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Title: W Virginia keeps distance from Obama
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URL Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a50425a- ... 7658,s01=1.html?nclick_check=1
Published: May 11, 2008
Author: Andrew Ward
Post Date: 2008-05-12 09:59:34 by Peppa
Ping List: *Obama Reality Check* Subscribe to *Obama Reality Check*
Keywords: Obama
Views: 2549
Comments: 202
Like most people in Mingo County, West Virginia, Leonard Simpson is a lifelong Democrat. But given a choice between Barack Obama and John McCain in November, the 67-year-old retired coalminer would vote Republican. “I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife’s an atheist,” said Mr Simpson, drawing on a cigarette outside the fire station in Williamson, a coalmining town of 3,400 people surrounded by lush wooded hillsides. A landslide victory for Mrs Clinton in West Virginia will do little to improve her fading hopes of winning the Democratic nomination, because Mr Obama has an almost insurmountable lead in the overall race. But Tuesday’s contest is likely to reinforce Mrs Clinton’s argument that she would be the stronger opponent for Mr McCain in November, and raise fresh doubts about whether the US is ready to elect its first black president. Occupying a swathe of the Appalachian Mountains on the threshold between the Bible Belt and the Rust Belt, West Virginia is a swing state that voted twice for George W. Bush but backed Democrats in six of the eight prior presidential elections. No Democrat has been elected to the White House without carrying West Virginia since 1916, yet Mr Obama appears to have little chance of winning there in November. Recent opinion polls indicate that Mrs Clinton would narrowly beat Mr McCain in the state but Mr Obama would lose by nearly 20 percentage points. West Virginia is hostile territory for Mr Obama because it has few of the African-Americans and affluent, college-educated whites who provide his strongest support. The state has the lowest college graduation rate in the US, the second lowest median household income, and one of the highest proportions of white residents, at 96 per cent. A visit to Mingo County, a Democratic stronghold in the heart of the Appalachian coalfields, reveals the scale of Mr Obama’s challenge – not only in West Virginia but in white, working-class communities across the US. With a gun shop on its main street and churches dotted throughout the town, Williamson is the kind of community evoked by Mr Obama’s controversial comments last month about “bitter” small-town voters who “cling to guns or religion”. “If he is the nominee, the Democrats have no chance of winning West Virginia,” said Missy Endicott, a 40- year-old school administrator. “He doesn’t understand ordinary Americans.” Ms Endicott was among roughly 500 people who crammed into the Williamson Fire Department building on Friday to attend a rally by Bill Clinton, the former president. He told them his wife represented “people like you, in places like this”, and urged voters to turn out in record numbers on Tuesday to send a message to the “higher-type people” who were trying to force her out of the race. Local leaders said Mr Clinton was the most important visitor to Williamson since John F. Kennedy passed through during the 1960 election campaign. Mr Kennedy’s victory in the West Virginia primary that year was a crucial step towards proving his electability as the first Catholic president. Nearly five decades later, the state appears less willing to help Mr Obama break down barriers to the White House. None of the 22 Democrats interviewed by the Financial Times at the Clinton rally would commit themselves to voting for Mr Obama if he became the nominee, and half said they definitely would not. The depth of opposition is particularly striking considering that Mingo County is one of the most Democratic places in West Virginia, having cast about 85 per cent of its votes for the party in the 2006 midterm elections. If Mr Obama cannot win there in November, he has little chance of carrying the state. Most people questioned said they mistrusted Mr Obama because of doubts about his patriotism and “values”, stemming from his cosmopolitan background, his exotic name and the controversy surrounding “anti-American” sermons by Jeremiah Wright, his former pastor. Several people said they believed he was a Muslim – an unfounded rumour that has circulated on the internet for months – despite the contradiction with his 20-year membership of Mr Wright’s church in Chicago. Others mentioned his refusal to wear a Stars and Stripes badge and controversial remarks by his wife, Michelle, who described America as “mean” and implied that she had never been proud of the US until her husband ran for president. Conservative commentators have questioned Mr Obama’s patriotism for months and the issue is expected to be one of the Republicans’ main lines of attack if he wins the nomination. “The American people want a president who loves their country as much as they do,” said Whit Ayres, a Republican strategist. Obama supporters believe patriotism is being used as code to harness racist sentiment. Josh Fry, a 24-year-old ambulance driver from Williamson, insisted he was not racist but said he would feel more comfortable with Mr McCain, the 71-year-old Vietnam war hero, in the White House. “I want someone who is a full-blooded American as president,” he said.
