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Title: One Possible Solution to 4um's Bozo Controversy
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Published: May 10, 2008
Author: Me
Post Date: 2008-05-10 17:58:01 by Arator
Keywords: Bozos, Controversy, Solution
Views: 5402
Comments: 136
I have recently become aware of a recent 4um controversy that has apparently caused a schism in the forum and I would like to offer one possible solution to the problem for the forum to consider. On the one hand, bozoing inhibits exchanges between posters (and might be abused via registration of fake ID's just to run up the bozo count on targeted posters and make them think that they are more generally disliked than they really are). On the other hand, bozoing allow users to disassociate themselves from posters who they would rather not be associated with (for whatever reason). Christine recently opted to balance these two goods by lowering the per-poster bozo count to 10 (believing that this would encourage more interaction and discourage bozo abuses via fake IDs, while still allowing a reasonable freedom to disassociate). Unfortunately, posters who had had more than 10 posters bozo'ed could no long disassociate with the number of posters that they wished to as a result and opted instead to disassociate themselves from the forum entirely. So, the basic problem is this: can the forum allow users to disassociate themselves from other posters as they like while, at the same time, serve its purpose, which is to foster free and open exchanges between posters who do not necessarily agree politically? I think the answer might be yes, if, that is, the forum's poster-to-poster interactions were more like real life. As it stands now, the forums' interactions are not like real life because bozoing is cheap for the bozoer and of weak effect on the bozoed. This is so because, unlike real life, the persons being bozoed do not know who is bozoing them. This fact greatly diminishes the social repercussions of bozoing and being bozoed. In real life, on the other hand, if someone choose to not speak to (or associate with) someone else, both parties know it. Hence, for the bozoer, there are social consequences (or costs) to disassociating that must be considered (as well as the benefits). And for the bozoed, the costs of being disassociated from are fully known and weighed against the benefits of continuing their present mode of social interaction, allowing them to adjust their behavior accordingly (or not). If 4um operated more like a real life, posters would know exactly who was bozoing them. This would eliminate the incentive for some to inflate bozo-counts via the registration of fake IDs, since the bozoed would then know that they were being falsely bozoed. This would also result in an optimal level of disassociation (and forum interaction) because: 1) the bozoers would bear the full social costs (as well as receive the benefits) of disassociation, and 2) the bozoed would know the full social costs (as well as the benefits) of their own posting behavior, and could moderate their behavior accordingly. In sum, I suggest that the number of bozos be unlimited but that the bozo'd know not just the bozo count but also exactly who has bozoed them. I would also keep PM communications open between the bozoer and the bozoed, because, in real life, even those who have disassociated have the possibility of changing their mode of relating and reassociating later on a better basis. These changes I believe would lead to an optimal level of forum interaction (and disassociation).
Poster Comment: What do ya think?
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#1. To: christine, Jethro Tull, aristeides, Robin, Red Jones (#0)
For your consideration.
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
Do away with the bozo nonsense. I Bozo no one, never have and have no interest in such. Most people here claim to be adults, if they cannot manage the the flow on forum, "ignore" is always available, barring that, just perhaps they need to look elsewhere.
Actually the problem that 4um has is called O'marxist mole-itis and before long it will swell to the point that 4um as has been known will cease to exist. Good work to all you Establishment Marxist huggers, if that was/is your intent...
It would probably work. But the way I understand the problem, a very select few individuals went nuts because they were racking up big bozo counts. Rather than moderate their behavior and decrease their counts that way, they petitioned to have the number of bozo slots cut down to ten. (And I seriously doubt if this did anything to improve their bozo count. Most people don't have ten people on bozo to begin with.) I've always thought a simpler solution was to simply not publish the bozo count. You wouldn't know how many people had you on bozo. This would both prevent the bozo being used as a weapon and it would keep the cry babies happy. They wouldn't know people had them on bozo. It wouldn't affect the majority of people at all. Most people couldn't give a rats ass if someone has them on bozo.
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Agree 100% - great idea. Thanks.
4um existed for years before you began to distrupt here. And it existed with exactly the same people you now try to silence with your yukon style insults and harassment tacitics. They are, in fact, the founders of this site. You on the other hand, are a rude shallow, idiot, who wandered in years later and began an effort to silence people with your yukon/ALS LP stuff. So please don't talk to us about what is good for the site, Mr. Newcomer with the site record bozo count. (And the childish and moronic behavior you show above is the reason you had to run sobbing to the mods about your bozo count.)
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Great to see you back here, Cyni. Cheers.
i think it could make things interesting. i have no idea what it would require as far as coding the software.
