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Title: One Possible Solution to 4um's Bozo Controversy
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Published: May 10, 2008
Author: Me
Post Date: 2008-05-10 17:58:01 by Arator
Keywords: Bozos, Controversy, Solution
Views: 5577
Comments: 136
I have recently become aware of a recent 4um controversy that has apparently caused a schism in the forum and I would like to offer one possible solution to the problem for the forum to consider. On the one hand, bozoing inhibits exchanges between posters (and might be abused via registration of fake ID's just to run up the bozo count on targeted posters and make them think that they are more generally disliked than they really are). On the other hand, bozoing allow users to disassociate themselves from posters who they would rather not be associated with (for whatever reason). Christine recently opted to balance these two goods by lowering the per-poster bozo count to 10 (believing that this would encourage more interaction and discourage bozo abuses via fake IDs, while still allowing a reasonable freedom to disassociate). Unfortunately, posters who had had more than 10 posters bozo'ed could no long disassociate with the number of posters that they wished to as a result and opted instead to disassociate themselves from the forum entirely. So, the basic problem is this: can the forum allow users to disassociate themselves from other posters as they like while, at the same time, serve its purpose, which is to foster free and open exchanges between posters who do not necessarily agree politically? I think the answer might be yes, if, that is, the forum's poster-to-poster interactions were more like real life. As it stands now, the forums' interactions are not like real life because bozoing is cheap for the bozoer and of weak effect on the bozoed. This is so because, unlike real life, the persons being bozoed do not know who is bozoing them. This fact greatly diminishes the social repercussions of bozoing and being bozoed. In real life, on the other hand, if someone choose to not speak to (or associate with) someone else, both parties know it. Hence, for the bozoer, there are social consequences (or costs) to disassociating that must be considered (as well as the benefits). And for the bozoed, the costs of being disassociated from are fully known and weighed against the benefits of continuing their present mode of social interaction, allowing them to adjust their behavior accordingly (or not). If 4um operated more like a real life, posters would know exactly who was bozoing them. This would eliminate the incentive for some to inflate bozo-counts via the registration of fake IDs, since the bozoed would then know that they were being falsely bozoed. This would also result in an optimal level of disassociation (and forum interaction) because: 1) the bozoers would bear the full social costs (as well as receive the benefits) of disassociation, and 2) the bozoed would know the full social costs (as well as the benefits) of their own posting behavior, and could moderate their behavior accordingly. In sum, I suggest that the number of bozos be unlimited but that the bozo'd know not just the bozo count but also exactly who has bozoed them. I would also keep PM communications open between the bozoer and the bozoed, because, in real life, even those who have disassociated have the possibility of changing their mode of relating and reassociating later on a better basis. These changes I believe would lead to an optimal level of forum interaction (and disassociation).
Poster Comment: What do ya think?
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#36. To: lodwick, cyni (#7)
Cheers. Ditto that!
Doug, are you suggesting I should drop dead ? That's not very Jesus of you...4um preacher.
You might be telling the very painful truth .... maybe !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
In theory, I agree: but when obvious trolls, shills, and shitheads begin posting, I like the ability to whack them from what I see. I don't have the time, energy, or the desire to engage them, or see them, on any level.
I think people are offended by FOH calling them "commies" and "shit for brains". Or Mud calling them "penis breath". They're not offended by opinions. And they're not even offended by the garbage spewed by the LP newcomers, just annoyed. They have to wade through that garbage to get to what was the old 4um. People have been here for years and exposed to a great variety of opinions. I've seen very few problems with a respectfully presented opinion no matter what it is. Most of the people who made this place what it is are old timers who can handle that.
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No, no, no...that's obviously the color that should be given to every single last one of you ObamaCONs...
Kardovite ... try it ... if that don't work get some meth and a shotgun !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
That's not very Jesus of you...4um preacher. Demo your nasty, counter productive crap for us. It would be good to have it right here on the thread.
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Pink - sensitive/effete/snob, has put more than 20 posters on ignore Black - normal Grey - maladjusted/buzzkill/pariah, has been put on ignore by more than 20 posters lol - I'm not sure that we could pay Neil enough for that coding...cool idea, but Dear God.
You might be telling the very painful truth .... maybe ! Actually, it works equally well in reverse.
