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Title: OK, so a new forum opens and I posted these two articles without comment, and immediately got banned. WTF?
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Published: May 10, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-10 13:46:57 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 2459
Comments: 203
HERE Thank you christine for allowing all POV to be discussed openly and freely. The 1st amendment is alive and well on 4um.
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#83. To: Original_Intent (#78)
Put it this way, this rupture did NOT happen over nite. Such events take orchestration.
I would tend to agree. I would think that there were hints of it in advance now looking back with the clarity of 20-20 hindsight.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Oratory is the key to mesmerizing the sheep. Hitler was a master at it. Read his speech instead and it was totally flat. Sheep love to follow their idol while grazing. Give two people the same speech to use on two different audiences and you will find the key. That is a great example cyni. That may explain the inability of his flock to defend his words. If we could only hear his 'music', we'd get it. How frustrating. We scrutinized his policy positions, votes, to his words, and when it did not square, we refused to humm along.
No, it didn't, but this answer just hit me so its new to me and not something that I had considered before. What I'm mostly curious about is ... am I even on the right track here? It all seems to line up too perfectly which makes me wonder if there is a flaw in my analysis.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
G'nite all. Off to watch 15 flew over the Cuckoos Nest. ;)
Oratory is the key to mesmerizing the sheep. Hitler was a master at it. Read his speech instead and it was totally flat. Sheep love to follow their idol while grazing. Give two people the same speech to use on two different audiences and you will find the key. That is a great example cyni. That may explain the inability of his flock to defend his words. If we could only hear his 'music', we'd get it. How frustrating. We scrutinized his policy positions, votes, to his words, and when it did not square, we refused to humm along. Nicely put - the both of you. As a student of logic and rhetoric I long ago learned to automatically look at an analyze what is actually being said. When you have a speaker who relies upon demgogic speech and vague assertions they have standard schticks that they rely upon. There are goodly number of posters on this forum, present company included, who don't just swoon over a candidate mouthing the right platitudes. I don't think Robin liked that because Oh'bummer was mouthing some of her favorite platitudes - like Goobermunt Controlled Hellthcare.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
It occurs to me, upon further cogitation, that what Robin appears to want is not a forum but an echo chamber.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Pep... When we the unwashed white trash...READ... what he had to say about small town Americans, it carried the message to us he intended. He was looking down his long elite nose at us. To those in attendance listening to the ...ORATORY... it went over their heads that he was walking on we white trtash Americans.
What I'm mostly curious about is ... am I even on the right track here? It all seems to line up too perfectly which makes me wonder if there is a flaw in my analysis. I'm not familiar with Alinsky, so I couldn't say. But the tactic you describe, sounds like it lines up so far. There is definitely something at work, and it is more than coincidental that a group of people decide at the exact same moment to peel off in a completely different idealogical direction, with the exact same fervor, and essentially adopt the same debate 'style'.
I have had the opportunity to watch Hillary and Robert Kennedy "work" a crowd and it was disgraceful. Both times I asked women leaving after the speech what the two had to say and the result was the same, "I dont what they said, but they said it nice"... Sheep...
It is also very VERY strange that people who were fervent Ron Paul supporters would pull an ideological 180-degree turn and start supporting a Socialist so fervently. Something doesn't add up in that. You don't go from limited government and libertarianism to massive Government Control and Socialism overnight unless something SERIOUS got tickled. More research is needed. Tomorrow I'll get a copy of Rules for Radicals and thumb through it, comparing to some of Obama's videos and post back to you what I find.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
As a student of logic and rhetoric I long ago learned to automatically look at an analyze what is actually being said. When you have a speaker who relies upon demgogic speech and vague assertions they have standard schticks that they rely upon. There are goodly number of posters on this forum, present company included, who don't just swoon over a candidate mouthing the right platitudes. I don't think Robin liked that because Oh'bummer was mouthing some of her favorite platitudes - like Goobermunt Controlled Hellthcare. Thank you OI. Perhaps she just heard what she wanted to, but so many know her history and intellect to rise far above such platitudes, that true concern and confusion set some extreme intervention into motion. And it was NOT invited.
I see it. It was overt and will not be forgotten. He intended to send that message.
Sadly, agreed. P.T. Barnum was an optimist - although a good judge of human nature. I wish I could argue otherwise but there are just too many people who will not look and will vote for any politician who says nice things and offers to give them things bought with other people's forcibly extracted labor.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Something doesn't add up in that. You don't go from limited government and libertarianism to massive Government Control and Socialism overnight unless something SERIOUS got tickled. Well, that's the same rock I've been beating my head against as well. More research is needed. Tomorrow I'll get a copy of Rules for Radicals and thumb through it, comparing to some of Obama's videos and post back to you what I find. That would be very much appreciated! Thanks!
G'nite again.. this time for sure.. :)
Come tuesday, I hope my white trash small town American friends send the SOB a strong message from KY and WV.
