any crazier or more racist?

Hell yes!!

"There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the white community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the white community first and foremost."<-- I bastardized Michelle Obama's quote ;-)

X-15  posted on  2008-05-09   21:28:38 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Jethro Tull (#114)

Meet Os VP

More racist crap.

If you disappear after Obama's elected, we'll all assume you cut your filth spewing throat.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-05-09   21:34:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: X-15, iconoclast (#127)

Can this 4um get any crazier or more racist?

Hell yes!!

Porch Monkeys?

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   21:39:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Dakmar (#129)

HAHAHAHA!!! "...but my grandmother did refer to a broken beer bottle once as a nigger-knife."

"There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the white community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the white community first and foremost."<-- I bastardized Michelle Obama's quote ;-)

X-15  posted on  2008-05-09   21:47:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: iconoclast (#122) (Edited)

Free Speech on Freedom4um

It is time for me to address the issue of "free speech" on Freedom4um. My free speech means that I have 100% control over what I say and everyone else has 0% control over what I say. Now, I understand that there are consequences to exercising my right to free speech, but I still retain 100% control.

Free speech means that I have a right to express or spew thoughts and words of preference, love, hate, or anything with which another may disagree. That said, the rules or policies of this forum, which is my private property (see this forum's Mission Statement), are that members can exercise free speech as long as they (1) do not make a specific threat against an identifiable person or target, (2) earnestly debate or discuss the relevant issues that are part and parcel of this forum's reason-to-be. Let me remind you that these are rules for this forum and, as such, do not necessarily apply off of this forum, as public laws should, in most cases, be even less restrictive than private property rules and regulations.

Again, free speech on this forum means that people can express their love or hatred for anyone, any group, any race, any culture, or any thing, as long as they adhere to the two contingencies listed above. Everyone else on this forum is similarly at liberty to exercise their free speech right to challenge, debate, argue, or agree with the ideas and speech of another.

christine  posted on  2008-05-09   22:24:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: christine (#131)

Thanks for your efforts, it has been rough lately and prolly isn't going to get better as the cycle goes on to the election.

I think you're doing great, its a few others that I question, but I don't have to respond to their non sense.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2008-05-09   22:28:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: christine (#131)

I don't like dogs very much.

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2008-05-09   22:29:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: tom007 (#132)

thank you, tom.

christine  posted on  2008-05-09   22:48:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: who knows what evil (#133)

i love dogs, but i love cats more.

christine  posted on  2008-05-09   22:49:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: christine, who knows what evil (#135)

I hate dandelions and especially those weeds we call plantains. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-09   23:12:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: Dakmar (#136)

my pleasure, dak. ;P

christine  posted on  2008-05-09   23:15:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: iconoclast (#122)

cristine

Try spelling the 4um owner's name/handle right...?


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   23:24:41 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: RickyJ (#126)

Can this 4um get any crazier or more racist?

With Obama supporters posting here it can.

The 4um almost tanked because of the racist-Establishment-Progressive/Marxist/Commie/RAT/Socialist Ophiles...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   23:27:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: iconoclast (#128)

If you disappear after Obama's elected, we'll all assume you cut your filth spewing throat.

Better hit the bunkers when TSHTF then, you Marxist-racist-Establishment tool...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   23:30:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: christine (#131)

What a great 4um.

Even America-hating, thieving, racist, Marxist, Establishment knob-polishers get a voice...!


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-09   23:32:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: FOH (#141)

Even America-hating, thieving, racist, Marxist, Establishment knob-polishers get a voice...!

Having a hard time dealing with their arguments?

Oh well, you can always call them names. That's what immature wingnuts do isn't it?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   0:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: ... (#142)

I believe you're my very first stalker...I feel special !!


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   0:48:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: ... (#142)

Even America-hating, thieving, racist, Marxist, Establishment knob-polishers get a voice...!

Having a hard time dealing with their arguments?

Oh well, you can always call them names. That's what immature wingnuts do isn't it?

