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Title: One Possible Solution to 4um's Bozo Controversy
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Published: May 10, 2008
Author: Me
Post Date: 2008-05-10 17:58:01 by Arator
Keywords: Bozos, Controversy, Solution
Views: 5404
Comments: 136
I have recently become aware of a recent 4um controversy that has apparently caused a schism in the forum and I would like to offer one possible solution to the problem for the forum to consider. On the one hand, bozoing inhibits exchanges between posters (and might be abused via registration of fake ID's just to run up the bozo count on targeted posters and make them think that they are more generally disliked than they really are). On the other hand, bozoing allow users to disassociate themselves from posters who they would rather not be associated with (for whatever reason). Christine recently opted to balance these two goods by lowering the per-poster bozo count to 10 (believing that this would encourage more interaction and discourage bozo abuses via fake IDs, while still allowing a reasonable freedom to disassociate). Unfortunately, posters who had had more than 10 posters bozo'ed could no long disassociate with the number of posters that they wished to as a result and opted instead to disassociate themselves from the forum entirely. So, the basic problem is this: can the forum allow users to disassociate themselves from other posters as they like while, at the same time, serve its purpose, which is to foster free and open exchanges between posters who do not necessarily agree politically? I think the answer might be yes, if, that is, the forum's poster-to-poster interactions were more like real life. As it stands now, the forums' interactions are not like real life because bozoing is cheap for the bozoer and of weak effect on the bozoed. This is so because, unlike real life, the persons being bozoed do not know who is bozoing them. This fact greatly diminishes the social repercussions of bozoing and being bozoed. In real life, on the other hand, if someone choose to not speak to (or associate with) someone else, both parties know it. Hence, for the bozoer, there are social consequences (or costs) to disassociating that must be considered (as well as the benefits). And for the bozoed, the costs of being disassociated from are fully known and weighed against the benefits of continuing their present mode of social interaction, allowing them to adjust their behavior accordingly (or not). If 4um operated more like a real life, posters would know exactly who was bozoing them. This would eliminate the incentive for some to inflate bozo-counts via the registration of fake IDs, since the bozoed would then know that they were being falsely bozoed. This would also result in an optimal level of disassociation (and forum interaction) because: 1) the bozoers would bear the full social costs (as well as receive the benefits) of disassociation, and 2) the bozoed would know the full social costs (as well as the benefits) of their own posting behavior, and could moderate their behavior accordingly. In sum, I suggest that the number of bozos be unlimited but that the bozo'd know not just the bozo count but also exactly who has bozoed them. I would also keep PM communications open between the bozoer and the bozoed, because, in real life, even those who have disassociated have the possibility of changing their mode of relating and reassociating later on a better basis. These changes I believe would lead to an optimal level of forum interaction (and disassociation).
Poster Comment: What do ya think?
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#1. To: christine, Jethro Tull, aristeides, Robin, Red Jones (#0)
For your consideration.
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
Do away with the bozo nonsense. I Bozo no one, never have and have no interest in such. Most people here claim to be adults, if they cannot manage the the flow on forum, "ignore" is always available, barring that, just perhaps they need to look elsewhere.
Actually the problem that 4um has is called O'marxist mole-itis and before long it will swell to the point that 4um as has been known will cease to exist. Good work to all you Establishment Marxist huggers, if that was/is your intent...
It would probably work. But the way I understand the problem, a very select few individuals went nuts because they were racking up big bozo counts. Rather than moderate their behavior and decrease their counts that way, they petitioned to have the number of bozo slots cut down to ten. (And I seriously doubt if this did anything to improve their bozo count. Most people don't have ten people on bozo to begin with.) I've always thought a simpler solution was to simply not publish the bozo count. You wouldn't know how many people had you on bozo. This would both prevent the bozo being used as a weapon and it would keep the cry babies happy. They wouldn't know people had them on bozo. It wouldn't affect the majority of people at all. Most people couldn't give a rats ass if someone has them on bozo.
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Agree 100% - great idea. Thanks.
4um existed for years before you began to distrupt here. And it existed with exactly the same people you now try to silence with your yukon style insults and harassment tacitics. They are, in fact, the founders of this site. You on the other hand, are a rude shallow, idiot, who wandered in years later and began an effort to silence people with your yukon/ALS LP stuff. So please don't talk to us about what is good for the site, Mr. Newcomer with the site record bozo count. (And the childish and moronic behavior you show above is the reason you had to run sobbing to the mods about your bozo count.)
