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(s)Elections
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Title: What Are We Waiting For?
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 20, 2008
Author: Joel S. Hirschhhorn
Post Date: 2008-05-20 14:24:37 by statusquobuster
Keywords: Barack Obama, Ralph Nader, democracy
Views: 672
Comments: 53

What Are We Waiting For?

Joel S. Hirschhorn

Long before the disastrous George W. Bush administration, I had been waiting for profound, systemic changes in our political system. Perversely, I saw the upside of Bush as motivating more Americans to demand political change. And that happened. But the national yearning for change was co-opted by Ron Paul on the right and Barack Obama on the left while John Edwards with the most authentic populist change message fizzled out early.

It is not enough to want, demand and support change, not when change is more of a campaign slogan than a carefully detailed set of reforms. Critically needed is a firm understanding of what specific changes can restore American democracy and remove the privileged rich plutocrats and corporatists running and ruining our nation.

A huge fraction of Americans have bought into the Obama candidacy because of his polished and effective rhetoric. But Obama does not offer the changes I have been waiting for, or the ones the public needs. A great speaker does not necessarily have the courage or intent to fight for deep political reforms.

Our nation’s Founders did not create the United States of America just with smiles and slick rhetoric; they were bold, risk-taking revolutionaries fighting tyranny. Obama has not defined our domestic tyranny and told us how he will try to abolish it. Obama is no dissident or revolutionary. The change he mostly seeks is moving from senator to president. Not what I have been waiting for.

There is no evidence in Obama’s brief political career that he is a champion for deep political reforms to transfer power from the plutocrats to the people. To the contrary, the more you learn about Obama’s history the more he appears as just another super-ambitious politician making friends, using people and cutting deals to get ahead.

To begin with, I have been waiting for a potential president that speaks out against the over-powerful two-party system that sucks up money from all countless corporate and other special interests. I have never heard a word from Obama to indicate he understands the many harmful effects of the two-party plutocracy and the need to open up our political system to a much wider spectrum of beliefs and strategies. Instead, Obama cleverly talks about bipartisanship just as many other Democrats and Republicans have, because that maintains the two-party status quo.

If Obama believed in opening up the political system he would, for example, advocate opening up televised presidential debates to third party candidates and removing the many obstacles the two parties have built to limit ballot access to third party and independent candidates. He would also openly call for replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote for president.

If Obama truly wanted to get rid of big, corrupting money from corporate and other special interests, then he should be advocating a constitutional amendment that would remove all private money from political campaigns and change the US system to totally publicly financed campaigns. Only a constitutional amendment can accomplish this. Campaign financing reforms by Congress are a distraction and next to useless.

And if Obama really supported universal health care, then he would have concluded as nearly all experts have that the nation needs a single payer insurance system that puts an end to the rape of the public by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Change? Absolutely. But real systemic, root changes that reform and transform the current system by changing the power structure that both major parties have nourished over many decades. What is so clear to millions of people highly skeptical of the Obama-as-political-messiah fiction is that he has not earned the presidency through diverse political and leadership accomplishments.

Sure, none of the other candidates are any better than Obama - not Hillary Clinton, not John McCain. More worthy candidates based on experience and authenticity succumbed to many bizarre forces and media disinterest. It is too late to enlighten ardent Obamatons, but millions of voters will justify voting for Obama as the lesser evil candidate. That proves how bankrupt our political system really is. Now is the time to reject the two-party plutocracy and vote for third party and independent candidates, such as Ralph Nader. Yes we can! Voters that define themselves as independents should assert their independence by rejecting candidates from both major parties.

With a longer view of history, there really is something worse than John McCain becoming president. It is once again upholding the periodic shift of power between the two major parties that stabilizes their tyranny. Just as the Bush administration has built demand for change so too would a McBush presidency. Maybe then in 2012 a true, trustworthy and proven agent of change would have a shot at the presidency. However, electing Obama will set back things back. He will only disappoint us and drain all the pent up demand for change by delivering, at most, some cosmetic actions. Just like his recent decision to wear a flag lapel pin.