This one is just for you, trip dots. The photo was shot at Che Obama's Texas HQ in Houston:


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   0:52:12 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: FOH (#144)

This one is just for you, trip dots. The photo was shot at Che Obama's Texas HQ in Houston:

You trust Fox News to give you an honest image?

You're as dumb as the people getting suckered into buying big SUVs these days.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   0:58:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: FOH (#144) (Edited)

How do you say "Wasting money like a conservative" when you are speaking on tongues?

And why are you guys so bad with managing money? Bush and Reagan were as sloppy as you are.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   0:59:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: ... (#145)

You trust Fox News to give you an honest image?

You're as dumb as the people getting suckered into buying big SUVs these days.

I love my big SUV, thanks for noticing ;)

Here's what I trust 99.99%...I trust that you're one stupid racist Marxist America-hating Establishment knob-polisher... if you're approaching thirty years old or passed it, you need to call in the warranty. Major defective. Otherwise we'll just have to chalk it up to youth...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:12:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: ... (#146)

How do you say "Wasting money like a conservative" when you are speaking on tongues?

And why are you guys so bad with managing money? Bush and Reagan were as sloppy as you are.

LOLOL

You're funny in a sad way...talk about a bitter Marxist-cling-on. => Trip Dots


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:13:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: FOH (#147)

I love my big SUV, thanks for noticing ;)

Shiny new toy to excite the little boy, and a foolish waste of money.

Wow! You are a conservative. Reagan couldn't manage money either. Neither could Bush.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:15:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: FOH (#148)

You're funny in a sad way...talk about a bitter Marxist-cling-on

Anyone you can't respond to is a Marxist. And that's basically everyone.

You need to spend less time shaking snakes with Ted Haggard and a little more time reading. Then you could: (1) Respond to people intelligently, (2) spell correctly, and (3) Post more than a one sentence thought.

Just a thought.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:17:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: FOH (#148)

By the way, are you going to speak in tongues for us or not? Lots of bored people here tonight and your childish insults are old hat.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:19:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: ... (#149)

Shiny new toy to excite the little boy, and a foolish waste of money.

Wow! You are a conservative. Reagan couldn't manage money either. Neither could Bush.

Let's talk about that, trip dots, but first...you avoided this part, do you have any of your spectacularly brilliant observations to share wrt ?


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:19:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: ... (#150)

ping to 152


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:19:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: FOH (#152)

Only goobers like yourself buy into Fox Propaganda. They're probably the ones who convinced you to buy the eight mile per gallon car.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:20:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: FOH (#153)

You're naturally dull witted, and posting nothing accents this even more than your silly one line insults.

Why don't you post something while you are speaking in tongues? Now that would be entertaining.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:24:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: buckeye, Jethro Tull, christine, critter, lodwick, Cynicom, Peppa, TwentyTwelve, *North American Union* (#152)

A friend of mine that works day and night against the NAU brought up an interesting point...that "weird" (to say the least) breakup/timing of the Soviet Union's 'fall' was also just before a)Clinton/HW Bush went to Bilderberg simultaneously and before HW handed BJC the election and b)NAFTA/NAU was firmly ready to go, just waiting for Clinton to sign.

Gorbachev ends up over here preaching Unified Global Governance.

Coincidence...?


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:25:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: ... (#154)

ping to 152


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:25:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: FOH (#153)

Did Fox convince you to spend tens of thousands of dollars on an eight mile per gallon car that even the auction lots won't touch these days?

As Roger Ailes would say, there's a dumb goober born every second.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:26:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: Original_Intent, Hayek Fan, farmfriend (#156)

A friend of mine that works day and night against the NAU brought up an interesting point...that "weird" (to say the least) breakup/timing of the Soviet Union's 'fall' was also just before a)Clinton/HW Bush went to Bilderberg simultaneously and before HW handed BJC the election and b)NAFTA/NAU was firmly ready to go, just waiting for Clinton to sign.