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Great to see you back here, Cyni. Cheers.
i think it could make things interesting. i have no idea what it would require as far as coding the software.
Yes, that's a solid answer, as was Vast's (rolling them off after time). The problem was that some here used the bozo as a rating system, similar to LFs dopey rating system. Let the cowards and sock puppets ID themselves if they choose to avoid conflict. Of course, I still choose to toss the bloody thing in the can all together, but god forbid some here don't get the "pleasant experience" they pay for :)
Curiously, I went to my Setup page, and we can't post (copy/paste) who we've BZ'ed. I used to have one BZ on me, but now it's down to zero...I don't know if the member went to poster-heaven, or what? What about if someone doesn't post or reply in a certain period of time, you guys discuss this, they then have to re-register with 4? Does that make any sense?
Social behavior becomes null and void once a person can hide. Do away with the bozo, learn to ignore or look for a forum that meets ones taste.. The "NEW" forum is already throwing people out, thrown by the worst bozoers of all. Hypocrites.
I bozoed the U.S. Government ... and they're not missed.
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
the expiring of bozos as vast suggested would take care of that.
I can't see much value in 'knowing' who has bozoed whom. It does not matter. If you are a 'bozoed' person you probably earned it. If you wanted real life similar situations... I haven't watched 'network news' in more than 15 years. I effectively bozoed them and, I am sure, they don't care to know that it was me not watching their evening news. Some people never watch Hannity or O'Reilley or Rush. I am one of those who don't. Does Rush deserve to know that I'm not listening to his crap? I don't think so. I bozoed him maybe 10 years ago and we are both happier for it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I worked for them 23 years, fought all the way, and I LOST. It was like fighting a fire eating dragon with chopsticks. Money going down rat holes, no one cared. Good work does get done by the slugs and drones like myself that care to stick it out. However, for every drone there is a "management" person hiding behind a desk somewhere with his "private" secretary in tow.
How does it rate people if you don't spill the beans? Why tell others what your count is? If your count is confidential, it just provides some nice feed back as to what people really think of you. And the people who have you on bozo won't listen to you even if you take their bozo abilities away. They will just find another way to ignore you. To get them to listen, you've got to talk to them in a way they want to be talked to.
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This 4UM is just right the way it is ... I don't care who bozoes me ...
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Let's call it "ignore" instead of "bozo." That way there will no hurt feelings. :) About 50 or so should be enough for anyone. Anyone that ignores more than 20 should be publicly listed as doing so, maybe an asterisk by their name or something.
God is always good!
LOL. A forum without posters is like a garden without flowers (or, in the case of FOH, weeds).
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
IGNORE-ant !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I agree. My count has always hovered around two and I couldn't care less. At least in the sense that it makes me mad. A hight count would indicate that I'm doing something wrong. I think one guy who has me is a dead guy who has been there years. Not sure who the other is and I don't care.
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This is the first forum I have not been thrown out of, a record. I have bruises to prove it.
(or, in the case of FOH, STINK weeds).
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Same thing. Last time I checked, I had 3 who didn't want to hear from me. It does not anger me and I don't feel like I should know who they are. If I saw that 15 or 20 or 10 found me unworthy, I would give it some thought and begin thinking that maybe there is something uncool about my online presence.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Yeah, it's unfortunate that you Marxist Establishment propagandists are found to be offensive and lacking...on your face. You bet I'm a weed in your World Marxist Revolutionary garden...big, bad, noxious, deadly weed.
Chrissy has huge ... hahahahaha .... quevos !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Bitter clinger...
glad to see you posting again Cynicom.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
The most successful forums I've posted on had NO BOZO. Prodigy ('92-'96) and tFR ('96-'00) There was mild moderation, but oh my, the fun, fights, conflict and political exchanges we had. This selective BS today, where everyone has to agree or they get all huffy, is for amateurs. Lets use our 1st before it's curtailed.
Thank you for boiling it down for us. Well said.
it's not as simple as that...you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure. it's not just about civility. people are offended by different opinions or expression of preferences or dislikes too.
DDT (Drop Dead Twice)/> ------------ FOH "The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
The problem was with the intellectual honesty of the debate. Without that, a zillion bozo's or none won't and can't 'fix' anything. For those that left, due to their objection to others points of view, their ideology and behaviour matches that of the media, which is to ignore that which they do not think is relevant, important, destructive, instructive, and to silence through intimidation via political correctness.
