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Title: One Possible Solution to 4um's Bozo Controversy
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Published: May 10, 2008
Author: Me
Post Date: 2008-05-10 17:58:01 by Arator
Keywords: Bozos, Controversy, Solution
Views: 5592
Comments: 136
I have recently become aware of a recent 4um controversy that has apparently caused a schism in the forum and I would like to offer one possible solution to the problem for the forum to consider. On the one hand, bozoing inhibits exchanges between posters (and might be abused via registration of fake ID's just to run up the bozo count on targeted posters and make them think that they are more generally disliked than they really are). On the other hand, bozoing allow users to disassociate themselves from posters who they would rather not be associated with (for whatever reason). Christine recently opted to balance these two goods by lowering the per-poster bozo count to 10 (believing that this would encourage more interaction and discourage bozo abuses via fake IDs, while still allowing a reasonable freedom to disassociate). Unfortunately, posters who had had more than 10 posters bozo'ed could no long disassociate with the number of posters that they wished to as a result and opted instead to disassociate themselves from the forum entirely. So, the basic problem is this: can the forum allow users to disassociate themselves from other posters as they like while, at the same time, serve its purpose, which is to foster free and open exchanges between posters who do not necessarily agree politically? I think the answer might be yes, if, that is, the forum's poster-to-poster interactions were more like real life. As it stands now, the forums' interactions are not like real life because bozoing is cheap for the bozoer and of weak effect on the bozoed. This is so because, unlike real life, the persons being bozoed do not know who is bozoing them. This fact greatly diminishes the social repercussions of bozoing and being bozoed. In real life, on the other hand, if someone choose to not speak to (or associate with) someone else, both parties know it. Hence, for the bozoer, there are social consequences (or costs) to disassociating that must be considered (as well as the benefits). And for the bozoed, the costs of being disassociated from are fully known and weighed against the benefits of continuing their present mode of social interaction, allowing them to adjust their behavior accordingly (or not). If 4um operated more like a real life, posters would know exactly who was bozoing them. This would eliminate the incentive for some to inflate bozo-counts via the registration of fake IDs, since the bozoed would then know that they were being falsely bozoed. This would also result in an optimal level of disassociation (and forum interaction) because: 1) the bozoers would bear the full social costs (as well as receive the benefits) of disassociation, and 2) the bozoed would know the full social costs (as well as the benefits) of their own posting behavior, and could moderate their behavior accordingly. In sum, I suggest that the number of bozos be unlimited but that the bozo'd know not just the bozo count but also exactly who has bozoed them. I would also keep PM communications open between the bozoer and the bozoed, because, in real life, even those who have disassociated have the possibility of changing their mode of relating and reassociating later on a better basis. These changes I believe would lead to an optimal level of forum interaction (and disassociation).
Poster Comment: What do ya think?
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#96. To: Peppa (#92)
Thank you and Buckeye for being so appreciative ... I get so tired of fighting all of the time ... especially when we all know something is soooo wrong but can't seem to get along long enough to resolve it. So once in awhile ... a few beers and www.live365.com gets me thru it !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
You're a winner ! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise !! ;)
It's time we all pointed out that your Lenin tagline is awesome.
I'll bump to that
"Purrrrrrr Energy"
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I was catchin hell over Thomas Jefferson ... so I retreated to Lenin ... Just for FOH !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
So once in awhile ... a few beers and www.live365.com gets me thru it !!! YMW 222! we all know something is soooo wrong but can't seem to get along long enough to resolve it. It's not can't, it's won't. There is no 'try', only 'do'. There's little will for either.. I guess. Thanks for the link, I will check it out!
Sorry for the poor communication. Lets say you have 15 on bozo, you'd pay the forum $15 per month. christine deserves a buck or three.
They have all kinds of stations playing a vast array of music !!! It's a good find ! What is YMW 222 ????
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
You are Most Welcome! 222=noone222 :)
While I'm very certain Christine does deserve a buck or three, doubt she wants to install Pay-pal.
Thanks ... I really liked Robert Palmer .... addicted to love !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Me too. Gone too soon.... Another fave.
So nice ... real raw talent !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
He was awesome. Okay, one more.... Jon Bon Jovi, Seal, Robert Palmer - Like A Rolling Stone
Or at least make their bozo list expire after a month. As for the very idea of a bozo list? It's a tool, and like every other tool can be misused. I felt the decision to reduce the number of slots was arbitrary and seemingly done under duress, but hindsight being what it is and all.. I don't see a problem with an unlimited number of bozo slots, from a philosophical standpoint, participating in a forum no more demands interacting with every poster any more than visiting a mall demands purchasing from each merchant, or telling me if I want to use US Postal Service I must read every piece of junk mail they deliver. Sounds a bit labor intensive, not to mention intrusive.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
That is exactly how I see it, Dakmar. I recognize that it is Christine's forum and she can do what she wants as far as the bozo filter--either have it or not, or one with unlimited number of bozos or a very limited number--but in theory I don't see anything wrong with having a large number if you are going to have the filter. What is the magic number and why limit it to ten? It is not that important to me since I only have one poster on mine (and one poster has me bozoed--I hope it is the same one who I have bozoed but I don't know).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I didn't hear the quote.........
Can I change my screen name to Ned Ryerson? Needlenose Ned? Ned the Head? BING!
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Few nites ago I signed in to a Bush chat room and got booted afore I could make a post. I used the name Obama. No sense of humor.
Check again.