Gorbachev ends up over here preaching Unified Global Governance.

Coincidence...?

ping to 156


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:26:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: ... (#158)

ping to 152


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:27:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: FOH (#156) (Edited)

A friend of mine that works day and night against the NAU ..

What's he do? Call people silly names on the internet? It couldn't be much more than that if he considers you to be a peer.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:27:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: FOH (#160)

ping to 152

Is Chuck Baldwin inarticulate and stupid like you are? And can he speak in tongues?

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:30:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: christine, Jethro Tull, ... (#162)

ping to 152

Is Chuck Baldwin inarticulate and stupid like you are? And can he speak in tongues?

See, I told you guys...it works every time.


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:32:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: FOH (#156)

In 1984 another defector source went public. In the book "New Lies for Old," KGB Maj. Anatoliy Golitsyn claimed to have direct knowledge of a secret Kremlin plan to fake the collapse of the Eastern bloc. He said the plan was officially adopted in 1960, that its target date for completion was the year 2000. Golitsyn's book anticipated the coming down of the Berlin Wall, the reunification of Germany, the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, and the Communist Party giving up its monopoly of power in Russia.

Golitsyn made over 130 predictions in his 1984 book. These were based on his knowledge of Soviet strategy and the psychological warfare technique on which it is based. A researcher made a list of Golitsyn's predictions several years ago and found him to have more than 90 percent accuracy. Golitsyn's predictive success begs further commentary, because as every social scientist or intelligence analyst knows, no methodology has that kind of success unless its underlying assumptions are generally correct.

www.worldnetdaily.com/new...icle.asp?ARTICLE_ID=19738
"Rethinking the 'Russia Problem'" by J.R. Nyquist, 1999.

But it's worth considering the evidence that Wall Street financed the destruction of the Czar, and fostered the rise of Soviet communism as retribution for the anti-Jewish pogroms.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   1:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: FOH (#163) (Edited)

Is Chuck Baldwin inarticulate and stupid like you are? And can he speak in tongues?

Hold on. I just found a quote:

Q: Mr. Baldwin, what is your opinion of the current currency crises now faced by the U.S. and the U.K.

Chuck Baldwin: Hurroooop snerk giberbiber whoork ptahhhhhhhh whortttt! Praise Jeebus!!

Apparently Mr. Baldiwn, as a Southern Baptist Minister, is perfectly capable of speaking in tongues. Whether he is as inarticulate and stupid as you are is still in question.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:35:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: buckeye (#164)

I think it all goes together...we've been effed since LONG, LONG before Reagan...but Reagan was just another player working 'our' side. Or so we thought he was on America's side. What a grand scheme !!!

Are you excited about getting your North American Zone Biometric ID card (and the Goverment Health Care, etc. that comes with it)?


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:40:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: FOH (#166)

Voluntary slavery.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   1:42:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: FOH (#166)

Like you, Reagan just wasn't any good at handling money. So why are you calling the kettle black?

Just don't spend huge sums of money on a depreciating dinosaur the next time Fox News tells you to. You'll be fine then.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:42:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: FOH (#166)

Do your badeye impersonation again. Tell us how you gave yourself three hummers without taking yoga lessons.

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: buckeye (#167)

Voluntary slavery.

You're going to wake up soon to an INVOLUNTARY concept that I've described (tongue in cheek admittedly, but accurate nonetheless) and then what choice will you make?

Fight, flee or surrender (just as though you fell for it like the Ophiles have...)?


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   1:45:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: FOH (#170)

Fight, flee or surrender (just as though you fell for it like the Ophiles have...)?

What if he just hangs out on the internet and calls people dumb names?

I mean, if it's good enough for you .....

.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   1:50:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: FOH (#170)

Every day is a choice.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   2:56:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: buckeye (#172)

Most excellent...

Dylan is a MN guy !


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   3:00:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: FOH (#173)

Look out kid, they keep it all hid.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   3:02:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: buckeye (#174)

Look out kid, they keep it all hid.


