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Title: Prominent Structural Engineers Say Official Version of 9/11 "Impossible" "Defies Common Logic" "Violates the Law of Physics"
Source:
opednews.com
URL Source: http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=7524
Published: Jun 2, 2008
Author: Diary Entry by George Washington
Post Date: 2008-06-02 22:50:01 by TwentyTwelve
Keywords: 911, "Impossible", "Violates the Law of Physics”
Views: 1863
Comments: 117
May 27, 2008 at 15:08:49 Prominent Structural Engineers Say Official Version of 9/11 "Impossible" "Defies Common Logic" "Violates the Law of Physics” Diary Entry by George Washington Prominent Structural Engineers Say Official Version of 9/11 "Impossible" "Defies Common Logic" "Violates the Law of Physics" :::::::: Numerous structural engineers now publicly challenge the government's account of the destruction of the Trade Centers on 9/11, including: A prominent engineer with 55 years experience, in charge of the design of hundreds of major building projects including high rise offices, former member of the California Seismic Safety Commission and former member of the National Institute of Sciences Building Safety Council (Marx Ayres) believes that the World Trade Centers were brought down by controlled demolition (see also this) Two professors of structural engineering at a prestigious Swiss university (Dr. Joerg Schneider and Dr. Hugo Bachmann) said that, on 9/11, World Trade Center 7 was brought down by controlled demolition (translation here) Kamal S. Obeid, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Berkeley, of Fremont, California, says: "Photos of the steel, evidence about how the buildings collapsed, the unexplainable collapse of WTC 7, evidence of thermite in the debris as well as several other red flags, are quite troubling indications of well planned and controlled demolition" Ronald H. Brookman, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Davis, of Novato California, writes: "Why would all 110 stories drop straight down to the ground in about 10 seconds, pulverizing the contents into dust and ash - twice. Why would all 47 stories of WTC 7 fall straight down to the ground in about seven seconds the same day? It was not struck by any aircraft or engulfed in any fire. An independent investigation is justified for all three collapses including the surviving steel samples and the composition of the dust." Graham John Inman, structural engineer, of London, England, points out: "WTC 7 Building could not have collapsed as a result of internal fire and external debris. NO plane hit this building. This is the only case of a steel frame building collapsing through fire in the world. The fire on this building was small & localized therefore what is the cause?" Paul W. Mason, structural engineer, of Melbourne, Australia, argues: "In my view, the chances of the three buildings collapsing symmetrically into their own footprint, at freefall speed, by any other means than by controlled demolition, are so remote that there is no other plausible explanation!" Mills M. Kay Mackey, structural engineer, of Denver, Colorado, points out: "The force from the jets and the burning fuel could not have been sufficient to make the building collapse. Why doesn't the media mention that the 11th floor was completely immolated on February 13th, 1975? It had the weight of nearly 100 stories on top of it but it did not collapse?" David Scott, Structural Engineer, of Scotland, argues: "Near-freefall collapse violates laws of physics. Fire induced collapse is not consistent with observed collapse mode . . . ." Nathan Lomba, Structural Engineer, of Eureka, California, states "I began having doubts about, so called, official explanations for the collapse of the WTC towers soon after the explanations surfaced. The gnawing question that lingers in my mind is: How did the structures collapse in near symmetrical fashion when the apparent precipitating causes were asymmetrical loading? The collapses defies common logic from an elementary structural engineering perspective. “If” you accept the argument that fire protection covering was damaged to such an extent that structural members in the vicinity of the aircraft impacts were exposed to abnormally high temperatures, and “if” you accept the argument that the temperatures were high enough to weaken the structural framing, that still does not explain the relatively concentric nature of the failures. Neither of the official precipitating sources for the collapses, namely the burning aircraft, were centered within the floor plan of either tower; both aircraft were off-center when they finally came to rest within the respective buildings. This means that, given the foregoing assumptions, heating and weakening of the structural framing would have been constrained to the immediate vicinity of the burning aircraft. Heat transmission (diffusion) through the steel members would have been irregular owing to differing sizes of the individual members; and, the temperature in the members would have dropped off precipitously the further away the steel was from the flames—just as the handle on a frying pan doesn't get hot at the same rate as the pan on the burner of the stove. These factors would have resulted in the structural framing furthest from the flames remaining intact and possessing its full structural integrity, i.e., strength and stiffness. Structural steel is highly ductile, when subjected to