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Title: W Virginia keeps distance from Obama
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URL Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a50425a- ... 7658,s01=1.html?nclick_check=1
Published: May 11, 2008
Author: Andrew Ward
Post Date: 2008-05-12 09:59:34 by Peppa
Ping List: *Obama Reality Check* Subscribe to *Obama Reality Check*
Keywords: Obama
Views: 2541
Comments: 202
Like most people in Mingo County, West Virginia, Leonard Simpson is a lifelong Democrat. But given a choice between Barack Obama and John McCain in November, the 67-year-old retired coalminer would vote Republican. “I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife’s an atheist,” said Mr Simpson, drawing on a cigarette outside the fire station in Williamson, a coalmining town of 3,400 people surrounded by lush wooded hillsides. A landslide victory for Mrs Clinton in West Virginia will do little to improve her fading hopes of winning the Democratic nomination, because Mr Obama has an almost insurmountable lead in the overall race. But Tuesday’s contest is likely to reinforce Mrs Clinton’s argument that she would be the stronger opponent for Mr McCain in November, and raise fresh doubts about whether the US is ready to elect its first black president. Occupying a swathe of the Appalachian Mountains on the threshold between the Bible Belt and the Rust Belt, West Virginia is a swing state that voted twice for George W. Bush but backed Democrats in six of the eight prior presidential elections. No Democrat has been elected to the White House without carrying West Virginia since 1916, yet Mr Obama appears to have little chance of winning there in November. Recent opinion polls indicate that Mrs Clinton would narrowly beat Mr McCain in the state but Mr Obama would lose by nearly 20 percentage points. West Virginia is hostile territory for Mr Obama because it has few of the African-Americans and affluent, college-educated whites who provide his strongest support. The state has the lowest college graduation rate in the US, the second lowest median household income, and one of the highest proportions of white residents, at 96 per cent. A visit to Mingo County, a Democratic stronghold in the heart of the Appalachian coalfields, reveals the scale of Mr Obama’s challenge – not only in West Virginia but in white, working-class communities across the US. With a gun shop on its main street and churches dotted throughout the town, Williamson is the kind of community evoked by Mr Obama’s controversial comments last month about “bitter” small-town voters who “cling to guns or religion”. “If he is the nominee, the Democrats have no chance of winning West Virginia,” said Missy Endicott, a 40- year-old school administrator. “He doesn’t understand ordinary Americans.” Ms Endicott was among roughly 500 people who crammed into the Williamson Fire Department building on Friday to attend a rally by Bill Clinton, the former president. He told them his wife represented “people like you, in places like this”, and urged voters to turn out in record numbers on Tuesday to send a message to the “higher-type people” who were trying to force her out of the race. Local leaders said Mr Clinton was the most important visitor to Williamson since John F. Kennedy passed through during the 1960 election campaign. Mr Kennedy’s victory in the West Virginia primary that year was a crucial step towards proving his electability as the first Catholic president. Nearly five decades later, the state appears less willing to help Mr Obama break down barriers to the White House. None of the 22 Democrats interviewed by the Financial Times at the Clinton rally would commit themselves to voting for Mr Obama if he became the nominee, and half said they definitely would not. The depth of opposition is particularly striking considering that Mingo County is one of the most Democratic places in West Virginia, having cast about 85 per cent of its votes for the party in the 2006 midterm elections. If Mr Obama cannot win there in November, he has little chance of carrying the state. Most people questioned said they mistrusted Mr Obama because of doubts about his patriotism and “values”, stemming from his cosmopolitan background, his exotic name and the controversy surrounding “anti-American” sermons by Jeremiah Wright, his former pastor. Several people said they believed he was a Muslim – an unfounded rumour that has circulated on the internet for months – despite the contradiction with his 20-year membership of Mr Wright’s church in Chicago. Others mentioned his refusal to wear a Stars and Stripes badge and controversial remarks by his wife, Michelle, who described America as “mean” and implied that she had never been proud of the US until her husband ran for president. Conservative commentators have questioned Mr Obama’s patriotism for months and the issue is expected to be one of the Republicans’ main lines of attack if he wins the nomination. “The American people want a president who loves their country as much as they do,” said Whit Ayres, a Republican strategist. Obama supporters believe patriotism is being used as code to harness racist sentiment. Josh Fry, a 24-year-old ambulance driver from Williamson, insisted he was not racist but said he would feel more comfortable with Mr McCain, the 71-year-old Vietnam war hero, in the White House. “I want someone who is a full-blooded American as president,” he said.