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   3:06:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: who knows what evil (#133)

I don't like dogs very much.

That's just fine ... just don't try to bozo too many of them.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-05-10   8:37:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: FOH (#175)

"Hi, I'm Chuckie the Cheese Baldwhine, and FOH is especially gentle shaving the hair that grows on my palms because of the intensity of the circle jerks us Cuntstitutional Party studs have together. So I let him post my picture. Cheers, babies."

This message approved by Chuckie the Cheese baldwhine.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-10   8:43:24 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Critter. the thread (#93)

Obama gets another one wrong, too funny -

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

Lod  posted on  2008-05-10   9:48:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: lodwick (#178) (Edited)

Obama gets another one wrong, too funny - www.youtube.com/watch? v=EpGH02DtIws

That is funny!!

Loved this comment:

baileygeep (12 minutes ago)

Reply "I believe the reason US americans are unable to find maps and as such as, is because osama of them don't have maps and as such as south africa and the iraq"..yikes, she was talking about the obama family.


Perhaps it's Barry who is 'losing his bearings'. Too funny.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-10   9:54:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: lodwick (#178)

He did clarify and include Alaska and Hawai'i at the end of that, he covered all 50 states.

I say him last night on the University of Oregon campus. He sounded tired and corrected another minor momentary mis-spoken comment about al Qaeda and Afghanistan. He apologized noting he was "on East Coast time."

I was impressed with him none the less and look forward to seeing him finally getting the nomination. It certainly was a huge and enthusiastic crowd, and he connected with it extremely well.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-10   9:56:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: FOH (#159)

Coincidence...?

doubt it.


Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'

farmfriend  posted on  2008-05-10   10:51:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: buckeye (#164) (Edited)

In 1984 another defector source went public. In the book "New Lies for Old," KGB Maj. Anatoliy Golitsyn claimed to have direct knowledge of a secret Kremlin plan to fake the collapse of the Eastern bloc. He said the plan was officially adopted in 1960, that its target date for completion was the year 2000. Golitsyn's book anticipated the coming down of the Berlin Wall, the reunification of Germany, the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, and the Communist Party giving up its monopoly of power in Russia. Golitsyn made over 130 predictions in his 1984 book. These were based on his knowledge of Soviet strategy and the psychological warfare technique on which it is based. A researcher made a list of Golitsyn's predictions several years ago and found him to have more than 90 percent accuracy. Golitsyn's predictive success begs further commentary, because as every social scientist or intelligence analyst knows, no methodology has that kind of success unless its underlying assumptions are generally correct.

www.worldnetdaily.com/new...icle.asp?ARTICLE_ID=19738 "Rethinking the 'Russia Problem'" by J.R. Nyquist, 1999.

But it's worth considering the evidence that Wall Street financed the destruction of the Czar, and fostered the rise of Soviet communism as retribution for the anti-Jewish pogroms.

It's called the "Final Phase" theory. I was a proponent of the theory for many years. Those who still believe in the theory have a web site and forum called The Final Phase. You would not like the place or the people as it makes Freik Repugnant look like a free love hippy commune. They are extreme government supremists who worship at the foot of the military and Republican Party. You are not allowed to say anything negative about the government or the Republican Party UNLESS it's about their refusal to buy in to the Final Phase. Ron Paul is an anti-Christ to these people and most, if not all were Duncan Hunter fans.

