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Title: CONSERVATIVES TO OBAMA: DON'T BRING SOCIALISM TO OREGON
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URL Source: http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news46.htm
Published: May 12, 2008
Author: Jim Kouri
Post Date: 2008-05-12 09:36:37 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 426
Comments: 41
Last week, Democrat Party presidential hopeful Barack Obama began his discussion of economic issues in the state of Oregon with the news media and workers at Verneir Software & Technology in Beaverton, Oregon. A key point Obama made was his high-tax platform that he claimed would help Oregon's economy. However, according to conservative strategist Mike Baker, this is the same old "tax and spend," big-government plan that's been the bedrock of American socialism for years. "Obama is a slick politician. He takes failed socialist programs and renames them and attempts to dupe people into believing this is cutting-edge economics. It's just Marxism with a new facade," claims Baker. During his speech in Beaverton, Obama proposed a laundry list of tax hikes, but he failed to mention that Oregonians already carry a huge tax burden. For example, Senator Obama called for higher income taxes on the wealthy (people making $100,000 per year and more), higher Social Security taxes, higher corporate taxes and what he called "an investment tax." "Liberals and Socialists will seldom use the word 'tax.' They prefer using euphemisms such as 'investment' or 'contribution' when they really mean mandatory taxation," said economist Warren Kelly of New York University. "No successful economic system has ever taxed itself into prosperity," said Professor Kelly. Part of Obama's plan for Oregon and other states is massive new domestic spending, and a healthcare plan that perhaps could be the next step to a full-scale, single-payer system. Is that what most Americans want, someone who will fulfill a Democratic policy wish list?" Yes, according to Sen. Obama and his followers. "Obama sees himself as a modern day Robin Hood," claims Sid Francis, a former head of the African-American police organization in New York City, The Guardians. "He's telling his followers that he's prepared to tax the supposed wealthiest Americans and turn the money over to his constituents,' said Det. Francis. "Tax Freedom Day is the day when Americans finally have earned enough money to pay off their total tax bill for the year. In 2008, Oregon tax payers had to work until April 16 to pay their total tax bill, ranking it the 32nd highest in the nation," said economist Warren Kelly. "If Obama's elected President and gets his way with a Democrat-run Senate and House of Representatives, Tax Freedom Day for Oregonians will quite possibly be May 15 of each year," said Kelly. Kelly claims that Sen. Obama supports nearly doubling the Capital Gains tax rate, which is major tax hike for many Oregon residents. CNBC's Maria Bartiromo told viewers that "He [Obama] wants to raise taxes. Right now, as you know, the cap gains tax is at 15%. He has yet to give us a specific number, how high he wants that number to go. He has said, and he told me today, that he won't go above 28%. So we are talking about the possibility of a doubling in the capital gains tax." (CNBC's "Closing Bell," 3/27/08) Obama rationalized his tax hike when he said that raising the Capital Gains tax wouldn't "Distort ... Economic Decision Making." He went on to say, "I think that we can have a capital gains rate that is higher than 15 percent. If it -- and if it, you know -- when I talk to people like Warren Buffet or others and I ask them, you know, what's -- how much of a difference is it going to be if it's 20 or 25 percent, they say, look, if it's within that range then it's not going to distort, I think, economic decision making." Advertisement "In 2005, the average Capital Gains and dividend income reported per tax return in Oregon was $4,837. On average, it accounted for 9.82 percent of adjusted gross income," said Mike Baker. "In the name of 'soaking the rich,' Obama is prepared to financially hurt working families who may come into large sums of cash for a variety of reasons," added Baker. 161,412 Oregon taxpayers with adjusted gross incomes of less than $50,000 reported capital gains and as a result were hit with a huge tax bill. In addition, according to economists, Obama's opposition to the so-called "gas tax holiday" ignores the needs of Oregon families. "He quite simply is opposed to any kind of tax relief while he ignores the needs of Oregon families," said Professor Kelly. During an appearance at a community college in the Philadelphia suburbs, Obama rejected a tax holiday as bad economic policy. "I've said I think John McCain's proposal for a three-month tax holiday is a bad idea," Obama said, warning consumers that any price cut would be short lived before costs spike back." As Of May 9, 2008, the average price for a gallon of regular unleaded-gasoline in Oregon was well over $3.70. Oregon uses a substantial amount of natural gas for electricity and home heating: Natural gas accounts for about one-third of Oregon's electricity generation. Obama is Wrong for Oregon's Small Businesses Political observers believe that small businesses are vital to Oregon's economy. According to a report by the Small Business Administration, in 2006 "Oregon had an estimated total of 350,500 small businesses. In fact, over 97 percent of Oregon's employer firms are small businesses. "Employer firms totaled 110,900 in 2006, up 3.8 percent from the previous year. Of this total, an estimated 97.8 percent, or 108,500 were small." "Quite simply, a President Barack Obama payroll tax hike would be a disaster of Oregon's small businesses," said Professor Kelly. Also, Obama supports lifting the earnings cap on payroll taxes. Obama told Democrats that he believes "lifting the cap is probably going to be the best option." "Lost in Obama's calculations is that many of the people who would be affected by eliminating the earnings cap are small-business owners who employ more than half the private-sector work force and create two of every three new jobs in this country," said Sid Francis, who owns a private security firm -- FLT Security Systems -- in New York. "Hearing Obama's plans for Oregon should scare workers and business owners in the other 49 states. He's a big-government socialist who is trying to pull a fast one on American voters," said Francis.