The right question is not whether this African American can win the general election, it is SHOULD he be president?

After a few years as president, millions of people would realize that Obama is not the political salvation people have been waiting for. Of course, he would then focus on getting a second term, with more seductive smiles, empty platitudes and false promises. Why not? It worked the first time.

[Contact Joel S. Hirschhorn through www.delusionaldemocracy.com.]

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#14. To: christine (#2)

What is so clear to millions of people highly skeptical of the Obama-as-political-messiah fiction is that he has not earned the presidency through diverse political and leadership accomplishments.

It's impossible for some to look beyond his color to see what is really there, and what isn't. Hope is not a strategy.

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-21   11:28:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: aristeides (#10)

Also, if they continue to admit that McCain's cause is fascist, they're going to have a hard job selling the McCain-as-lesser-evil line.

How long will it take to get through to you that they are BOTH evil? Does your hero have to send the goons to put you or some of your family or friends in one of the "nice camps" the government has set up before you wake up? Or do you think that because you like communists and Marxists that you are immune?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-21   11:33:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: angle (#7)

Keep thinking you got a choice...that'll distract you until November at least.

Sad, sad commentary on what the country has become. Somewhere near 300 MILLION people and the best the establishment can offer for president is a Clinton, Obama or a McCain??? That is freakin' sad!

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-21   11:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#5)

Someone must be VERY afraid of the Obamer.

Only actual Americans. For the same reason they fear the witch Hillary and the whackjob, McCain.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-21   11:37:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: christine (#2)

And if Obama really supported universal health care, then he would have concluded as nearly all experts have that the nation needs a single payer insurance system that puts an end to the rape of the public by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Would never have tagges you a Hillary gal. ;-)

At least Barack's proposal includes an opt-out from the Fed program for those desiring it.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-05-22   10:10:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Kamala (#8)

What these few socialists/commies/Democrats we have left here at 4um can't grasp is, just because some relentlessly rip Obama, doesn't equate to support of McCain or the Republicans.

It's the Democratic version of the old Freik Repugnant/LP "if you don't vote for the republican candidate you're a liberal Democrat."

Ideologues are the same on both sides of the aisle. They cannot seem to grasp the idea that many people say a pox on both their houses, especially on this forum.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-05-22   10:17:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: aristeides (#10)

Also, if they continue to admit that McCain's cause is fascist, they're going to have a hard job selling the McCain-as-lesser-evil line.

Who is they? I've yet to see a single person on this site advocate McCain.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-05-22   10:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: James Deffenbach (#16)

Sad, sad commentary on what the country has become. Somewhere near 300 MILLION people and the best the establishment can offer for president is a Clinton, Obama or a McCain??? That is freakin' sad!

As I stated on another thread, the three we have now are not the best we have to offer, but to get a better quality candidate will take some work from the American people and they are not up to the challenge. They'd have to turn the channel away from American Idol or Dancing with the Stars and actually put forth some effort. They ain't interested.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-05-22   10:24:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: statusquobuster (#0)

He would also openly call for replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote for president.

Everything was going good until he said this! Allowing LA, NY and SF to elect our President does not make things more fair. Sorry.


Don't let turtle know I have him on bozo or I'll put you on bozo too!

farmfriend  posted on  2008-05-22   10:43:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: ghostdogtxn (#1)

He ain't kosher in the Knesset.

They just used Obama to get rid of Hillary.


Don't let turtle know I have him on bozo or I'll put you on bozo too!

farmfriend  posted on  2008-05-22   10:45:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: angle, Kamala (#9)

I sure was fooled by more than a few who professed the same. They're on the politically correct site now.

They made themselves obvious long before the elections. They always advocated government control over the environment and health care.


Don't let turtle know I have him on bozo or I'll put you on bozo too!

farmfriend  posted on  2008-05-22   10:49:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Hayek Fan (#19)

They cannot seem to grasp the idea that many people say a pox on both their houses

I have been saying that for YEARS.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-22   11:03:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: James Deffenbach (#25)

I have been saying that for YEARS.