While JR claims to be a Libertarian (I've never seen his Libertarian side), his followers are authoritarian neocons who literally think everything that happens in the world is a Soviet/Chinese plot to overthrow the United States. They are ate up with this fear to the point that just about anything that happens in the world somehow fits in to this plot. I finally woke up to the fact that these guys are a bunch of scared girlie-men who are using the Final Phase as an excuse to turn the US into an authoritarian mecca in order to reduce their fear of life. They literally long for the strong-armed dictator JR talks about in his book Origins of the Fourth World War. It got to the point that I could no longer abide by their insane conspiracy theories, nor did my vision of American match their own. In the end, I was no longer welcome at the site. I wasn't booted off but it was only a matter of time before the self-appointed head fascist, Belmont Mark, booted me off for not towing the "worship government" line.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-05-10   12:04:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: Hayek Fan, christine, FOH, Peppa (#182)

Soviet Subversion of the Free World Press - 1984

G. Edward Griffin's 1984 interview with former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov reveals the same dichotomy: Bezmenov suggests that American dissidents are tools of foreign efforts at "demoralization."

But what happens when power corrupts America? Initially I had a positive reaction to Bezmenov. I still believe his intentions are good. However, during this 1984 interview it is clear that he did not appear to recognize the subtle but iron-fisted controls that dictate content to our news media, entertainment, and educational programs. By 1984, he could have had a conversation with Charlotte Iserbyt, who was already beginning to be disillusioned with Ronald Reagan's presidency. He could have met Eustace Mullins and discussed the Wall Street financing of the communist revolution in Russia as well as the Japanese naval buildup before the Russo-Japanese war, which helped to destroy the Czar's empire.

It got to the point that I could no longer abide by their insane conspiracy theories, nor did my vision of American match [their] own.
This is what made Ron Paul's message so appealing to me. When he talked about abolishing the CIA, the FBI, the Department of Education, the IRS, and the Federal Reserve, I suddenly recognized an opportunity to roll back the encroachments of central planning and totalitarianism right here in America.

People who internalized the Cold War appear to find comfort in painting an communist/western battle to the death for liberty. This is a retreat from the stark indications that the international bankers, some working for their own profit, others working for Zionism, and others working for ideals to salve their painful consciences, have been fomenting global tyranny for more than 200 years.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   12:29:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: FOH (#29)

I'm w/JD; I'd like to see a triangular firing squad made up of McHillObama...

That would be one of the best things that could happen to/for America. So it probably will never happen but I would give a pay per view price to see that one and I bet a lot of other folks would too.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-10   13:16:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: James Deffenbach, FOH (#184)

That would be one of the best things that could happen to/for America.

Absolutely FALSE. Political murder is actually a potential tool of our oppressors. I think the JFK killing was used as such a tool. Remember, these people are puppets. We can't liberate ourselves by removing a puppet; thousands are waiting to take their place. The death of a well-known personality is a painful shock that would immediately be used to manipulate Americans to accept much more oppression.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   13:19:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: James Deffenbach (#184)

That would be one of the best things that could happen to/for America. So it probably will never happen but I would give a pay per view price to see that one and I bet a lot of other folks would too.

Only 6 more months of this charade, but I bet it'll be the best theater in a LONG time...


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-10   13:21:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: buckeye (#185)

Absolutely FALSE. Political murder is actually a potential tool of our oppressors. I think the JFK killing was used as such a tool. Remember, these people are puppets. We can't liberate ourselves by removing a puppet; thousands are waiting to take their place. The death of a well-known personality is a painful shock that would immediately be used to manipulate Americans to accept much more oppression.

Yes, but see, in my fantasy it isn't just the willing puppets like Clinton, Obama and McCain who do the rope dance. If we are going to dream why not dream big and hoist up the puppeteers along with them?

As for accepting much more oppression I hope you are wrong because the founders of this country would have revolted (again) YEARS AGO. I hope the people in this country have about had a gut full but then maybe they haven't had enough yet.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-10   15:37:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: FOH (#186)

Only 6 more months of this charade, but I bet it'll be the best theater in a LONG time...

It already seems like it has been going on for four years. And after all that look at what the sheeple have been given to choose from. A socialist in a crusty pants suit who wants to give us the same wonderful health care system they have in England, a nut who is probably itching to start World War III, and a commie clown who would never have been given a second look if not for his color. America is soooooooooo screwed.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-10   15:41:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: James Deffenbach (#187)

Who are the puppeteers? It seems that through mass media and centralized education, many of us have become our own slavers, willingly oppressing ourselves, and others.

