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Pious Perverts
See other Pious Perverts Articles

Title: Monument To Dead Fags
Source: Reuters
URL Source: http://www.reuters.com/news/picture ... 080527&channelName=newsOne#a=3
Published: May 28, 2008
Author: Dave Graham
Post Date: 2008-05-28 05:52:59 by noone222
Keywords: None
Views: 682
Comments: 41

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany unveiled a monument to the tens of thousands of homosexuals persecuted under the Nazis, whose laws were used to prosecute gay men for a generation after World War Two.

Berlin mayor Klaus Wowereit, who is openly gay, hailed the grey, concrete memorial as a long overdue acknowledgement of the repression of homosexuals, 50,000 of whom were convicted by Nazi courts during Adolf Hitler's 12-year dictatorship.

"The monument consecrated today is a reminder to us of the horrors of the past and draws our attention to the degree of discrimination that currently exists," Wowereit said.

"Great efforts will still need to be undertaken before the sight of two men or women kissing here or in Moscow or elsewhere on the planet is accepted by society in general."

The 600,000 euro ($950,000) cube in Berlin's central Tiergarten park stands opposite the monument to the 6 million European Jews murdered by the Nazis, and was designed by the Danish-Norwegian pairing of Michael Elmgreen and Ingar Dragset.

Nazi authorities ordered the castration of some gay men, and sent thousands more to concentration camps, many of whom were murdered or died from hunger and disease.

Until 1969, when the centre-left Social Democrats headed a government for the first time since the Weimar Republic, Nazi laws continued to be applied to prosecute homosexuals.

The country's gay and lesbian association (LSVD) said that for years German homosexuals had been cut out of the official culture of commemoration, and denied compensation.

"Commemoration must have consequences," the LSVD said in a statement. "The rehabilitation of those people who were convicted under Nazi laws must therefore be the next step."

(Writing by Dave Graham; Editing by Giles Elgood)


Poster Comment:

you gotta be shittin me.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 28.

#6. To: All (#0)

I can't believe the comments I am reading here. Please tell me how persecution of anyone because of their sexual preference or practices is okay in your book. And no, I don't mean to include non-consensual acts, but rather two men or women deciding they want to get their jollies with each other than the way that you and I might decide to.

I know many homosexuals, both male and female and I can tell you their sexuality is never an issue. They generally keep it to themselves, just like most heterosexuals. They have a wide range of personalities just like heterosexuals. Every one of them I know is gainfully employed. They just happen to enjoy their sex differently.

I find it hypocritical for people to be posting in a site devoted to individual freedoms to be so critical of people exercising some of that individual freedom. And as far as the gay pride parades, I simply laugh at them. But then I'm not a sexually repressed Puritan afraid of seeing the human body. Neither am I Beavis, sniggering every time someone exposes a nipple or butt cheek.

Grow up people.

Jeffersonish  posted on  2008-06-19   0:32:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jeffersonish, All (#6) (Edited)

I can't believe the comments I am reading here. Please tell me how persecution of anyone because of their sexual preference or practices is okay in your book. And no, I don't mean to include non-consensual acts, but rather two men or women deciding they want to get their jollies with each other than the way that you and I might decide to.

I am not persecuting anyone. I have beams in my own eye that need removal. The difference is, I dont go out in public and throw my sin at other people and have the gall to demand others accept it.

But if you dont see homosexuality as a sin, then you won't agree with me, Try thinking of it as a public health issue instead.

You said:

"I know many homosexuals, both male and female and I can tell you their sexuality is never an issue. They generally keep it to themselves, just like most heterosexuals. They have a wide range of personalities just like heterosexuals. Every one of them I know is gainfully employed. They just happen to enjoy their sex differently. "

You can say the same things about rapists and pedophiles, and many serial killers.

PSUSA  posted on  2008-06-19   7:55:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: PSUSA, Cynicom, Jeffersonish, All (#15) (Edited)

I yield to wiser voices that have gone before all of us on this topic:

"It can be safely said that the attitude of the Founders on the subject of homosexuality was precisely that given by William Blackstone in his Commentaries on the Laws--the basis of legal jurisprudence in America and heartily endorsed by numbers of significant Founders. In addressing sodomy (homosexuality), he found the subject so reprehensible that he was ashamed even to discuss it. Nonetheless, he noted:

