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Title: OK, so a new forum opens and I posted these two articles without comment, and immediately got banned. WTF?
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Published: May 10, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-10 13:46:57 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 4186
Comments: 203
HERE Thank you christine for allowing all POV to be discussed openly and freely. The 1st amendment is alive and well on 4um.
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#92. To: Original_Intent (#88)
I have had the opportunity to watch Hillary and Robert Kennedy "work" a crowd and it was disgraceful. Both times I asked women leaving after the speech what the two had to say and the result was the same, "I dont what they said, but they said it nice"... Sheep...
It is also very VERY strange that people who were fervent Ron Paul supporters would pull an ideological 180-degree turn and start supporting a Socialist so fervently. Something doesn't add up in that. You don't go from limited government and libertarianism to massive Government Control and Socialism overnight unless something SERIOUS got tickled. More research is needed. Tomorrow I'll get a copy of Rules for Radicals and thumb through it, comparing to some of Obama's videos and post back to you what I find.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
As a student of logic and rhetoric I long ago learned to automatically look at an analyze what is actually being said. When you have a speaker who relies upon demgogic speech and vague assertions they have standard schticks that they rely upon. There are goodly number of posters on this forum, present company included, who don't just swoon over a candidate mouthing the right platitudes. I don't think Robin liked that because Oh'bummer was mouthing some of her favorite platitudes - like Goobermunt Controlled Hellthcare. Thank you OI. Perhaps she just heard what she wanted to, but so many know her history and intellect to rise far above such platitudes, that true concern and confusion set some extreme intervention into motion. And it was NOT invited.
I see it. It was overt and will not be forgotten. He intended to send that message.
Sadly, agreed. P.T. Barnum was an optimist - although a good judge of human nature. I wish I could argue otherwise but there are just too many people who will not look and will vote for any politician who says nice things and offers to give them things bought with other people's forcibly extracted labor.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Something doesn't add up in that. You don't go from limited government and libertarianism to massive Government Control and Socialism overnight unless something SERIOUS got tickled. Well, that's the same rock I've been beating my head against as well. More research is needed. Tomorrow I'll get a copy of Rules for Radicals and thumb through it, comparing to some of Obama's videos and post back to you what I find. That would be very much appreciated! Thanks!
G'nite again.. this time for sure.. :)
Come tuesday, I hope my white trash small town American friends send the SOB a strong message from KY and WV.
You are most welcome. I suspect so. Sometimes even intelligent people will allow one issue to override their good sense. The single issue "Abortion Voters" (on both sides) stand out as an example. I can even recall the comment made to me by one of the hard core pro-lifers (and I am pro-life myself) that "Abortion is not AN issue it is the ONLY issue". For Robin her issue appears to be government run healthcare, which she tries to insist will not be government run, and that overrides all other issues or considerations. She appears to so want to "believe in" the goodness of the "Single Payer" chimera that she will see no other consideration even though backed with sound reasoning. She has her mind made up and "does not want to be confused with the facts".
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
So what was the "sound reasoning"? Did someone call her "penis breath" or did someone call her a "commie"? I haven't seen it get any deeper than that - save for the conspiracy theory that Obama now manipulates our minds.
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Yeah it amazes me how governments that don't give a shit about the people always seem to have that in the title.
Found another issue with how I react to Alinsky prodding that explains much. Alinsky-trained folks trying to convince people it is "unresponsive government" or "greedy corporations" that are the cause of their misery. The gotcha is that I view greedy corporations as investment opportunities and I think Government should just get out of my way and stop its growth as opposed to creating new programs. I am the wrong audience for that kind of "organizing".
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
She also believed in government regulation of the environment.
So, robin is the People's Place ? I'm tracking now...didn't know she'd already gotten a forum license from the central planners. ;)
You don't believe that the gov't is regulating the environment today and it's been doing so significantly for at least 3-5 decades? Think DDT, mandatory 1 gallon flushing toilets, asbestos bans, unleaded gas, winter and summer gas blends, wetlands, clean water and clean air acts, freon bans, mandatory recycling, the banning of cow farts... some of these are 40-50 years old.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
So do I. I love his promise to make people believe there is change, though they do not see it in their everyday lives. That said, he can believe they voted for him though it doesn't show up in the count. ;)
Pep... I suspect a lot of white guilters in public are closet racists when voting. Cyni...
That makes sense. Its just so odd considering her efforts to highlight the destruction of the middle class, JBT's etc.. Cockeyed. If sticking your fingers in your ears and saying la la la la la la la la, would fix things... I'd happily join in.
