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Resistance
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Title: Jim Webb (Obama's Future Veep) Sets a Vision for Uniting Blacks and Hillbilly Whites In Common Cause
Source: Huffington Post
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/ ... speaks-out-on-ra_n_102915.html
Published: May 21, 2008
Author: Jim Webb
Post Date: 2008-05-21 19:21:03 by Arator
Keywords: Webb, Veep, Victory
Views: 318
Comments: 28

It's refreshing when someone makes the effort to advance the discussion of this year's election beyond debating a black/white divide. So when that someone is oft-mentioned potential Democratic running mate Jim Webb, it's worth taking note.

Webb appeared on Morning Joe today to speak about his newest book, A Time to Fight: Reclaiming a Fair and Just America, and to dodge questions about whether he would accept a spot on Barack Obama's presidential ticket. But since the Kentucky primary had just provided pundits with fodder to discuss the ever-popular "Does Obama have a working whites problem?" Webb weighed in on the election results and his Scots-Irish heritage.

The Virginia senator suggested that race is indeed a factor in Obama's poor performance among white voters along the east of the country, saying, "we shouldn't be surprised by the way they're voting now." But he bristled at what he suggested is a simplistic interpretation of the issue. "When I hear people say this is racism, my back gets up a little bit, because that's my cultural group."

Webb sought to explain what motivates Scots-Irish Americans. First, says Webb, it's not a generic race or geographic label, but rather "a very powerful cultural group that's always underestimated, and it's not always in the Appalachian mountains." And the issue is not Obama himself, who Webb thinks is "saying a lot of good things that will appeal to this cultural group in time."

Rather, Webb -- whose previous book Born Fighting explores the effect of Scots-Irish culture on America's formation -- argued that Scots-Irish voters' unwillingness to support Obama is less about the candidate himself, than about a sense of injustice among the community manifested by the government assistance afforded to minorities in the post-Civil Rights Era:

This isn't Selma, 1965. This is a result of how affirmative action, which was basically a justifiable concept when it applied to African Americans, expanded to every single ethnic group in America that was not white, and these were the people who had not received benefits and were not getting anything out of it. And they're basically saying let's pay attention to what has happened to this cultural group in terms of opportunities.

Webb even drew a parallel between this bloc and African Americans, suggesting that their grievances with and needs from the federal government are remarkably similar.

Black America and Scots-Irish America are like tortured siblings. They both have long history and they both missed the boat when it came to the larger benefits that a lot of other people were able to receive. There's a saying in the Appalachian mountains that they say to one another, and it's, "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight." ...

If this cultural group could get at the same table as black America you could rechange populist American politics. Because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.

A powerful coalition indeed. If only there were two politicians who understood these cultures, and had the desire and capacity to unity them for a common cause...


Poster Comment:

I love Jim Webb. He's my peeps. He knows what's what. If he and Obama can get together, it's lights out for the GOP.

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#1. To: Arator (#0)

Actual title:

Jim Webb Speaks Out On Race, Addresses Grievances Of White America

Peppa  posted on  2008-05-21   19:23:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#0)

Jim Webb also said (I meant to bold it too):

If this cultural group could get at the same table as black America you could rechange populist American politics. Because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-21   19:26:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Arator (#2)

The answer is to replace racial preferences with preferences based on economic status.

Obama hinted he was thinking of such a switch in his speech on race.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-05-21   19:29:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Arator (#0) (Edited)

Webb and Obama would criminalize speech.

HERE

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Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-21   19:37:41 ET  (3 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: aristeides (#3) (Edited)

The answer is to replace racial preferences with preferences based on economic status.

Obama hinted he was thinking of such a switch in his speech on race.

This is what makes an Obama/Webb ticket so powerful (and exciting). Together, they can change the political paradigm in so many ways, all of which work to gut the GOP like a fish.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-21   19:43:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Arator, christine, Jethro Tull, rowdee, Peppa (#0)

If I wasn't up to speed on this issue I doubt that I could read between the lines.

What he's saying is many poor whites feel that blacks are consuming more than their "fair share" of welfare, food stamps, etc.,. and that govt is disqualifying whites in favor of blacks.

The fact is, govt agencies have higher expectations for disabled or chronically underemployed whites than blacks, and blacks can seemingly receive benefits with less hassle.

So, when our own govt presumes that there's "white skin privilege" which would permit disabled whites to secure less strenuous (and lower paying) jobs while automatically putting blacks with similar problems on the dole, then poor whites have a case.

