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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: The Conservative Movement: From Failure to Threat
Source: Rockwell
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 19, 2008
Author: Paul Craig Roberts
Post Date: 2008-05-19 09:39:44 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 1974
Comments: 154

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 86.

#1. To: ghostdogtxn, christine, Jethro Tull, FOH, Critter, RickyJ. Original Intent (#0)

Please note that this cluster of traitorous Constitution-gutters and tyrant- makers is exclusive to the GOP. Some would have us believe that there is no significant difference between having a President Obama and a President McCain. Facts (which, as PRC states, conservative emotion now blots out) prove otherwise.

Are 4umers who find acceptable the continuation of these brownshirts in power all that different from the brownshirts themselves?

Arator  posted on  2008-05-19   9:48:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Are 4umers who find acceptable the continuation of these brownshirts in power all that different from the brownshirts themselves?

I see....early in my political odyssey I considered myself a 'conservative' in the mold of Buahanan, Sobran, Sam Francis, Charlie Reese and others who don't come immediately to mind. Movements and Parties, especially when they espouse an American First position, become infiltrated and or vilified. Conservatives have their alter ego neoconservatives, Rs have their Country Club corporatists, and the Ds their leftists, PC-laden EnviroNazies.

Nobody in this article resembles an American Firster, the 1st criterion of what I consider a conservative. Further, nobody on this forum would confuse the names in this article with conservatives.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-19   10:05:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Nothing in common between neoconservative brownshirts and the people on this forum?

Let's wait and see how many come out in support of McCain before Election Day. (I expect quite a few to do so.)

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-19   10:19:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Let's wait and see how many come out in support of McCain before Election Day. (I expect quite a few to do so.)

Let me bring you back to your last political prognostication; Ron Paul would choose Mike Gravel as his VP.

ari...you're a lightweight.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-19   10:57:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Let me bring you back to your last political prognostication; Ron Paul would choose Mike Gravel as his VP.

You know, I don't remember predicting that. I remember reporting that Mike Gravel indicated in a radio interview that he was open to the possibility. I remember expressing the opinion that such a ticket would be a good thing. I suppose it's possible I said Ron Paul might choose Gravel, although I don't remember going that far.

But, if I predicted that he would, it has entirely slipped my memory. If you can show me that I did, I will of course admit that I was wrong.

Meanwhile, Cynicom has yet to admit that he was wrong in predicting that Obama would be Hillary's vice presidential running mate. I believe other people posting here have predicted the same thing.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-19   11:44:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Meanwhile, Cynicom has yet to admit that he was wrong in predicting that Obama would be Hillary's vice presidential running mate. I believe other people posting here have predicted the same thing

I don't concede him the nomination (Wallace, Bobby Kennedy) until the final bell - never mind whom he chooses as VP.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-19   13:16:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I don't concede him the nomination (Wallace, Bobby Kennedy) until the final bell

More assassination talk?

Let's grant your wish, and suppose assassination prevents Obama from getting the presidential nomination. Can you conceive of him getting the VP nomination under those circumstances?

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-19   14:02:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

More assassination talk?

what is this, ari? JT or anyone else here is not permitted to mention anything that happened in history or speculate that a similar event could occur without your insinuations that it's somehow a threat? this is an attempt by you to harm this forum and its posters, imo. am i wrong in assuming that this is your intent?

christine  posted on  2008-05-19   14:19:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

what is this, ari? JT or anyone else here is not permitted to mention anything that happened in history or speculate that a similar event could occur without your insinuations that it's somehow a threat? this is an attempt by you to harm this forum and its posters, imo. am i wrong in assuming that this is your intent?

Now Mr. ari, if memory serves you're an OXFORD educated attorney, and at the very least the beneficiary of a frightfully pricey education.

Your incessant reliance on tactics that would be actionable in court and in state bar proceedings is clearly indicative of your frustration with your own impotence.

You may not know this but, CarolOnTheWeb once wrote "I wish (George HW BUSH) was dead!" and was immediately visited by the secret service.

When she answered the door and was asked about her comment she replied, "Yes, I wrote it, do you want to arrest me now?" or words to that effect while extending her arms for cuffing.

After several failed attempts to intimidate this feisty gal, the secret service said "We just want to make sure that you aren't a threat to the president!" and left with no apology or repudiation from her.

JT sometimes employs a tactic that keeps the SPLC and their dutiful DOJ friendlies in states of flux. He reminds them that their plans to shove their Amerika down our throats can be derailed and despite the climate of fear they've wrought upon the nation there are and will always be some people who aren't afraid to remind the enemy that their big plans are not a given.