I was there ... and the song is awesome !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I used the name Obama. Try using JudyGarlandFan next time you get a wild hair, they'll make you their new queen.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Ok will do. I will adjust the horizontal hold and see what happens ;)
Awesome !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Got it this time... he is sharp. I watched his bio recently, and he's so much different than I had imagined. Good interviews! TY!
No kidding? How fun. I really like Seals music too...
Possibly another solution would be for a "part-time bozo" where you put someone on bozo for a week or two and then they automatically come off of bozo. There is no "one size fits all" solution, but this is another incremental idea. Throwing this out as an additional suggestion and for comment.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Back in the 90s, there was no bozo, no banning, you took your shots or ignored them. Anyone that recalls A+Bert, recalls an expert jouster.
Robert's vids got it done for me.
Gads! LOL! :)
Back in the 90s, flame wars were legion as well. Those of us who learned from that experience are better for it. Those who are new....the lesson is still learned the hard way.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
James. At least one person here was using the bozo to demoralize a poster(s). H/she would run the bozo's up usually as a contentious thread was in progress. Take it on my word. That said, it's Christine's house and she can alter, change, remove or add slots as she pleases. I'll stay regardless of the decision. But that is what caused this event.
You might get more talking, but it would probably be less honest. On the one hand, bozoing inhibits exchanges between posters (and might be abused via registration of fake ID's just to run up the bozo count on targeted posters and make them think that they are more generally disliked than they really are). Or maybe those folks could grow a pair.
Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”
See you guys tomorrow morning. I think everything is fine as is.
God is always good!
I don't think one person can do that. That used to be possible when you could bozo someone more than once, but Neil fixed that back when Op was posting here. That trick no longer exists. I think if you get multiple bozos today, multiple people are putting you on bozo.
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For the record, I have never had you on bozo. In fact, I didn't even know there was a problem until after it became full blown. I don't know what was incrementing your bozo count. But I had absolutely nothing to do with it. If you have a shred of doubt about this, Neil should be able to confirm it from the system logs. A bozo involves an entry in a db table and given the MySql database you can get a dump and see it. It doesn't go away. I think the simplest explanation is that there was one person on this forum behind each of the bozos showing on your stat page.
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I'm not talking about me. I'm not talking about you. The system was abused by persons unknown to person(s) I know. The intention was clear.
I wasn't at the concert ... I was in Nam (sorry, got side-tracked). I like Seals music too ... Kissed by a Rose is just one that I like.
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
#97. To: noone222 (#90)
I even talk to scum like you if I get shit-faced enough !
#98. To: noone222 (#96)
#99. To: buckeye (#98)
#100. To: All (#99)
hunnerd
#101. To: FOH, Pure energy .... ZAPPPPPPP (#97)
#102. To: buckeye (#98)
It's time we all pointed out that your Lenin tagline is awesome.
#103. To: noone222 (#96)
(Edited)
Thank you and Buckeye for being so appreciative ... I get so tired of fighting all of the time ... especially when we all know something is soooo wrong but can't seem to get along long enough to resolve it.
#104. To: ... (#85)
Why would you not want to know if a big part of the site wasn't buying your message?
#105. To: Peppa (#103)
Thanks for the link, I will check it out!
#106. To: noone222 (#105)
What is YMW 222 ????
#107. To: Jethro Tull (#104)
you'd pay the forum $15 per month.
#108. To: Peppa (#106)
#109. To: noone222 (#108)
Thanks ... I really liked Robert Palmer .... addicted to love !
#110. To: Peppa (#109)
#111. To: noone222 (#110)
So nice ... real raw talent !!!
#112. To: lodwick, christine, pinguinite, Arator (#10)
What about if someone doesn't post or reply in a certain period of time, you guys discuss this, they then have to re-register with 4?
#113. To: Peppa (#111)
(Edited)
#114. To: Dakmar, christine (#112)
I don't see a problem with an unlimited number of bozo slots, from a philosophical standpoint, participating in a forum no more demands interacting with every poster any more than visiting a mall demands purchasing from each merchant, or telling me if I want to use US Postal Service I must read every piece of junk mail they deliver. Sounds a bit labor intensive, not to mention intrusive.
Lord Acton
#115. To: buckeye (#113)
#116. To: Cynicom, Christine (#11)
Social behavior becomes null and void once a person can hide.
#117. To: Dakmar (#116)
#118. To: Peppa (#115)
#119. To: Peppa (#111)
#120. To: Cynicom (#117)
Few nites ago I signed in to a Bush chat room and got booted afore I could make a post.
#121. To: buckeye (#118)
Check again.
#122. To: Peppa (#111)
#123. To: buckeye (#118)
Check again.
#124. To: noone222 (#119)
I was there ... and the song is awesome !
#125. To: Arator (#0)
#126. To: mirage (#125)
#127. To: Peppa, noone222, TA lovers here (#109)
#128. To: lodwick (#127)
Robert's vids got it done for me.
#129. To: Cynicom (#126)
Back in the 90s, there was no bozo, no banning, you took your shots or ignored them. Anyone that recalls A+Bert, recalls an expert jouster.
#130. To: James Deffenbach, Dakmar, all (#114)
What is the magic number and why limit it to ten?
#131. To: Arator (#0)
What do ya think?
#132. To: ALL (#131)
#133. To: Jethro Tull (#130)
At least one person here was using the bozo to demoralize a poster(s). H/she would run the bozo's up usually as a contentious thread was in progress.
#134. To: Jethro Tull (#130)
(Edited)
#135. To: ... (#133)
(Edited)
#136. To: Peppa (#124)
No kidding? How fun.
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