I'm right this moment on 15 filters and I'm LOVIN it...;)
And the ignore has the advantage of being a very private matter while, indeed, giving the target something to think about when a significantly large numbers of individuals don't want to hear from him/her no more. It's a much better system than LibertyForum with it's collective ratings system that could lift someone or make someone invisible based on ratings on their posts. It was an interesting experiment but I saw people forced into practical invisibility because their adversaries would gang up on them, downrating their posts and preventing everybody from 'seeing' their views. It was also causing endless 'appeals' to the admins for unfair downrates so it was a waste of time and a distraction. If I decide to ignore someone... it's my business and my right entirely and there's nowhere to appeal it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Yes, but the 15 who filtered you out don't know it and, possibly, couldn't care less.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Some had and have the rallying cry of overt "racism". Using their accepted definition, I am admitted racist. With that in mind, I have never met a man that was NOT racist. Racism knows no bounds of color, ethnicity, religion. Obama said we small town backwater Americans did not like others that were "different". He is correct. What he forgot to add was the the reverse is only too true. After having a knife pulled on me in the inner city of Baltimore and the man going to slit my throat simply because I was "white", one comes to the realization that minorities hate me because I am "white".
Gulping Kardovite by the fistful here - good stuff, I guess, I'm still posting.
If you aren't concerned about people knowing you've bozo'd them, who cares?
And...so ?
That means: (1) You piss people off. (2) You're hurting your cause. (2) You're wasting your time. And after spending many years in a large corporate environment as person who hears these sorts of complaints, I can tell you one thing for certain: For every person who bothers to complain by taking the effort to bozo you, there are two more who feel the same way but are too lazy to act. Take your count and triple it, and then subtract it from 50. That's how many people you reach. Maybe 3 to 5. And half of these probably pay attention because they don't like you. So all in all, you are a complete and utter fool.
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True. And, if Christine could implement the auto-expiration for filters, then the LP or FR or, God forbid, DU or Kos newcomers could quickly notice that no one is listening to them while they act as a-holes and they may decide to re-adjust so when the filters reset they are not as offensive or useless and get accepted or at least tolerated.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Auto expiration would be good. It might also be a good idea to just have the bozo count appear with the poster's name. That would certainly encourage civility. It would instantly tell you what sort of person you were dealing with.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing racism, Nazism, zionism or anti-Semitism, even terrorism. We are just talking here and something good or at least interesting may come out of it. If someone would try to recruit at this site for political assassinations then, maybe that person should be bozoed. But, simply declaring your racism and, hopefully, discussing it in an intelligent way is acceptable to me even though I understand why some people may want to filter you out.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I disagree with that. That would have 'the black sheep' identified and it would encourage targeting certain individuals by certain groups. I believe that the filtering should be private. I did announce the identities of the 3 I filtered out myself but now I believe that it was wrong to do it. At the most, I should have sent a private email to the target but not publicly announce it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I know too little about the Weathermen to express any views on their activities. But, as a general rule, I tend to respect those who back their views with action while risking their own life or freedom in the process. I tend to have more respect for those who act as individuals than for those who do it as part of an organized group. Note that 'respect' does not equal agreement or approval or admiration.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
With that in mind, I have never met a man that was NOT racist. Racism knows no bounds of color, ethnicity, religion. Obama said we small town backwater Americans did not like others that were "different". He is correct. What he forgot to add was the the reverse is only too true. After having a knife pulled on me in the inner city of Baltimore and the man going to slit my throat simply because I was "white", one comes to the realization that minorities hate me because I am "white". You are absolutely correct. Obama himself wanted to open the 'convesation' on race, as it was past due. When we decided to take him up on his offer, we learned it was so that we could listen to more one way clanking and whacking. That you have a such a story... no amount of browbeating can convince you that you had it coming. Illegal aliens roam and kill throughout the country, yet we are crucified for objecting... There has been a conversation going for a long long time. Obama, plucked the door open, at a time specified long ago. We are being manipulated to unleash the chaos bred by decades of abuse. That the ophiles continue to be a party to such an effort by ignoring true discussion, makes them nothing more than cute bobble-heads on the dashboard of the NWO-mobile.
Of course...
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Thanks FOH. Now, 'cain't' we all just get along? :)
Here's one of Ayers victims (so it's Hannity, big shit). I was on the job then and obviously the bomb aged him, b/c I look much younger :)
There is a different crowd here and I don't think conspiracies are a problem. And even if there is a conspiracy, an some gang cooperates to give a person a high count -- so what? No one else will know about it. It won't hurt the person's posting privileges. And the person who gets the high count will know why - he's fighting with an organized gang and bozo counts are what gangs do. But it also ends the fight because the gang can't fight and keep the guy on bozo at the same time. Personally, I think the feedback you get from the confidential count far outweighs the harm it does you. If 15 people have you on bozo, then you are doing something wrong and you should be grateful to find this out.