You are most welcome. I suspect so. Sometimes even intelligent people will allow one issue to override their good sense. The single issue "Abortion Voters" (on both sides) stand out as an example. I can even recall the comment made to me by one of the hard core pro-lifers (and I am pro-life myself) that "Abortion is not AN issue it is the ONLY issue". For Robin her issue appears to be government run healthcare, which she tries to insist will not be government run, and that overrides all other issues or considerations. She appears to so want to "believe in" the goodness of the "Single Payer" chimera that she will see no other consideration even though backed with sound reasoning. She has her mind made up and "does not want to be confused with the facts".
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
So what was the "sound reasoning"? Did someone call her "penis breath" or did someone call her a "commie"? I haven't seen it get any deeper than that - save for the conspiracy theory that Obama now manipulates our minds.
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Yeah it amazes me how governments that don't give a shit about the people always seem to have that in the title.
Found another issue with how I react to Alinsky prodding that explains much. Alinsky-trained folks trying to convince people it is "unresponsive government" or "greedy corporations" that are the cause of their misery. The gotcha is that I view greedy corporations as investment opportunities and I think Government should just get out of my way and stop its growth as opposed to creating new programs. I am the wrong audience for that kind of "organizing".
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
She also believed in government regulation of the environment.
So, robin is the People's Place ? I'm tracking now...didn't know she'd already gotten a forum license from the central planners. ;)
You don't believe that the gov't is regulating the environment today and it's been doing so significantly for at least 3-5 decades? Think DDT, mandatory 1 gallon flushing toilets, asbestos bans, unleaded gas, winter and summer gas blends, wetlands, clean water and clean air acts, freon bans, mandatory recycling, the banning of cow farts... some of these are 40-50 years old.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
So do I. I love his promise to make people believe there is change, though they do not see it in their everyday lives. That said, he can believe they voted for him though it doesn't show up in the count. ;)
Pep... I suspect a lot of white guilters in public are closet racists when voting. Cyni...
That makes sense. Its just so odd considering her efforts to highlight the destruction of the middle class, JBT's etc.. Cockeyed. If sticking your fingers in your ears and saying la la la la la la la la, would fix things... I'd happily join in.
Alinsky-trained folks trying to convince people it is "unresponsive government" or "greedy corporations" that are the cause of their misery. The gotcha is that I view greedy corporations as investment opportunities and I think Government should just get out of my way and stop its growth as opposed to creating new programs. I am the wrong audience for that kind of "organizing". One problem is the complete sanctioned corruption of the system. To embrace more of it, is just nuts. The choices are eliminated by virtue of access. This forces people to accept the only 'solution' offered, which transforms itself into a cause.
I suspect a lot of white guilters in public are closet racists when voting. Cyni... I'd be shocked! ;)
So what was the "sound reasoning"? Did someone call her "penis breath" or did someone call her a "commie"? I haven't seen it get any deeper than that - save for the conspiracy theory that Obama now manipulates our minds. Sorry yuktard no cigar - and you are going to have to look elsewhere for your "penis fix". Have some more Sterno it helps reinforce your "world view".
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Doesn't work. That's what got us to our current predicament.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Sorry I used the wrong childish insult in my example. My point is that what you call "sound reasoning" is usually the sort of juvenile insult you just used above. What I meant is that people probably acted like you are acting now in response to Robin's arguments. I didn't mean that you flung the specific piece of feces of "penis breath". I realize you have your own silly McCainBot stuff to toss out.
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Where there goes my backup plan! ;)
Voting and in the work place when a less qualified person bumps them out of the line b/c they are "guests" from some 3rd world slum or are simply more dusky.
...which explains the rabid nature of supporters. Guess I was born a hundred years too late.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
There is no conspiracy theory about it. Its a simple analysis of tactics. The fact that the tactics are generally successful has nothing to do with a "conspiracy" - it is how and what it is. Perhaps a little reading material would help. It will explain why the 'downtrodden' and the yutes are attracted -- but not many others. Its a handbook on how to get people "on" to your "cause" - nothing more, and it doesn't work on all people. Shows you how to make an argument and how to use the mob once you get it assembled. It still requires work to get the mob assembled. There is no magic bullet. There is no mind-control ray. Its just a psychological trick that happens to be able to zero-in on weaknesses and exploit them.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Guess I was born a hundred years too late. LOL!!! I feel that way sometimes too!
My point is that what you call "sound reasoning" is usually the sort of juvenile insult you just used above. What I meant is that people probably acted like you are acting now in response to Robin's arguments. I didn't mean that you flung the specific piece of feces of "penis breath". I realize you have your own silly McCainBot stuff to toss out. There you demonstrate clearly that you are nothing other than a Troll looking to create hate and discontent. Please show any post of mine where I have ever supported McInsane. You cannot. You are simply trying to throw out childish temper tantrums and disinfo tactic lines to agitate people and distract them into your childish feces flinging.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Well, JT, obviously you were banned not because of what you posted but because of what you are. Robin knows you and doesn't want you around, and that's her prerogative -- one you no doubt respect as her right in spite of your rantings. It's really a sad thing. I'm sorry to see it come to this. But you thought it would be a great idea to get rid of the bozo feature -- to change the rules -- because you didn't like what was getting posted here. It just didn't reflect your own political views. So you wanted the rules changed, and you applied suitable pressure to change them, promising to leave 4um if they didn't. Well, they changed. I didn't think it was a good idea. Somehow Chrissy thought that 4um was being torn apart. It wasn't. But the attempt to fix it is what really tore it apart. So are you happy now, JT? Looks like there will be a lot less Obama advocacy here so I imagine you are. Still it seems is was not possible to objectively discuss Obama here, and probably many other places, so maybe this outcome was unavoidable.