Interesting suggestion. Perhaps, poster names should be color-coded: Pink - sensitive/effete/snob, has put more than 20 posters on ignore Black - normal Grey - maladjusted/buzzkill/pariah, has been put on ignore by more than 20 posters
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
That's why I like the function. I pay attention to it. If you are here to reach people then it is the best feedback you have. If your count shoots up, then you should take a long, hard look at what you're doing here. A high count indicates: (1) You piss people off, (2) You're probably hurting your cause, and (3) You're wasting your time. People like FOH consider a record high bozo count to be a badge of honor. He actually posted this today. But that is simply stupid beyond belief. He's got an objective record that says he's failing and he crows about it on the board. And recall that until a couple of weeks ago, the 4um view mirrored the larger national view very closely. This has changed with some of the LP newcomers such as FOH and Mud, but it is still close enough to say that if it doesn't work here, it doesn't work in real life.
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Cheers. Ditto that!
Doug, are you suggesting I should drop dead ? That's not very Jesus of you...4um preacher.
You might be telling the very painful truth .... maybe !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
In theory, I agree: but when obvious trolls, shills, and shitheads begin posting, I like the ability to whack them from what I see. I don't have the time, energy, or the desire to engage them, or see them, on any level.
I think people are offended by FOH calling them "commies" and "shit for brains". Or Mud calling them "penis breath". They're not offended by opinions. And they're not even offended by the garbage spewed by the LP newcomers, just annoyed. They have to wade through that garbage to get to what was the old 4um. People have been here for years and exposed to a great variety of opinions. I've seen very few problems with a respectfully presented opinion no matter what it is. Most of the people who made this place what it is are old timers who can handle that.
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No, no, no...that's obviously the color that should be given to every single last one of you ObamaCONs...
Kardovite ... try it ... if that don't work get some meth and a shotgun !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
That's not very Jesus of you...4um preacher. Demo your nasty, counter productive crap for us. It would be good to have it right here on the thread.
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Pink - sensitive/effete/snob, has put more than 20 posters on ignore Black - normal Grey - maladjusted/buzzkill/pariah, has been put on ignore by more than 20 posters lol - I'm not sure that we could pay Neil enough for that coding...cool idea, but Dear God.
You might be telling the very painful truth .... maybe ! Actually, it works equally well in reverse.
I'm right this moment on 15 filters and I'm LOVIN it...;)
And the ignore has the advantage of being a very private matter while, indeed, giving the target something to think about when a significantly large numbers of individuals don't want to hear from him/her no more. It's a much better system than LibertyForum with it's collective ratings system that could lift someone or make someone invisible based on ratings on their posts. It was an interesting experiment but I saw people forced into practical invisibility because their adversaries would gang up on them, downrating their posts and preventing everybody from 'seeing' their views. It was also causing endless 'appeals' to the admins for unfair downrates so it was a waste of time and a distraction. If I decide to ignore someone... it's my business and my right entirely and there's nowhere to appeal it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Yes, but the 15 who filtered you out don't know it and, possibly, couldn't care less.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Some had and have the rallying cry of overt "racism". Using their accepted definition, I am admitted racist. With that in mind, I have never met a man that was NOT racist. Racism knows no bounds of color, ethnicity, religion. Obama said we small town backwater Americans did not like others that were "different". He is correct. What he forgot to add was the the reverse is only too true. After having a knife pulled on me in the inner city of Baltimore and the man going to slit my throat simply because I was "white", one comes to the realization that minorities hate me because I am "white".
Gulping Kardovite by the fistful here - good stuff, I guess, I'm still posting.
If you aren't concerned about people knowing you've bozo'd them, who cares?
And...so ?
That means: (1) You piss people off. (2) You're hurting your cause. (2) You're wasting your time. And after spending many years in a large corporate environment as person who hears these sorts of complaints, I can tell you one thing for certain: For every person who bothers to complain by taking the effort to bozo you, there are two more who feel the same way but are too lazy to act. Take your count and triple it, and then subtract it from 50. That's how many people you reach. Maybe 3 to 5. And half of these probably pay attention because they don't like you. So all in all, you are a complete and utter fool.
