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Title: A Visit To Waco Texas- Fifteen Years Later
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Published: May 30, 2008
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Post Date: 2008-05-30 07:28:25 by Artisan
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Keywords: waco
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A Visit To Waco, TX- Fifteen Years later Waco 15 Years Later- A Visit to Mount Carmel in Waco, Texas; May 2008. I went to Texas last week and while there, went to visit the location of the infamous WACO tragedy. When I first arrived in Waco after visiting some friends in Austin, I asked some locals where the compound was. A few people pointed me in the general direction, but no one had been there or knew exact directions. One guy remarked that "it's sad that is what Waco is known for". So I stopped by the local 'Texas Ranger Museum' and went into the visitor center. They had hundreds of brochures on tourist spots displayed, but no mention of the Waco slaughter. I asked the lady behind the desk how to get to the Dr. Pepper Museum and then asked her if she knew how to get to the Waco compound. Surprisingly, she went to retrieve a map of directions to Mount Carmel which they kept behind the counter, and gave it to me. "MILITARY TRAINING MADE WACO FAMOUS" appears on state plaque We then drove to the compound. I struck me as a beautiful and serene area of Texas. CORNER HEADING TO COMPOUND. The property is straight ahead down this road, DOUBLE EE RANCH ROAD, on the right side. The house to the right is either the caretakers house or the preachers house. The church in the background behind the tree is the memorial church built after the tragedy. The house that was burned was behind and to the left of where the church is. In the foreground is the stone memorials to the victims. Texas Dept of Transportation KEEP OFF Me front of Waco memorial. I have some video of this and the reason for my sign, which I will post later also. I view this Waco atrocity as linked with 9/11 in the sense that it's another in the long history of government terrorism and abuses of the American people. Memorial to the victims While we were there a local woman drove onto the property with some friends. turns out she was a long time resident and college professor who taught at Baylor college. She said that the stones (pictured below) with the victims names were originally set out in the field towards the memorial church, with a tree being planted for each victim, but were later moved to the front and placed onto each other to form a sort of memorial wall. She said the new leader of the church and self proclaimed 'prophet' is a guy by the name of Charles Pace, and that there has been a lot of division and turmoil among the sect in recent years. She was sympathetic to the victims and disagreed strongly with what the government did. The woman relayed the chilling story of the day of the fire, April 19, 1993; she was teaching at Baylor and saw the fire live on TV in the teachers lounge, and at the same time they saw the fire out their window which was 5 miles away from the compound. She rubbed her arms as she said she still gets chills when she talks about it, the goose bumps visible on her arms as she told the story. I asked her what the local reaction was at the time; she said it was mixed. some were outraged, others thought the 'cult' 'brought it on themselves' and some kept their opinion to themselves, unlike herself, who she reiterated, was not hesitant to express her disagreement with the government action. I asked her what the current church leadership's position was on visitors to the property and she said they seem to be very open to visitors and she assumed that any visitors to the compound must be viewed as sympathetic by the property owners. Interestingly, the woman then mentioned that Timothy MckVey visited the Waco compound and was photographed there before carrying out the OKC bombing, and that it was no accident that that occured on April 19th 2 years later. the poor woman did not even seem to know that OKC was yet another government attack. So even those sympathetic to the victims at Waco do not know the whole truth. Mount Carmel is a somber and quiet place and she was there to grieve and honor the victims with her friends, so I did not feel it was the appropriate time or place to talk to her about it. Memorial blocks with all victims names, right side As we walked up the hill from the front of the property and approached the church, all of the sudden a big black lab started running towards me, chasing me. I ran back towards the car but later ventured back towards the church to take a look at it. Here is a portable bathroom that sits next to the church. Notice the little dog standing to the left of the bathroom. The photo on the right is the small pond across from the church. Church plaque and photo of signs on church door MEMORIALS TO ATF AGENTS KILLED AND OKC BOMBING VICTIMS 2 YEARS LATER 'DONT TREAD ON ME' FLAG FLYING IN FRONT OF CHURCH LEAVING WACO After leaving Mount Carmel we stopped by the Dr. Pepper Museum and then went by the masonic lodge. Below is an example of some Dr. Pepper memorabilia showcased in the museum. Entrance is $6 per person for adults. I've drank Dr. Pepper since I was a kid, but I do not recommend visiting the museum; I found it boring and a waste of money. You can, however go inside and enter the gift shop and the snack bar where you can buy a glass of the original formula Dr. Pepper, made with pure cane sugar. You can also buy bottles, or a six pack of cans of the original formula dr Pepper for less than 5 bucks. I try the original forumla of Dr. Pepper after a hot day in Waco. Delicious. More photos here Suggested documentaries on WACO: WACO: THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT Also: Waco: the Big Lie and America: WAKE UP or WACO!