One has to admire Hal Turner on this point. he has his enemies foaming at the mouth, and he can actually take credit for turning the senate around on a "death to America" immigration vote by publishing senators' home addresses and phone numbers!

I didn't hear anyone of your political ilk complain when a national news reporter (on Geraldo's show) stood in front of Thom Metzger's home and showed the best place for a sniper to get a clean shot!

So, you can knock that shit off anytime now.

And, if you cannot satisfactorily counter any of the points that are so upsetting to you with stand up debate, then would you please concede the inherent flaws in your position and behave like a world class lawyer instead of an anonymous, dirty trickster hack?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-19   16:10:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If the law allows JT to say what he does, how can my words about what he says be actionable?

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-19   16:13:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If the law allows JT to say what he does, how can my words about what he says be actionable?

Your shabby tactics would soon prove tiresome to any trial judge, and that's a slam dunk contempt citation.

If you threatened (or raised the spectre of) criminal charges to gain advantage in a civil action that is a breach of the ABA canon of ethics! (which are mirrored in many state ethics codes)

Now, if a lawyers' professional ethics are an obstacle or simply of no use in heated and protracted political discussions, then will you start by conceding that point?

Or, you can adhere to the rules of professional conduct and present cogent facts to support your position, if you have any.

It's my position that I could argue your case better than you've been doing, without "passion or prejudice". But, then again I'm from the home of Thomas Jefferson, and you're influences are no doubt the likes of Cecil Rhodes. It's becoming more apparent each passing moment that an Oxford education leaves you somewhat under-gunned against me or JT in an honest to by God stand up political debate.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-19   16:28:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I presented cogent facts in #37. I am threatening no legal action.

You're the one who appears to be suggesting such a thing.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-19   16:32:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I presented cogent facts in #37. I am threatening no legal action.

You're the one who appears to be suggesting such a thing.

I believe I was clear in my hypothetical, "if you were in court".

I didn't suggest that you were threatening to file charges here.

You're very slippery here, but we both know that no judicial officer would permit that, and it's still no substitute for intelligent debate including followups to JT's frustrating counters to your "cogent facts in #37."

In short you seem to want to corner JT on one point: He has alluded to some secret wish that an assassin's bullet would change the course of history.

My point is, If so, then so what? As Carol amply demonstrated it's not against the law to openly wish that terrible misfortune befall some unpopular and/or treasonous politico who wants to run our lives and steer the ship of state right up onto the rocks.

I for one hope that someday Bill Clinton ODs on Viagra and he has to pole vault to the nearest ER to seek emergency medical assistance and it's printed in the New York Daily News, while Hillary is in China or Bangladesh!"

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-19   16:41:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Something can be permitted by the law, but nevertheless be morally reprehensible and worthy of severe condemnation.

Surely free speech allows that?

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-19   16:43:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Something can be permitted by the law, but nevertheless be morally reprehensible and worthy of severe condemnation.

Surely free speech allows that?

Of course.

My point is you keep revisiting the same "AHAH! GOTCHA!" for something he did not say, but only alluded to. If JT wished that Obama is removed from the political process by some misfortune he'd say so in clear and unambiguous language.

He's a retired police officer and he spent many years deterring crime and/or investigating violence, and there's simply no reason to repeatedly try to put him on the defensive for the crime of upsetting your Pollyanna sensibilities.

Lord knows if you want to wring your soft, pink hands, your buddies on that side of the isle have made enough people go away to prevent exposure of their lies and crimes.

How is it that you don't understand why most Americans (including JT, chris and me) would resent anyone changing the course of history that way again?

Had I and JT been old enough we almost certainly wouldn't have voted for JFK, but neither of us wanted him murdered by a cabal who preempted the will of the voters with contract killers and scope rifles.

And, JT's allusion to violence was wildly successful, because here you are still trying to punish him for the non existent crime of reminding you that as FDR said "In politics, nothing is as it seems."

Is it "morally reprehensible" to put you in a continuous loop that has you chanting something like "precious bodily fluids" because he made you unhappy? Perhaps you should leave political discussions to those who won't lose their perspective and resort to an ad nauseum tactic that's grating on others' nerves.

If he said "You better hope that a sniper doesn't murder your boy, DAWG" I'd say, "For your and your ilks' sake you'd better hope so, too!" And that would be the end of it.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-19   17:18:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Is it "morally reprehensible" to put you in a continuous loop that has you chanting something like "precious bodily fluids" because he made you unhappy?