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True. And, if Christine could implement the auto-expiration for filters, then the LP or FR or, God forbid, DU or Kos newcomers could quickly notice that no one is listening to them while they act as a-holes and they may decide to re-adjust so when the filters reset they are not as offensive or useless and get accepted or at least tolerated.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Auto expiration would be good. It might also be a good idea to just have the bozo count appear with the poster's name. That would certainly encourage civility. It would instantly tell you what sort of person you were dealing with.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing racism, Nazism, zionism or anti-Semitism, even terrorism. We are just talking here and something good or at least interesting may come out of it. If someone would try to recruit at this site for political assassinations then, maybe that person should be bozoed. But, simply declaring your racism and, hopefully, discussing it in an intelligent way is acceptable to me even though I understand why some people may want to filter you out.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I disagree with that. That would have 'the black sheep' identified and it would encourage targeting certain individuals by certain groups. I believe that the filtering should be private. I did announce the identities of the 3 I filtered out myself but now I believe that it was wrong to do it. At the most, I should have sent a private email to the target but not publicly announce it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I know too little about the Weathermen to express any views on their activities. But, as a general rule, I tend to respect those who back their views with action while risking their own life or freedom in the process. I tend to have more respect for those who act as individuals than for those who do it as part of an organized group. Note that 'respect' does not equal agreement or approval or admiration.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
With that in mind, I have never met a man that was NOT racist. Racism knows no bounds of color, ethnicity, religion. Obama said we small town backwater Americans did not like others that were "different". He is correct. What he forgot to add was the the reverse is only too true. After having a knife pulled on me in the inner city of Baltimore and the man going to slit my throat simply because I was "white", one comes to the realization that minorities hate me because I am "white". You are absolutely correct. Obama himself wanted to open the 'convesation' on race, as it was past due. When we decided to take him up on his offer, we learned it was so that we could listen to more one way clanking and whacking. That you have a such a story... no amount of browbeating can convince you that you had it coming. Illegal aliens roam and kill throughout the country, yet we are crucified for objecting... There has been a conversation going for a long long time. Obama, plucked the door open, at a time specified long ago. We are being manipulated to unleash the chaos bred by decades of abuse. That the ophiles continue to be a party to such an effort by ignoring true discussion, makes them nothing more than cute bobble-heads on the dashboard of the NWO-mobile.
Of course...
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Thanks FOH. Now, 'cain't' we all just get along? :)
Here's one of Ayers victims (so it's Hannity, big shit). I was on the job then and obviously the bomb aged him, b/c I look much younger :)
There is a different crowd here and I don't think conspiracies are a problem. And even if there is a conspiracy, an some gang cooperates to give a person a high count -- so what? No one else will know about it. It won't hurt the person's posting privileges. And the person who gets the high count will know why - he's fighting with an organized gang and bozo counts are what gangs do. But it also ends the fight because the gang can't fight and keep the guy on bozo at the same time. Personally, I think the feedback you get from the confidential count far outweighs the harm it does you. If 15 people have you on bozo, then you are doing something wrong and you should be grateful to find this out.
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Prodigy ('92-'96) and tFR ('96-'00) Do they still exist?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I must have misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting that everyone's bozo count was displayed next to their name.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Didn't I mention that I have Hannity on bozo? I am sorry, I tried to watch your video but it begins with Hannity's face, his mouth moving so I had to interrupt it.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
heheheheh FOFLOLOL
Prodigy died, in part, at the hand of tFR. Robinson didn't charge and they did ($30 a month?). Rimmer is still there but it's a heavily moderated Republican echo chamber.
Sheesh, still...? Remember when he was the anti-Clinton-anti-Bush...
I mentioned that, and it would help civility, but I think Neils original idea is best. He thought long and hard on it and it was field tested for many years on LP. A quick fix somewhere probably just causes a new problem to pop up elsewhere. That seems to be what is happening here. The people who cried about their bozo counts got a bone, which really doesn't help their bozo count, and a whole bunch of new problems popped up. Best not to mess with stuff that has been in place for years and has always worked pretty well. If one or two people have a problem with the the tried and tested system, which was the case here, better to tell them to adjust. Don't try to adjust the world to accommodate them.
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Those boys are too skinny.... but so talented!
"Get thee hence satan"
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
That was an excellent post, Peppa.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. How's this. Charge a buck a bozo per month, and watch them melt away. As cheap as most people are, they'd avoid the filter like a hair shirt.
Thanks very much JD.
You're welcome. Glad to cybersee you my friend.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Ghost and Ari come to mind. They would not take a hundred dollar bet on a sure thing.
Same here! :)
Be sure to call the "penis breath" or "shit for brains" when you mention rational discussion. Or maybe "commie". And if you don't want to do it yourself, have Mud or FOH or some of the other anti Obama posters do it for you. The important thing is to silence points you can't refute.
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LOL!!! Makes scrolling down way more affordable.