compression and bending it buckles and bends long before reaching its tensile or shear capacity. Under the given assumptions, “if” the structure in the vicinity of either burning aircraft started to weaken, the superstructure above would begin to lean in the direction of the burning side. The opposite, intact, side of the building would resist toppling until the ultimate capacity of the structure was reached, at which point, a weak-link failure would undoubtedly occur. Nevertheless, the ultimate failure mode would have been a toppling of the upper floors to one side—much like the topping of a tall redwood tree—not a concentric, vertical collapse. For this reason alone, I rejected the official explanation for the collapse of the WTC towers out of hand. Subsequent evidence supporting controlled, explosive demolition of the two buildings are more in keeping with the observed collapse modalities and only serve to validate my initial misgivings as to the causes for the structural failures." Edward E. Knesl, civil and structural engineer, of Phoenix, Arizona, writes: "We design and analyze buildings for the overturning stability to resist the lateral loads with the combination of the gravity loads. Any tall structure failure mode would be a fall over to its side. It is impossible that heavy steel columns could collapse at the fraction of the second within each story and subsequently at each floor below. We do not know the phenomenon of the high rise building to disintegrate internally faster than the free fall of the debris coming down from the top. The engineering science and the law of physics simply doesn't know such possibility. Only very sophisticated controlled demolition can achieve such result, eliminating the natural dampening effect of the structural framing huge mass that should normally stop the partial collapse. The pancake theory is a fallacy, telling us that more and more energy would be generated to accelerate the collapse. Where would such energy would be coming from ?" David Topete, civil and structural engineer, San Francisco, California Charles Pegelow, structural engineer, of Houston, Texas (and see this) Dennis Kollar, structural engineer, of West Bend, Wisconsin Doyle Winterton, structural engineer (retired) Michael T. Donly, P.E., structural engineer William Rice, P.E., structural engineer, former professor of Vermont Technical College See this website and this website for further additions. There are many other structural engineers who have questioned the government's account in private. We support them and wish them courage to discuss these vital issues publicly.
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#42. To: HOUNDDAWG (#36)
I did get to have some fun though. I had, had a hard drive crash a couple of months prior to my banning and had opened a temporary account under a different pseudonym as an interim measure since I was having trouble contacting Goldi-Schmuck. So, I went back a couple of months later and, discovering that the temp account had not been closed, posted a scathing opus just to twist her whiskers. It only lasted about 6 hours but that was long enough to accumulate something over 100 posts on the thread. To make it more insulting I posted it first here, then on the "hallowed" "Breaking News" Ticker with the source link coming back here. Goldi-lard ass has no credibility left and she is a laughing stock because of her stupidity, arrogance, and hypocrisy. Stupidity and arrogance are not a winning combination. I do find it amusing to pop over every now and then to look at the shills who control the site. Goldi's first allegiance is to Israhell and exposing that was one of the accomplishments of my stay. She can no longer hide behind calling herself an American because she is not. She is an Israeli residing in America. Although as a convert I find it amusing as well that Israhell is showing its colors again by making it difficult to impossible for converts to be recognized as Jews. I find it sad for her, in a sick way, because she so wants to be a Jew and belong but a percentage will never accept her and she knows that. It is a cold comfort.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Very few of us ended up here because we were apt to be polite. If you don't like other people making remarks that question your assumptions, you could always take your discussion to PMs.
If someone uses disinformation/disruption tactics I will call them on it. If someone treats me with common civility I will respond in kind. I don't flame people for the fun of it nor to disrupt a thread. When someone does then I will make note of it.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
It must be awful to be so universally despised for her part in a losing battle.
"...and somewhere out there was the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
The short answer is no - other than they have to be relatively recent i.e., the last 2 years or more recent. I've been following the evolution of the discrediting of the 911 "Official Fairy Tale" and the slow recognition by more and more people that 911 WAS an INSIDE job. I've been following the issue since about a month after the day with the recognition that the towers were pulled via explosive demolition. I've followed the debate and those who have come forward and the quotes in the thread article are largely Johnny-Come-Latelys. I'm glad to see them on board but my comment stands: Where were their balls 4 years ago?