If I'm unhappy, it's because I think every mention of possible assassination -- especially when it appears to be an approving mention -- makes that dreadful event more likely to occur.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-19   17:22:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If I'm unhappy, it's because I think every mention of possible assassination -- especially when it appears to be an approving mention -- makes that dreadful event more likely to occur.

I understand.

I work with skilled tradesmen who are incredibly good at what they do, but, they couldn't tell me who their state reps are to win a bet, and they know even less about national politics.

And, because of America's sordid political history many have automatically defaulted to the position that an African American president would be assassinated.

It's not wishful thinking for most. It's a conditioned reflex that began (for the older ones like me) with the Warren Commission report, and continued up to the murder of John Lennon and attempted hit of Ronnie Raygun.

Unlike Europe where assassinations always involve groups like the Bahder Meinhof Gang, in The US it's always lone nuts who just happen to score nearly 100% with piss poor weapons and no training or detectable outside support. The only thing they have going for them is, their actions seem to benefit the same powerful special interests, again and again.

Americans are petrified of whoever is doing it, and the success rate (that defies statistical probabilities) has the great unwashed convinced that presidents cannot be protected from real lone nuts. (which simply isn't true) Americans don't have to wish for it to understand how these assassins of convenience always surface when the "right people" need them.

In short, I've heard many Americans say, "Hell, they'll prolly shoot him!" and more often than not it's uttered with a sense of dread. It's the rare psycho who would actually wish for that. Nearly all Americans are irreversibly heartsick about at least one (and with most Americans all) of the victims of the "uniquely American lone gunmen" who have robbed so many of us of our childhoods and national pride.

I can promise you that neither JT's or my disdain for any candidate would prompt either of us to wish that on our fellow Lilliputians. One need not care about the intended target to care about our fellows who are living with enough violence induced trauma.

He won't tell you that because he cannot switch gears to a defensive posture for little more than a red herring argument. That's not how he fences on the net.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-19   18:05:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

In short, I've heard many Americans say, "Hell, they'll prolly shoot him!" and more often than not it's uttered with a sense of dread.

Do you remember the rumors of same with Ron Paul?

I do.

And I don't remember the constant assault on the poster that brought the concern, rather I remember the concern about those threatened by his candidacy.

In both cases, if either were a threat the same group is more aptly implicated, don't you think? Your post was really quite clear on that point.

It has been noted time and again that any puppet candidate is useful and expendable, once his purpose is served. The fear, to my way of thinking, each candidate is a Trojan Horse, and we all have reason to bolt the gate.

I suggest thought be given to why that is true.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-19   18:21:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you remember the rumors of same with Ron Paul?

I do.

And I don't remember the constant assault on the poster that brought the concern, rather I remember the concern about those threatened by his candidacy.

In both cases, if either were a threat the same group is more aptly implicated, don't you think? Your post was really quite clear on that point.

It has been noted time and again that any puppet candidate is useful and expendable, once his purpose is served. The fear, to my way of thinking, each candidate is a Trojan Horse, and we all have reason to bolt the gate.

I suggest thought be given to why that is true.

Great Post Spicy goil! ;)

My Senior US Senator Joe Biden's pension is now worth something like 4.8 mil, and that doesn't include what he could steal or otherwise accrue in 29 years on the job.

I'd say that the reason that politics attracts mercenaries is, it's better than being a movie star. Sex, drugs, money, power!

The one thing that Ted Kennedy's inheritance couldn't buy is power, the ultimate aphrodisiac!

And, the sons of Martha's Vineyard are bored with money, cars, sailboats and drugs before they reach college.

What else is there to help them achieve..ahem...satisfactory states of arousal but power?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-19   18:30:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

What else is there to help them achieve..ahem...satisfactory states of arousal but power?

Exactly.

And who allows them term after term of such gluttony? Career politicians; NOT what the founders intended. A man leaves to serve his community, then returns to his own business.. subject to the laws he makes. Far far different that the professional streetwalkers that are very very long in the tooth.

I'd say that the reason that politics attracts mercenaries is, it's better than being a movie star. Sex, drugs, money, power!

LOL !!! I've heard it said that DC was Hollywood for ugly people. Babylon alone was not enough, it needed the law behind it. And so it goes, flows and grows. Utter rot. Which leads to?

Great Post Spicy goil! ;)

Thank you sir. :)

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-19   18:38:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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End Trace Mode for Comment # 86.

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