Why would you not want to know if a big part of the site wasn't buying your message?
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Talk to yourself a lot when you're pounding brews, do you ?
LOL!!! Makes scrolling down way more affordable. I'd be bringing into 4um some 15 frns a month as the market currently is situated. I want a cut !!! ;)
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I got a better idea ... charge the bozos a buck a month for their bozo count and watch them fade away.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I even talk to scum like you if I get shit-faced enough !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I call for more...
Good tune & vid.
Along with the right to speak freely, there is also the right to ignore those that one chooses to ignore. A person does not have the right to force another person to listen, and that other person has the right not to listen if they so choose. It's all part of the Freedom of Speech, where it goes both ways, not just one... I've been bozoed by more than a few on ElPee, and although at times I wondered who it might be that didn't want to hear what I had to say, it never really bothered me a whole bunch. One needs to understand that not everyone wants to hear what one has to say, and it's their right not to.
Hey, everybody...it's Saturday night happy hour on the 4um...Cheers!
Cheers!
Thank you and Buckeye for being so appreciative ... I get so tired of fighting all of the time ... especially when we all know something is soooo wrong but can't seem to get along long enough to resolve it. So once in awhile ... a few beers and www.live365.com gets me thru it !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
You're a winner ! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise !! ;)
It's time we all pointed out that your Lenin tagline is awesome.
I'll bump to that
"Purrrrrrr Energy"
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I was catchin hell over Thomas Jefferson ... so I retreated to Lenin ... Just for FOH !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
So once in awhile ... a few beers and www.live365.com gets me thru it !!! YMW 222! we all know something is soooo wrong but can't seem to get along long enough to resolve it. It's not can't, it's won't. There is no 'try', only 'do'. There's little will for either.. I guess. Thanks for the link, I will check it out!
Sorry for the poor communication. Lets say you have 15 on bozo, you'd pay the forum $15 per month. christine deserves a buck or three.
They have all kinds of stations playing a vast array of music !!! It's a good find ! What is YMW 222 ????
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
You are Most Welcome! 222=noone222 :)
While I'm very certain Christine does deserve a buck or three, doubt she wants to install Pay-pal.
Thanks ... I really liked Robert Palmer .... addicted to love !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Me too. Gone too soon.... Another fave.
So nice ... real raw talent !!!
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
He was awesome. Okay, one more.... Jon Bon Jovi, Seal, Robert Palmer - Like A Rolling Stone
Or at least make their bozo list expire after a month. As for the very idea of a bozo list? It's a tool, and like every other tool can be misused. I felt the decision to reduce the number of slots was arbitrary and seemingly done under duress, but hindsight being what it is and all.. I don't see a problem with an unlimited number of bozo slots, from a philosophical standpoint, participating in a forum no more demands interacting with every poster any more than visiting a mall demands purchasing from each merchant, or telling me if I want to use US Postal Service I must read every piece of junk mail they deliver. Sounds a bit labor intensive, not to mention intrusive.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
That is exactly how I see it, Dakmar. I recognize that it is Christine's forum and she can do what she wants as far as the bozo filter--either have it or not, or one with unlimited number of bozos or a very limited number--but in theory I don't see anything wrong with having a large number if you are going to have the filter. What is the magic number and why limit it to ten? It is not that important to me since I only have one poster on mine (and one poster has me bozoed--I hope it is the same one who I have bozoed but I don't know).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I didn't hear the quote.........
Can I change my screen name to Ned Ryerson? Needlenose Ned? Ned the Head? BING!
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Few nites ago I signed in to a Bush chat room and got booted afore I could make a post. I used the name Obama. No sense of humor.
Check again.
I was there ... and the song is awesome !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
I used the name Obama. Try using JudyGarlandFan next time you get a wild hair, they'll make you their new queen.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Ok will do. I will adjust the horizontal hold and see what happens ;)
Awesome !
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
Got it this time... he is sharp. I watched his bio recently, and he's so much different than I had imagined. Good interviews! TY!
No kidding? How fun. I really like Seals music too...
Possibly another solution would be for a "part-time bozo" where you put someone on bozo for a week or two and then they automatically come off of bozo. There is no "one size fits all" solution, but this is another incremental idea. Throwing this out as an additional suggestion and for comment.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Back in the 90s, there was no bozo, no banning, you took your shots or ignored them. Anyone that recalls A+Bert, recalls an expert jouster.
Robert's vids got it done for me.