Alinsky-trained folks trying to convince people it is "unresponsive government" or "greedy corporations" that are the cause of their misery. The gotcha is that I view greedy corporations as investment opportunities and I think Government should just get out of my way and stop its growth as opposed to creating new programs. I am the wrong audience for that kind of "organizing". One problem is the complete sanctioned corruption of the system. To embrace more of it, is just nuts. The choices are eliminated by virtue of access. This forces people to accept the only 'solution' offered, which transforms itself into a cause.
I suspect a lot of white guilters in public are closet racists when voting. Cyni... I'd be shocked! ;)
So what was the "sound reasoning"? Did someone call her "penis breath" or did someone call her a "commie"? I haven't seen it get any deeper than that - save for the conspiracy theory that Obama now manipulates our minds. Sorry yuktard no cigar - and you are going to have to look elsewhere for your "penis fix". Have some more Sterno it helps reinforce your "world view".
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Doesn't work. That's what got us to our current predicament.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Sorry I used the wrong childish insult in my example. My point is that what you call "sound reasoning" is usually the sort of juvenile insult you just used above. What I meant is that people probably acted like you are acting now in response to Robin's arguments. I didn't mean that you flung the specific piece of feces of "penis breath". I realize you have your own silly McCainBot stuff to toss out.
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Where there goes my backup plan! ;)
Voting and in the work place when a less qualified person bumps them out of the line b/c they are "guests" from some 3rd world slum or are simply more dusky.
...which explains the rabid nature of supporters. Guess I was born a hundred years too late.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
There is no conspiracy theory about it. Its a simple analysis of tactics. The fact that the tactics are generally successful has nothing to do with a "conspiracy" - it is how and what it is. Perhaps a little reading material would help. It will explain why the 'downtrodden' and the yutes are attracted -- but not many others. Its a handbook on how to get people "on" to your "cause" - nothing more, and it doesn't work on all people. Shows you how to make an argument and how to use the mob once you get it assembled. It still requires work to get the mob assembled. There is no magic bullet. There is no mind-control ray. Its just a psychological trick that happens to be able to zero-in on weaknesses and exploit them.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Guess I was born a hundred years too late. LOL!!! I feel that way sometimes too!
My point is that what you call "sound reasoning" is usually the sort of juvenile insult you just used above. What I meant is that people probably acted like you are acting now in response to Robin's arguments. I didn't mean that you flung the specific piece of feces of "penis breath". I realize you have your own silly McCainBot stuff to toss out. There you demonstrate clearly that you are nothing other than a Troll looking to create hate and discontent. Please show any post of mine where I have ever supported McInsane. You cannot. You are simply trying to throw out childish temper tantrums and disinfo tactic lines to agitate people and distract them into your childish feces flinging.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Well, JT, obviously you were banned not because of what you posted but because of what you are. Robin knows you and doesn't want you around, and that's her prerogative -- one you no doubt respect as her right in spite of your rantings. It's really a sad thing. I'm sorry to see it come to this. But you thought it would be a great idea to get rid of the bozo feature -- to change the rules -- because you didn't like what was getting posted here. It just didn't reflect your own political views. So you wanted the rules changed, and you applied suitable pressure to change them, promising to leave 4um if they didn't. Well, they changed. I didn't think it was a good idea. Somehow Chrissy thought that 4um was being torn apart. It wasn't. But the attempt to fix it is what really tore it apart. So are you happy now, JT? Looks like there will be a lot less Obama advocacy here so I imagine you are. Still it seems is was not possible to objectively discuss Obama here, and probably many other places, so maybe this outcome was unavoidable.
To robin: a patriot and a lady. You are missed, and you are appreciated. Your differences with JT and others are triflings compared to what we face together. There is no need for schism among us. Nothing will be changed by the vettings of November. But change it will come.
Well Neil, as my dear, sweet mother used to say, "That's your tale, I'm sittin' on mine." Because JT was invited out before offering any comment and his contributions were valid and would likely be allowed to stay up at even the more extremely partisan forums, I could with unproven and therefore equally valid logic say that robin chose him and this indefensibly craven means to telegraph a chilling message to all. "You either genuflect and lower your eyes before the graven images of my deity or, you're simply not welcome." Robin knows as well as anyone that JT has a real talent for asking escape-proof questions that force hypocrites and tunnel vision sufferers to face facts that the cheerleaders and party hacks for their preferred candidates never allow in "polite conversation." I'm sorry to say that robin is so blinded by love that she is completely dedicated to ignoring the primary chancres (or tertiary scars) of her syphilitic lover. And, sooner or later JT would get around to presenting the medical prognosis and eventually the autopsy report, and she has no use for any truth that her candidate/lover would prefer that his loyalists ignore. So, once again you've been caught humping JT's leg while accusing the victim of "asking for it" as mentally disordered sex offenders so often do.
