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Title: Concerning A False Prophet [Hagee's Rapture Cult Must Read]
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URL Source: http://www.preteristarchive.com/Jew ... #Book_VI,_Chapter_V,_Section_2
Published: May 22, 2008
Author: ?
Post Date: 2008-05-22 11:30:10 by AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt
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Views: 1232
Comments: 73
".....Book VI, Chapter V, Section 2 (Entire) Concerning A False Prophet 2. And now the Romans, judging that it was in vain to spare what was round the holy house, burnt all those places, as also the remains of the cloisters and the gates, two excepted; the one on the east side, and the other on the south; both which, however, they burnt afterward (1). They also burnt down the treasury-chambers, in which was an immense quantity of money, and an immense number of garments, and other precious goods, there reposited; and, to speak all in a few words, there it was that the entire riches of the Jews were heaped up together, while the rich people had there built themselves chambers, [to contain such furniture.] The soldiers also came to the rest of the cloisters that were in the outer [court of the] temple, whither the women and children and a great mixed multitude of the people fled, in number about six thousand. But before Caesar had determined anything about these people, or given the commanders any orders relating to them, the soldiers were in such a rage, that they set the cloister of fire; by which means it came to pass that some of these were destroyed by throwing themselves down headlong, and some were burnt in the cloisters themselves. Nor did any one of these escape with his life. A false prophet* (2) was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get up upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance. Now, there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose upon the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes. Now, a man that is in adversity does easily comply with such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is that the patient is full of hopes of such deliverance (3). Whiston's Footnotes 1 Reland here justly takes notice that these Jews who had despised the true Prophet, were deservedly abused and deluded by the false ones. PRETERIST PERSPECTIVES 1. Isaiah 1:7; 26:11; 33:12; 66:15; Jeremiah 5:14; 7:20; Matthew 3:11-12; 13:40, etc. Matthew 24:4-5 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many......." EXCERPT: VISUAL TIMELINE OF THE ROMAN-JEWISH WAR TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM AN THEOLOGICAL POINT OF VIEW POV: Administrative | Factional | Military | Theological INVESTIGATING CORRELATIONS BETWEEN JOSEPHUS' ACCOUNT AND THE FIRST CENTURY FULFILLMENT OF BIBLE PROPHECY "And all this prophecy of what would result from their insolence against the Christ has been clearly proved to have taken place after their plot against our Saviour. For it was not before it, but afterwards from that day to this that God turned their feasts into mourning, despoiled them of their famous mother-city, and destroyed the holy Temple therein when Titus and Vespasian were Emperors of Rome, so that they could no longer go up to keep their feasts and sacred meetings. I need not say that a famine of hearing the Word of the Lord has overtaken them all, in return for their rejection of the Word of God; since with one voice they refused Him, so He refuses them." (AD 310s - Eusebius, Demonstratio Evangelica, X) Jesus Predicting Fall of Temple in Word "Behold, Your House is Left to you Desolate"
Luke 13:35........"
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#34. To: nobody (#31)
I recall my first day on the crowded playground at Our Lady Queen of Martyrs, it was third grade. One child went in front of me and distracted me while the other kneeled down and went to all four behind me. Then came the push nobody saw. Criss and Cross could've been their names for all I know, because they didn't stick around to explain. It was a miracle. Immaculate. People have been screwing me with miracles like that my entire life. I gave up on the catholic shit before 20, it didn't take a pedophile priest. Good fucking riddance. Is that the real issue? Kids can be cruel. They don't have to be Catholic. They usually get it from home. My dad's whole side of the family is Catholic. I can see some of my cousins pulling stuff like that when they were kids, but most of the others wouldn't dream of it. This is a case of you killing the message instead of the messenger, which is just where certain people want you: "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
You just don't seem to ever get over the power of abrahamic teamwork and insular fear or rage, worshipping it instead. I despise it. I expect a pass. I demand a pass. Deal with it.
You don't understand - it was in the middle of a crowded playground during school hours, at recess, in the middle of recess, and nobody saw it. It was a miracle like all other abrahamic (christian in this case) miracles.
Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. Exercised A primitive root (possibly rather identical with H6030 through the idea of looking down or browbeating); to depress literally or figuratively, transitively or intransitively (in various applications). (sing is by mistake for H6030.): - abase self, afflict (-ion, self), answer [by mistake for H6030], chasten self, deal hardly with, defile, exercise, force, gentleness, humble (self), hurt, ravish, sing [by mistake for H6030], speak [by mistake for H6030], submit self, weaken, X in any wise. That is why people suffer. That is why I suffer, you suffer, everyone else suffers. But it varies by degree, is temporary, and it serves a purpose. Does that mean I like it when kids get hurt and killed? Not hardly. I hate it. I hate it with a passion. I want to put those accountable on my front sight post properly centered with the rear peep sight, and squeeze the trigger. This is school. This is where we get to know good and evil. God created evil. If we are going to be like Him, we have to know evil too. Then evil will be destroyed. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Amos 3 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? 7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. I wouldnt worry about the kingdom. Where does scripture say that you are responsible for it? You are putting a lot of weight on your shoulders.
Not posting this to start an argument because I don't argue about religion. But I saw your comment about the Rapture and wanted to show you what I think is an interesting article about it. Of course you are free to accept or reject it but I believe it. Isn't it true that the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible? I've always been totally amazed at how some folks write me and try use the fact that the word “rapture” does not appear in the Bible as an argument against its validity. The issue should be whether or not the concept of the rapture appears in the Bible. With 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 giving us such a clear description of the rapture, you would have to conclude some people are just playing games with the Word of God. I could change the name of my site to “Catching-Up Ready” to satisfy these folks, but I hardly think that would improve things. Their logic runs very thin because a huge number of words don't appear in the Bible, including the word “Bible.” Because God's Word was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, one could truthfully say that no English words are found in the Bible. Let's take a look at 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 in the original Greek: 4:16 oti autos o kurios en keleusmati en fwnh arcaggelou kai en salpiggi qeou katabhsetai ap ouranou kai oi nekroi en cristw anasthsontai prwton 4:17 epeita hmeis oi zwntes oi perileipomenoi ama sun autois arpaghsomeqa en nefelais eis apanthsin tou kuriou eis aera kai outws pantote sun kuriw esomeqa 4:18 wste parakaleite allhlous en tois logois toutois I don't see the dead in Christ rising, Jesus descending from Heaven, or us meeting Him in the air. They're right; the word “rapture” is nowhere to be found. All I see is gobbledygook. For the record, the word “rapture” comes from the Latin word rapturo, which is a translation of the Greek verb "caught up" that’s found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. You can call it the “pre-trib rapture,” the “pre-trib rapturo,” or the “pre-trib caught up” - it's all the same thing.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. In a way, you make a point, somewhat, and unintentionally I am sure. Wearing a cross is the same as wearing a jeweled mini-gallows, and a cross hung in a church is like having an electric chair on the stage, and the catholics would actually have a depiction of Christ sitting in that electric chair. People keep crucifying Him. What is done is done.