Gads! LOL! :)
Back in the 90s, flame wars were legion as well. Those of us who learned from that experience are better for it. Those who are new....the lesson is still learned the hard way.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
James. At least one person here was using the bozo to demoralize a poster(s). H/she would run the bozo's up usually as a contentious thread was in progress. Take it on my word. That said, it's Christine's house and she can alter, change, remove or add slots as she pleases. I'll stay regardless of the decision. But that is what caused this event.
You might get more talking, but it would probably be less honest. On the one hand, bozoing inhibits exchanges between posters (and might be abused via registration of fake ID's just to run up the bozo count on targeted posters and make them think that they are more generally disliked than they really are). Or maybe those folks could grow a pair.
Jazmyn Singleton, a black Duke senior agrees. After living in a predominantly white dorm freshman year, she lives with five African-American women in an all-black dormitory. “Both communities tend to be very judgmental,” says Ms. Singleton, ruefully. “There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are ‘black’ because you can’t count blacks who hang out with white people.”
See you guys tomorrow morning. I think everything is fine as is.
God is always good!
I don't think one person can do that. That used to be possible when you could bozo someone more than once, but Neil fixed that back when Op was posting here. That trick no longer exists. I think if you get multiple bozos today, multiple people are putting you on bozo.
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For the record, I have never had you on bozo. In fact, I didn't even know there was a problem until after it became full blown. I don't know what was incrementing your bozo count. But I had absolutely nothing to do with it. If you have a shred of doubt about this, Neil should be able to confirm it from the system logs. A bozo involves an entry in a db table and given the MySql database you can get a dump and see it. It doesn't go away. I think the simplest explanation is that there was one person on this forum behind each of the bozos showing on your stat page.
.
I'm not talking about me. I'm not talking about you. The system was abused by persons unknown to person(s) I know. The intention was clear.
I wasn't at the concert ... I was in Nam (sorry, got side-tracked). I like Seals music too ... Kissed by a Rose is just one that I like.
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation". Vladimir Lenin
#2. To: Arator (#0)
#3. To: Arator, *Obama Reality Check* (#0)
I have recently become aware of a recent 4um controversy that has apparently caused a schism in the forum
#4. To: Arator (#0)
#5. To: Arator (#0)
I suggest that the number of bozos be unlimited but that the bozo'd know not just the bozo count but also exactly who has bozoed them.
#6. To: FOH (#3)
(Edited)
Actually the problem that 4um has is called O'marxist mole-itis and before long it will swell to the point that 4um as has been known will cease to exist.
#7. To: Cynicom (#2)
#8. To: Arator, Pinguinite (#0)
#9. To: Arator (#1)
#10. To: christine. those who love 4 (#8)
#11. To: Jethro Tull (#9)
#12. To: Cynicom (#2)
Bozo no one, never have and have no interest in such.
#13. To: lodwick, a vast rightwing conspirator (#10)
#14. To: Arator (#0)
(Edited)
#15. To: noone222 (#12)
#16. To: Jethro Tull (#9)
(Edited)
The problem was that some here used the bozo as a rating system,
#17. To: Cynicom (#11)
The "NEW" forum is already throwing people out, thrown by the worst bozoers of all. Hypocrites.
#18. To: Arator (#0)
#19. To: Jethro Tull, FOH (#9)
Of course, I still choose to toss the bloody thing in the can all together, but god forbid some here don't get the "pleasant experience" they pay for :)
#20. To: RickyJ (#18)
Anyone that ignores more than 20 should be publicly listed as
#21. To: noone222 (#17)
(Edited)
This 4UM is just right the way it is ... I don't care who bozoes me ...
#22. To: noone222 (#17)
This 4UM is just right the way it is ... I don't care who bozoes me ...
#23. To: Arator (#19)
(or, in the case of FOH, weeds).
#24. To: ... (#21)
#25. To: Arator (#19)
A forum without posters is like a garden without flowers (or, in the case of FOH, weeds).
#26. To: Cynicom (#22)
This is the first forum I have not been thrown out of, a record.
#27. To: noone222 (#23)
(or, in the case of FOH, STINK weeds).
#28. To: Cynicom (#2)
#29. To: Cynicom (#11)
The "NEW" forum is already throwing people out, thrown by the worst bozoers of all.
#30. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#24)
If I saw that 15 or 20 or 10 found me unworthy, I would give it some thought and begin thinking that maybe there is something uncool about my online presence.
#31. To: ... (#16)
To get them to listen, you've got to talk to them in a way they want to be talked to.