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#56. To: HOUNDDAWG (#53)
Hound... As demonstrated by our white guilters here that infest the 4um, you well know they cannot shed their obsession with skin color. For some reason they seem to have this compulsive drive to prove to the world and perhaps to themselves that they are not racist. When a person has an overpowering NEED to prove himself to others, that person needs help.
As they say in academia, Publish or Perish!
let overwrite, let override
True heart of the matter. There are two things in this political charade that are undeniable. One..One and only one candidate has had zero money problems from day one, JUST ONE. Two...If one is honest enough to accept number one as true, from whence comes the nearly quarter of a billion dollars ($250 million) that falls from heaven since the day Obummer was created by the controlling elite?
I don't have to prove anything. I just point to the last 7.5 years and say "No More!". When McCain promised to give me four more years of the same, that was it for me. Obama's race? Hell, against McCain I wouldn't care if Obama was even a human being. I'd vote for a squirrel over McCain.
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Two...If one is honest enough to accept number one as true, from whence comes the nearly quarter of a billion dollars ($250 million) that falls from heaven since the day Obummer was created by the controlling elite? Really gets to you that the small donors stepped forward and supported Obama. And it really gets to you that people are sick of the R's and nobody sends money as a result. So what do you do in these circumstances? Why, come up with a wild conspiracy theory to explain why the world isn't he way you want it to be.
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True heart of the matter. Right down to some unnamed supporters. There are two things in this political charade that are undeniable. One..One and only one candidate has had zero money problems from day one, JUST ONE. Two...If one is honest enough to accept number one as true, from whence comes the nearly quarter of a billion dollars ($250 million) that falls from heaven since the day Obummer was created by the controlling elite? You mean? It didn't come from penny drives from the children? (Oh yeah, I forgot they are only 'appendages'... ) Well, okay then, you mean? all that could not have come from regular type people? That is a lot of cash.. You make an amazing point. It is odd that the other two candidates have had money problems. You know what? It's starting to look like Obama could be the establishments choice. Heyyyyy wait a minute.. I thought we were looking for change.
Hound... As demonstrated by our white guilters here that infest the 4um, you well know they cannot shed their obsession with skin color. For some reason they seem to have this compulsive drive to prove to the world and perhaps to themselves that they are not racist. When a person has an overpowering NEED to prove himself to others, that person needs help Well, yeah, but, I've lived all over and it just seems to me that those folks are a severe minority and they generally stick out like a turd on a wedding cake. The demographic that concerns me consists of those who vote themselves ever increasing shares of the treasury's monetized debt. (and, they don't waste time debating high minded ideals on the internet. They're just waiting silently and patiently to enter the polls and reward the winner of the seniors' welfare lottery....and, they're a surprisingly color blind group, too.) The US' number one business is now senior care, and whoever wishes to win must above all else promise the biggest increase in social security and Medicare bennies. We may reach the absurd point where a candidate is promising each voter a million frauds ($) worth of life extending stem cells only to be outbid by another who promises that and 100% property, capital gains and income tax relief for America's tyrant class of voters. Despite all of the burning issues we discuss here, this election will be won by the candidate who can convincingly use the phrase "social security trust fund" and sound as if he/she believes that it actually exists as a self sustaining, interest bearing "generational compact."
Any one of those three will represent the establishment--no matter which one of those scumbags "win" the rest of us lose.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. As long as you're going to use goofy and unsupported theories, why don't you tell them that Obama hypnotized helpless old ladies into giving their life savings? That will kill two birds with one stone and it's a lot less nutty than the other stuff that is getting tossed out. Tell them that Obama did it with subliminal messages from the TV.
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I totally agree. But that Obama is so flush with cash, it is most certainly to ensure the status quo.