What state and federal govts may believe but won't say is, unlike whites, poor blacks cannot be driven through desperation to accept any type of low paying, unskilled employment. But, they will more readily turn to criminal enterprises (robbery, burglary, selling drugs, etc.,.) and blame racism for their permanent underclass criminal status. (Many across the spectrum have argued that welfare is a form of bribery or tribute to keep black crime down to epidemic levels)

Thom Metzger of White Aryan Resistance (WAR) urged whites to "get all the welfare you can now because it'll be gone in a few years."

He's the only self-styled white leader I've ever heard express anger because blacks can more easily get state benefits. And, it made me wonder just who his followers are!

I'd be ashamed to say "Comrade Thom, I was denied bennies so I had to go to work! How come the nig....I mean, African Americans aren't forced to work?" Are these people suggesting that a work ethic should be forced onto blacks instead of allowing it to serve as a point of cultural and racial pride?

The undeniable fact is many seemingly equal whites and poor blacks are not equal at all because a number of blacks have no marketable job skills or the aptitude to be trained for employment. And, in many 2nd and 3rd gen welfare families there isn't even a passing acquaintance with the Protestant work ethic, which is a powerful motivator for those (white and black) who do move off of welfare.

In other words, all things being equal (blacks and whites who are unemployed) things are seldom equal.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-21   19:53:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Arator (#5)

This is what makes an Obama/Webb ticket so powerful (and exciting). Together, they can change the political paradigm in so many ways, all of which work to gut the GOP like a fish.

Here's a picture of your hero that you love so much.

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Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-05-21   20:13:14 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Arator (#5)

White America will not elect a black President.

Do you see any "whites" as presidsent in any African countries????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-05-21   20:17:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: aristeides (#3)

The answer is to replace racial preferences with preferences based on economic status.

Obama hinted he was thinking of such a switch in his speech on race.

EXACTLY!

And let's take it one step further: Let's bring back the draft, with one special new rule. The more you and/or your family is worth, the higher your number. Let the richest go first. No "college exemptions" or crap like that... your family is worth millions, then YOU go FIRST. Period. On the FRONT LINES with you, Sparky. Have fun, and hey, have a NICE day.

Boy, I bet we'd suddenly become the most non-violent, pacifistic empire in the history of the planet....

Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2008-05-21   20:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Elliott Jackalope (#9)

And let's take it one step further: Let's bring back the draft, with one special new rule. The more you and/or your family is worth, the higher your number. Let the richest go first. No "college exemptions" or crap like that... your family is worth millions, then YOU go FIRST. Period. On the FRONT LINES with you, Sparky. Have fun, and hey, have a NICE day.

Muhahahahahahahaha...

Now you know Aristeides will NEVER agree to that.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-05-21   20:32:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: aristeides (#3)

Obama hinted he was thinking of such a switch in his speech on race.

Then let him come out and say it and offer a specific plan.

Until then, its just guesswork and Obama's platform continues to specify continuing the current discriminatory programs.

McCain/Obama '08 -- Because the next step is Socialism rather than Freedom.

mirage  posted on  2008-05-21   20:33:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: mirage (#11)

Lets have a quota of "poor people" in congress. Voted in by poor people only.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-05-21   20:36:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Cynicom (#12)

Lets have a quota of "poor people" in congress. Voted in by poor people only.

That's not the point.

The issue is politicians who speak of 'change' and then allude to something but don't actually come right out and say it leaving people to wonder what is on their minds.

REAL change starts with getting some openness and honesty. Tell the people up front how badly they're going to get shafted. Then let them decide if they want it or not.

This goes for all of them. To get real change, let's start with an outline published at an 8th grade reading level so at least most people can get a hold of it, read it, and understand it.

McCain/Obama '08 -- Because the next step is Socialism rather than Freedom.

mirage  posted on  2008-05-21   20:40:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Arator (#0)

There's a saying in the Appalachian mountains that they say to one another, and it's, "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight." ...

Oh gawd.......give me a break.........not another friggin VICTIM!!!

Get over it, arator. You're a long ways removed from the commonly-held ancestry of scots-irish! Are you wanting 40 and a mule, too?

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-05-21   21:30:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: rowdee (#14)

Get over it, arator. You're a long ways removed from the commonly-held ancestry of scots-irish! Are you wanting 40 and a mule, too?