I'm not following this election much...I'm not voting. I did some research on Hagee a while back...I came to the conclusion he wants to get the Jews back to Palestine to fulfill the PTB's Armageddon plot. BTW, from the article: "...Hagee is one of the country's best-known evangelical Christian Zionists; he founded a pro-Israel alliance of Christian groups and has donated tens of millions from his Texas-based ministry to support humanitarian causes in Israel. He has said he is driven by the belief that the creation of the state of Israel, and the return of Jews to Palestine, are God's will. "A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter," Hagee says in the sermon. "And the Bible says -- Jeremiah writing -- 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."...." I don't see that being the meaning of that passage at all. Before that passage is this: Jer 16:14 ¶ Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; Jer 16:15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. I think this refers to God bringing the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel [Exekiel 34] into their own land [Ezekiel 34:11-13]. The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel is the church [Jesus : I am not sent but to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. To the Pharisees: you are not my sheep.]. He said this while the Israelites were in Israel, so He obviously was talking about the prophetic Israel (the church) and their new promised land, which I have stated more than once (understatement) is America. What land did He give to their fathers? the whole world: Deu 11:24 Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Deu/Deu011.html#24 But He said he would return them to the land. "...a land where your fathers have dwelt..." : Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. [Ezekiel 37 talks about the restored Israel joined in the hand of Christ, resurrected in their new land www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eze/Eze037.html#21 ..... Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth....there's those wheat and tares again.] Well, the Israelites were in America a long time ago before Columbus: The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers -- Who Really Discovered America? ...... Israelites were here before us! They left signs of their presence everywhere -- ... http://www.hope-of-israel.org/hebinusa.htm I don't know, but I suspect it MAY have happened somewhere around here: after Rachel died.....Jacob, probably heartbroken, took a trip to take his mind off it [just surmising here, of course]. Gen 35:21 ¶ And Israel [Jacob] journeyed, and spread his tent beyond the tower of Edar. Gen 35:22 And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard [it]. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen035.html#21 "Edar": Outline of Biblical Usage Migdal-eder = "tower of the flock" 1) a shepherd's watchtower near Bethlehem Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 2 AV — Edar 1, syn reading "tower of the flock" 1 Gesenius's Lexicon (Help) http://cf.blueletterbible.org/la....cfm?Strongs=H04029&t=kjv Correlating Passages Mic 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gen/35/21.html I don't have any proof that's how it happened, but for now, that's my story and I'm sticking to it:). At any rate, for Hagee to say that passage in Jeremiah being about the Jews going back to Palestine is hogwash. God told them THIS IS NOT YOUR REST: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mic/Mic002.html#10 Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. ===========================
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
You addressed me. I responded. Deal with it.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Th/1Th004.html#17 I'm not an expert on the infamous passage, but I think preteristarchive, if I remember correctly, may have addressed it well. I think it can mean a couple of different things, but in my opinion, it does not refer to the whole church being taken out of here, because that is only one mysterious verse, which conflicts with everything else in the Bible. Is it possible it was referring specifically to the disciples? Look at thse verses: Jhn 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. Jhn 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] whither thou wouldest not. Jhn 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. Jhn 21:20 ¶ Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Jhn 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what [shall] this man [do]? Jhn 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he *** tarry ["remain"] till I come, what [is that] to thee? follow thou me. Jhn 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? Jhn 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn021.html#20 Okay, so it sounds like one disciple was possibly going to be alive until the coming of the Lord to carry out His vengeance against Jerusalem: Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. There is another possibility. If you look at verse 14, you see the Lord is bringing the Saints with Him. Does this refer to the martyred saints coming with Jesus to meet the disciple who remained? The martyrs for Christ are alive with Christ and reign with Him in heaven for "a thousand years". Is that what this refers to? Another possibility. The dead go to MEET Him in the air, but does that mean they STAY in the air? I looked up "air" once, and if I remember correctly, it was defined as the very near atmosphere, not outer-space. Perhaps they MEET in the air, from whence they are GATHERED into THEIR OWN LAND? Remember that the New Jerusalem is the Bride and it "comes down from heaven" Rev. 21. This is repeated here: Isa 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa062.html#4 I highly recommend reading this whole chapter. It's talking about America. For a good example see these verses: Isa 62:7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. Isa 62:8 The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn [to be] meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured: Isa 62:9 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness. We all know the Banksters have deliberately ruined this country, bringing our industry down, but do we know how long they have been at it? Skim this: http://greatreddragon.com/chap6.htm . This book was written in 1889, but it started even before that. However, we have the promise it will end. At any rate, I still do not see 1Th 4:17 referring to the removal of the whole church. I'm going to give you a website that explains the New Jerusalem. It is quick reading. The main problem with it is that it errs greatly in saying that the Israel of God is all white. The Israel of God includes all races: John 3:16, Galatians 3:16-29, Rev. 5:9-10. With that caveat, please read, starting here, and then hitting "Back" at the bottom of the page to get to the index: NEW JERUSALEM, THE BRIDE "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
I know of no flaws in the King James version.
Is he still a servant to this day? That is a rhetorical question. But you answered my question, or rather 1/2 of it... There is no perfect translation. There cannot be. But lets say that the 1611 AV is perfect. WHat was perfect before that translation? Or are the people born and dead before that version SOL? Or did it take God 1611 years or so to get the job done right? And that does not include all of the revisions done since 1611. As I said earlier I don't argue about religion and if you don't believe in the Rapture of course that is between you and God. But I think Corinthians--1 Corinthians 15, verses 51-58 is about the rapture. But again, I am not arguing.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I'm sick of internet Bible pushers. They're all insane. What you'll be dealing with is me telling you what's wrong with the crap on a regular basis if you keep bringing it up.