Our resident white guilters seem not to grasp that Obummer was created and IS expendable. That simple truth eludes them. That being said, resident democrat partisan white guilters have joined guilters from the pub party, such as the Nixons and Eisenhowers, in sending in their maximum donations. Perhaps we should have an Obama fund drive here on 4um, surely it would be a big winner.
That will kill two birds with one stone and it's a lot less nutty than the other stuff that is getting tossed out. Tell them that Obama did it with subliminal messages from the TV. Man, you are a little boiling pot aren't you.... LOL!! Okay, I'll get right on that strategy.. anything for you!
That simple truth eludes them. That being said, resident democrat partisan white guilters have joined guilters from the pub party, such as the Nixons and Eisenhowers, in sending in their maximum donations. They don't do simple, or truth. So...you know.. mize well pull in that cast. Now maybe if they read real slow, it might sink in. I doubt they'll have the intellectual honesty to weigh in agreement, but, it would be progress none the less. Perhaps we should have an Obama fund drive here on 4um, surely it would be a big winner. Oooh!!! How fun! Whose money can I donate? I'm practicing my progressive side today!
Oooh!!! How fun! Whose money can I donate? I'm practicing my progressive side today! It has been mentioned that our resident white guilters that formed a better forum are indeed contemplating a fund drive to support their savior, Obummer. It should be a huge success as they did not exactly over extend themselves (cough cough) in financial support for Ron Paul. As an example, in the race in Pa. the high powered law firms stepped up to the plate and gave the maximum to Obummer. Anything less from the new forum would be an embarrassment.
It should be a huge success as they did not exactly over extend themselves (cough cough) in financial support for Ron Paul. As an example, in the race in Pa. the high powered law firms stepped up to the plate and gave the maximum to Obummer. Anything less from the new forum would be an embarrassment. Absolutely!!! Lawyers and big Pharma absolutely adore this guy. The good part is that are they salt of the earth, only looking out for the average schmoe, and as such, their donations are truly for the greater good. I say, give till it hurts! It's just a starting point!
I wish the white guilters here would post their contributions to Obummer. It might relieve some of their anxiety. It would prove they are not racists. I will wait here til Ping, ghost, Ari, robin, vast and the others post their donations, showing us they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
Only bitter people could possibly object to paying a Global Tax.
It would prove they are not racists. I will wait here til Ping, ghost, Ari, robin, vast and the others post their donations, showing us they are willing to put their money where their mouth is. I think they should post it too. Teach us a thing or two. I'll drag up a lawnchair and wait with you.
You nailed it RP. It's taken us so long to catch on. You can tax people out of poverty. The same way you can bomb people into freedom.
We may reach the absurd point where a candidate is promising each voter a million frauds ($) worth of life extending stem cells only to be outbid by another who promises that and 100% property, capital gains and income tax relief for America's tyrant class of voters. Despite all of the burning issues we discuss here, this election will be won by the candidate who can convincingly use the phrase "social security trust fund" and sound as if he/she believes that it actually exists as a self sustaining, interest bearing "generational compact." Well said, I agree with you - "white guilt" has little to do, imo, with Obama's surging popularity. It's all about his promises of benefits to the rubes. It's also about the promise that he makes to tax "the rich" - ie. a family that earns $100,000 and more - and in so doing Obama works the envy wedge that has grown in recent years between the economic classes in our society, specifically between the lower and those above. Success and economic independence used to be values that were respected in America. Not anymore. Now it's equal outcomes and entitlements. "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage." - Alexander Tyler
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
I'll drag up a lawnchair and wait with you. I will wait too.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Please let dots know about your flying pig. He has insinuated that 'others' make goofy statements, and I don't want to be responsible for that one. But, I would love the updates anyway!!!
Welcome JD. I may have to bring in some supplies. It's already taking longer than it should.. :)
Despite this well known truism it was considered impolite to mention it in the company of socialists, and was never to be seen in campaign mailers or letters to the editor of AARP Magazine. So, they all knew that sooner or later the well would go dry. For many years I've heard seniors say that they expect it but they don't care what happens to America or their own children/grandchildren as long as it's after they're dead and gone! So, those who bought the false promises of the Roosevelt Administration and basked in the pandering of irresponsible politicians ever since are welcome to try and survive an uncertain future with the rest of us. (If they're willing to babysit we can let them gnaw the bones and lick the pan after we fry some batwings) After all, we grew the seed corn and they ate it, so, what further obligation could we possibly have to them when the fraud ($) is most useful, bundled and burned as fuel in fireplaces?