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#1. To: Ferret Mike, mirage (#0)
whatcha think?
Is THAT an example of the "eloquence" this guy is allegedly known for? BWAHAHAHA, oh my sides.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He is going to win Oregon by a wide margin. Bill is going to be here in Eugene today, and I will take note on the size and composition of the crowd. But Hillery drew a far smaller, older and mostly female crowd at South Eugene High's auditorium then either of Obama's huge, energetic rallies. When I canvass in this land of a sea of Obama lawn signs, I have found few Hillary supporters. Obama will take the Portland and Eugene metro areas by a wide margin, it will be tighter in more conservative Salem, except for the Hispanic community there which is bigger there then in Portland and Eugene greater metro. Portland is the only part of the state with a Black population of any note, my area is very very very White, but extremely liberal in a way I doubt you see anywhere in Texas. But remember Kerry had one of his largest ever rallies in Portland, and they pride themselves on being savvy about choosing the best pick to win in November. Obama is perceived as this person, and he is generating a great deal of excitement there. As for the conservative sentiment in this article, big deal. This is a very blue state, and that will only be a factor in the southwestern part of the state and Eastern Oregon. Both areas are demographically minor parts of the voting population. Portland's nickname is "Little Beirut," Eugene is a counter culture Mecca with the largest Lesbian population on the West Coast. It votes Democrat over Repug three to one, and the Clintons have their following, but the buzz is they had their day and Oregonians traditionally hate dynasties. We are a very independent minded state and there are still way way way more Ron Paul lawn signs up then anything for McCain. Cars with McCain stickers are yelled at and flipped off, McCain Lawn signs don't last very long. Ron Paul is respected in the very liberal activist circles I belong to or associate too. If you want to be a social pariah here in Eugene, get a McCain button. If he came to Eugene or Portland, he will have to do canned, small and highly controlled audiences or do what Cheney did and only go to tiny Junction City just north of Eugene, or hide in an auditorium in Beaverton near Portland. McCain is the anti-Christ here. The Bushes are the people with bull's eyes painted on their fat asses. Daddy and Mum Bushie for example rode the train south and were taken off north of Eugene in a field and whisked to a car to be taken to their plane at the Eugene Airport, they were terrified of having him arrive at the train station where you can throw a rock and hit several forest and social activist office buildings, (one of which my office is in.) The Democratic Party of Oregon is the party of our own personal Ron Paul, the late Senator Wayne Lyman Morse. The federal building they just built is the Morse federal courthouse, there is a statue of the Senator at the Lane County Court House and the Wayne Mores Ranch a large museum-park. Oregonians are very very anti-war, very very anti-Bush and McStain, and it is nerdy and terminally nostalgic to support Clinton and thus the demographics going for Hil are narrow and older people closer to the center politically then most Democrats. The Repugs here tend to be more liberal then the national average and Obama is popular with a wide segment of them. They will go Obama before going McStain. I saw one amusing weekend confrontation where a couple of bicyclists slammed their hands on a cadillac escalade SUV with McStain stickers compelling the young men to jump out to try to catch them. But they had been swallowed by the Friday mass of Neohippies, anarchists, and other Whiteaker neighborhood people at Sam Bond's Garage (bar)and they got vigorously chased back to the cadillac escalade which suffered a cracked window, broken taillight and other damage as the boys who had run back to it for their very lives retreated.