Nah, but I would like a country where the common folk aren't systematically gang raped by corporate pirates. And that's just for starters. ;^)

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-05-21   22:19:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Arator (#15)

I want my country back to a different time, too, Arator, but I sure as hell am not gonna start thinking some socialist bastard is gonna get it there--not anywhere close. Incrementalism has never worked for the conservative side of the aisle...........and it ain't gonna start now.

I'm not into the 'end justifies the means' either--I see the mess we are in now because of this attitude.

Never much believed in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny, either....never saw anything of lasting value with them.

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-05-22   0:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: HOUNDDAWG (#6)

The undeniable fact is many seemingly equal whites and poor blacks are not equal at all because a number of blacks have no marketable job skills or the aptitude to be trained for employment.

Let me tell you what I see at work. We have plenty of qualified black employees that have been approached (by me) to apply for management positions that they are more than qualified for. Know what? They won't.

In their current postions and financial status, they qualify for additional *aid*. If they move up the company ladder, their financial status goes up as well and they know they lose that *aid*. It's the same reasons they won't marry their *baby's daddy*. They lose the free health care and all the other goodies that they are getting.

Does it piss me off? You betcha. They choose to stay in a low income bracket when they don't have to. They have marketable skills and have the opportunity to learn even more and they chose not to. I haven't run in to that with the white employees, not one time.

Bush: Worst President Ever

justlurking  posted on  2008-05-22   0:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Arator (#0)

"Obama: For a Kinder, Gentler Shakedown."

"Obama: He won't chimp out."

"Obama: In your heart, you know he's Wright."

"Obama: Putting Negroes First."

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” Schweizerische Schutzenseitunt (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

X-15  posted on  2008-05-22   1:04:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Arator (#0)

This is a result of how affirmative action, which was basically a justifiable concept when it applied to African Americans

Bullshit.

"if you're poor and white, you're out of sight."

Truth.

If this cultural group could get at the same table as black America you could rechange populist American politics.

Truth. Empirically there are two ways diverse societies can kinda-sorta work. The first is a police state. The second is strict proportional representation of self-identified groupings.

If you will go along with me we'll travel with the tide
And I will always keep you on the sheltered side

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-22   1:26:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: aristeides (#3)

The answer is to replace racial preferences with preferences based on economic status.

Except of course that it does nothing to touch those at the top. As always, those in the middle will pay the price.

How about a circular shift? Allot slots to the bottom rung, for sure, but take the slots from those at the top.

At the very least it would make an interesting experiment in game theory for the top of the class at exam time.

If you will go along with me we'll travel with the tide
And I will always keep you on the sheltered side

Tauzero  posted on  2008-05-22   1:30:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: justlurking (#17)

Let me tell you what I see at work. We have plenty of qualified black employees that have been approached (by me) to apply for management positions that they are more than qualified for. Know what? They won't.

In their current postions and financial status, they qualify for additional *aid*. If they move up the company ladder, their financial status goes up as well and they know they lose that *aid*. It's the same reasons they won't marry their *baby's daddy*. They lose the free health care and all the other goodies that they are getting.

Does it piss me off? You betcha. They choose to stay in a low income bracket when they don't have to. They have marketable skills and have the opportunity to learn even more and they chose not to. I haven't run in to that with the white employees, not one time.

Interesting.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-22   4:52:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Arator (#0) (Edited)

Black America and Scots-Irish America are like tortured siblings. They both have long history and they both missed the boat when it came to the larger benefits that a lot of other people were able to receive. There's a saying in the Appalachian mountains that they say to one another, and it's, "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight." ...

If this cultural group could get at the same table as black America you could rechange populist American politics. Because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.

Sounds like Jim Goad's "Redneck Manifesto," where he basically says that blacks have more in common with redneck whites than they do with elite liberals who support them, and redneck whites have more in common with blacks than with the corporate GOPers that they vote for.

It's at least partly true. The stereotypes of both groups - violence, lack of education, religiosity, are basically the same. "Liberals" who laugh at uneducated, Bible-banging rednecks pretend to love the same qualities in blacks, while "Conservatives" who complain about black welfare queens court the vote of fundamentalist rednecks in the boonies who also receive foodstamps.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-05-22   11:00:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: rowdee, arator (#14)

There's a saying in the Appalachian mountains that they say to one another, and it's, "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight." ...

Oh gawd.......give me a break.........not another friggin VICTIM!!!

Get over it, arator. You're a long ways removed from the commonly-held ancestry of scots-irish! Are you wanting 40 and a mule, too?