I may have to bring in some supplies. It's already taking longer than it should.. :) Are you going to bring the sammiches? If you do I like ham and cheese.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. That's the type of "hope" that causes the Stalinist witch to believe "change" is coming !! What great theater...
Are you going to bring the sammiches? If you do I like ham and cheese. Anything off the Quizno's fi-dolla menu works for me...=)
Yeah, sounds ok. We don't have one of those where I live but I have eaten in them before.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I have to admit I'm in a subway sandwich situation right now. I have a Jimmy Johns (great, fast sandwiches at a decent price - THEY DELIVER for fitty cents) close by, a Subway not far off (their fi-dolla promotion was just made a permanent fi-dolla footlong value menu) and not much further away a Quiznos (which countered Subway's fi-dolla deal and now might make IT permanent in light of Subway's new campaign)... I like mine grilled btw. ;)
Okie doke. Duly noted. I'll whip up a batch of cornbread and fried okra too. Sweet Tea.
That's the type of "hope" that causes the Stalinist witch to believe "change" is coming !! What great theater... Hehehe.. it is, it is! Votes will not be cast until 6/3. Super D's can change their mind on the convention floor. If all those bitter people show up from other states, it's possible they might find out that Obie has zero chance of winning the general. They'll have to decide if they are racists or sexists, and which one has a better chance to hold the flock and make it look believable on election day.
Okay. I like their Italian sammie.. Noted.
Hehehe.. it is, it is! Votes will not be cast until 6/3. Super D's can change their mind on the convention floor. If all those bitter people show up from other states, it's possible they might find out that Obie has zero chance of winning the general. They'll have to decide if they are racists or sexists, and which one has a better chance to hold the flock and make it look believable on election day. It's hard to believe but once again the CFR has found a way...they've outdone themselves this time. Without the CFR's neocomies they could NEVER push their neocons...
Hot peppas, peppa jack, toasted, vinegar/oil/salt/peppa...heheheh
That is a super deal! We bitter folks have to get as much as we can with change. I like mine grilled btw. ;) Me too. You know, I may just have to roll out the BBQ and we'll just throw on some mystery meat and beans.
That only applies to certain sandwiches and doesn't include mushrooms on any sandwich. The Subway sandwich I like isn't included in that promotion.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. LOL!! You got it!
I'm having some of my crew over for lunch and I'm going to throw on chicken parts (1/2 bbq, 1/2 cajun), homemade baked beans with some old fashioned cole slaw...so get your butt over here !! ;) Be back when I get back...
Damn your luck !!! lolol There are 8 to choose from, surely ONE would tickle your fancy !? Here's my local sandwich eatery quality rating, assuming the fi-dolla footlong deals: #1 JJs #2 Quiznos #3 Subway Gotta run, and NOT for office...
Yep. That is good with my ham and cheese. 'Cept I got to thinkin' 'bout how bad I will feel when the Obummer supporters tell us how much money they have given him that I may not be able to eat a bite. Y'know, not being able to help out in a worthy cause and all.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Comments (97 - 202) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestOnce we shed our concerns about personalities, religious affiliations or skin color
#57. To: Jethro Tull (#43)
What is your continued fascination for the boring and obscure?
#58. To: Tauzero, Peppa, angle, Jethro tull (#55)
It's where the money is.
#59. To: Cynicom (#56)
(Edited)
When a person has an overpowering NEED to prove himself to others, that person needs help.
#60. To: Cynicom (#58)
One..One and only one candidate has had zero money problems from day one, JUST ONE.
#61. To: Cynicom (#58)
It's where the money is.
#62. To: Cynicom (#56)
Once we shed our concerns about personalities, religious affiliations or skin color
#63. To: Peppa (#61)
You know what? It's starting to look like Obama could be the establishments choice. Heyyyyy wait a minute.. I thought we were looking for change.