I forgot to mention too the voting is done solely by mail and thus the turnout high. A high turn out and the very obviously superior organization of the Oregon Obama campaign is going to bury Hillary this primary here. That campaign has already canvassed all Democrat and independent voters, and will be aggressively making sure all those who indicated they preferred Obama turn in ballots. The Obama campaign is rich with local talent, the relatively new Hillary campaign here started late, is playing catch-up, and the staff are all imported to make the offices work. They can't get the manpower to canvass as well as they would like, and canvassers for them have a high turnover because the Obama tide is discouraging to see when you are a Clinton worker going door to door.
I'm going to disagree with Ferret due to personal experience and I think things will be a lot closer than he thinks. I spend a lot of time down at Portland State, which is Oregon's largest University. OHSU, just up the street, is Portland's largest employer. The attitude at both is "Obama in the Primary, not in the General." The same attitude exists down in Silicon Valley among the working stiff Engineering set who are tired of Sacramento taxing them into oblivion. Oregon is in play for the general. There is a rabid anti-tax attitude in Oregon that Ferret is discounting. Think Measure 5 and successors, all of which pass by wide (10%+) margins. My spies in the local Democrat Party Office in Portland see this coming as well. All of THEM (meaning the Limousine Liberal Elite) are Hillary people. Based on that and people on the street in Washington and Clackamas Counties questioning Obama's inability to articulate a singular vision and wanting to put up a tariff wall (believe it or not they see this as a problem) they are giving McCain a second look. Oregon is in play. Its not as blue as Ferret claims it is due to the extreme Libertarian and anti-tax attitudes in the state. The extreme leftist attitudes in Oregon only exist in *parts* of Portland and Eugene. The rest of the state (with half the population) gets annoyed at their taxes going up. I'll agree with Ferret that there are no McCain signs anywhere. In fact, in Portland, there are Ron Paul signs everywhere still, particularly because Oregon hasn't had its primary vote yet. Oregon went for Reagan twice. Don't discount the Reagan Democrats. There are an awful lot of pissed off working stiffs in Oregon and people who are tired of the radicals who infest Portland. OR is a state where Gun Control doesn't play. It isn't as blue as anyone claims. Its more Libertarian than Socialist.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Filthy lying rotten despicable Establishment Communist brand...no wonder people like the Bushes and Clintons and possibly even McCain can get da peepull to buy into their Wing's swill.
Wrong, McHillObama and all of YOU are the 'antiChrist' here...(Interesting term coming from you, btw)
I think you're correct in this observation. Have you noticed the crime in the Bay Area getting worse?
This too.
I lived there for a decade and watched it get worse having been a victim of it and helping the police eliminate and deport a smuggling ring as a result of my testimony. I also held a batch of illegal Hispanics at gunpoint who were trying to break into my home for the police. How do I know they were illegal? I speak Spanish and I asked them. This was in one of the nicer parts of Silicon Valley as well. The commentary I'm getting is from people I work with down in the Valley as well as former co-workers down there I keep in touch with. California is pissed off once again. Expect another electoral "oops" there ala Gray Davis Recall shocker. The newspapers are also beginning to get a bit more nasty in their editorials and shockingly, the LA Times is lurching to what California would call "the right" in some of its editorials.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
One other item to note. A few years ago at the height of the gay marriage thing, a number of Multnomah County commissioners decided on their own to "re-interpret the law" and issue marriage licenses. None of the ringleaders were re-elected. Not a single one of them. Portland is in Multnomah County and the County Offices are in SE Portland as I recall. Even Portland is not as liberal as Ferret makes it out to be. He's not looking beyond his own personal radical crowd at the general population. Most people barely tolerate the radicals and would love to eliminate them. The nutcases are a big driver of people toward carry permits because they have no respect for anyone but themselves. As an aside, in Washington County, you see Obama stickers here on very nice cars, but not on old beat-up Hondas. You see Ron Paul stickers on those. Also keep in mind that Clark County WA, where Vancouver is, well, they went for Ron Paul in the primary up there. Paul won in Clark County, which is a bedroom community for Portland. They aren't likely to go for Obama up there in the General. That can be used as a proxy for the section of Portland that isn't on welfare. Another note - where I live, there is no such thing as an Obama Yard Sign in the neighborhood. Not a single one. This is one of the better areas too, mostly middle-class and retired folks here. Plenty of cars with stickers saying "Dirt Worshiper" still with Kerry stickers, but nothing for Obama. Zip, zero, nada. There are plenty of Ron Paul signs, though, including my own.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Thanks for the eye witness. That's good information to know.