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
I suspect it is so. Not only that, whether she will admit it even to herself, she is on the side of people who are no better than the inhuman Nazi beasts she exscoriates. Look at what an Israel Supporter has to support: Genocide via murder and slow starvation. Historically, and perhaps present, the use of biological warfare against noncombatants. The use of White Phosphorous on noncombatants - including children. The dehumanization of others in order to more easily murder them. The murder and incarceration of children. Massive suppression of hundreds of thousands of people. The destruction of their livelihoods, their farms, and businesses. The support of aggressive wars on Israel's behalf which has cost the lives of, minimally since their are repeated leaks that the numbers being under reported by at least 2/3, 4,000 plus American kids, and the cold blooded murder of several million people between Pipelinestan and Eyerack. No, the load of blackness and evil on her conscience must be an awful pain. However, she has earned every bit of it.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
I think you're misunderstanding the motives of nobody. Er. Who's on first?
These aren't new quotes. You're saying you haven't checked the list over at the site I mentioned in the last two years and you remember which ones were already there? I doubt that's what's happened. Give it up. Look, how are they supposed to notify you of their stand in a timely manner if you haven't checked the site in over two years? Are they supposed to go on the Today Show, send you an e-mail, what??
You are simply trying to manufacture a gotcha. You have made an assertion. It is incumbent upon you to prove your point. You know you can't and I know you can't. You are simply engaging in disinformation tactics and are simply attempting to disparage the point without providing one shred of proof to support your contention. That is a standard disinformation tactic. Ref.: Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. 7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive. 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. 1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility. "The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
You made a blunder, I noticed it. Three people in fact, all acting as if they knew the quotes were all recent and all finding fault based on that. It's a natural question I asked myself first - what makes these people believe they know when all the quotes were made. Are they all really following all the websites that closely? It this a concert, a three-part harmony I'm messing up? Was a consensus reached on what sort of flimsy excuse would be used to criticize all these people and anyone else who might be slow to join? It's a curious thing. Not one of you three is risking your professional reputation on 9/11 like these people, as far as I can see at the moment. If you aren't in the building engineering trade then maybe you have no idea what's at risk.
My initial question was simply my way of inviting comments. For instance, BushCo's lame duck status may have energized some folks who were otherwise afraid to go on the offensive. It wasn't that long ago that the fear was as thick as a pea soup fog in America and the enemy was still convinced that they could label and kookify people like Charlie Sheen and still win the battle in the media they control. But now we're much closer to a point where the MSM conspirators would simply blackout new 9/11 truth seekers or, if the voice is that of a too famous celeb or politician then the media likely report it but let it pass without comment. The enemy is now so petrified that this is going to get away from their abilities to control us and the groundswell of voices demanding something other than the "too little too late" treatment that the JFK assassination received. After 35 years of trying to cork that bottle the media masters were forced to pretend that they too wanted a comprehensive review of the JFK murder. So, after allowing a full year for the shredding machines to finish tidying up and any other loose ends to be secured the media report revealed that the truth had to be one of only two possibilities; "Oswald did it" or, "Oswald acted alone." 9/11 is different. It can be proven that jet fuel fires won't bring down steel framed structures, and under no conditions other than sequentially triggered explosives (and possibly omitting all hardened load bearing bolts and instead installing bread sticks) could the desired visual effect ever be duplicated. So, the only hope is to stop people from talking about it. Good luck with that, all you ass kissing sellouts. The prep work is done and the doubts are there. Perhaps the time will come and 9/11 truth will resemble the tread of mighty armies whose time has come...."
"...and somewhere out there was the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
Why do you find it necessary to engage in disinformation tactics? I guess I should have finished writing the obvious for the benefit of those who leap across the assumption gap then troll like Hell. Here we go. What took them so long? (to reprint these remarks in places where I and like minded others will see and discuss them?) It doesn't matter when they were first published in obscure trade publications or where ever. What matters is now, when the momentum is building like TOPSY thanks to Mearsheimer and Walt! HAH!
"...and somewhere out there was the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
I recall making a similar comment about some MIT prof a while back, but that's different because the MIT faculty had a large contribution to backing the official version. Perhaps that is what has you f-sticks all a-twitter. Useless nitwits.
What took them so long? (to reprint these remarks in places where I and like minded others will see and discuss them?) Who's them? There's only one author credited. You aren't very convincing, by the way.