First grade, Saint Leo's. Early in the school year, don't know anyone. Cute girl from another class tells the teachers I pushed her. No recollection of ever pushing anyone or ever seeing the girl before. No one believes me. I run out and sit on a curb in the parking lot. Many minutes later they call me back inside. Nobody mentions it again. It miraculously disappeared. I was left to wonder what the fuck will happen to me, what the fuck do people think of me, for as long as I wished.
Good points you make. I'm not sure where it is right now. But isn't there a verse about people doing naturally the things contained in the law, and that will be counted to them as righteousness?
Romans 2 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) Is that the one you were thinking of?
Yes sir.
Lets hear her side of the story, shall we Mr. Bully?
Can people who have never heard of Jesus be saved?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I would submit that the way that the verse PSUSA mentioned would be through Jesus. He is still the "gatekeeper" . So he could let someone through who never heard of him. If they met the criteria which PSUSA posted.
That is a rather clever way of answering it, without answering it.
Not imo. Where does scripture say that once a person dies, he is allowed into Heaven or thrown into "hell"? That is what churchianity teaches, not what scripture teaches. It says that after death comes the judgement, not the sentencing. How does Gods' supposedly infinite love turn to horrifying hate within 1 heartbeat? It doesn't. Hate that can be the result of something as small as picking an apple off of a neighbors tree, for which a person supposedly is subject to infinite torture. Is that justice? Not even Hitler would do that.
So what you say boils down to there is no hell?
Did you read the entire article I linked to or just that part? If so I think you might have posted something a bit different. There is more to that article than the part you quoted--here is the rest of the answer: Often, people ask, "What about the person living in the jungle somewhere who has never heard of Jesus?" "Are you Christians saying that a person won't go to heaven based solely on where he lives?" The Bible tells us that God doesn't work that way. We understand that God is perfectly loving, perfectly holy, and perfectly just. Therefore, it's against His nature to "hide the ball" on salvation, or condemn someone who is ignorant of His truth. In fact, scripture declares that God is loving and patient, "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (II Peter 3:9). God is a perfectly righteous judge. Although we don't understand all of His ways, He somehow reveals the simple truth of the Gospel to everyone throughout the world. In Africa, missionaries often tell how Christ reveals Himself in nature. In India, it's been estimated that half the conversions to Christianity are a result of Jesus simply revealing Himself in a dream or vision. Whatever the form of revelation, God holds each of us accountable for what we know and what we've done with that knowledge.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Afraid I don't understand your point. The article I linked to is pretty much self explanatory, at least I think it is.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. No hell. But I am not saying that there's no judgement. Scripture is clear on this. === The Old English hel belongs to a family of Germanic words meaning “to cover” or “to conceal.” Hel is also the name, in Old Norse, of the Scandinavian queen of the underworld. Many English translations of the Bible use hell as an English equivalent of the Hebrew terms ... www.britannica.com/eb/topic-259835/Hel === The concept and the word itself is pagan, not Christian. Look at the different words translated as "hell" in scripture.