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
You're welcome. On my block, there is a family that typically goes "all out" come election time. In 2004 and 2006, they had their entire house and yard covered with signs both at primary time and for the general. They don't go small either. We're talking the four-foot by six-foot kind of signs. Can you say Party HQ types? This year...nothing. Mine is the only 'national office' yard sign in the neighborhood and this is an area where you normally see a lot of that - all Democrat-oriented too. On all of the major roads, though, there are Ron Paul signs everywhere, but no "Obama" or "Hillary" signs. I think I've seen one Obama sign on the side of a major road westside and it was completely dwarfed by the Ron Paul sign in front of it. I'll have to go looking for more, but I just don't see it. In the city of Portland, you see the occasional sign, but unless you're in a neighborhood well known for being "effite" or "hip" there isn't a lot of anything except for the mayor's race and some of the judges up for election. Its an eerie non-yard-sign-advertising season in Portland for national office in yards. The TeeVee, on the other hand, is running ads 24x7, but since I don't watch TeeVee too often, I don't see those.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
I disagree. Portland has a huge population of young, well to do urban professionals who we are showing as being very receptive to Obama. I also was at the Multinomah courthouse when they were issuing marriage certificates watching the show, and there were scant few people protesting or harassing the crowd there in long lines for marriage certificates. Mayor Potter's daughter is a cop as he was, and a lesbian too, and the gay and lesbian community is large and vibrant in the Portland area, and domestic licenses are very popular a solution to the gay marriage controversy. When I was in Portland for a year and a half I did activism, worked at Free Geek building computers, socialized and the Red and Black coffeehouse coop, and usually if I wanted to take a break fro Saturday Market I would go get food or coffee at the Fox and Hound nearby which is a gay bar I was never bothered in once the regulars know I was heterosexual. I got to know Darcelle there, the cross dressing owner of Darcelle's which has cross dressing lip sync performers and is a local institution in Old Town, and I worked quite a bit at Portland Indymedia. The local activist/anarchist community is vibrant and strong, and the Portland Metro area is going to go Obama in a big way. I would bet money on it.
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=217126&Sn=WORL&IssueID=31053 That's 5% of the Portland Metro Area at most. What about the other 95%? I know all about the gay community in Portland; they're not the same as the San Francisco community and a lot of them don't like the in-your-face methods because it leads to blowback. Keep in mind, Oregon in general is a pretty calm and sedate place. Outside of the small (compared to the population) radical community, people express themselves sedately. If Multnomah County was as radical as you claim, then the folks who pushed the Gay Marriage licenses would still be in power. They aren't. They got tossed by a wide margin. What you're claiming does not jibe with reality. You're taking a microcosm and expanding it everywhere. Its still a microcosm. Reality is showing opposite results. Oregon is a very tolerant state until people start throwing things in others' faces. When that happens, the citizenry quietly removes the offending individuals at the ballot box.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
That's the primary. Its not the General. For the General, from what I'm seeing, Oregon is in play. The theme I'm picking up is "Obama in the primary, but not in the General" which is weird but pretty consistent.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
None the less, support for gay marriage remains strong in the Portland Metro area. You know as well as I do many other factors played into the loses you cite, and the replacements know better then to pick on Gays and Lesbians in that area. And as you know, the 'in your face' strongly anti-gay Oregon Citizen's Alliance (OCA) is history, Lon Mabon and Scott Lively are history, and anyone 'in your face' with homosexual hate get the yo heave ho very quickly too.
No. Support for *civil unions* remains strong. There is a difference. Put quite simply, you and I both agree that people who use "in your face" tactics tend to get bounced regardless of which side of the fence they sit on. Oregonians don't like being ordered around. Its just that simple.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Dream on, Oregon is going Democrat this election. I know a little something too. And as I mentioned, I am the one who detected and documented the fraud in the Nader petition campaign to get on the ballot and I was the one who blew the whistle on it. If you can access the first stories on that issue last election, you find my name, Michael McCarthy prominent in them, as I spoke at the press conference at the SEIU Union HQ where the investigation of the fraud was announced. I have my ear to the rail too, and I see Obama's support as strong and growing rapidly here. When he gets the nomination and comes to PDX in Autumn, he will also have a huge rally, probably also in Tom McCall Park by the Columbia River too.
