See other Dead Constitution Articles
Title: The Conservative Movement: From Failure to Threat
Source:
Rockwell
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 19, 2008
Author: Paul Craig Roberts
Post Date: 2008-05-19 09:39:44 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 1925
Comments: 154
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-71) not displayed.
.
.
.
#72. To: Jethro Tull (#71)
And I bet those retired generals who pushed a pro-war propaganda line on the networks for which they were advisers had nothing any longer to do with the Department of Defense.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Surely free speech allows that? Of course. My point is you keep revisiting the same "AHAH! GOTCHA!" for something he did not say, but only alluded to. If JT wished that Obama is removed from the political process by some misfortune he'd say so in clear and unambiguous language. He's a retired police officer and he spent many years deterring crime and/or investigating violence, and there's simply no reason to repeatedly try to put him on the defensive for the crime of upsetting your Pollyanna sensibilities. Lord knows if you want to wring your soft, pink hands, your buddies on that side of the isle have made enough people go away to prevent exposure of their lies and crimes. How is it that you don't understand why most Americans (including JT, chris and me) would resent anyone changing the course of history that way again? Had I and JT been old enough we almost certainly wouldn't have voted for JFK, but neither of us wanted him murdered by a cabal who preempted the will of the voters with contract killers and scope rifles. And, JT's allusion to violence was wildly successful, because here you are still trying to punish him for the non existent crime of reminding you that as FDR said "In politics, nothing is as it seems." Is it "morally reprehensible" to put you in a continuous loop that has you chanting something like "precious bodily fluids" because he made you unhappy? Perhaps you should leave political discussions to those who won't lose their perspective and resort to an ad nauseum tactic that's grating on others' nerves. If he said "You better hope that a sniper doesn't murder your boy, DAWG" I'd say, "For your and your ilks' sake you'd better hope so, too!" And that would be the end of it.
If I'm unhappy, it's because I think every mention of possible assassination -- especially when it appears to be an approving mention -- makes that dreadful event more likely to occur.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Excellent! If SOA/WHINSC doesn't expose the true evil in our "servants'" hearts then nothing does. With the installation of ubiquitous cameras and REAL ID our servants become our masters, and they'll effect a bloodless (for them) coup against us and the constitution. And Alan Dershowitz and the AG du jour are always ready to opine on how to make it all nice and legal like. Again let me mention Red Beckman, one of the researchers who visited the 48 state houses to obtain (certified, he had to do it twice) copies of their 1913 house journals, and he proved that the 16th amendment was not ratified. (as he told me "Don't say not {properly ratified}. It wasn't ratified, period!") Beckman also said "It's a race between the collapse of the economy and the grabbing of the guns. And, which comes first will determine the future course of America!' Need I say more? Those who have no doubt what the shadow govt types are planning for us will have choices, not unlike those faced by the signers of The Declaration. And Ben Franklin understood all too well when he said that "it's better to fight and die on your feet than to live on your knees." After what this govt has done to innocents in the name of the WOT (actually, Eretz Israel) there is no doubt in my mind that I don't ever want to be reduced to federal custody, at least not while I'm alive. I don't threaten or menace anyone, but, "If they mean to have a war then let it begin here."
I disagree. Hard to want more of them if they are given such absolution when they are the majority.
I have seen some way dumb comments posted on various message boards but this one is surely in the top ten. LOL, I can't conceive of anyone getting the VP nomination if they were dead. Of course, there is something to be said for that. His upkeep wouldn't be all that great and he wouldn't need the protection of the gestapo and all that goes with being a live Veep. ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. The language I cited in #37, given the context, can quite reasonably be so interpreted. Not to any reasonable person. Wishing for a person to die falls far short from advocating assassination, as you have accused. I'm finished playing your game. You're not very good at it.