Your premise about JT's contributions being valid are subjective. JT was banned not before offering comment but very much after, as you are ignoring the fact that he and Robin have a long history here. Or one that seems quite long. Too long. You can say that, but not with logic. That's simply your opinion and one you are fully entitled to. As one who has sparred with JT, my experienced opinion is that JT does not defend his own positions and has consistently failed to make any effort to understand me. I've no reason to think he's any different with Robin or any others for that matter. You may well disagree, which is fine, but it's no secret that a number of people besides robin and me see something wrong with JT. Humping JT's leg? I've no idea where that's coming from. You're the one singing his praises. But JT is no victim and that he'll freely admit I'm sure. He knows it's Robin's forum and that she can kick out anyone she wants. Only bleeding hearts would be crying "victim" over something like this.
You are the victim of your own mouth, therefore may I assure you that people view you with equal disgust and utter disdain.. Your foul mouth is a positive indication of your moral character or lack thereof, followed by a childish third grade attempt to deny and subvert the obvious truth. You are a person in total lack of common civility and barren of even basic social manners. Any assurance that I may have had that you were a person of acceptable decency and a practitioner of acceptable social mores was and is invalid. A self portrait was painted for all to see and it did not sell then, nor now.
Cyni, all I see is a cogent, well expressed and well supported opinion from Neil. No foul mouth at all. No incivility. No bad manners. But I do see a silly, frustrated old man trying to smear somebody with something that just isn't there. If you disagree with Neil, say so and explain why -- and spare us the over the top bullshit.
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No foul mouth at all. No incivility. No bad manners. You've missed a few threads to the contrary. I've been the recipient myself, to my surprise. Silly old man? Trying to smear someone? Cyni adds intelligence, and maturity as well as decorum to 4um. From my perspective you're sadly mistaken. Neil showed his mind on the thread where he went off the deep end for Obama and hasn't been quite right since. If you agree with his position, I'm sorry for you as well.
I posted two articles and was banned BEFORE comment.
Which makes me wonder why he was invited in the first place.
That's complete BS and you know it. The bozo was used by some here as a tool to demoralize, in the hopes of making that poster leave. christine and one poster in particular knows this is true. I saw it as no different than the goofy LF rating system which served to run off some very qualified new posters by making their comments all but invisible. As things stood, if a new poster came to 4um and didn't toe the D Party line, they would have been attacked by the usual suspects. That is no way to grow a forum, or welcome new ideas. I love the clash of ideas, even your obscene cry for the abolishment of out 2nd. Please do offer that gem again sometime in the near future. It's always a laugh reading the wisdom of an ex pat.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThere are goodly number of posters on this forum, present company included, who don't just swoon over a candidate mouthing the right platitudes. I don't think Robin liked that because Oh'bummer was mouthing some of her favorite platitudes - like Goobermunt Controlled Hellthcare.
#93. To: Peppa (#91)
There is definitely something at work, and it is more than coincidental that a group of people decide at the exact same moment to peel off in a completely different idealogical direction, with the exact same fervor, and essentially adopt the same debate 'style'.
#94. To: Original_Intent (#88)
Nicely put - the both of you.
#95. To: Cynicom (#90)
When we the unwashed white trash...READ... what he had to say about small town Americans, it carried the message to us he intended. He was looking down his long elite nose at us. To those in attendance listening to the ...ORATORY... it went over their heads that he was walking on we white trtash Americans.
#96. To: Cynicom (#92)
#97. To: mirage (#93)
It is also very VERY strange that people who were fervent Ron Paul supporters would pull an ideological 180-degree turn and start supporting a Socialist so fervently.
#98. To: All (#97)
#99. To: Peppa (#95)
#100. To: Peppa (#94)
Thank you OI.
Perhaps she just heard what she wanted to, but so many know her history and intellect to rise far above such platitudes, that true concern and confusion set some extreme intervention into motion. And it was NOT invited.
#101. To: Original_Intent (#100)
.... even though backed with sound reasoning.
#102. To: Original_Intent (#72)
Kind of like: "The People's Republic".