Yes, that's a solid answer, as was Vast's (rolling them off after time). The problem was that some here used the bozo as a rating system, similar to LFs dopey rating system. Let the cowards and sock puppets ID themselves if they choose to avoid conflict. Of course, I still choose to toss the bloody thing in the can all together, but god forbid some here don't get the "pleasant experience" they pay for :)
Curiously, I went to my Setup page, and we can't post (copy/paste) who we've BZ'ed. I used to have one BZ on me, but now it's down to zero...I don't know if the member went to poster-heaven, or what? What about if someone doesn't post or reply in a certain period of time, you guys discuss this, they then have to re-register with 4? Does that make any sense?
Social behavior becomes null and void once a person can hide. Do away with the bozo, learn to ignore or look for a forum that meets ones taste.. The "NEW" forum is already throwing people out, thrown by the worst bozoers of all. Hypocrites.
I bozoed the U.S. Government ... and they're not missed.
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
the expiring of bozos as vast suggested would take care of that.
I can't see much value in 'knowing' who has bozoed whom. It does not matter. If you are a 'bozoed' person you probably earned it. If you wanted real life similar situations... I haven't watched 'network news' in more than 15 years. I effectively bozoed them and, I am sure, they don't care to know that it was me not watching their evening news. Some people never watch Hannity or O'Reilley or Rush. I am one of those who don't. Does Rush deserve to know that I'm not listening to his crap? I don't think so. I bozoed him maybe 10 years ago and we are both happier for it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I worked for them 23 years, fought all the way, and I LOST. It was like fighting a fire eating dragon with chopsticks. Money going down rat holes, no one cared. Good work does get done by the slugs and drones like myself that care to stick it out. However, for every drone there is a "management" person hiding behind a desk somewhere with his "private" secretary in tow.
How does it rate people if you don't spill the beans? Why tell others what your count is? If your count is confidential, it just provides some nice feed back as to what people really think of you. And the people who have you on bozo won't listen to you even if you take their bozo abilities away. They will just find another way to ignore you. To get them to listen, you've got to talk to them in a way they want to be talked to.
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This 4UM is just right the way it is ... I don't care who bozoes me ...
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Let's call it "ignore" instead of "bozo." That way there will no hurt feelings. :) About 50 or so should be enough for anyone. Anyone that ignores more than 20 should be publicly listed as doing so, maybe an asterisk by their name or something.
God is always good!
LOL. A forum without posters is like a garden without flowers (or, in the case of FOH, weeds).
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
IGNORE-ant !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I agree. My count has always hovered around two and I couldn't care less. At least in the sense that it makes me mad. A hight count would indicate that I'm doing something wrong. I think one guy who has me is a dead guy who has been there years. Not sure who the other is and I don't care.
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This is the first forum I have not been thrown out of, a record. I have bruises to prove it.
(or, in the case of FOH, STINK weeds).
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Same thing. Last time I checked, I had 3 who didn't want to hear from me. It does not anger me and I don't feel like I should know who they are. If I saw that 15 or 20 or 10 found me unworthy, I would give it some thought and begin thinking that maybe there is something uncool about my online presence.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Yeah, it's unfortunate that you Marxist Establishment propagandists are found to be offensive and lacking...on your face. You bet I'm a weed in your World Marxist Revolutionary garden...big, bad, noxious, deadly weed.
Chrissy has huge ... hahahahaha .... quevos !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Bitter clinger...
glad to see you posting again Cynicom.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
The most successful forums I've posted on had NO BOZO. Prodigy ('92-'96) and tFR ('96-'00) There was mild moderation, but oh my, the fun, fights, conflict and political exchanges we had. This selective BS today, where everyone has to agree or they get all huffy, is for amateurs. Lets use our 1st before it's curtailed.
Thank you for boiling it down for us. Well said.
it's not as simple as that...you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure. it's not just about civility. people are offended by different opinions or expression of preferences or dislikes too.
DDT (Drop Dead Twice)/> ------------ FOH "The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
The problem was with the intellectual honesty of the debate. Without that, a zillion bozo's or none won't and can't 'fix' anything. For those that left, due to their objection to others points of view, their ideology and behaviour matches that of the media, which is to ignore that which they do not think is relevant, important, destructive, instructive, and to silence through intimidation via political correctness.
Interesting suggestion. Perhaps, poster names should be color-coded: Pink - sensitive/effete/snob, has put more than 20 posters on ignore Black - normal Grey - maladjusted/buzzkill/pariah, has been put on ignore by more than 20 posters
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
That's why I like the function. I pay attention to it. If you are here to reach people then it is the best feedback you have. If your count shoots up, then you should take a long, hard look at what you're doing here. A high count indicates: (1) You piss people off, (2) You're probably hurting your cause, and (3) You're wasting your time. People like FOH consider a record high bozo count to be a badge of honor. He actually posted this today. But that is simply stupid beyond belief. He's got an objective record that says he's failing and he crows about it on the board. And recall that until a couple of weeks ago, the 4um view mirrored the larger national view very closely. This has changed with some of the LP newcomers such as FOH and Mud, but it is still close enough to say that if it doesn't work here, it doesn't work in real life.