#32. To: FOH (#25)
You bet I'm a weed
#33. To: christine (#13)
#34. To: RickyJ (#18)
About 50 or so should be enough for anyone. Anyone that ignores more than 20 should be publicly listed as doing so, maybe an asterisk by their name or something.
#35. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#24)
If I saw that 15 or 20 or 10 found me unworthy, I would give it some thought and begin thinking that maybe there is something uncool about my online presence.
#36. To: lodwick, cyni (#7)
Great to see you back here, Cyni.
#37. To: noone222 (#32)
(Drop Dead Twice)/> ------------ FOH
#38. To: ... (#35)
If your count shoots up, then you should take a long, hard look at what you're doing here. A high count indicates: (1) You piss people off, (2) You're probably hurting your cause, and (3) You're wasting your time.
#39. To: Jethro Tull (#29)
#40. To: christine (#31)
(Edited)
t's not as simple as that...you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure. it's not just about civility. people are offended by different opinions or expression of preferences or dislikes too.
#41. To: Arator (#34)
Pink - sensitive/effete/snob, has put more than 20 posters on ignore
#42. To: lodwick (#39)
I don't have the time, energy, or the desire to engage them, or see them, on any level.
#43. To: FOH (#37)
Doug, are you suggesting I should drop dead ?
#44. To: Arator (#34)
Perhaps, poster names should be color-coded:
#45. To: noone222 (#38)
If your count shoots up, then you should take a long, hard look at what you're doing here. A high count indicates: (1) You piss people off, (2) You're probably hurting your cause, and (3) You're wasting your time.
#46. To: Peppa (#45)
(Edited)
(Edit: I like the idea of knowing exactly which commies and other flakes have bozoed me, but I have a pretty good idea without such functionality)
#47. To: ... (#35)
#48. To: FOH (#46)
I'm right this moment on 15 filters and I'm LOVIN it...;)
#49. To: Peppa (#33)
#50. To: noone222 (#42)
#51. To: ... (#16)
#52. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#48)
Yes, but the 15 who filtered you out don't know it and, possibly, couldn't care less.
#53. To: FOH (#46)
(Edited)
I'm right this moment on 15 filters and I'm LOVIN it...;)
#54. To: ... (#40)
And they're not even offended by the garbage spewed by the LP newcomers, just annoyed.
#55. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#54)
#56. To: Cynicom (#49)
Some had and have the rallying cry of overt "racism".
#57. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#56)
(Edited)
I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing racism, Nazism, zionism or anti-Semitism, even terrorism.
WEATHERMEN bump
#58. To: ... (#55)
It might also be a good idea to just have the bozo count appear with the poster's name.
#59. To: FOH (#57)
#60. To: Cynicom (#49)
Some had and have the rallying cry of overt "racism". Using their accepted definition, I am admitted racist.
#61. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#59)
I know too little about the Weathermen to express any views on their activities.
#62. To: Lighten up everybody ... (#59)
#63. To: Peppa (#60)
That's good stuff right there...
#64. To: FOH (#63)
That's good stuff right there...
#65. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#59)
#66. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#47)
And the ignore has the advantage of being a very private matter while, indeed, giving the target something to think about when a significantly large numbers of individuals don't want to hear from him/her no more. It's a much better system than LibertyForum with it's collective ratings system that could lift someone or make someone invisible based on ratings on their posts.
#67. To: Jethro Tull (#29)
The most successful forums I've posted on had NO BOZO.
#68. To: ... (#66)
#69. To: Jethro Tull (#65)
#70. To: Peppa (#64)
Now, 'cain't' we all just get along? :)
#71. To: iconoclast (#67)
#72. To: Jethro Tull (#65)
#73. To: Jethro Tull (#71)
Rimmer is still there but it's a heavily moderated Republican echo chamber.
#74. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#68)
(Edited)
I must have misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting that everyone's bozo count was displayed next to their name.
#75. To: FOH (#70)
#76. To: FOH (#37)
Doug, are you suggesting I should drop dead ?
#77. To: Peppa (#60)
We are being manipulated to unleash the chaos bred by decades of abuse. That the ophiles continue to be a party to such an effort by ignoring true discussion, makes them nothing more than cute bobble-heads on the dashboard of the NWO-mobile.
Lord Acton
#78. To: christine (#71)
#79. To: James Deffenbach (#77)
That was an excellent post, Peppa.
#80. To: Peppa (#79)
Lord Acton
#81. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
#82. To: James Deffenbach (#80)
Glad to cybersee you my friend.