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   15:42:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: buckeye (#189)

Who are the puppeteers? It seems that through mass media and centralized education, many of us have become our own slavers, willingly oppressing ourselves, and others.

I think if you want to find the puppeteers you need look no further than the owners of the Federal Reserve. The powers behind the scenes who control what the politicians do.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-10   15:46:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: James Deffenbach (#190)

They have a panoply of interfacing, intertwined defenders and supporters. Not to mention the fact that we support them every time we borrow money. Puppets are lined up, waiting to participate.

"Relax," said the night man: "we are programmed to receive. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

buckeye  posted on  2008-05-10   15:51:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: Arator (#3)

The nation would be better off if he and his fellow socialists no longer graced this planet.

This is the thread I was referring to. Judge for yourself.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-11   12:23:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: aristeides, Jethro Tull (#192) (Edited)

Thanks. The quote and the context does make one queasy.

1968 was a disaster for this country. The spooks shot all of the most powerful anti-war leaders, the people's will was thwarted and the war continued for five more bloody years as a result. The coup of 1963 was continued and our government has been hijacked by the assassins ever since.

We don't need another 1968. Actually, check that. We need another 1968, only this time, the anti-war leaders live, win, take power and reverse course.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-11   12:28:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: Arator (#193)

And it's not just that one quote. Read the whole thread, and there's a lot to make you queasy.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-11   12:29:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: Arator (#193)

Yes, my opinion is that America is better off w/o socialists and socialism. Will I do anything, no? Will I cheer when the last one takes a dirt nap, yes. What's the problem with that sentiment?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-11   12:34:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: aristeides (#194)

Read the whole thread, and there's a lot to make you queasy.

I understand a carved out pumpkin head on Halloween makes you queasy.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-11   12:35:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: Jethro Tull (#195)

"Yes, my opinion is that America is better off w/o socialists and socialism. Will I do anything, no? Will I cheer when the last one takes a dirt nap, yes. What's the problem with that sentiment?"

You are dealing with imperfect and biased human judgment who and what a 'socialist' is.

I am against abortion and capital punishment because some things should be left up to the creator, and untimely death is a big one humans need not dabble in.

I have been called a socialist, and I want private property protected and free enterprise to remain a keystone aspect of life in the United States. The first one to my door wanting to take me out as one will suffer severe lead poisoning for their troubles.

You have problems with 'socialists,' I have problems with who does the witch hunt and how the hysteria and high emotions of said hunt and lynchings of the targets chosen wold hurt and kill allot of people who are simply exercising their Constitutional rights and freedoms.

I don't like purges, even if it is of people I detest.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-11   12:44:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: Jethro Tull (#195) (Edited)

What's the problem with that sentiment?

Resolving political disagreements via death squads and/or assassinations and/or systematic liquidations is right out of the CIA/Soviet/Nazi playbook. It is about as unAmerican as one can get. In a free society, people have every right to be socialist. In criminal plutocracies, where the wealthy and well-connected have systematically plundered the populous causing the distribution of a nation's wealth to become grossly askew, socialism is the natural political response. If you dislike socialism and socialists, then protect the people from being systematically plundered and economically debased by well-connected corporate pirates. That will right the economic balance and make property (and life) secure for ALL (not just a few).

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-11   12:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: Arator (#198)

Resolving political disagreements via death squads and/or assassinations and/or systematic liquidations is right out of the CIA/Soviet/Nazi playbook. It is about as unAmerican as one can get.

On the contrary, it's what America does best. Has been for ages. However it is that socialists meet their end is fine with me. I assume you agree that collectivism-redistribution is something we should all strive to eliminate, no?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-11   12:51:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: Ferret Mike (#197)

You have problems with 'socialists,'

Every lover of freedom should. Where on the planet has the confiscation of wealth, followed by it's redistribution, worked?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-11   12:53:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Jethro Tull (#200)

I am not interested in a reiteration of your statement, I am however interested in you addressing the witch hunt aspect I talked about.