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#98. To: James Deffenbach (#96)
You do have a point. Thing is though, they are the leaders in worthy causes. To learn, we much be well nourished.
Sounds like some good munchin's at your house.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Well, that is a good point too. Maybe I could FORCE myself to eat a little something if I knew that I could be of some help to the admirable goal of installing another commie in the White House.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. The famine was used as an effective tool under approval of the communist government in Ukraine to break the renaissance of Ukrainian culture. As they say, one thing leads to another. Weimar led to Hitler. And history repeats itself. That's why many here can see Obaba for who he is and what he represents: the ruination of America.
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
That's the unity spirit!!!!
Well, I wouldn't want to be known as someone who isn't even willing to, in the immortal words of Phil Collins, "do my bit for law and order." ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Hehehehe......
My first wife, the overeducated school marm, would scream at me when truly pissed: “You bastard would bring back slavery, if you could!” I never argued the point, which pissed her off even more. Women! On a totally different post: for those that did not minor in European history. The Weimar Republic was commonly called the Jew Republic in Europe.
The Weimar Republic was commonly called the Jew Republic in Europe. I barely survived American History, so I do appreciate that so many are willing to share their knowledge. I was good at geography though. That should count for something. :)
By fascists and Nazis. And I suspect only fascists and Nazis remember this factoid today. And, even if Jews had disproportionate influence, power, and wealth in the Weimar Republic, a liberal democracy is still infinitely preferable to the hell on earth the Nazis created.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I don't get the disconnect. One follows the other, ie, the second is a natural progression of the first. Weren't people suffering, starving and unable to live with the untenable economic forces which gave rise to the radical Nazism?
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
A lot of them thought in 1931-3 that the conditions were unbearable. 1943-7 taught them what it means for conditions to be really unbearable. And the Nazi takeover was far from inevitable. Had a corrupt ruling class not decided that giving them power was the easiest way out, it could have been avoided.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
They indeed worked hand and glove with their socialist buddy Stalin to train the German Army and and Air Force in Russia despite the Versailles treaty. The Jews of Russia had indeed formed the the German military for Hitler.
I will have to defer to the historians for that. There is a serious disagreement in that respect as I have followed the conversation here.
hey, scrapper, good to see you again.
They indeed worked hand and glove with their socialist buddy Stalin to train the German Army and and Air Force in Russia despite the Versailles treaty. The Jews of Russia had indeed formed the the German military for Hitler. Now that I was not aware of until now. I'd like to research that further, do you have a (best) source Cyni ?
No disagreement. robins ruffians never studied history unless it was written by the jews. Gen. von Seeckt of the Weimar was plotting WW2 within 90 days of cease fire of WW1. Robin and her ruffians knew all about the Weimar but never heard of von Seeckt. Shallow intellect for professed history experts.
The struggle must continue !! FOH... There are so many good ones that one has to pick and chose. The Jews of Russia were working hand and glove with the Jews of Germany in disregard of Versailles, in forming the new Germany Army which Hitler was to use. I supposed most knew of such, course Ari and robin expressed total disbelief. In fact the Germans had no paratroops, the Russians trained them, the ones used at Fort Emmanuel and later on Crete. I will see if I can find a good url...Dont look at Wikiup, jews control that too.