"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"
With the installation of ubiquitous cameras and REAL ID our servants become our masters, and they'll effect a bloodless (for them) coup against us and the constitution. And Alan Dershowitz and the AG du jour are always ready to opine on how to make it all nice and legal like. Again let me mention Red Beckman, one of the researchers who visited the 48 state houses to obtain (certified, he had to do it twice) copies of their 1913 house journals, and he proved that the 16th amendment was not ratified. (as he told me "Don't say not {properly ratified}. It wasn't ratified, period!") Beckman also said "It's a race between the collapse of the economy and the grabbing of the guns. And, which comes first will determine the future course of America!' Need I say more? Those who have no doubt what the shadow govt types are planning for us will have choices, not unlike those faced by the signers of The Declaration. And Ben Franklin understood all too well when he said that "it's better to fight and die on your feet than to live on your knees." After what this govt has done to innocents in the name of the WOT (actually, Eretz Israel) there is no doubt in my mind that I don't ever want to be reduced to federal custody, at least not while I'm alive. I don't threaten or menace anyone, but, "If they mean to have a war then let it begin here." It is ever so clear to all, 75% of America knows what some will not admit. Every individual takes a different path, save the few who benefit from the chaos. Beckman also said "It's a race between the collapse of the economy and the grabbing of the guns. And, which comes first will determine the future course of America!' Need I say more? You might have to... the few have decided we should not be allowed to fight or speak. While we can, we should.
yes, ari, it does, but, again, your taking that one innocuous post and another from another poster, the other day, and attempting to characterize them as assassination threats is more than a complaint (imo). and, btw, "assassination talk" encompasses a lot of talk like that in the Cogburn article i posted to you above.
or making reference to the assassinations of historical figures...
I understand. I work with skilled tradesmen who are incredibly good at what they do, but, they couldn't tell me who their state reps are to win a bet, and they know even less about national politics. And, because of America's sordid political history many have automatically defaulted to the position that an African American president would be assassinated. It's not wishful thinking for most. It's a conditioned reflex that began (for the older ones like me) with the Warren Commission report, and continued up to the murder of John Lennon and attempted hit of Ronnie Raygun. Unlike Europe where assassinations always involve groups like the Bahder Meinhof Gang, in The US it's always lone nuts who just happen to score nearly 100% with piss poor weapons and no training or detectable outside support. The only thing they have going for them is, their actions seem to benefit the same powerful special interests, again and again. Americans are petrified of whoever is doing it, and the success rate (that defies statistical probabilities) has the great unwashed convinced that presidents cannot be protected from real lone nuts. (which simply isn't true) Americans don't have to wish for it to understand how these assassins of convenience always surface when the "right people" need them. In short, I've heard many Americans say, "Hell, they'll prolly shoot him!" and more often than not it's uttered with a sense of dread. It's the rare psycho who would actually wish for that. Nearly all Americans are irreversibly heartsick about at least one (and with most Americans all) of the victims of the "uniquely American lone gunmen" who have robbed so many of us of our childhoods and national pride. I can promise you that neither JT's or my disdain for any candidate would prompt either of us to wish that on our fellow Lilliputians. One need not care about the intended target to care about our fellows who are living with enough violence induced trauma. He won't tell you that because he cannot switch gears to a defensive posture for little more than a red herring argument. That's not how he fences on the net.
Do you remember the rumors of same with Ron Paul? I do. And I don't remember the constant assault on the poster that brought the concern, rather I remember the concern about those threatened by his candidacy. In both cases, if either were a threat the same group is more aptly implicated, don't you think? Your post was really quite clear on that point. It has been noted time and again that any puppet candidate is useful and expendable, once his purpose is served. The fear, to my way of thinking, each candidate is a Trojan Horse, and we all have reason to bolt the gate. I suggest thought be given to why that is true.
I do. And I don't remember the constant assault on the poster that brought the concern, rather I remember the concern about those threatened by his candidacy. In both cases, if either were a threat the same group is more aptly implicated, don't you think? Your post was really quite clear on that point. It has been noted time and again that any puppet candidate is useful and expendable, once his purpose is served. The fear, to my way of thinking, each candidate is a Trojan Horse, and we all have reason to bolt the gate. I suggest thought be given to why that is true. Great Post Spicy goil! ;) My Senior US Senator Joe Biden's pension is now worth something like 4.8 mil, and that doesn't include what he could steal or otherwise accrue in 29 years on the job. I'd say that the reason that politics attracts mercenaries is, it's better than being a movie star. Sex, drugs, money, power! The one thing that Ted Kennedy's inheritance couldn't buy is power, the ultimate aphrodisiac! And, the sons of Martha's Vineyard are bored with money, cars, sailboats and drugs before they reach college. What else is there to help them achieve..ahem...satisfactory states of arousal but power?