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#103. To: Peppa (#97)
#104. To: Original_Intent (#100)
For Robin her issue appears to be government run healthcare, which she tries to insist will not be government run, and that overrides all other issues or considerations.
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#105. To: Jethro Tull (#7)
Not sure who owns it. I got a PM, so I went over and saw some familiar names. Obviously all POV aren't welcome.
#106. To: farmfriend (#104)
(Edited)
She also believed in government regulation of the environment.
#107. To: Cynicom (#99)
Come tuesday, I hope my white trash small town American friends send the SOB a strong message from KY and WV.
#108. To: Peppa (#107)
That said, he can believe they voted for him though it doesn't show up in the count. ;)
#109. To: Original_Intent (#100)
I suspect so. Sometimes even intelligent people will allow one issue to override their good sense. The single issue "Abortion Voters" (on both sides) stand out as an example. I can even recall the comment made to me by one of the hard core pro-lifers (and I am pro-life myself) that "Abortion is not AN issue it is the ONLY issue". For Robin her issue appears to be government run healthcare, which she tries to insist will not be government run, and that overrides all other issues or considerations. She appears to so want to "believe in" the goodness of the "Single Payer" chimera that she will see no other consideration even though backed with sound reasoning. She has her mind made up and "does not want to be confused with the facts".
#110. To: mirage (#103)
(Edited)
Found another issue with how I react to Alinsky prodding that explains much.
#111. To: Cynicom (#108)
Pep...
#112. To: ... (#101)
.... even though backed with sound reasoning.
#113. To: Peppa (#109)
If sticking your fingers in your ears and saying la la la la la la la la, would fix things... I'd happily join in.
#114. To: Original_Intent (#112)
Have some more Sterno it helps reinforce your "world view".
#115. To: Original_Intent (#113)
Doesn't work. That's what got us to our current predicament.
#116. To: Cynicom (#108)
I suspect a lot of white guilters in public are closet racists when voting.
#117. To: Peppa (#110)
This forces people to accept the only 'solution' offered, which transforms itself into a cause.
#118. To: ... (#101)
the conspiracy theory that Obama now manipulates our minds
#119. To: mirage (#117)
...which explains the rabid nature of supporters.
#120. To: mirage (#118)
It will explain why the 'downtrodden' and the yutes are attracted -- but not many others.
#121. To: ... (#114)
(Edited)
Sorry I used the wrong childish insult in my example.
#122. To: Jethro Tull, christine (#0)
#123. To: Pinguinite, robin (#122)
It's really a sad thing.
#124. To: Pinguinite (#122)
Still it seems is was not possible to objectively discuss Obama here
#125. To: Pinguinite, Jethro Tull, christine (#122)
(Edited)
Well, JT, obviously you were banned not because of what you posted but because of what you are. Robin knows you and doesn't want you around, and that's her prerogative -- one you no doubt respect as her right in spite of your rantings.
#126. To: HOUNDDAWG (#125)
Well Neil, as my dear, sweet mother used to say, "That's your tale, I'm sittin' on mine."
Because JT was invited out before offering any comment and his contributions were valid and would likely be allowed to stay up at even the more extremely partisan forums,
I could with unproven and therefore equally valid logic say that robin chose him and this indefensibly craven means to telegraph a chilling message to all. "You either genuflect and lower your eyes before the graven images of my deity or, you're simply not welcome."
Robin knows as well as anyone that JT has a real talent for asking escape-proof questions that force hypocrites and tunnel vision sufferers to face facts that the cheerleaders and party hacks for their preferred candidates never allow in "polite conversation."
So, once again you've been caught humping JT's leg while accusing the victim of "asking for it" as mentally disordered sex offenders so often do.
#127. To: Pinguinite, Jethro Tull, christine, Peppa, Phant2000, All (#126)
You may well disagree, which is fine, but it's no secret that a number of people besides robin and me see something wrong with JT.
#128. To: Cynicom (#127)
(Edited)
Your foul mouth is a positive indication of your moral character or lack thereof .... You are a person in total lack of common civility and barren of even basic social manners.
#129. To: ... (#128)
all I see is a cogent, well expressed and well supported opinion from Neil.
#130. To: Pinguinite (#126)
JT was banned not before offering comment but very much after
#131. To: Pinguinite, HOUNDDAWG, Jethro Tull, christine, Peppa (#126)
you are ignoring the fact that he and Robin have a long history here
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#132. To: Pinguinite (#122)
But you thought it would be a great idea to get rid of the bozo feature -- to change the rules -- because you didn't like what was getting posted here.
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