So God is just too weak to overcome our mighty wills. If you have kids, do you let them run all over you, and do their own things to their own destruction? Phil 2 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: === "God is a perfectly righteous judge. Although we don't understand all of His ways, He somehow reveals the simple truth of the Gospel to everyone throughout the world. " === That is the same things as saying God is a righteous judge, but... Either He is righteous, or He is not. WHICH IS IT? He does NOT reveal the simple truth of the Gospel to everyone throughout the world. That is a lie. A feel-good wishy washy lie. === "In Africa, missionaries often tell how Christ reveals Himself in nature. In India, it's been estimated that half the conversions to Christianity are a result of Jesus simply revealing Himself in a dream or vision. " === Prove it. That directly contradicts scripture. Rom 10 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
1 Corinthians 15, verses 51-58 I don't want to argue either, but, since this is my thread, I don't want to leave the impression with others reading this, that I agree with you, because it would defeat the purpose of the thread. I believe God intends to create heaven on earth, with the New Jerusalem at the core. Maybe that is where we who will be kings and priests to the nations [Rev. 5:9-10], will be changed in the "twinkling of an eye", receiving bodies incorriptible, and be like Him: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Jo/1Jo003.html#2 1Cr 15:42 — So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised [* http://cf.blueletterbible.org/la...n.cfm?Strongs=G1453&t=kjv ]in incorruption: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Cr/15/42.html the "kingdom of heaven": http://www.blueletterbible.org/c...anything.x=0&anything.y=0 Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Psa 145:13 Thy kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion [endureth] throughout all generations. Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion..... Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. Psa 72:11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him. Psa 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name. Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Dan/7/27.html Isa 66:18 ¶ For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests [and] for Levites, saith the LORD. Isa 66:22 ¶ For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh [ http://cf.blueletterbible.org/la....cfm?Strongs=H01320&t=kjv ]come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa066.html#18 Luk 1:33 — And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Mic 4:7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation [THAT'S US]: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. 1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation - Chapter 21 Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. [note heaven and earth symbolic for the old temple and city; sea = peoples, separated from God, or something like that] Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [ **** www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa062.html#4 -5] Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son..... http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev021.html Rev 22:1 ¶ And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations. Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads....... "please don't rapture me....the kingdom of heaven is on earth." ==========================
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Why don't you just ignore the threads with the heading "Religion".
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
You have your beliefs, I have mine. I think the article I linked to is accurate but admit I could be wrong. But I have never believed that someone who had never heard of Christ would be condemned through something which was no fault of his own. You presume too much if you put yourself in the place of God to know the hearts of others.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. None of what you posted--none--negates the Biblical concept of the rapture. The Bible is not contradictory when it is not taken out of context. You don't have to believe in the rapture, there is no law that requires you to. I trust that it will be ok with you if I still do believe in it since I believe the Bible is clear about it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I presume nothing, but we can end it at that if you want. It's not up to me to convince anyone of anything.
I don't believe in the "rapture". THe word never appears in the Bible. I used to believe in it. I believe what people call the rapture is actually the second coming. To believe in the rapture you would also have to believe in a third coming.
There are many English words you won't find in the Bible--in fact, in the original languages it was written in you won't find any. But it plainly teaches the concept as I explained earlier in the thread. But I don't argue about it. Believe as you wish, God will judge. And I don't think he will condemn you for not believing in it assuming your faith is sincere.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. It's not up to me if what you believe is ok or not. If you would like to be raptured out of here, that just leaves more room for the meek, who will inherit the earth.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
I think I'll leave it to you to discuss, debate and try to resolve the issue of "Rapture". That is far beyond my ability or desire to try and resolve. I think I'll just stick with the following because I believe it answers all the questions we ask. Mark 12: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. John 14 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
I think God gave us his whole word and that it is knowable if we study it hard enough. I don't believe in the rapture but I accept that I could be wrong. I don't believe that you have to not believe in the rapture to be saved or vice versa. Here is a simple argument in favor of my position. In Matthew Chapter 24 Jesus lays it all out. He doesn't talk about a rapture. In fact he urges us to "pray" so that the terrible things he mentioned doesn't happen in the winter time. Because the winter would obviously make it harder on people. Anyway why would he urge us to pray if we weren't going to be here?
I understand. Because of what happened in 2002 I no longer ask what if I'm wrong, what if this, what if that. I know that given all my weaknesses and shortcomings if I give 110% trying to do what HE tells us we should do and what HE expects of us then all the other questions will be answered when HE chooses to answer them because HE knows when the time is right. He is Great and Merciful beyond anything any of us can imagine simply because we are limited to being "human" and we cannot fully understand everything. If a person does what is in the Scripture I posted I don't see how they could break any of the Commandments. In a sense I believe he took the 10 Commandments and condensed them into those two and says if you do these it is not possible to break any of the others.
He is Great and Merciful beyond anything any of us can imagine simply because we are limited to being "human" and we cannot fully understand everything. Please ping me when talking about me. Common cortesty. Sheesh.