Heh, I agree, and the way we are butting heads here is somewhat an indication of that very elemental truth about Oregonians. Eugene and Springfield is awash in Obama signs and bumper stickers. I was going to go heckle Bill today here wearing a blue dress over my usual black Carhartt jeans and Birkenstocks inviting him to stain it, but got vetoed by people who want a smooth, as little bitterness as possible transition to the main part of the election where Obama will indeed be the Democratic nominee and the next POTUS.
You're so close now...why screw it up ?
I have a prediction for you ferret. If Obama wins. You will come to hate him.
I never said Oregon was going one way or another. I said it was "in play" which is a far cry from saying its going for one party or another. Stop projecting and take a look at the facts. The reason Oregon is in play is because of the same reasons other states are going to be in play. Hillary supporters are up for grabs. That puts 30% of the Democrats in Oregon up for grabs and since the state is pretty much split evenly between Republicans and Democrats, that alone puts it into play. Where it ends up is anyone's guess right now, but the Hillary Democrats put it into play as opposed to being a lock. Kerry took Oregon with 51% of the vote in 2004. If you put 30% of the Democrats into the "up for grabs" category, it is anyone's guess as to where it actually goes in the General. Oregon is in play in 2008.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
I doubt it a great deal. I first voted for McGovern and still deeply admire the man. I voted for Jerry Brown, Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader, and many others who never made it to the nomination or were third party and never voted for Bill Clinton, held my nose to vote Carter and Dukakis, supported Kerry mostly as a strong anti-George Bush reaction, and Obama is the very very first Democrat I have supported this early and so enthusiastically. I have read his books and I looked into him for hours and hours of research before making my decision. He will make a very good, possibly great POTUS, and he definitely will not disappoint me. I am from a yellow dog Democratic family background in Connecticut, and my Dad who was a commercial pilot used to fly Sen. Tom Dodd and even the Kennedy brothers back and forth from D.C. to New England and back. I have a picture of me on Ted Kennedy's knee next to one of the Wyatt Oil Cessna 310 turbo prop planes Dad flew as a four year old, and my family back east is not happy with my being a member of the Pacific Green Party (I am temporarily Demo for the primary of course). I have been a political junkie my entire life, and I would definitely say I am much more a liberal in many ways then a conservative. How's that for an understatement. ;-)
LOLOL !! ROFLOLOLOLOLOL !!!!
I am very oriented to keep Oregon from going GOP, so you can say what you want, but I know Oregon is going Democrat, despite any wishes to the contrary. I am in no way shape or form interested in any other position concerning how Oregon will vote.
Mike, can we assume if you were Cuban.....
...I stil would not smoke the cigars.
Survey USA Oregon Poll conducted on April 4 - April 6 showed Obama leading Clinton by 10 % points – 52 % to 42 % among Oregon Democratic primary voters. Conducted on sample size of 597, the poll, with Margin of error: ± 4.1 %, indicated a big win for Obama. Survey USA Oregon Poll conducted on 28 April – 30 April showed Obama leading Clinton by 6 % points – 50 % to 44 % among Oregon Democratic primary voters. Conducted on sample size of 650, the poll, with Margin of error: ± 3.9 %, indicated a respectable victory for Obama. Rasmussen Reports conducted on 1 May showed Obama leading Clinton by 12 % points – 51 % to 39 % among Oregon Democratic primary voters. Conducted on sample size of 867, the poll, with Margin of error: ± 3 %, indicated a huge victory for Obama.