What has been here observed . . . [the fact that the punishment fit the crime] ought to be the more clear in proportion as the crime is the more detestable, may be applied to another offence of a still deeper malignity; the infamous crime against nature committed either with man or beast. A crime which ought to be strictly and impartially proved and then as strictly and impartially punished. . . . I will not act so disagreeable part to my readers as well as myself as to dwell any longer upon a subject the very mention of which is a disgrace to human nature [sodomy]. It will be more eligible to imitate in this respect the delicacy of our English law which treats it in its very indictments as a crime not fit to be named; "peccatum illud horribile, inter christianos non nominandum" (that horrible crime not to be named among Christians). A taciturnity observed likewise by the edict of Constantius and Constans: "ubi scelus est id, quod non proficit scire, jubemus insurgere leges, armari jura gladio ultore, ut exquisitis poenis subdantur infames, qui sunt, vel qui futuri sunt, rei" (where that crime is found, which is unfit even to know, we command the law to arise armed with an avenging sword that the infamous men who are, or shall in future be guilty of it, may undergo the most severe punishments). Sir William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1769), Vol. IV, pp. 215-216

Because of the nature of the crime, the penalties for the act of sodomy were often severe. For example, Thomas Jefferson indicated that in his home state of Virginia, "dismemberment" of the offensive organ was the penalty for sodomy. Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (Philadelphia: Matthew Carey, 1794), p. 211

In fact, Jefferson himself authored a bill penalizing sodomy by castration. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Andrew A. Lipscomb, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson M emorial Association, 1904), Vol. I, pp. 226-227, from Jefferson's "For Proportioning Crimes and Punishments."

The laws of the other states showed similar or even more severe penalties:

That the detestable and abominable vice of buggery [sodomy] . . . shall be from henceforth adjudged felony . . . and that every person being thereof convicted by verdict, confession, or outlawry [unlawful flight to avoid prosecution], shall be hanged by the neck until he or she shall be dead. NEW YORK

That if any man shall lie with mankind as he lieth with womankind, both of them have committed abomination; they both shall be put to death. CONNECTICUT

Sodomy . . . shall be punished by imprisonment at hard labour in the penitentiary during the natural life or lives of the person or persons convicted of th[is] detestable crime. GEORGIA

That if any man shall commit the crime against nature with a man or male child . . . every such offender, being duly convicted thereof in the Supreme Judicial Court, shall be punished by solitary imprisonment for such term not exceeding one year and by confinement afterwards to hard labor for such term not exceeding ten years. MAINE

That if any person or persons shall commit sodomy . . . he or they so offending or committing any of the said crimes within this province, their counsellors, aiders, comforters, and abettors, being convicted thereof as above said, shall suffer as felons. [And] shall forfeit to the Commonwealth all and singular the lands and tenements, goods and chattels, whereof he or she was seized or possessed at the time . . . at the discretion of the court passing the sentence, not exceeding ten years, in the public gaol or house of correction of the county or city in which the offence shall have been committed and be kept at such labor. PENNSYLVANIA

[T]he detestable and abominable vice of buggery [sodomy] . . . be from henceforth adjudged felony . . . and that the offenders being hereof convicted by verdict, confession, or outlawry [unlawful flight to avoid prosecution], shall suffer such pains of death and losses and penalties of their goods. SOUTH CAROLINA

That if any man lieth with mankind as he lieth with a woman, they both shall suffer death. VERMONT"

Jeffersonish: please note that your namesake showed no mercy to faggots.

X-15  posted on  2008-06-19   9:47:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: X-15 (#20)

Jeffersonish: please note that your namesake showed no mercy to faggots.

Hence the "ish"

Note that in the 18th century they didn't have latex condoms and that sodomy is a health concern without condoms... shoot even with condoms, it probably isn't exactly therapeutic. But it should be pointed out that while I am sure it is widely practiced, sodomy is not a prerequisite for homosexuality and in fact often practiced by heterosexual couples. Therefore laws against sodomy were not (technically) laws against homosexuality. Any convictions were practically most likely based on assumptions of what happened in private (albeit likely correct assumptions).

We also had laws against practicing witchcraft in the colonies, we still have laws forbidding certain activities on Sundays, and we still have asset forfeiture laws which violate the 4th amendment. Our Constitution endorsed slavery and women weren't allowed representation by way of voting. They also weren't allowed to have their own bank accounts. Most of these absurdities were just peachy with Jefferson, Washington, Mason, Franklin, Hamilton, Adams and the rest of our esteemed founders. It doesn't mean they were right.

Oh, and do you really need to use perjorative terms like faggot?

Jeffersonish  posted on  2008-06-19   10:54:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 28.

#30. To: Jeffersonish (#28)

Oh, and do you really need to use perjorative terms like faggot?

Yes, because that ugly word puts the truth to the lie that there is anything decent about the practicioners of "another offence of a still deeper malignity; the infamous crime against nature committed either with man or beast": FAGGOTS.

Your feeble attempts to equate fags/peter-puffers/queers with slavery/witchcraft/etc. are weak and without substance. Quit pimping the Zionist agenda to corrupt Western Civilization.

X-15  posted on  2008-06-19 11:11:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 28.

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