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Dead Constitution
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Title: The Conservative Movement: From Failure to Threat
Source: Rockwell
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 19, 2008
Author: Paul Craig Roberts
Post Date: 2008-05-19 09:39:44 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 1922
Comments: 154

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 142.

#1. To: ghostdogtxn, christine, Jethro Tull, FOH, Critter, RickyJ. Original Intent (#0)

Please note that this cluster of traitorous Constitution-gutters and tyrant- makers is exclusive to the GOP. Some would have us believe that there is no significant difference between having a President Obama and a President McCain. Facts (which, as PRC states, conservative emotion now blots out) prove otherwise.

Are 4umers who find acceptable the continuation of these brownshirts in power all that different from the brownshirts themselves?

Arator  posted on  2008-05-19   9:48:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Some would have us believe that there is no significant difference between having a President Obama and a President McCain.

There is a difference, in asmuch as there's a big difference between having a Marxist and having a Fascist in power.

I don't say Marxist or Fascist just to call people names either. McCain's advocacy of endless war could have come from the mouth of Mussolini, and Obama's proposal of a global welfare tax sounds like something out of the Marx/Engels Communist Manifesto.

Is there a difference between a Marxist and a Fascist? Definitely. Does it mean that I'll be voting for one or the other? Definitely not.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-19   17:03:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Is there a difference between a Marxist and a Fascist? Definitely. Does it mean that I'll be voting for one or the other? Definitely not.

Accepting your straw man, let me raise you one so that we have two.

The scenario is this. You have preteen kids and it's very likely that their future environment is going to be either communism or fascism. These are the only choices, nothing else is possible because nothing else would be considered by 98% of your fellow citizens but you do have the ability to peacefully select one of the two and help tip the balance to favor one or the other.

Knowing that your kids future depends on it, are you going to do nothing and express superior indifference because you believe that it doesn't matter which camp wins because, you say, one is the mirror image of the other?

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-19   22:05:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

How is pointing out the fascistic side of McCain and the Marxist side of Obama a strawman?

And you haven't told us why, when given a choice between a Marxist and a Fascist, we have a duty to vote for the Marxist.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-20   11:26:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

That's strawmanning in action. Obama is not a Marxist and McCain is not a fascist. Unless you have some evidence that Obama is into class warfare, the dictatorship of the proletariat, the banning of religion, the expropriation of all means of production and, if he is to take a Leninist enhancement, the imposition of revolutionary terror.

Now, I'm giving it to you to demonstrate why McCain is not a fascist and thus burn both of your poorly-built straw men.

By the way, since you claim that you dislike both Marxism and fascism, can you tell me why you do? I am curious and I hope that you don't use these words just because they carry some bad connotations without having some clear ideas of what they are about.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-20   11:43:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Taking away Peter's money to pay Paul is the core of Marxist social and economic policy. Obama takes this to a new level. Not only does he want higher taxes so that Americans with money can pay for American welfare recipients, but he supports a Global Tax so that we can have the pleasure of paying for third world dregs too. Obama's internationalism - the very idea of a global tax and global authority in place of national sovereignty is also Marxist to the bone.

And when it comes to Class Warfare, perhaps you've noticed that among modern Marxists, race has taken the place of class, with blacks and other minorities taking the place of "the proletariat" and whites taking the place of the "bourgeoisie". Every New Left and neo-Marxist supports Afrocentrism and "sticking it to whitey," as do the people that Obama surrounds himself with.

As for McCain, what other than fascism can describe a worldview that relishes permanent wars and occupations in the name of "national greatness" and "national honor?" McCain seems to want war for its own sake. How are his views on US empire any different than Mussolini's stupid propaganda about reconquering the whole Mediterranean and resurrecting the Roman Empire? McCain also supports expanding the powers of the police state ("Patriot Act") and continuing the crony partnership between megacorporations and the government, his domestic agenda rounds off his fascist credentials.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-20   11:56:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Taking away Peter's money to pay Paul is the core of Marxist social and economic policy.

Wrong! It is not.

The brief and vulgarized description of the Marxist economic policy is: solving all problems by 'expropriating the expropriators' and transferring ownership of all means of production to the society at large with the manager being the socialist state during the socialist phase (communism to follow). Socialism of the Marxist kind is not about taking for Peter to pay Paul because there's nothing that Peter still has that Paul would want. Both Peter and Paul now work for a state-owned and controlled entity. And, by the way, there are no welfare queens. Work is mandatory, avoiding work is criminal and those at the top are not wealthy in the way of Bill Gates. What they hold is not money or assets but power. The only way to hold power is to constantly and frequently demonstrate loyalty to the state or all can collapse in an instant because when they lose power they are left with nothing.

The 'taking from Peter to pay Paul' thing is not Marxism. It's 'welfare state capitalism'. If you want to call Obama a welfare state capitalist, you'd probably be close to the mark. Marxist, he is not.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-05-20   12:26:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

A workers paradise!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-20   12:29:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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