Fascinating. Thank you in advance...
robins ruffians never studied history unless it was written by the jews. Poor choice of words on my part. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you did not read from the approved shelf. I've been told that once a new book is written, the old one is obsolete. Facts and details as such are not relevant. I happen to disagree with that point of view, but then, one has to consider the agenda of the seller. Gen. von Seeckt of the Weimar was plotting WW2 within 90 days of cease fire of WW1. Robin and her ruffians knew all about the Weimar but never heard of von Seeckt. Shallow intellect for professed history experts. To their defense, perhaps such details did not make it to the new book? Just when you think you know all there is to know, you might begin to wonder, is this all I'm supposed to know? Were facts deleted to promote an agenda, or to hide one?
Sanitized and revised history books are the last place to look for anything that is untoward towards Jews and their mission.
I supposed most knew of such, course Ari and robin expressed total disbelief. In fact the Germans had no paratroops, the Russians trained them, the ones used at Fort Emmanuel and later on Crete. Duly noted. You know, it's been claimed that Zbig has evolved since his Grand Chessboard days... don't believe it.
Smells like socialism to me.
This in regard Fort Emanuel in Belgium.. "Earlier, Germany shocked the world at another fortress. The Battle for France began with the coup de main capture of the key and powerful world class Belgium fortification, Fort Eban Emanuel. The fort and defensive lynch pin to the northern flank, fell in a matter of hours. Later, in 1942, Germany demonstrated it's might again, at Sevastopol against the Soviets. At great cost, a mighty Soviet fortress was destroyed and captured by the von Manstein led German Crimean Army." The nucleus of the German force was originated and trained by the Russians.
That is a great link FOH. Bookmarked... thank you.
Smells like socialism to me. Sure does. "NeoCommies" and "NeoCons" got the same game going on today, nearly perfected it appears...
The nucleus of the German force was originated and trained by the Russians. Wow. Naivete'? Allies today, enemies tomorrow? This does not bode well with current foreign Army training strategy does it?
Yes. There was a bright spot in your link however. A time of atonement. Inescapable.
I say this tounge in cheek, but I suspect it has a lot of truth. Obama has the women's vote. With so much indoctrination by the media not to be a racist many the women will vote for Obama to prove they are not and half the women will vote for him because he is a good looking black that they fantasize having sex with. It is things like that rather than their true position on the issues that determine how most people vote.
The Soviets got everything that was due them. Hitler was much smarter and shrewder than that lout Stalin, however, they were brothers under the skin. Proof??? They started WWII in concert by invading Poland. Your history books never mention the cowardly communists waiting until the Poles were engaged in survival in the West when they invaded from the East. Vultures in for picking the carcass.
This in regard Fort Emanuel in Belgium.. "Earlier, Germany shocked the world at another fortress. The Battle for France began with the coup de main capture of the key and powerful world class Belgium fortification, Fort Eban Emanuel. The fort and defensive lynch pin to the northern flank, fell in a matter of hours. Later, in 1942, Germany demonstrated it's might again, at Sevastopol against the Soviets. At great cost, a mighty Soviet fortress was destroyed and captured by the von Manstein led German Crimean Army." The nucleus of the German force was originated and trained by the Russians. That explains a lot. +++ I was poking around and ran into this. Fact, fiction or other ?
More from "A secret aviation school"... Eight German two-place Heinkel HD 17 reconnaissance aircraft with the 450hp Napier Lions engine were brought to Lipetsk in the summer of 1926 with the aim to train observers. These airplanes were designed and built by the Heinkel firm based on a special Reichswehr order for the Lipetsk Aviation School. E. Heinkel writes in his memoirs: "Baaaaaah" ;)
It is things like that rather than their true position on the issues that determine how most people vote. I think many people would agree with you DW. One thing I'll toss into the mix though, is the RPRevolution has brought sanity back to the plate, and is something so many of our younger previously apathetic demoralized adults have drawn to. This is why his message is feared. I consider this election a demarcation point from the 'ways' of political seduction of the past to the reality of today. No matter who wins, the celebration won't last long.
Proof??? They started WWII in concert by invading Poland. Your history books never mention the cowardly communists waiting until the Poles were engaged in survival in the West when they invaded from the East. Vultures in for picking the carcass. FDR was a brother, too... "I do not believe in communism any more than you do, but there is nothing wrong with the communists in this country. Several of the best friends I have are Communists." Franklin D. Roosevelt
Sick sick sick. Nope, my history was taught all from the perspective of all good guys v all bad guys. Nothing about bankers, and brothers and so on.