Which it received. Amusingly enough I made my comment before reading yours, so we both followed the same path. Yes, I think the dam is leaking heavily, and as you point out, we have several potent lines of investigation which were not present for the Kennedy Hit Investigation. The trolls will no longer even attack on the facts trying disparage the obvious and proven data instead they just try cover it over like a cat hiding a turd - almost instinctively. What we get now, as opposed to a couple of years ago, are attacks on obscure or irrelevant points trying to simply divert the debate and turn it into a flame war. The problem is that the shills are low paid low I.Q. flunkies and when you pay for a minimum wage worker that is usually what you get. They are no better at flame wars than they were at deriding hard physical data. The presstitutes are still trying to black out the truth seekers, but much to their frustration, in the age of the internet they no longer have complete information control as when it all the nooze reporting was the three controlled networks, or the controlled large noozepapers. The Noozepapers are fighting to stay afloat as their circulation continues to plummet and most intelligent people no longer trust the major networks. So, we are making headway and the trolls may yet find themselves taking a ride in a "Tree Swing".
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Agreed. And as you rightly imply much of the troll activity is from minions of the Marxist-Zionist State who see their Ox being gored by people being alerted to the 911 Inside Job in which Israeli elements were heavily involved. I've often wondered what the exact percentage of troll activity were Hasbarfa Israel First anti-american treasonous quisling slime or just Israelis?
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Mearsheimer and Walt never said a thing about any 9/11 false-flag cover-up. That makes them lamers on the topic. They haven't even mentioned zionist-NWO false flagging in any other context either, as far as I know. They promulgate an appreciable amount of zionist-NWO propaganda in this way, IMO. That's why they get as much play as they do from the MSM. Of their many poison pills is their apparent assertion that AIPAC functions as a legitimate American lobby and not as an unregistered agent of a foreign state. I haven't read much of their stuff, I get this second-hand. Wouldn't surprise me if M&W do not mention the USS Liberty either, although a fair number of articles on the web combine the two subjects almost as if they do. I could be wrong on that last part, but the cynic in me is never disappointed when it comes to zionists. In any event, Houndclown's lameness agenda is showing quite plainly. You guys are quite an act.
Well said. To those of us who have had newspaper columns under our own names in the past, anonymous cowards shilling for the puppeteers are simply unworthy of anyone's time or consideration. It takes zero courage to snipe anonymously, and intellect devoid of character is a tool of the evil doers, the very beasts we're targeting for exposure and elimination. Although you've done a yeoman's job of pointing out that the troll is standing in quicksand, the fact is, in a meat world debate he wouldn't dare reveal his loyalties or the hands he licks and he's received more attention than he's entitled to already. SO, I don't cross swords with anyone who wouldn't stand their ground in a live gathering. The internet actually disguises demented dwarves and obscures that which would automatically preclude them from ever having the support of a live audience where their agenda and defects would be exposed for all to see. People like you and I are natural leaders in public discussions while trolls and their masters can only conspire against us from their cowardly hides. I see no reason to afford them any more attention than they'd be entitled to if they showed their kinky haired, swarthy selves in public.
"...and somewhere out there is the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
I see no reason to afford them any more Very well said.
Thank you for the kind words. It occurred to me that one of the few remaining tactics they have is to simply show up and throw their puff ball attacks to try to intimidate us by letting us know that we are under constant surveillance - like we didn't already know it. You are quite right in that they are mentally deformed, twisted, and debilitated shrills, but they do serve one useful purpose - as ineffectual foils to illustrate both their presence and what that implies. They do fear us because we are much more effective than they are, are much brighter (not to give myself "airs" but it is simply a factual statement - intelligent people do not generally become criminals), and have a weapon which their lies cannot neutralize - the truth.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
No idea what you're talking about, don't care if you're a retired whore, you have all the marking of a zionist in drag.
I really don't care what a bunch of asshole pig thugs think, no matter how big their gang is or how long and hard they've been working on their creds here or anywhere.
You are simply making an ass out of yourself, confident that you have enough pull with others here to carry it off. Chummy bunch of fakes acting just like pigs.
Maybe you're a zio-nut with no context flacking for M&W.
Dawg, you are, without a doubt, the most ridiculously inept liar I have ever encountered here or anywhere else in recent memory.
Pure projection. It's pig-speak, you're inverting the truth while ganging up on me for asking the questions you refuse to answer in a sensible manner. You have no explanation for why you say you know how old the quotes are and none either for suggesting that they are not yet two years old. But there you are insinuating they're all suspiciously late, and you know exactly when they all were made. "Constant surveillance" indeed. It's the odor wafting off houndclown, you and others here. You might want to stop sniffing yourself in public. Who's the ex-newspaper journalist houndclown is blabbering about? Did an ex- journalist here write a newspaper column about 9/11? No need to explain if you'd rather not say. You know what they say about US journalists often having to work two jobs and all.
