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All is Vanity
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Title: One Possible Solution to 4um's Bozo Controversy
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 10, 2008
Author: Me
Post Date: 2008-05-10 17:58:01 by Arator
Keywords: Bozos, Controversy, Solution
Views: 5931
Comments: 136

I have recently become aware of a recent 4um controversy that has apparently caused a schism in the forum and I would like to offer one possible solution to the problem for the forum to consider.

On the one hand, bozoing inhibits exchanges between posters (and might be abused via registration of fake ID's just to run up the bozo count on targeted posters and make them think that they are more generally disliked than they really are).

On the other hand, bozoing allow users to disassociate themselves from posters who they would rather not be associated with (for whatever reason).

Christine recently opted to balance these two goods by lowering the per-poster bozo count to 10 (believing that this would encourage more interaction and discourage bozo abuses via fake IDs, while still allowing a reasonable freedom to disassociate). Unfortunately, posters who had had more than 10 posters bozo'ed could no long disassociate with the number of posters that they wished to as a result and opted instead to disassociate themselves from the forum entirely.

So, the basic problem is this: can the forum allow users to disassociate themselves from other posters as they like while, at the same time, serve its purpose, which is to foster free and open exchanges between posters who do not necessarily agree politically?

I think the answer might be yes, if, that is, the forum's poster-to-poster interactions were more like real life.

As it stands now, the forums' interactions are not like real life because bozoing is cheap for the bozoer and of weak effect on the bozoed. This is so because, unlike real life, the persons being bozoed do not know who is bozoing them. This fact greatly diminishes the social repercussions of bozoing and being bozoed.

In real life, on the other hand, if someone choose to not speak to (or associate with) someone else, both parties know it. Hence, for the bozoer, there are social consequences (or costs) to disassociating that must be considered (as well as the benefits). And for the bozoed, the costs of being disassociated from are fully known and weighed against the benefits of continuing their present mode of social interaction, allowing them to adjust their behavior accordingly (or not).

If 4um operated more like a real life, posters would know exactly who was bozoing them. This would eliminate the incentive for some to inflate bozo-counts via the registration of fake IDs, since the bozoed would then know that they were being falsely bozoed. This would also result in an optimal level of disassociation (and forum interaction) because:

1) the bozoers would bear the full social costs (as well as receive the benefits) of disassociation, and

2) the bozoed would know the full social costs (as well as the benefits) of their own posting behavior, and could moderate their behavior accordingly.

In sum, I suggest that the number of bozos be unlimited but that the bozo'd know not just the bozo count but also exactly who has bozoed them. I would also keep PM communications open between the bozoer and the bozoed, because, in real life, even those who have disassociated have the possibility of changing their mode of relating and reassociating later on a better basis. These changes I believe would lead to an optimal level of forum interaction (and disassociation).


Poster Comment:

What do ya think?

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 134.

#8. To: Arator, Pinguinite (#0)

i think it could make things interesting. i have no idea what it would require as far as coding the software.

christine  posted on  2008-05-10   18:11:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: christine. those who love 4 (#8)

Curiously, I went to my Setup page, and we can't post (copy/paste) who we've BZ'ed.

I used to have one BZ on me, but now it's down to zero...I don't know if the member went to poster-heaven, or what?

What about if someone doesn't post or reply in a certain period of time, you guys discuss this, they then have to re-register with 4?

Does that make any sense?

Lod  posted on  2008-05-10   18:18:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: lodwick, christine, pinguinite, Arator (#10)

What about if someone doesn't post or reply in a certain period of time, you guys discuss this, they then have to re-register with 4?

Or at least make their bozo list expire after a month.

As for the very idea of a bozo list? It's a tool, and like every other tool can be misused. I felt the decision to reduce the number of slots was arbitrary and seemingly done under duress, but hindsight being what it is and all..

I don't see a problem with an unlimited number of bozo slots, from a philosophical standpoint, participating in a forum no more demands interacting with every poster any more than visiting a mall demands purchasing from each merchant, or telling me if I want to use US Postal Service I must read every piece of junk mail they deliver. Sounds a bit labor intensive, not to mention intrusive.

Dakmar  posted on  2008-05-10   20:45:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Dakmar, christine (#112)

I don't see a problem with an unlimited number of bozo slots, from a philosophical standpoint, participating in a forum no more demands interacting with every poster any more than visiting a mall demands purchasing from each merchant, or telling me if I want to use US Postal Service I must read every piece of junk mail they deliver. Sounds a bit labor intensive, not to mention intrusive.

That is exactly how I see it, Dakmar. I recognize that it is Christine's forum and she can do what she wants as far as the bozo filter--either have it or not, or one with unlimited number of bozos or a very limited number--but in theory I don't see anything wrong with having a large number if you are going to have the filter. What is the magic number and why limit it to ten? It is not that important to me since I only have one poster on mine (and one poster has me bozoed--I hope it is the same one who I have bozoed but I don't know).

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-10   20:56:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: James Deffenbach, Dakmar, all (#114)

What is the magic number and why limit it to ten?

James. At least one person here was using the bozo to demoralize a poster(s). H/she would run the bozo's up usually as a contentious thread was in progress. Take it on my word. That said, it's Christine's house and she can alter, change, remove or add slots as she pleases. I'll stay regardless of the decision. But that is what caused this event.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-10   21:58:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: Jethro Tull (#130) (Edited)

For the record, I have never had you on bozo. In fact, I didn't even know there was a problem until after it became full blown. I don't know what was incrementing your bozo count. But I had absolutely nothing to do with it. If you have a shred of doubt about this, Neil should be able to confirm it from the system logs. A bozo involves an entry in a db table and given the MySql database you can get a dump and see it. It doesn't go away.

I think the simplest explanation is that there was one person on this forum behind each of the bozos showing on your stat page.

...  posted on  2008-05-10   22:19:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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