Send them to me please :)
We're looking at this from two different methods. I'm data driven. The data says "Oregon is in play". You're looking at things from an activist's standpoint, which is emotional and projects your desires onto the result. To avoid disappointment, check the data and let that guide you. I'll give you an example from the 2004 election. Ballot Measure 36 redefined marriage in the Oregon Constitution as being "between one man and one woman" - the only two counties it failed in were Multnomah and Benton counties. In the rest of the state, it passed by a 2/3 majority and ended up taking 57% of the vote statewide. So, the data bears out that the state as a whole does NOT support gay marriage. This battle has already been fought. It has already been lost by the gay marriage activists. There is not enough support to push it through statewide. This has already been shown to be the case.....in a state that went for Kerry, gay marriage fell flat on its face. Oregon is not a lock in this election. It is in play. You're more than welcome to work as hard as you want to keep Oregon from voting for McCain. In fact, I encourage you to follow what you think is right and I'll give a recommendation as to where to start. Probably the best place to work is on the Hillary supporters who are up for grabs in the general. Start now if you want to succeed. Those voters are in play for the general.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Mike - you're looking at polling data for the primary. Worry about the General. Obama already has a lock on the primary from what the polling says about Oregon. I'll say it again, probably for the third or fourth time on this thread: Obama will take Oregon in the primary. The general is for all the marbles. The general is where Oregon moves from lock to "in play" due to the Hillary Democrats. If you're this worked up over the primary and you can't see that someone you're trying to talk to keeps agreeing with you over what the primary results will be and you want to keep arguing the issue, you'll be useless for the general and be spending your time antagonizing people instead of winning them over. Now, repeat after mirage: "Obama will take Oregon in the primary. We both agree on that." Please do that at least three times so it sinks in :-)
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Marriage is a lightning rod word that causes people to think emotion over logic. We now have gay marriage in Oregon that does everything marriage does to protect rights and benefits which is why the issue came into play in the first place. True, the certificates say domestic partners, but the Legislature and public support this measure, and Oregon will not be getting rid of gay marriage without the nerve word anytime soon at all. The OCA did their puerile series of failed anti-homosexual ballot measures after initial success with one of them that make the grade ... before Oregonians came to know the OCA as the hate baiting opportunists they actually were and individually still are. The OCA destruction model fits your paradigm of Oregon well, so fret not. And fret not about gay marriage, that hurts nothing, and is good for human rights and individual freedom. I support it, always have, and I have a huge number of lesbian and gay friends locally whom I care about a great deal. I worked in the Basic Rights Oregon organization and worked long and hard against the OCA, and locally the Lane County OCA members grew to loathe the mere sight of me. I am very talented in street theater and was in their face constantly. I consider that a badge of honor to know that when I see one of the old local wankers who were OCA, their hands tremble slightly with controlled rage, and their eyes narrow with extreme loathing. ;-D http://www.basicrights.org/
Whatever you say. In 2004, they didn't pass that ballot measure. History is wrong because you said so.
Change doesn't always make things better. Often times, it makes things a heck of a lot worse.
Looking back Do you like Reagan?
I have deeply loathed RayGun since the 1960s. I have never liked the S.O.B.
I have deeply loathed RayGun since the 1960s. I have never liked the S.O.B. At least Reagan had the good moral sense to be opposed to baby murdering. Obama is lacking in that regard. Anyone that is for killing babies automatically has very low morals.
Reagan was not a moral man. He was selfish and had extremely low ethical standards. I don't care about his political posture on abortion, that wasn't because of a pro-life attitude, it was political expediency to allow him to be thought of as a leader. You are going to disagree, and that is fine. At least the S.O.B. is dead. I also know you are distorting Barack Obama;s view of abortion for reasons of political expediency and that is your prerogative. As I said, Bush is a murderous bastard who uses the Constitution as ass wipe. But he is allegedly anti-abortion. He had killed and maimed many many thousands of people and destroyed the homes of many others making them refugees. I would rather have a president like Barack Obama who can tell the difference between what is moral and legal in war, and what is not then a posturing bastard who does what the criminal Bush has done. I remain completely unmoved by your point of order. I find it at best a foolish posturing on abortion.
I don't think Bush is pro life. And I wish his mama wasn't. And Obama will not end the war. He even said there would still be troops in Iraq at the end of his term. He wants to attack Iran. He wants to fight Pakistan. I guess you support those upcoming wars. no?
The CHANGE he offers is a CHANGE in battlefield location. Afghanistan has done nothing to threaten America and we have no business there, except to save the CIAs opium fields, which now operate at full capacity.
#2. To: christine (#0)
"I think that we can have a capital gains rate that is higher than 15 percent. If it -- and if it, you know -- when I talk to people like Warren Buffet or others and I ask them, you know, what's -- how much of a difference is it going to be if it's 20 or 25 percent, they say, look, if it's within that range then it's not going to distort, I think, economic decision making."