I've heard this said many times as a kid but (growing up in Norfolk, VA) I never understood how whites could reach that point.

in the late 70's when I moved to Iowa to build the first microcomputer store in the state (and the APPLE COMPUTER distributor for the midwest) I was working for a really meager wage, and there were simply no other ways to hustle a side buck there! (Wifey was commuting to Rock Island to work as a medical secretary and I was a computer store manager and we didn't make $400 a week between us!)

John Deere was on strike and money was real tight, and I wasn't a farmer or welder (for trailer hitches etc.,.) and I had no skills to offer the ag industry. Back home there was always some way I could pick up a few bills on the side, but the only things I could do in IOWA was play music in a bowling alley or a "knock down-drag out" country bar on the weekends that payed very little and was often in very cold and snowy conditions, or, I could use my pickup truck to do odd hauling for a major meat packing company. (ARMOUR)

Well, I was given the assignment to go to Peoria, Ill and pick up a load of desk chairs and when I arrived I learned that they weren't there and the guy had sent me to the wrong place.

When I returned I went to get paid for my gas and time, and the mgr said that if I insisted on penalizing him for his mistake then he couldn't use my services any longer!

He expected me to absorb the gas for the 160 mile round trip and the four hours (on two lane black top) of deadhead time and pay me nothing because he too, knew how hard it was to hustle a side buck there. I mean not getting paid for my time is one thing. But with the gas I burned I damn sure wasn't going to subsidize a multi bazillion dollar corporation!

He paid me and I never worked for him again. If I didn't have a job at all I suppose he'd have had me over a barrel, but I just couldn't let him shit on me because I would never do that to others, and there would have been no incentive for him to be careful before dispatching me on long trips. In fact, I'll always wonder if he did it on purpose just to see if I was hungry enough. There was certainly no shaming him, and I found it hard to believe that he could have made that mistake anyway.

Anyway, in a state like Iowa or West Virginia where people actually compete for limited resources, and where it's blatantly obvious that blacks are (as I mentioned in an earlier post) given preferential treatment, it's understandable (if not a strong point of racial pride) why whites grumble and say "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight."

It was a real experience to work in a dead economy, and I didn't know there was such a thing anywhere in the US before that. And then I understood what those Caucasian folks meant who said that to me as a kid in VA. Unlike many blacks they'd work if the could. But, if they were on layoff or disability from a coal mine and had no other marketable skills (I mean there ain't even any junk hauling there! It just sits on the side of the mountain next to the shacks that folks live in!) and they saw black folks in line buying $150 of groceries while whites with children only got $30 worth of food stamps, well, how could they not notice and feel some resentment toward the state?

When life is that gritty they just can't afford excess pride or to be offended as you and I were when we heard that saying that arator quoted.

"I went home with a country queen...

Then woke up next to a Chupacabra"__Paul Tweed & The OUTASITES

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-05-25   5:12:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: aristeides (#3)

The answer is to replace racial preferences with preferences based on economic status.

Obama hinted he was thinking of such a switch in his speech on race.

"Preferences" is wrong. Just because you switch the adjective from "racial" or "gender" to "economic" you are still assigning quotas and giving unfair advantage, a leg up to specific groups by using PREFERENCES and foregoing MERIT.

America used to be a nation where INDIVIDUALS could get ahead through hard work and MERIT. Now the individual is held back because of Orwellian gubment- sanctioned GROUPS and gubment sanctioned PREFERENCES.

May all the social engineers suffer the SAME OUTCOME ( ha! "equal outcomes" something which eludes them on earth though they ruin a lot of Western societies trying to attain this Holy Grail). I hope all social engineers rot in hell.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-05-25   13:06:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Arator. the thread (#0)

Because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.

What I 'need' is for government to get out of me.

Weak-minded individuals who look to the nanny state for everything are the problem.

Lod  posted on  2008-05-25   13:21:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: scrapper2 (#24)

Well said bump.

Lod  posted on  2008-05-25   13:22:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: lodwick (#25)

What I 'need' is for government to get out of me.

Weak-minded individuals who look to the nanny state for everything are the problem.

But...but...but...the government owes me!

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-05-25   13:29:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: HOUNDDAWG (#23)

I found it hard to believe that he could have made that mistake anyway.

You understimate the incompetency of some people. Especially those employed by the gubmint.

"HOLODOMOR" is Ukrainian word for "FAMINE-GENOCIDE"

angle  posted on  2008-05-25   13:33:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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