Do you guys hear a buzzing sound?
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
These guys are the pain in the ass I knew I'd find doing the gang-up gatekeeping here, like every demonstration has its gang of plants, and I'm now convinced they've figured out a way to give everyone else a different version of this thread than the one I'm seeing. There's no other explanation for why they think it's not obvious to many people what they're up to.
I think people should note two things: 1. The speed with which the next post following mine came. 2. That the poster insists on attacking people personally and has never in the thread posted anything which supports its alleged point. Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist by H. Michael Sweeney "The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
These clowns apparently are actually now practically bragging that they have a way of knowing when I'm looking at the site and they often put a post near the top of the front page when I check here, is the thought I had. Needless to say, they suggest I'm checking the site too frequently for their taste while they banter about with various atttacks on me.
This is where you started getting personal and inverting the facts with me. Right off the bat. Before that it was you guys attacking the people quoted in the article, me questioning you on it and suggesting the appearance of what you were all doing was not good, and me correcly pointing out where one quote literally made no sense as written. From there you never backed down and merely compounded your lies. It must be your job. I feel obliged to point out your capacity for inverting facts with spectacular efficiency. Again you appear confident that others here have a different version of the thread from mine. Now you're trying to keep me occupied and waste my time.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
I simply commented then, as now, about where were these guys several years ago and they were nowhere in evidence. You challenged that comment, with ill grace, but as of yet have presented nothing to support your Argumentum Ad Hominem attacks.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
When a person asserts something while they're attacking someone's motives and another person questions the assertion, it is up to the asserter to support the assertion as best as possible. You apparently attempted that when you weren't busy lying about me and I've informed you, though not in so many words, that your explanation is full of incongruities. In the meantime you've continued your efficient cut-paste aggressively-inversional lying campaign as if you've got quite the playbook for this approach, and you've avoided the incongruities. That's about where we stand, minus my complaints about the downright nastiness of it all interjected here and there. I'm done with you for at least few hours now, I hope.
Thank you.
"...and somewhere out there is the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
Worth repeating. The good news is, if we bozo him and his bait remains untouched then he'll soon realize that the virtual world is a cold, lonely, desolate place for a man without a country. I only have to read your replies to picture his ugly troll ass, and if you stop replying he ceases to exist for me.
"...and somewhere out there is the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
LMAO! I don't see any of his trollisms at all and I'm laffing my ass off at him! Too funny! He started out thinking of himself as a really clever gadfly, and now he's desperately crying out for someone, ANYONE to read and reply point by point to his frantic dewdie! We got him right where we want him now, boys.
"...and somewhere out there is the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
Any moment now he's/she's going to start stamping their feet and threatening to hold their breath until they turn blue. "The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
LMAO! It amazes me how people who believe themselves to be intelligent and witty can make the same stupid mistake again and again. They seem to think that they can come here and plop their dumb asses down in the middle of friends and acquaintances and anonymously screw with people without our consent! Would they walk into our campfire and demand a green stick and a marshmallow to roast? "Oh yeah, Mister Trolly Boy, you're just too clever by half!" I'm gonna try not bust out laffing so I can write this. He thinks that the sheer, crushing weight of his intellect is all the invitation he needs! BWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHH!
"...and somewhere out there is the entire 141st NVA regiment..."__PLATOON
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return Interesting that you claim converts can't use 'the law of return,' as it states otherwise.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI read what she did to you, and she no longer makes any pretense at anything but house mother for the insane system thugs.
They may dominate their little piece of the virtual universe but believe me, they know what the loss of cred cost them.
They're just another Hale-Bopp type of death cult now.
#43. To: Original_Intent (#40)
Actually I find ill-mannered, boorish, and snide to be better descriptors.
#44. To: buckeye (#43)
#45. To: Original_Intent (#42)
#46. To: nobody (#4)
Just curious, do you have any idea when these statements were originally written, not just quoted in the article?
#47. To: HOUNDDAWG (#45)
It must be awful to be so universally despised for her part in a losing battle.
#48. To: Original_Intent (#44)
If someone uses disinformation/disruption tactics I will call them on it.
#49. To: Original_Intent (#46)
(Edited)
they have to be relatively recent i.e., the last 2 years or more recent
#50. To: nobody, buckeye, TwentyTwelve, HOUNDDAWG, Wudidiz, all (#49)
Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
Why do you find it necessary to engage in disinformation tactics?