Often the cure is worse then the disease with a right arm removed because of a benign tumor on the ring finger.

Care to comment on the main point of my post? I didn't just make it to reinforce your previous post.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-11   12:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: Jethro Tull (#199)

On the contrary, it's what America does best.

By unAmerican, I of course meant against the ideals of the original Republic, not the debasements of the malignant fascist empire that we have devolved into - an empire of which you appear to be a model subject, since you personally embrace and advocate some of its most loathesome and immoral "ends justify the means" methods.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-11   13:00:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: Jethro Tull (#200)

"Where on the planet has the confiscation of wealth, followed by it's redistribution, worked?"

Things like the new Eminent Domain standard of removal of real estate because someone else can make more profit on it for the economy and government are real dangerous moves and not to be tolerated.

I can't support such crap as this recent Supreme Court ruling.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-11   13:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: Jethro Tull (#199)

I assume you agree that collectivism-redistribution is something we should all strive to eliminate, no?

At the rate America's wealth is being stolen by the Halliburtons and Exxons of this world, redistributionism (meaning a recovery of property stolen by criminal cartels aided and abetted by criminal government) may be the only recourse left to us to recover the economic means to live.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-11   13:05:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: Arator (#202)

Where did you misplace your brain ?

How could you believe that the Socialist/Communist/Progressive Wing of the National CFR Party is one iota different, let along better, than the other Socialist/Communist/Progressive/"Compassionate Konservative" Wing of the National CFR Party ?

Brain snatchers...because surely y'all didn't just lose them.

The alternative is you guys see personal benefit from buying into this world class joke.

Sad.


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-11   13:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: Arator (#204)

At the rate America's wealth is being stolen by the Halliburtons and Exxons of this world, redistributionism (meaning a recovery of property stolen by criminal cartels aided and abetted by criminal government) may be the only recourse left to us to recover the economic means to live.

Any idea how much your beloved "D" Wing pretenders have profited from all this ?

Why did your beloved "D"s not get us out of Iraq after it was their turn to be elevated in '06 ?


Chuck Baldwin for President 2008

FOH  posted on  2008-05-11   13:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: Arator (#198) (Edited)

They did purges of 'leftists' in places like Argentina and other South American countries where right wingers did hit squad murders and ran clandestine prisons.

This is stuff right out of Jorge Bush and Dick breath Cheney's playbook.

We also are guilty of sponsoring the removal of Salvador Allende from office by assassination despite the legal and democratic means used by him to reach high office.

Augusto José Ramón Pinochet who we helped put into power put into effect harsh measures against his political opponents and systematic violations of civil liberties and human rights and for which he faced several criminal processes until his death.

Many innocent people vanished never to be heard from again in the bloody purge following the United States should how hypocritical the call to respect and work for democracy can oft time be.

I would think hard and long about what purges and bloody measures like you call for actually do and stand for before calling for them.


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-05-11   13:14:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: Ferret Mike (#207) (Edited)

They did purges of 'leftists' in places like Argentina and other South American countries where right wingers did hit squad murders and ran clandestine prisons.

This is stuff right out of Jorge Bush and Dick breath Cheney's playbook.

We also are guilty of sponsoring the removal of Salvador Allende from office by assassination despite the legality and democratic means used by him to reach high office.

Augusto José Ramón Pinochet who we helped put into power put into effect harsh measures against his political opponents and systematic violations of civil liberties and human rights and for which he faced several criminal processes until his death.

Indeed, many of the players in this current administration presided over plunging Chile into fascist hell and liquidating the "leftists" (who were really just economic nationalists who objected to American companies ripping off their chief national resource, copper).

That should give one pause. Any call to unleash the fascist hellhounds of death in this country could help to provide eager killers at the top encouragement to do just that.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-11   13:22:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]