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 28.
#9. To: Artisan (#0)
Have you posted your TX DPS video yet?
Rabbi Abraham Cooper Dear Rabbi Cooper: The Fifth Anniversary of the April 19, 1993 burning of the Mt. Carmel Center in Waco, Texas is fast approaching. I write in the hope that you and the Simon Wiesenthal Center will use your considerable resources to mark the occasion. As we have not met, allow me to give you a little information about my background. I am a resident of Virginia, but a New Yorker by birth. I could be described as a "concerned citizen," a mother with a young daughter, concerned with teaching my daughter to do the right thing. When I was a young woman, I attended a convent school where the nuns taught me about the rise of the Nazis in Germany. I could not understand why the German people, with their great history of learning and culture, could allow such to happen in their country. Why did they not speak out and say "No"? I resolved that, should history bring similar circumstances to my life, I would step forward and say "No." . . . Still today, five years after Waco, the words "Never Again" are unspoken by our nation. It was indeed a coincidence that the burning of the Mt. Carmel Center took place hours before the US Holocaust Museum was dedicated in Washington, D.C. (on April 19, 1993, the 50th anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising). Yet, as far as the public knows, not one of the dignitaries at the dedication condemned the slaughter of the innocents at Waco. To compound the irony, David Koresh and the Branch Davidians apparently had a warm regard for Israel and things Jewish. * David Koresh personally visited Israel. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/doc/d_doc15.html According to that Jerusalem Post Magazine article, I long accepted this dictum as true: Jews feel concern for the downtrodden and are champions of the Bill of Rights and due process. Therefore it has been a great personal disappointment to me that, almost five years after the incident, not one American Jewish leader of prominence has condemned the butchery and demanded the prosecution of the murderers. Sadly, no one from organized Jewry has spoken out to condemn the hatred and denigration leveled against the Waco victims, either. You doubtlessly witnessed the hate campaign conducted by the media during the 1993 siege, but do you realize that the campaign still continues? Review the hate cartoon published by ESQUIRE magazine in January, 1996: http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/fig/b_fig01.html I enclose a copy of the cartoon, along with a copy of the magazine's masthead. (Note that Edward Kosner is no longer the editor of ESQUIRE.) Have a look at the cartoon on pg. 66. The banner over the top reads: "MILITIA CAFE . . . The Finest Theme Restaurant in the Zionist States of Amerika!" . . . I would like to make a formal public request that the Simon Wiesenthal Center (1) call for the prosecution of the murderers of the Branch Davidians, and, (2) publicly condemn the hate and vilification campaigns leveled against the Davidians. I ask you to join me in affirming Article I of America's first Bill of Rights, the Virginia Declaration of Rights: "That all Men by Nature are equally free and independent, and have certain inherent Rights, of which, when they enter into a state of Society, they cannot, by any Compact, deprive or divest their Posterity; namely, the enjoyment of Life and Liberty, with the Means of acquiring and possessing Property, and pursuing and obtaining Happiness and Safety." (Adopted on June 12, 1776; written by George Mason of Gunston Hall, Virginia.) We Americans have come from a variety of religious, cultural and ethnic backgrounds. My own ancestors were Irish and Italian. When they came to this country, they did so with the intention of giving their full loyalty to America and its ideals--liberty and justice for all. Surely our first civic duty is to the nationality that unites us, rather than ethnic, religious or cultural differences that may divide us. Let us seek common justice even for the "least of these" who live among us. Naturally I would be delighted if you persuaded other leaders of organized Jewry to join in these efforts. I would be pleased to offer you whatever assistance I can in this regard. My e-mail address is . I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Carol A. Valentine
Guessing that Ms.Valentine is still waiting for a response to her thoughtful letter.