That's what's so frustrating. So has everyone else on this board, to include the ones now doing the accusing. But because they've changed their minds all of a sudden we're republican shills even though our opinions are the exactly the same as they've been for years.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-05-22   11:07:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Hayek Fan (#26)

But because they've changed their minds all of a sudden we're republican shills even though our opinions are the exactly the same as they've been for years.

we even got accused of sounding like we believed the government's 911 tale. sheesh.

christine  posted on  2008-05-22   11:12:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: christine (#27)

we even got accused of sounding like we believed the government's 911 tale. sheesh.

Really? I missed that one I think. Oh well. Let them believe what they want. They are the ones who have changed not us.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-05-22   11:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Kamala. all (#8)

One of the main reasons I post here is because I'm an independent, a Constitutionalist, an individualist, support personal responsibility and freedom, smaller government, and the main reason, the exposure of the two party fraud.

Amen.

Lod  posted on  2008-05-22   11:22:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: christine, Jethro Tull, Peppa (#27)

we even got accused of sounding like we believed the government's 911 tale. sheesh.

At least two posters on this forum have indicated to me that they're unimpressed by Obama's promise to restore habeas corpus, because that would only help people like the "muzzies" in Gitmo.

Now, what sense does that make unless you believe in the government's 9/11 story?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-22   11:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Hayek Fan (#26) (Edited)

That's what's so frustrating. So has everyone else on this board, to include the ones now doing the accusing. But because they've changed their minds all of a sudden we're republican shills even though our opinions are the exactly the same as they've been for years.

What can you expect from people who have swallowed the Kook Aid and decided that they will vote yet once more for the establishment whore? Because he SAID he would give them CHANGE and he PROMISED. It would be funny if it weren't so freakin' pathetic and injurious to my rights (I really don't much care about the rights of people who vote for things like Obama, McCain and Hillary, they pretty much deserve whatever screwing they get).

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-22   11:37:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: aristeides. Gitmo, habeas corpus, (#30)

habeas corpus

Our prisons are chock filled with people charged with crimes (not convicted) who have bail set so high, that for all intents and purposes they are being held indefinitely.Please tell this forum what good a viable habeas corpus is doing for these Americans?

Please start placing America First, before you expect me to cry for anyone in Gitmo. I have a finite amount of tears.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   12:45:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Jethro Tull (#32)

The sad thing is that for the past 3 decades or so, the concept of preventive enforcement has become acceptable and widespread, albeit always for a worthy cause.

DUI checkpoint roadblocks, 21 as a drinking age, the ability to search cars arbitrarily, noknock house invasions, searches of luggage on buses, employment drug screening etc, etc.

All the precepts of the WOD are now applicable to ordinary Americans.

That water's gotten nice and warm now.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-05-22   12:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Jethro Tull (#32)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-22   12:52:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: ghostdogtxn, swarthyguy, Ari (#34)

Habeas Corpus provides no protection against excessive bail requirements. Lets say tomorrow BushInc takes the habeas off the table for McCain, the Gitmos are, at best, going to be shuffled in front of a federal employee posing as a judge, and hammered with an absurd bail and then returned to their cell. So much for the argument.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   13:03:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Jethro Tull (#35)

Gitmo is almost irrelevant. The US prisons in Bagram, Djibouti, and Diego Garcia will function as they are now. Bagram has a new facility going up.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-05-22   13:08:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Jethro Tull (#35)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-05-22   13:20:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: ghostdogtxn (#37)

http://www.rightrainbow.com/archives/2008/05/lawyers_for_may.html

Ah, the Reform Act! Never heard of it, and why am I not surprised these little despots have a tool that makes the Constitution an elongated piece of Charmin? Law is what the system deems it to be.

Catch this beaut. A gun challenge where Bloomberg wants no mention of the 2nd amendment allowed in court.

Lawyers for Mayor Bloomberg: When we sue you, make no mention of the Constitution They don’t want the store owner raising his constitutional rights as a defense:

Lawyers for Mayor Bloomberg are asking a judge to ban any reference to the Second Amendment during the upcoming trial of a gun shop owner who was sued by the city. While trials are often tightly choreographed, with lawyers routinely instructed to not tell certain facts to a jury, a gag order on a section of the Constitution would be an oddity.