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Cheers. Ditto that!
Doug, are you suggesting I should drop dead ? That's not very Jesus of you...4um preacher.
You might be telling the very painful truth .... maybe !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
In theory, I agree: but when obvious trolls, shills, and shitheads begin posting, I like the ability to whack them from what I see. I don't have the time, energy, or the desire to engage them, or see them, on any level.
I think people are offended by FOH calling them "commies" and "shit for brains". Or Mud calling them "penis breath". They're not offended by opinions. And they're not even offended by the garbage spewed by the LP newcomers, just annoyed. They have to wade through that garbage to get to what was the old 4um. People have been here for years and exposed to a great variety of opinions. I've seen very few problems with a respectfully presented opinion no matter what it is. Most of the people who made this place what it is are old timers who can handle that.
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#2. To: Arator (#0)
#3. To: Arator, *Obama Reality Check* (#0)
I have recently become aware of a recent 4um controversy that has apparently caused a schism in the forum
#4. To: Arator (#0)
#5. To: Arator (#0)
I suggest that the number of bozos be unlimited but that the bozo'd know not just the bozo count but also exactly who has bozoed them.
#6. To: FOH (#3)
(Edited)
Actually the problem that 4um has is called O'marxist mole-itis and before long it will swell to the point that 4um as has been known will cease to exist.
#7. To: Cynicom (#2)
#8. To: Arator, Pinguinite (#0)
#9. To: Arator (#1)
#10. To: christine. those who love 4 (#8)
#11. To: Jethro Tull (#9)
#12. To: Cynicom (#2)
Bozo no one, never have and have no interest in such.
#13. To: lodwick, a vast rightwing conspirator (#10)
#14. To: Arator (#0)
(Edited)
#15. To: noone222 (#12)
#16. To: Jethro Tull (#9)
(Edited)
The problem was that some here used the bozo as a rating system,
#17. To: Cynicom (#11)
The "NEW" forum is already throwing people out, thrown by the worst bozoers of all. Hypocrites.
#18. To: Arator (#0)
#19. To: Jethro Tull, FOH (#9)
Of course, I still choose to toss the bloody thing in the can all together, but god forbid some here don't get the "pleasant experience" they pay for :)
#20. To: RickyJ (#18)
Anyone that ignores more than 20 should be publicly listed as
#21. To: noone222 (#17)
(Edited)
This 4UM is just right the way it is ... I don't care who bozoes me ...
#22. To: noone222 (#17)
This 4UM is just right the way it is ... I don't care who bozoes me ...
#23. To: Arator (#19)
(or, in the case of FOH, weeds).
#24. To: ... (#21)
#25. To: Arator (#19)
A forum without posters is like a garden without flowers (or, in the case of FOH, weeds).
#26. To: Cynicom (#22)
This is the first forum I have not been thrown out of, a record.
#27. To: noone222 (#23)
(or, in the case of FOH, STINK weeds).
#28. To: Cynicom (#2)
#29. To: Cynicom (#11)
The "NEW" forum is already throwing people out, thrown by the worst bozoers of all.
#30. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#24)
If I saw that 15 or 20 or 10 found me unworthy, I would give it some thought and begin thinking that maybe there is something uncool about my online presence.
#31. To: ... (#16)
To get them to listen, you've got to talk to them in a way they want to be talked to.
#32. To: FOH (#25)
You bet I'm a weed
#33. To: christine (#13)
#34. To: RickyJ (#18)
About 50 or so should be enough for anyone. Anyone that ignores more than 20 should be publicly listed as doing so, maybe an asterisk by their name or something.
#35. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#24)
If I saw that 15 or 20 or 10 found me unworthy, I would give it some thought and begin thinking that maybe there is something uncool about my online presence.
#36. To: lodwick, cyni (#7)
Great to see you back here, Cyni.
#37. To: noone222 (#32)
(Drop Dead Twice)/> ------------ FOH
#38. To: ... (#35)
If your count shoots up, then you should take a long, hard look at what you're doing here. A high count indicates: (1) You piss people off, (2) You're probably hurting your cause, and (3) You're wasting your time.
#39. To: Jethro Tull (#29)
#40. To: christine (#31)
(Edited)
t's not as simple as that...you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure. it's not just about civility. people are offended by different opinions or expression of preferences or dislikes too.
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