Butch Reno and Lon Horiuchi are two people I would like to see face the hangman.
Thanks for the RW video - strong stuff.
If you watch that whole movie, you learn that Randy was being targeted as a potential informant with a potential conviction hanging over his head -- what they hoped to get by his sawed off shotgun evidence. They really wanted to go after the Aryan Nations crowd using the fact that the group trusted him. He wasn't one of them, really. He sympathized with their ideas, and attended their picnics. He was worried about Zionist influence in the US, and wanted no part in modern American life, which he believed was becoming more and more dominated by Zionism. He thought of himself as a racial separatist, not a supremacist. The media makes the two sound the same, but to people like Randy Weaver, they are not. Needless to say, Randy wouldn't oblige the ATF/FBI and spy on his friends, even if he didn't agree with everything that they said.
I had the pleasure to have breakfast with RW when he was in town a few years ago. Just an everyday Joe who wished nothing more than to be left alone with his family. Much like the Davidians...
They really weren't average, but that's another point worth making. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave, or it isn't. Randy wanted to keep his family separate from everyday life. So be it. It's not up to the government to ask why. A note on the Waco story: it apparently all started because a neighbor complained to the sheriff about automatic weapons fire. The average soccer mom thinks justice was served at Waco and Ruby Ridge.
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#10. To: lodwick, Critter, Artisan, Cynicom, christine, Texe Marrs (#9)
Letter to the Simon Wiesenthal Center
March 20, 1998
Associate Dean
Simon Wiesenthal Center
9760 W. Pico Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90035
* The flag of the Davidians featured the Star of David.
* Vernon Howell changed his name to "David" to honor Israeli King David and "Koresh" (the Hebrew form of Cyrus) to honor the Persian King Cyrus who defeated the Babylonians and freed the Jews from captivity.
* Branch Davidian survivor David Thibodeau visited Jerusalem in 1994; the Jersulam Post Magazine considered his visit significant enough to write a feature story on him (October 14, 1994). See
* The Branch Davidians living at the Mt. Carmel Center studied the Torah.
* One Branch Davidian who died at the Mt. Carmel Center, the late Pablo Cohen, was an Israeli citizen. According to the Jerusalem Post Magazine article, Mr. Cohen was one of the most devoted students of Scripture within the Branch Davidian community.
* David Koresh gave his deepest biblical studies during the Jewish High Holy Days.
* The FBI allowed a Pessah haggada, sent by Pablo's mother, Shulamit Cohen, into the Center during the siege. It was one of the few items the FBI allowed into the Center during the siege.
President, Public Action, Inc.
#14. To: buckeye, Cynicom, all (#10)
#16. To: lodwick, buckeye (#14)
#17. To: Cynicom, lodwick, christine, Artisan, Cynicom (#16)
#20. To: buckeye (#17)
#21. To: lodwick (#20)
(Edited)
#24. To: buckeye, Cynicom, all (#21)
Needless to say, Randy wouldn't oblige the ATF/FBI and spy on his friends, even if he didn't agree with everything that they said.
#28. To: lodwick (#24)
(Edited)
Davy Aguilera, the ATF agent that had prepared the affidavit, testified later on the trial that a neighbor heard machine-gun fire; but Aguilera failed to tell the magistrate that the same neighbor had previously reported the noise to the sheriff, who investigated the noise. The sheriff found Koresh had a lawful item called a hellfire device, which allows a semi-automatic firearm to fire at a rate approaching that of fully automatic firearms. The affidavit was approved by a U.S. magistrate and was used as a base for warrants.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege
Replies to Comment # 28.