Byline: David Gardner BRITISH Nobel Prize winner Doris Lessing caused uproar last night bypredicting the assassination of Barack Obama if he becomes the first black U.S.president. The 88-year-old novelist's remarks came as the Democratic candidate toasted themost successful day in his White House campaign. Mr Obama, the 46-year-old son of a black Kenyan man and a white American,dismissed Mrs Lessing's comments. Miss Lessing said: 'He would probably not last long, a black man in theposition of president. They would kill him.' She said it would be better if Mrs Clinton, 60, becameAmerica's first woman president with Obama as her running mate. 'Hillary is avery sharp lady. It might be calmer if she wins,' she told a Swedish newspaper. But one Democratic analyst said: 'Suggesting Obama is in danger if he wins theelection in November is not only divisive, it is insulting to the Americanpeople.' Princeton University political science professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell raised assassination fears last month, saying: 'Formany black supporters, there is a lot of anxiety that he will be killed. It ison people's minds. 'You can't make a prediction like this - like he has a 50 per cent chance ofgetting shot. But the greater his visibility and the greater his access to people, there is adanger.' Last month, TV host Harry Smith caused an outcry, asking Ted Kennedy,brother of assassinated President John F. Kennedy: 'Sometimes agents of changeend up being targets. Doesn't it make you at all fearful?' Black presidentialcandidate Jesse Jackson received death threats during his campaigns in theEighties and former Secretary of State Colin Powell ruled out a White House runafter his wife feared he would be killed. Illinois senator Mr Obama chalked up a clean sweep in voting on Saturday to winfresh momentum in his deadlocked race with Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination. He easily won the Louisiana primary and caucuses in Nebraska and Washingtonstate, as well as a victory in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The gains cut into the former first lady's slim lead, leaving Mr Obama ahead ina Newsweek poll by 42 per cent to 41 per cent. Mr Obama was expected to do well again in 'Incredibly offensive' tomorrow's primaries in Washington DC, Virginia and Maryland, which all have ahigh black population. Mr Obama is battling behind the scenes to persuade the 'super delegates', theelected Democrat officials who can make up their own minds who to back, toswitch allegiance to him, particularly those representing states where he wasclearly the popular choice. Mrs Clinton has kept a comparatively low profile,focusing her energies on the next big states to vote on March 4 in Ohio andTexas, where she is leading in the polls. But she hit out angrily last night over claims that she was 'pimping out' herdaughter Chelsea, 27, to win votes, insisting she was a mother first and apolitician second. Responding to a comment by American TV reporter David Shuster, she said: 'Ifound the remarks incredibly offensive.' Shuster was suspended by cable channelMSNBC on Friday despite apologising on air. Republican front-runner John McCain suffered a setback at the weekend when hisonly remaining challenger, former Arkansas governor and preacher Mike Huckabee,53, beat him in Louisiana and Kansas. But with almost two-thirds of the Republicans delegates wrapped up, it wouldtake a calamity for the 71-year-old Arizona senator to lose the nomination..
Exactly. And who allows them term after term of such gluttony? Career politicians; NOT what the founders intended. A man leaves to serve his community, then returns to his own business.. subject to the laws he makes. Far far different that the professional streetwalkers that are very very long in the tooth. I'd say that the reason that politics attracts mercenaries is, it's better than being a movie star. Sex, drugs, money, power! LOL !!! I've heard it said that DC was Hollywood for ugly people. Babylon alone was not enough, it needed the law behind it. And so it goes, flows and grows. Utter rot. Which leads to? Great Post Spicy goil! ;) Thank you sir. :)
Not in a thread about the assassination of Obama that the very poster has posted, and when his answers are in reply to questions about whether he posted it because that was what he wanted to happen.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Since you objected to my calling the comments the other day "assassination threats," I have been careful to avoid the term. Even though that is what I thought -- and still think -- those comments were. You will notice I have not used the term in this thread, until now, in answering you. Other people have used it here. Yourself included. (As for the term "wish," you used it yourself in defending those comments to me the other day.)