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#84. To: Cynicom (#83)
Put it this way, this rupture did NOT happen over nite. Such events take orchestration.
#85. To: Cynicom (#80)
All one has to do is, "read" one of his speeches after the fact and like most politicians, it turns out to be 98 per cent BS.
#86. To: Peppa (#76)
This didn't just come on all of a sudden as it might appear IMO.
#87. To: All (#85)
#88. To: Peppa, Cynicom (#85)
(Edited)
All one has to do is, "read" one of his speeches after the fact and like most politicians, it turns out to be 98 per cent BS.
#89. To: Cynicom (#83)
Put it this way, this rupture did NOT happen over nite. Such events take orchestration.
#90. To: Peppa (#85)
#91. To: mirage (#86)
No, it didn't, but this answer just hit me so its new to me and not something that I had considered before.
#92. To: Original_Intent (#88)
There are goodly number of posters on this forum, present company included, who don't just swoon over a candidate mouthing the right platitudes. I don't think Robin liked that because Oh'bummer was mouthing some of her favorite platitudes - like Goobermunt Controlled Hellthcare.
#93. To: Peppa (#91)
There is definitely something at work, and it is more than coincidental that a group of people decide at the exact same moment to peel off in a completely different idealogical direction, with the exact same fervor, and essentially adopt the same debate 'style'.
#94. To: Original_Intent (#88)
Nicely put - the both of you.
#95. To: Cynicom (#90)
When we the unwashed white trash...READ... what he had to say about small town Americans, it carried the message to us he intended. He was looking down his long elite nose at us. To those in attendance listening to the ...ORATORY... it went over their heads that he was walking on we white trtash Americans.
#96. To: Cynicom (#92)
#97. To: mirage (#93)
It is also very VERY strange that people who were fervent Ron Paul supporters would pull an ideological 180-degree turn and start supporting a Socialist so fervently.
#98. To: All (#97)
#99. To: Peppa (#95)
#100. To: Peppa (#94)
Thank you OI.
Perhaps she just heard what she wanted to, but so many know her history and intellect to rise far above such platitudes, that true concern and confusion set some extreme intervention into motion. And it was NOT invited.
#101. To: Original_Intent (#100)
.... even though backed with sound reasoning.
#102. To: Original_Intent (#72)
Kind of like: "The People's Republic".
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#103. To: Peppa (#97)
#104. To: Original_Intent (#100)
For Robin her issue appears to be government run healthcare, which she tries to insist will not be government run, and that overrides all other issues or considerations.
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#105. To: Jethro Tull (#7)
Not sure who owns it. I got a PM, so I went over and saw some familiar names. Obviously all POV aren't welcome.
#106. To: farmfriend (#104)
(Edited)
She also believed in government regulation of the environment.
#107. To: Cynicom (#99)
Come tuesday, I hope my white trash small town American friends send the SOB a strong message from KY and WV.
#108. To: Peppa (#107)
That said, he can believe they voted for him though it doesn't show up in the count. ;)
#109. To: Original_Intent (#100)
I suspect so. Sometimes even intelligent people will allow one issue to override their good sense. The single issue "Abortion Voters" (on both sides) stand out as an example. I can even recall the comment made to me by one of the hard core pro-lifers (and I am pro-life myself) that "Abortion is not AN issue it is the ONLY issue". For Robin her issue appears to be government run healthcare, which she tries to insist will not be government run, and that overrides all other issues or considerations. She appears to so want to "believe in" the goodness of the "Single Payer" chimera that she will see no other consideration even though backed with sound reasoning. She has her mind made up and "does not want to be confused with the facts".
#110. To: mirage (#103)
(Edited)
Found another issue with how I react to Alinsky prodding that explains much.
#111. To: Cynicom (#108)
Pep...
#112. To: ... (#101)
.... even though backed with sound reasoning.
#113. To: Peppa (#109)
If sticking your fingers in your ears and saying la la la la la la la la, would fix things... I'd happily join in.
#114. To: Original_Intent (#112)
Have some more Sterno it helps reinforce your "world view".
#115. To: Original_Intent (#113)
Doesn't work. That's what got us to our current predicament.
#116. To: Cynicom (#108)
I suspect a lot of white guilters in public are closet racists when voting.
#117. To: Peppa (#110)
This forces people to accept the only 'solution' offered, which transforms itself into a cause.
#118. To: ... (#101)
the conspiracy theory that Obama now manipulates our minds
#119. To: mirage (#117)
...which explains the rabid nature of supporters.
#120. To: mirage (#118)
It will explain why the 'downtrodden' and the yutes are attracted -- but not many others.
#121. To: ... (#114)
(Edited)
Sorry I used the wrong childish insult in my example.
#122. To: Jethro Tull, christine (#0)
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