[…]

City lawyers, in a motion filed Tuesday, asked the judge, Jack Weinstein of U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, to preclude the store’s lawyers from arguing that the suit infringed on any Second Amendment rights belonging to the gun store or its customers. In the motion, the lawyer for the city, Eric Proshansky, is also seeking a ban on “any references” to the amendment.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   14:00:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Jethro Tull (#38)

All the bros are Irish shysters?

Cynicom  posted on  2008-05-22   14:04:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Jethro Tull (#32)

I see. You're only a constitutional absolutist when it comes to certain constitutional rights, and certain people.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-22   14:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: aristeides (#40)

Never let reality to get in the way of your adoration to a politician. See above:

Habeas Corpus provides no protection against excessive bail requirements. In fact GDT brought forward the Reform Act where bail is denied outright in federal court. So tell me again why how argument has relevance, except to Os and their politics?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   14:26:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Cynicom (#39)

All the bros are Irish shysters?

Seems the Irish can fall on the McCarthy or Kennedy side of politics. We aren't tweeners, bags of wind, yes, but not tweeners :P

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   14:27:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Jethro Tull (#41)

The people you're talking about will have their day in court, unless they waive that right. If the government tries to prevent that, then they can use habeas corpus.

Which is precisely what the government is denying the detainees in Gitmo.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-22   14:35:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: aristeides (#43)

And habeas acomplishes what, for whom, if it's trumped by no bail or excessive bail?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   14:44:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Jethro Tull (#44)

It means that you get your day in court. There will be a trial. The government can't stop that. If they try, habeas stops them.

And that is what is being denied to the detainees.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-22   14:54:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Jethro Tull (#38)

a gag order on a section of the Constitution would be an oddity.

My word! Really? But its for a "good" cause. Those smokers might have guns!

It's like two amendments for one; they nail the first while debating the second.

Of course, it's a court of "law" so it's allowed. I mean, there are restrictions on speech and the first in a court all the time, aren't there.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-05-22   15:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: aristeides (#45)

So restore HC forthwith and run up against that federal employee in a black robe that you hold in such high esteem. In the end, the Gitmo will be back in his/her assigned cage.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   15:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: swarthyguy (#46)

It's like two amendments for one; they nail the first while debating the second.

Bloomberg has to be a Woody Allen fan.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   15:10:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Jethro Tull (#47)

It's been federal employees who have been ruling so often of late against the government at Gitmo. They're military lawyers, and I suspect they wear military uniforms, rather than black robes, when they're in their courts. But they're federal employees, all the same.

Federal employees with legal training and ethos are capable of ruling against their bosses and for prisoners, whether they wear black robes or military uniforms. I have worked with military lawyers, and clerked for two years for a federal judge, and I know what they're capable of.

The political hacks to whom the Bush regime has tried to give absolute power over the detainees, not so much.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-22   15:11:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: aristeides (#49)

The principled stand of various military lawyers about the whole Bush process over the past few years has been something; I've caught some appearances on CSPAN.

By the time the debate starts, ie. an Obama win, Gitmo will be empty. There haven't been new prisoners added to Gitmo in a long time; perhaps a couple HVT's were shipped there in the past couple of years.

Abu Ghraib on the other hand, is turning out to be a great substitute.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-05-22   15:17:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: aristeides (#49)

The Supremes heard argument on '07? What's the status of the argument?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   15:34:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Jethro Tull (#51)

If you're asking about Boumedienne v. Bush, the Supreme Court heard oral argument on Dec. 5 and has yet to issue its decision. It generally decides its most controversial cases shortly before it ends its term. Term generally ends in early June.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-22   15:50:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: aristeides (#52)

Oral arguments on a consolidated Guantanamo Bay detention camp detainee habeas corpus petition, Al Odah v. United States were heard by the Supreme Court of the United States on December 5, 2007, and recently by HR 1955 The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2006.

from wiki

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-22   15:55:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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