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Oxford, for a guy who cringes at the thought, you cant stop talking about the event. A clumsy wannabe provocateur at best.
Insult me all you want. I'll be satisfied, as long as you stop the assassination insinuations.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
yep, i admit it. i have and do wish for the demise of truly evil people. you've probably seen me post that i wish something would happen to mcCain before november. do you have a problem with that? does that make me an uncivilized human being in your view? what if i said that the nation would be better off if cheney and his fellow fascists no longer graced this planet? do you find that repugnant too?
You gotta wonder about that.
In a thread about assassination, I would.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
How do you propose to rid DC of parasites who worship endless war, intentionally open our borders to criminals and anti-Americans, lay layers of taxes on our backs that cause us to move away from family and friends, give themselves health care while charging us unaffordable fees, grant themselves immunity to the laws they create and develop a voting scheme that ensures a re-selected for incumbents at a rate of 95%? Hmmmm?????
This entire event by ari is an effort to get banned so he can return to the dust bowl a martyr. Since free speech is encouraged here, he's taking the wrong track.
He is indeed. He should be banned.
aristeides posted on 2008-05-19 19:19:55 ET Reply Trace
Private Reply His latest comment at PC And for anyone
interested, I lived within the 5 boroughs of NYC when I was on the NYPD.
I'd pray for McCain to die before the convention, but I'm an atheist.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Dak, wishing for it make you an assassin. You're in good company, BTW :P
aristeides posted on 2008-05-19 19:19:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply His latest comment at PC Oh, the free speech collective? That bastion of tolerance and Constitutional gird?
Seems to me that this possibly bears a faint resemblance of trying to get someone to make a specific threat, bringing upon themselves a visit from Men With No Sense Of Humor. But I could maybe, possibly be wrong. I dont want to stir the pot when the pot is sufficiently stirred as it is.
That's how I see it too.
Then I have awesome mind control powers. Now...how to use them?
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
I agree with your take, and that's fine. In the world we're about to enter, visits by govt. folk should be expected and something we should train for. Should it happen to me, I'll record every word and post it right here for all to hear. If they refuse to let me record the interview, I'll end it promptly after we exchange greetings. As Americans, the govt. should fear us, not the other way around.
It's about getting the brain to actually pulsate. Turtle can do it, and I've seen it once before on a cheesy sci-fi flick.
We could replace the entire US House of Reps every two years if we so chose, yet it doesn't happen. Taxpaying citizens, of course, are at a numeric disadvantage to their public charge counterparts. Between the no-bid contract greedheads at the GOP and the lifetime tenure leeches that make up the other party, people that just want to be left the hell alone don't have much of a voice. The meek may someday inherit the earth, but it won't be in my lifetime.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Are folks who support statist whores all that different from the statist whores? Just curious.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Here's the part I don't get. The R party was infiltrated by a bunch of Marxist creeps who, with the backing of Marxist Media hijacked the very definition of Conservative; so that renders the original theory inoperative and the hijackers the fucking heroes?
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
What I don't get is why otherwise seemingly sane people can all of a sudden decide that some establishment whore is the saviour of the republic. Some of the same people who used to know, or seemed to, that no establishment whore was worth voting for.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. James, elitists liberals have taken issue with me when all I've done is wish socialist, worldwide, failed to wake up in the AM. I had always thought we were on the same page with that one. Obviously frauds walked among us.
I keep hoping Hillary will make up a lie about smuggling poisonous tropical fish with the Guamanian Garment Workers Union.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
I am unaware of any GOP supporters on this site. Do you have any names, or are you just playing the Democratic version of the old, "if you don't vote for George Bush you're a liberal?" That stupid remark never worked when the republicrats on TOS1 and TOS2 tried it and it sure the hell isn't going to work when you or the other democans on this site try it. My vote is mine and I will use it as I choose. I do not need your permission nor do I care what your opinion of my third party vote is. Have a wonderful day.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
Comments (113 - 154) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#73. To: aristeides (#65)
Something can be permitted by the law, but nevertheless be morally reprehensible and worthy of severe condemnation.
#74. To: HOUNDDAWG (#73)
Is it "morally reprehensible" to put you in a continuous loop that has you chanting something like "precious bodily fluids" because he made you unhappy?