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Prodigy ('92-'96) and tFR ('96-'00) Do they still exist?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I must have misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting that everyone's bozo count was displayed next to their name.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Didn't I mention that I have Hannity on bozo? I am sorry, I tried to watch your video but it begins with Hannity's face, his mouth moving so I had to interrupt it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
heheheheh FOFLOLOL
Prodigy died, in part, at the hand of tFR. Robinson didn't charge and they did ($30 a month?). Rimmer is still there but it's a heavily moderated Republican echo chamber.
Sheesh, still...? Remember when he was the anti-Clinton-anti-Bush...
I mentioned that, and it would help civility, but I think Neils original idea is best. He thought long and hard on it and it was field tested for many years on LP. A quick fix somewhere probably just causes a new problem to pop up elsewhere. That seems to be what is happening here. The people who cried about their bozo counts got a bone, which really doesn't help their bozo count, and a whole bunch of new problems popped up. Best not to mess with stuff that has been in place for years and has always worked pretty well. If one or two people have a problem with the the tried and tested system, which was the case here, better to tell them to adjust. Don't try to adjust the world to accommodate them.
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Those boys are too skinny.... but so talented!
"Get thee hence satan"
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Comments (77 - 136) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestGreat to see you back here, Cyni.
#37. To: noone222 (#32)
(Drop Dead Twice)/> ------------ FOH
#38. To: ... (#35)
If your count shoots up, then you should take a long, hard look at what you're doing here. A high count indicates: (1) You piss people off, (2) You're probably hurting your cause, and (3) You're wasting your time.
#39. To: Jethro Tull (#29)
#40. To: christine (#31)
(Edited)
t's not as simple as that...you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure. it's not just about civility. people are offended by different opinions or expression of preferences or dislikes too.
#41. To: Arator (#34)
Pink - sensitive/effete/snob, has put more than 20 posters on ignore
#42. To: lodwick (#39)
I don't have the time, energy, or the desire to engage them, or see them, on any level.
#43. To: FOH (#37)
Doug, are you suggesting I should drop dead ?
#44. To: Arator (#34)
Perhaps, poster names should be color-coded:
#45. To: noone222 (#38)
If your count shoots up, then you should take a long, hard look at what you're doing here. A high count indicates: (1) You piss people off, (2) You're probably hurting your cause, and (3) You're wasting your time.
#46. To: Peppa (#45)
(Edited)
(Edit: I like the idea of knowing exactly which commies and other flakes have bozoed me, but I have a pretty good idea without such functionality)
#47. To: ... (#35)
#48. To: FOH (#46)
I'm right this moment on 15 filters and I'm LOVIN it...;)
#49. To: Peppa (#33)
#50. To: noone222 (#42)
#51. To: ... (#16)
#52. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#48)
Yes, but the 15 who filtered you out don't know it and, possibly, couldn't care less.
#53. To: FOH (#46)
(Edited)
I'm right this moment on 15 filters and I'm LOVIN it...;)
#54. To: ... (#40)
And they're not even offended by the garbage spewed by the LP newcomers, just annoyed.
#55. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#54)
#56. To: Cynicom (#49)
Some had and have the rallying cry of overt "racism".
#57. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#56)
(Edited)
I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing racism, Nazism, zionism or anti-Semitism, even terrorism.
WEATHERMEN bump
#58. To: ... (#55)
It might also be a good idea to just have the bozo count appear with the poster's name.
#59. To: FOH (#57)
#60. To: Cynicom (#49)
Some had and have the rallying cry of overt "racism". Using their accepted definition, I am admitted racist.
#61. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#59)
I know too little about the Weathermen to express any views on their activities.
#62. To: Lighten up everybody ... (#59)
#63. To: Peppa (#60)
That's good stuff right there...
#64. To: FOH (#63)
That's good stuff right there...
#65. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#59)
#66. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#47)
And the ignore has the advantage of being a very private matter while, indeed, giving the target something to think about when a significantly large numbers of individuals don't want to hear from him/her no more. It's a much better system than LibertyForum with it's collective ratings system that could lift someone or make someone invisible based on ratings on their posts.
#67. To: Jethro Tull (#29)
The most successful forums I've posted on had NO BOZO.
#68. To: ... (#66)
#69. To: Jethro Tull (#65)
#70. To: Peppa (#64)
Now, 'cain't' we all just get along? :)
#71. To: iconoclast (#67)
#72. To: Jethro Tull (#65)
#73. To: Jethro Tull (#71)
Rimmer is still there but it's a heavily moderated Republican echo chamber.
#74. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#68)
(Edited)
I must have misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting that everyone's bozo count was displayed next to their name.
#75. To: FOH (#70)
#76. To: FOH (#37)
Doug, are you suggesting I should drop dead ?
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