Lord Acton
#64. To: Peppa (#61)
#65. To: James Deffenbach (#63)
Any one of those three will represent the establishment--no matter which one of those scumbags "win" the rest of us lose.
#66. To: Peppa (#61)
You know what? It's starting to look like Obama could be the establishments choice. Heyyyyy wait a minute.. I thought we were looking for change.
#67. To: ... (#64)
As long as you're going to use goofy and unsupported theories, why don't you tell them that Obama hypnotized helpless old ladies into giving their life savings?
#68. To: Cynicom (#66)
Our resident white guilters seem not to grasp that Obummer was created and IS expendable.
#69. To: Peppa (#68)
Perhaps we should have an Obama fund drive here on 4um, surely it would be a big winner.
#70. To: Cynicom (#69)
(Edited)
It has been mentioned that our resident white guilters that formed a better forum are indeed contemplating a fund drive to support their savior, Obummer.
#71. To: Peppa (#70)
#72. To: Peppa (#4)
A few more tornadoes hitting crackers, and all the talk of a Global Tax will probably not be popular by the convention. Imagine.. all those bitter folks in one place.
#73. To: Cynicom (#71)
I wish the white guilters here would post their contributions to Obummer. It might relieve some of their anxiety.
#74. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#72)
Only bitter people could possibly object to paying a Global Tax.
#75. To: HOUNDDAWG (#62)
The demographic that concerns me consists of those who vote themselves ever increasing shares of the treasury's monetized debt. (and, they don't waste time debating high minded ideals on the internet. They're just waiting silently and patiently to enter the polls and reward the winner of the seniors' welfare lottery....and, they're a surprisingly color blind group, too.)...
#76. To: Peppa (#38)
#77. To: Peppa, Cynicom (#73)
I think they should post it too. Teach us a thing or two.
Lord Acton
#78. To: ghostdogtxn (#76)
I'll let you know from the back of my flying pig.
#79. To: James Deffenbach (#77)
I will wait too.
#80. To: scrapper2 (#75)
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage." - Alexander Tyler
#81. To: Peppa (#79)
Welcome JD.
Lord Acton
#82. To: Peppa (#0)
A landslide victory for Mrs Clinton in West Virginia will do little to improve her fading hopes of winning the Democratic nomination, because Mr Obama has an almost insurmountable lead in the overall race.
#83. To: James Deffenbach, Peppa (#81)
(Edited)
I may have to bring in some supplies. It's already taking longer than it should.. :)
#84. To: FOH (#83)
Anything off the Quizno's fi-dolla menu works for me...=)
Lord Acton
#85. To: James Deffenbach, Peppa (#84)
Yeah, sounds ok. We don't have one of those where I live but I have eaten in them before.
#86. To: James Deffenbach (#81)
Are you going to bring the sammiches? If you do I like ham and cheese.
#87. To: FOH (#82)
A landslide victory for Mrs Clinton in West Virginia will do little to improve her fading hopes of winning the Democratic nomination, because Mr Obama has an almost insurmountable lead in the overall race.
#88. To: FOH (#83)
Anything off the Quizno's fi-dolla menu works for me...=)
#89. To: Peppa (#87)
What great theater...
#90. To: Peppa (#88)
I like their Italian sammie..
#91. To: FOH (#85)
and not much further away a Quiznos (which countered Subway's fi-dolla deal and now might make IT permanent in light of Subway's new campaign)...
#92. To: FOH (#85)
Subway not far off (their fi-dolla promotion was just made a permanent fi-dolla footlong value menu)
Lord Acton
#93. To: FOH (#90)
Hot peppas, peppa jack, toasted, vinegar/oil/salt/peppa...heheheh
#94. To: Peppa (#91)
You know, I may just have to roll out the BBQ and we'll just throw on some mystery meat and beans.
#95. To: James Deffenbach (#92)
That only applies to certain sandwiches and doesn't include mushrooms on any sandwich. The Subway sandwich I like isn't included in that promotion.
#96. To: Peppa (#86)
Sweet Tea.
Lord Acton
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