Adjust your wig. The scars from your double lobotomy are showing and it is scaring the children.
#35. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#34)
(Edited)
#36. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#34)
(Edited)
Kids can be cruel.
#37. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#26)
I'm hoping against hope enough apostate Christians, and those who are written in the Book of Life but are sitting on the fence, will wake up and take the kingdom back, and tell that other "mountain" to sink into the sea, so that children don't have to be abused like that, and that children can go to bed at night not hungry, or worried that a mortar is going to blow the whole family to smithereens by morning.
#38. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#24)
Lord Acton
#39. To: nobody (#27)
(Edited)
Maybe someone will come up with another bogus miraculous non- death-cult religion, perhaps one that uses a gallows as a symbol.
#40. To: aristeides (#29)
The latest revelations about Hagee were too much for McCain. McCain Denounces Hagee.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the kings' horses and all the kings' men
Can not put Humpty together again. - Psalm 2.
#41. To: nobody (#35)
You just don't seem to ever get over the power of abrahamic teamwork and insular fear or rage, worshipping it instead. I despise it. I expect a pass. I demand a pass. Deal with it.
#42. To: James Deffenbach (#38)
#43. To: PSUSA (#23)
#44. To: Old Friend (#43)
(Edited)
Exodus 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever.
#45. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#40)
Lord Acton
#46. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#41)
#47. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#41)
(Edited)
#48. To: PSUSA (#44)
But lets say that the 1611 AV is perfect. WHat was perfect before that translation? Or are the people born and dead before that version SOL? Or did it take God 1611 years or so to get the job done right? And that does not include all of the revisions done since 1611.
#49. To: Old Friend (#48)
#50. To: PSUSA (#49)
#51. To: nobody (#47)
No recollection of ever pushing anyone or ever seeing the girl before.
#52. To: Old Friend (#48)
Lord Acton
#53. To: James Deffenbach (#52)
The simple answer to the first question is, no. People who have never heard of Jesus cannot be saved according to John 14:6, where Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life -- no one can come to the Father except through Me."
#54. To: James Deffenbach (#52)
#55. To: Old Friend (#53)
So he could let someone through who never heard of him. If they met the criteria which PSUSA posted.
#56. To: PSUSA (#55)
#57. To: Old Friend (#53)
I would submit that the way that the verse PSUSA mentioned would be through Jesus. He is still the "gatekeeper" . So he could let someone through who never heard of him. If they met the criteria which PSUSA posted.
Lord Acton
#58. To: PSUSA (#54)
That is a rather clever way of answering it, without answering it.
Lord Acton
#59. To: Old Friend (#56)
So what you say boils down to there is no hell?
#60. To: James Deffenbach (#57)
(Edited)
We understand that God is perfectly loving, perfectly holy, and perfectly just. Therefore, it's against His nature to "hide the ball" on salvation, or condemn someone who is ignorant of His truth. In fact, scripture declares that God is loving and patient, "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (II Peter 3:9).
#61. To: James Deffenbach (#45)
#62. To: nobody (#46)
I'm sick of internet Bible pushers. They're all insane. What you'll be dealing with is me telling you what's wrong with the crap on a regular basis if you keep bringing it up.
#63. To: PSUSA (#60)
Lord Acton
#64. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#61)
Lord Acton
#65. To: James Deffenbach (#63)
#66. To: James Deffenbach (#64)
#67. To: Old Friend (#66)
I don't believe in the "rapture". THe word never appears in the Bible. I used to believe in it.
Lord Acton
#68. To: James Deffenbach (#64)
I trust that it will be ok with you if I still do believe in it since I believe the Bible is clear about it.
#69. To: James Deffenbach, Old Friend, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt. A, (#67)
#70. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#69)
I think I'll leave it to you to discuss, debate and try to resolve the issue of "Rapture". That is far beyond my ability or desire to try and resolve. I think I'll just stick with the following because I believe it answers all the questions we ask.
#71. To: Old Friend (#70)
#72. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#71)
He is Great and Merciful beyond anything any of us can imagine simply because we are limited to being "human" and we cannot fully understand everything.
#73. To: BIGBUCKS_BADEYE (#72)
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