#83. To: Peppa (#60)
That the ophiles continue to be a party to such an effort by ignoring true discussion ...
#84. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
(Edited)
As cheap as most people are, they'd avoid the filter like a hair shirt.
#85. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
How's this. Charge a buck a bozo per month, and watch them melt away. As cheap as most people are, they'd avoid the filter like a hair shirt.
#86. To: noone222 (#76)
"Get thee hence satan"
#87. To: Peppa, Jethro Tull, christine (#84)
As cheap as most people are, they'd avoid the filter like a hair shirt.
#88. To: What do all the people know ????? (#85)
#89. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
Charge a buck a bozo per month,
#90. To: FOH (#86)
Talk to yourself a lot when you're pounding brews, do you ?
#91. To: noone222 (#88)
#92. To: noone222 (#88)
#93. To: Arator, christine (#0)
So, the basic problem is this: can the forum allow users to disassociate themselves from other posters as they like while, at the same time, serve its purpose, which is to foster free and open exchanges between posters who do not necessarily agree politically?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#94. To: noone222 (#90)
if I get shit-faced enough !
#95. To: CadetD, ALL (#94)
it's Saturday night happy hour on the 4um...Cheers!
#96. To: Peppa (#92)
#97. To: noone222 (#90)
I even talk to scum like you if I get shit-faced enough !
#98. To: noone222 (#96)
#99. To: buckeye (#98)
#100. To: All (#99)
hunnerd
#101. To: FOH, Pure energy .... ZAPPPPPPP (#97)
#102. To: buckeye (#98)
It's time we all pointed out that your Lenin tagline is awesome.
#103. To: noone222 (#96)
(Edited)
Thank you and Buckeye for being so appreciative ... I get so tired of fighting all of the time ... especially when we all know something is soooo wrong but can't seem to get along long enough to resolve it.
#104. To: ... (#85)
Why would you not want to know if a big part of the site wasn't buying your message?
#105. To: Peppa (#103)
Thanks for the link, I will check it out!
#106. To: noone222 (#105)
What is YMW 222 ????
#107. To: Jethro Tull (#104)
you'd pay the forum $15 per month.
#108. To: Peppa (#106)
#109. To: noone222 (#108)
Thanks ... I really liked Robert Palmer .... addicted to love !
#110. To: Peppa (#109)
#111. To: noone222 (#110)
So nice ... real raw talent !!!
#112. To: lodwick, christine, pinguinite, Arator (#10)
What about if someone doesn't post or reply in a certain period of time, you guys discuss this, they then have to re-register with 4?
#113. To: Peppa (#111)
(Edited)
#114. To: Dakmar, christine (#112)
I don't see a problem with an unlimited number of bozo slots, from a philosophical standpoint, participating in a forum no more demands interacting with every poster any more than visiting a mall demands purchasing from each merchant, or telling me if I want to use US Postal Service I must read every piece of junk mail they deliver. Sounds a bit labor intensive, not to mention intrusive.
Lord Acton
#115. To: buckeye (#113)
#116. To: Cynicom, Christine (#11)
Social behavior becomes null and void once a person can hide.
#117. To: Dakmar (#116)
#118. To: Peppa (#115)
#119. To: Peppa (#111)
#120. To: Cynicom (#117)
Few nites ago I signed in to a Bush chat room and got booted afore I could make a post.
#121. To: buckeye (#118)
Check again.
#122. To: Peppa (#111)
#123. To: buckeye (#118)
Check again.
#124. To: noone222 (#119)
I was there ... and the song is awesome !
#125. To: Arator (#0)
#126. To: mirage (#125)
#127. To: Peppa, noone222, TA lovers here (#109)
#128. To: lodwick (#127)
Robert's vids got it done for me.
#129. To: Cynicom (#126)
Back in the 90s, there was no bozo, no banning, you took your shots or ignored them. Anyone that recalls A+Bert, recalls an expert jouster.
#130. To: James Deffenbach, Dakmar, all (#114)
What is the magic number and why limit it to ten?
#131. To: Arator (#0)
What do ya think?
#132. To: ALL (#131)
#133. To: Jethro Tull (#130)
At least one person here was using the bozo to demoralize a poster(s). H/she would run the bozo's up usually as a contentious thread was in progress.
#134. To: Jethro Tull (#130)
(Edited)
#135. To: ... (#133)
(Edited)
#136. To: Peppa (#124)
No kidding? How fun.
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