#75. To: Peppa (#66)
#76. To: aristeides (#69)
What do I think? Of course they don't bear anything close to equal blame.
#77. To: aristeides, Jethro Tull, christine, FOH, all (#22)
(Edited)
Let's grant your wish, and suppose assassination prevents Obama from getting the presidential nomination. Can you conceive of him getting the VP nomination under those circumstances?
Lord Acton
#78. To: aristeides, christine (#63)
"Your words imply (falsely) he openly advocates or has expressed a desire for such. "
#79. To: HOUNDDAWG (#75)
If SOA/WHINSC doesn't expose the true evil in our "servants'" hearts then nothing does.
#80. To: aristeides (#43)
Well, free speech should allow the rest of us to complain about assassination talk, I should think.
#81. To: angle (#78)
Not to any reasonable person. Wishing for a person to die falls far short from advocating assassination, as you have accused.
#82. To: aristeides (#74)
If I'm unhappy, it's because I think every mention of possible assassination -- especially when it appears to be an approving mention -- makes that dreadful event more likely to occur.
#83. To: HOUNDDAWG (#82)
In short, I've heard many Americans say, "Hell, they'll prolly shoot him!" and more often than not it's uttered with a sense of dread.
#84. To: Peppa (#83)
Do you remember the rumors of same with Ron Paul?
#85. To: aristeides (#74)
ari......people are talking......
Assassination warning spoils Obama party.
#86. To: HOUNDDAWG (#84)
(Edited)
What else is there to help them achieve..ahem...satisfactory states of arousal but power?
#87. To: angle (#78)
Wishing for a person to die falls far short from advocating assassination, as you have accused.
#88. To: christine (#80)
(Edited)
characterize them as assassination threats
#89. To: aristeides (#87)
Not in a thread about the assassination of Obama that the very poster has posted, and when his answers are in reply to questions about whether he posted it because that was what he wanted to happen.
#90. To: Jethro Tull (#89)
#91. To: aristeides (#88)
#92. To: Jethro Tull (#89)
Oxford, for a guy who cringes at the thought, you cant stop talking about the event.
#93. To: christine (#91)
do you find that repugnant too?
#94. To: aristeides (#90)
#95. To: Peppa (#92)
#96. To: Jethro Tull (#95)
This entire event by ari is an effort to get banned so he can return to the dust bowl a martyr. Since free speech is encouraged here, he's taking the wrong track.
#97. To: Peppa (#96)
I just posted Bob Barr's comments on 4um. Let's see if there's
a reaction.
#98. To: christine, aristeides (#91)
#99. To: Dakmar (#98)
#100. To: Jethro Tull (#97)
I just posted Bob Barr's comments on 4um. Let's see if there's a reaction.
#101. To: Jethro Tull, All (#95)
#102. To: PSUSA (#101)
Seems to me that this possibly bears a faint resemblance of trying to get someone to make a specific threat, bringing upon themselves a visit from Men With No Sense Of Humor.
#103. To: Jethro Tull (#99)
wishing for it make you an assassin
#104. To: PSUSA (#101)
Seems to me that this possibly bears a faint resemblance of trying to get someone to make a specific threat, bringing upon themselves a visit from Men With No Sense Of Humor.
#105. To: Dakmar (#103)
Then I have awesome mind control powers. Now...how to use them?
#106. To: Jethro Tull (#104)
As Americans, the govt. should fear us, not the other way around.
#107. To: Arator (#1)
Are 4umers who find acceptable the continuation of these brownshirts in power all that different from the brownshirts themselves?
Lord Acton
#108. To: James Deffenbach (#107)
(Edited)
#109. To: Dakmar (#108)
Here's the part I don't get. The R party was infiltrated by a bunch of Marxist creeps who, with the backing of Marxist Media hijacked the very definition of Conservative; so that renders the original theory inoperative and the hijackers the fucking heroes?
Lord Acton
#110. To: James Deffenbach (#109)
#111. To: Jethro Tull (#110)
#112. To: Arator (#1)
Are 4umers who find acceptable the continuation of these brownshirts in power all that different from the brownshirts themselves?
.
.
.