One of my mentors was an aeronautical engineer with Messerschimidt. Born before the Weimar, lived thru it and Hitler. My history was neither sanitized nor revised by Jewish historians.
I'm thankful that you're here...TY
Obama is going to ensure 100 year war McCain wins. Way to go Obama supporters!
God is always good!
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest'Cept I got to thinkin' 'bout how bad I will feel when the Obummer supporters tell us how much money they have given him that I may not be able to eat a bite. Y'know, not being able to help out in a worthy cause and all.
#99. To: FOH (#94)
I'm having some of my crew over for lunch and I'm going to throw on chicken parts (1/2 bbq, 1/2 cajun), homemade baked beans with some old fashioned cole slaw...so get your butt over here !! ;)
Lord Acton
#100. To: Peppa, FOH (#98)
Thing is though, they are the leaders in worthy causes. To learn, we much be well nourished.
Lord Acton
#101. To: aristeides (#51)
And my relatives fled the Communists who took over the Ukraine, artificially instituted famine and murdered millions.
#102. To: James Deffenbach (#100)
Maybe I could FORCE myself to eat a little something if I knew that I could be of some help to the admirable goal of installing another commie in the White House.
#103. To: Peppa (#102)
That's the unity spirit!!!!
Lord Acton
#104. To: James Deffenbach (#103)
Well, I wouldn't want to be known as someone who isn't even willing to, in the immortal words of Phil Collins, "do my bit for law and order." ahaha.
#105. To: Jethro Tull (#24)
Shelby Steele explains their psychosis by saying that groveling allows them to feel vindicated for the past 400 (+/-) years of slavery and mistreatment blacks endured.
#106. To: karelian (#105)
On a totally different post: for those that did not minor in European history.
#107. To: karelian (#105)
The Weimar Republic was commonly called the Jew Republic in Europe.
#108. To: Peppa (#106)
Jews had disproportionate influence, power, and wealth in the Weimar Republic, a liberal democracy is still infinitely preferable to the hell on earth the Nazis created.
#109. To: angle (#108)
(Edited)
#110. To: karelian (#105)
(Edited)
The Weimar Republic was commonly called the Jew Republic in Europe.
#111. To: angle (#108)
Jews had disproportionate influence, power, and wealth in the Weimar Republic, a liberal democracy is still infinitely preferable to the hell on earth the Nazis created. I don't get the disconnect. One follows the other, ie, the second is a natural progression of the first. Weren't people suffering, starving and unable to live with the untenable economic forces which gave rise to the radical Nazism?
#112. To: scrapper2 (#75)
#113. To: Cynicom (#110)
The Weimar Republic was commonly called the Jew Republic in Europe.
#114. To: Peppa, angle (#111)
There is a serious disagreement in that respect as I have followed the conversation here.
#115. To: scrapper2 (#75)
I agree with you - "white guilt" has little to do, imo, with Obama's surging popularity. It's all about his promises of benefits to the rubes. It's also about the promise that he makes to tax "the rich" - ie. a family that earns $100,000 and more - and in so doing Obama works the envy wedge that has grown in recent years between the economic classes in our society, specifically between the lower and those above. Success and economic independence used to be values that were respected in America. Not anymore. Now it's equal outcomes and entitlements.
#116. To: FOH, Peppa, angle (#113)
#117. To: Cynicom (#116)
#118. To: Cynicom (#114)
No disagreement.
#119. To: Peppa (#118)
To their defense, perhaps such details did not make it to the new book? Just when you think you know all there is to know, you might begin to wonder, is this all I'm supposed to know? Were facts deleted to promote an agenda, or to hide one?
#120. To: Cynicom, Peppa, aristeides, robin (#116)
The Jews of Russia were working hand and glove with the Jews of Germany in disregard of Versailles, in forming the new Germany Army which Hitler was to use.