#51. To: Original_Intent (#50)
(Edited)
You are simply trying to manufacture a gotcha.
#52. To: Original_Intent (#50)
#53. To: Original_Intent (#50)
#54. To: Original_Intent (#50)
#55. To: HOUNDDAWG (#53)
Here we go.
#56. To: HOUNDDAWG (#52)
My initial question was simply my way of inviting comments.
#57. To: HOUNDDAWG (#53)
(Edited)
It doesn't matter when they were first published in obscure trade publications or where ever. What matters is now, when the momentum is building like TOPSY thanks to Mearsheimer and Walt!
#58. To: Original_Intent (#57)
(Edited)
the momentum is building like TOPSY thanks to Mearsheimer and Walt! Agreed.
#59. To: Original_Intent (#56)
The trolls will no longer even attack on the facts trying disparage the obvious and proven data instead they just try cover it over like a cat hiding a turd - almost instinctively. What we get now, as opposed to a couple of years ago, are attacks on obscure or irrelevant points trying to simply divert the debate and turn it into a flame war. The problem is that the shills are low paid low I.Q. flunkies and when you pay for a minimum wage worker that is usually what you get. They are no better at flame wars than they were at deriding hard physical data.
#60. To: HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent (#59)
People like you (Original_Intent) and I are natural leaders in public discussions while trolls and their masters can only conspire against us from their cowardly hides.
#61. To: HOUNDDAWG, TwentyTwelve, christine, all (#59)
#62. To: HOUNDDAWG (#59)
To those of us who have had newspaper columns under our own names in the past
#63. To: TwentyTwelve (#60)
(Edited)
#64. To: Original_Intent (#50)
(Edited)
You are simply trying to manufacture a gotcha.
#65. To: HOUNDDAWG (#2)
Maybe they were waiting for Mearsheimer and Walt to weaken the Zionists' stranglehold on the minds of Americans before acting.
#66. To: HOUNDDAWG (#53)
Here we go. What took them so long? (to reprint these remarks in places where I and like minded others will see and discuss them?)
#67. To: Original_Intent (#61)
(Edited)
they have is to simply show up and throw their puff ball attacks to try to intimidate us by letting us know that we are under constant surveillance
#68. To: HOUNDDAWG, TwentyTwelve, all (#59)
#69. To: All (#68)
#70. To: All, HOUNDDAWG, TwentyTwelve, christine, nobody (#69)
8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation: 1) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth. 2) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command. 3) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.
#71. To: All (#70)
The speed with which the next post following mine came.
#72. To: Original_Intent (#7)
(Edited)
Heaven forfend that we might mistake your caustic innuendoes for criticism.
#73. To: All, HOUNDDAWG, TwentyTwelve, christine, nobody (#71)
#74. To: nobody (#72)
This is where you starrt getting personal and inverting the facts with me. Before that it was you guys attacking the people quoted in the article. From there you never backed down and merely compounded your lies. It must be your job.
#75. To: Original_Intent (#74)
(Edited)
#76. To: TwentyTwelve (#60)
#77. To: Original_Intent (#61)
It occurred to me that one of the few remaining tactics they have is to simply show up and throw their puff ball attacks to try to intimidate us by letting us know that we are under constant surveillance - like we didn't already know it. You are quite right in that they are mentally deformed, twisted, and debilitated shrills, but they do serve one useful purpose - as ineffectual foils to illustrate both their presence and what that implies. They do fear us because we are much more effective than they are, are much brighter (not to give myself "airs" but it is simply a factual statement - intelligent people do not generally become criminals), and have a weapon which their lies cannot neutralize - the truth.
#78. To: Original_Intent (#73)
#79. To: HOUNDDAWG (#78)
#80. To: Original_Intent (#79)
Any moment now he's/she's going to start stamping their feet and threatening to hold their breath until they turn blue.
#81. To: Original_Intent (#42)
Those who are eligible to immigrate under the Law of Return are immediately granted citizenship. Controversy has arisen as to whether all those claiming citizenship rights under the Law of Return should be registered as "Jewish" citizens for census purposes. Jewish status is traditionally granted according to the halakhic definition of being Jewish-- if your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish as well or if you convert to Judaism (though conversions to Reform and Conservative Judaism streams are generally not recognized by many people in Israel). However, any Jew regardless of affiliation may return and claim citizenship in Israel.
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
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