Lord Acton
#3. To: christine (#1)
(Edited)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#4. To: christine (#1)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#5. To: christine, Ferret Mike (#1)
#6. To: christine, James Deffenbach, Peppa, Jethro Tull (#0)
"Obama is a slick politician. He takes failed socialist programs and renames them and attempts to dupe people into believing this is cutting-edge economics. It's just Marxism with a new facade," claims Baker.
#7. To: Ferret Mike (#3)
McCain is the anti-Christ here.
#8. To: mirage (#5)
The same attitude exists down in Silicon Valley among the working stiff Engineering set who are tired of Sacramento taxing them into oblivion.
#9. To: mirage (#5)
There are an awful lot of pissed off working stiffs in Oregon and people who are tired of the radicals who infest Portland.
#10. To: angle (#8)
(Edited)
Have you noticed the crime in the Bay Area getting worse?
#11. To: christine, Ferret Mike (#1)
(Edited)
#12. To: mirage (#11)
#13. To: angle (#12)
(Edited)
Thanks for the eye witness.
#14. To: mirage (#5)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#15. To: mirage, christine (#13)
However, the liberal bastion of Oregon in the northwestern US, is leaning 51pc for Obama, 39pc for the former first lady.
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#16. To: Ferret Mike (#14)
The local activist/anarchist community is vibrant and strong, and the Portland Metro area is going to go Obama in a big way. I would bet money on it.
#17. To: Ferret Mike, christine (#15)
However, the liberal bastion of Oregon in the northwestern US, is leaning 51pc for Obama, 39pc for the former first lady.
#18. To: mirage (#16)
(Edited)
"If Multnomah County was as radical as you claim, then the folks who pushed the Gay Marriage licenses would still be in power. They aren't. They got tossed by a wide margin."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#19. To: Ferret Mike (#18)
None the less, support for gay marriage remains strong in the Portland Metro area.
#20. To: mirage (#17)
"The theme I'm picking up is "Obama in the primary, but not in the General" which is weird but pretty consistent."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#21. To: mirage (#19)
(Edited)
"Oregonians don't like being ordered around. Its just that simple."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#22. To: Ferret Mike (#21)
I was going to go heckle Bill today here wearing a blue dress over my usual black Carhartt jeans and Birkenstocks inviting him to stain it, but got vetoed by people who want a smooth, as little bitterness as possible transition to the main part of the election where Obama will indeed be the Democratic nominee and the next POTUS.
#23. To: Ferret Mike (#20)
#24. To: Ferret Mike (#20)
Dream on, Oregon is going Democrat this election.
#25. To: Old Friend (#23)
"I have a prediction for you ferret. If Obama wins. You will come to hate him."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#26. To: Ferret Mike (#25)
I first voted for McGovern and still deeply admire the man. I voted for Jerry Brown, Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader, and many others who never made it to the nomination or were third party and never voted for Bill Clinton, held my nose to vote Carter and Dukakis, supported Kerry
#27. To: mirage (#24)
"Oregon is in play in 2008."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#28. To: Ferret Mike (#25)
#29. To: Jethro Tull (#28)
"Mike, can we assume if you were Cuban..... "
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#30. To: mirage (#24)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#31. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
#32. To: Ferret Mike (#27)
I am very oriented to keep Oregon from going GOP, so you can say what you want, but I know Oregon is going Democrat, despite any wishes to the contrary.
#33. To: Ferret Mike (#30)
#34. To: mirage (#32)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#35. To: Ferret Mike (#34)
We now have gay marriage in Oregon that does everything marriage does to protect rights and benefits which is why the issue came into play in the first place.
#36. To: Ferret Mike (#25)
#37. To: Old Friend (#36)
"Looking back Do you like Reagan?"
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#38. To: Ferret Mike (#37)
#39. To: Old Friend (#38)
"At least Reagan had the good moral sense to be opposed to baby murdering. Obama is lacking in that regard. Anyone that is for killing babies automatically has very low morals."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#40. To: Ferret Mike (#39)
As I said, Bush is a murderous bastard who uses the Constitution as ass wipe. But he is allegedly anti-abortion.
#41. To: Old Friend (#40)
And Obama will not end the war. He even said there would still be troops in Iraq at the end of his term. He wants to attack Iran. He wants to fight Pakistan. I guess you support those upcoming wars. no?
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