#121. To: Cynicom (#119)
Sanitized and revised history books are the last place to look for anything that is untoward towards Jews and their mission.
#122. To: FOH (#120)
"Everything is based on ideological cooperation".
#123. To: FOH, Peppa (#120)
Russia training German army...
#124. To: FOH (#120)
..."Everything is based on ideological cooperation".
#125. To: Cynicom, Peppa, aristeides, robin, christine, *Obama Reality Check* (#122)
"Everything is based on ideological cooperation".
#126. To: Cynicom (#123)
At great cost, a mighty Soviet fortress was destroyed and captured by the von Manstein led German Crimean Army."
#127. To: FOH (#125)
Sure does. "NeoCommies" and "NeoCons" got the same game going on today, nearly perfected it appears...
#128. To: Peppa (#0)
#129. To: Peppa, FOH (#126)
This does not bode well with current foreign Army training strategy does it?
#130. To: Cynicom (#123)
Russia training German army...
#131. To: Peppa, Cynicom (#124)
Thank Cyni !
When I returned to Warnemuende from Sweden, I was told that a certain visitor wished to see me. When I met him, he didn't introduce himself. Later, I found out that his name was Student. In spite of his civilian clothes, I felt from the outset that he was a military man. He made it a condition that our talk should be kept in confidence.
After our first conversation, it still was not clear whom he really represented. Only some time later I understood who he was and the real reason for his visit. "With the government's permission, the Reichswehr assisted in reorganizing the army of Soviet Russia. That country needed the technological achievements Germany had. Wilberg headed the Reichswehr Aviation Department. He made a trip to Russia to study the possibility of training pilots there using airplanes built secretly in Germany.
At the time, I could not understand why the visitor asked whether I would be able to make a landplane with a speed of 220 km/h and ceiling of 6000 meters, which could be employed as a short-range reconnaissance aircraft. I asked him what financial resources he had. The man smiled and said that he was ready to buy such an airplane immediately after it was built. After a bit of thought, I agreed. Thus, from 1923 on I became a participant in providing armaments for the German Army. To the surprise of the judges at the Nuremberg trial, the government itself financed this. The HD 17, my first airplane for the Reichswehr, had to be built in secrecy, playing cat-and-mouse with the Allied Commission on Aircraft Construction. The game was extremely dangerous for me. I could lose all or find myself under strict surveillance and constant supervision. I think fortune was on my side.
#132. To: DWornock (#128)
It is things like that rather than their true position on the issues that determine how most people vote.
#133. To: DWornock (#128)
I say this tounge in cheek, but I suspect it has a lot of truth. Obama has the women's vote. With so much indoctrination by the media not to be a racist many the women will vote for Obama to prove they are not and half the women will vote for him because he is a good looking black that they fantasize having sex with.
#134. To: Cynicom (#129)
The Soviets got everything that was due them. Hitler was much smarter and shrewder than that lout Stalin, however, they were brothers under the skin.
#135. To: Cynicom (#129)
Proof??? They started WWII in concert by invading Poland. Your history books never mention the cowardly communists waiting until the Poles were engaged in survival in the West when they invaded from the East. Vultures in for picking the carcass.
#136. To: FOH (#131)
To the surprise of the judges at the Nuremberg trial, the government itself financed this. The HD 17, my first airplane for the Reichswehr, had to be built in secrecy, playing cat-and-mouse with the Allied Commission on Aircraft Construction. The game was extremely dangerous for me. I could lose all or find myself under strict surveillance and constant supervision. I think fortune was on my side.
#137. To: Cynicom (#136)
One of my mentors was an aeronautical engineer with Messerschimidt. Born before the Weimar, lived thru it and Hitler. My history was neither sanitized nor revised by Jewish historians.
#138. To: Peppa, *Racist 2008* (#0)
No Democrat has been elected to the White House without carrying West Virginia since 1916, yet Mr Obama appears to have little chance of winning there in November. Recent opinion polls indicate that Mrs Clinton would narrowly beat Mr McCain in the state but Mr Obama would lose by nearly 20 percentage points.
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