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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: McCain: Guantanamo Decision One Of the Worst Ever;
Source: HuffPo
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/ ... o-detainees-have_n_106757.html
Published: Jun 14, 2008
Author: An unrepentant fascist traitor
Post Date: 2008-06-14 10:53:24 by Arator
Ping List: *Treasonous Neocon Alert*     Subscribe to *Treasonous Neocon Alert*
Keywords: McCain, is, Insane
Views: 681
Comments: 56

McCain: Guantanamo Decision One Of the Worst Ever

June 13, 2008 03:51 PM

John McCain heightened his rhetoric about the Boumediene v. Bush decision, which grants the Guantanamo detainees to question their confinement in civilian courts:

"The Supreme Court yesterday rendered a decision which I think is one of the worst decisions in the history of this country," McCain said.

The statement met with great approval by voters at the candidate's town hall meeting:

The crowd of more than 1,000 supporters, packed into a gym at Burlington County College, exploded into applause at McCain's comments.

The presumptive GOP nominee then read from Chief Justice John Roberts' dissent, and predicted the courts would now be "flooded" with habeas corpus lawsuits.

The harsh rebuke is a sudden shift from McCain's position yesterday, when he first learned of the decision:

It obviously concerns me . . . but it is a decision the Supreme Court has made. Now we need to move forward. As you know, I always favored closing of Guantanamo Bay and I still think that we ought to do that.

In contrast, here's Senator Obama's reaction:

Senator Barack Obama:

Today's Supreme Court decision ensures that we can protect our nation and bring terrorists to justice, while also protecting our core values. The Court's decision is a rejection of the Bush Administration's attempt to create a legal black hole at Guantanamo - yet another failed policy supported by John McCain.


Poster Comment:

For those who claim that there is no difference between McCain and Obama, and that it does not matter which one is president, their reactions to the recent Gitmo decision by the Supreme Court proves otherwise.

That decision proved that we are one Supreme Court vote away from total fascist tyranny. Bush appointees Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas voted for fascism. Ford appointee Stevens, Reagan appointee Kennedy, GHW Bush appointee Souter and Clinton appointees Beyer and Ginsburg voted for the Constitution.

Three of the five non-fascist justices are expected to retire in the next president's term. It matters now more than ever that Obama be that president, not McCain.

You can't really afford to sit this one out, purist non-voters. It's time for you to reengage and vote Obama to save this Republic from totalitarian Fascist tyranny. Subscribe to *Treasonous Neocon Alert*

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#1. To: christine, Jethro Tull, Cynicom, rack42, iconoclast, RickyJ (#0)

It's not a coin flip. Not even close.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-06-14   10:55:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Critter (#1)

Red alert. It's time for all American patriots to overcome their cynicism, reengage, and do the right thing. Stop insane McCain and the fascist GOP. Vote Obama.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-06-14   10:57:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: kamala (#0)

It's decision time. Cynicism will get us absolutely nowhere.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-06-14   11:06:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Arator (#2)

Stop insane McCain and the fascist GOP. Vote Obama.

OMG! Can't have the Gambino family running things! We must vote for the Genovese crime family! They'll send smaller goons to break your kneecaps! We need to put an end to big goon kneecap breaking!

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

Critter  posted on  2008-06-14   11:19:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Critter (#4)

OMG! Can't have the Gambino family running things! We must vote for the Genovese crime family! They'll send smaller goons to break your kneecaps! We need to put an end to big goon kneecap breaking!

snickering.


Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.
James Madison

farmfriend  posted on  2008-06-14   12:09:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Critter (#4)

OMG! Can't have the Gambino family running things! We must vote for the Genovese crime family! They'll send smaller goons to break your kneecaps! We need to put an end to big goon kneecap breaking!

LOL! Good one, Critter.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-14   12:34:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Arator (#0)

Priorities my friend. I care more about the price of gas and rising food cost that the "rights" of Guantanamo detainees. The system of American justice is such that excessive bail, or no bail, effectively trumps habeas anyway. Until every American citizen is guaranteed the right of habeas, and a reasonable bail system, the Gitmo residents will have to be put on the back burner. I'm not shocked by Bush and what he does. I am shocked at the Ds, elected in '06 on the platform of change, who have done nothing about the matter. And here you are tripping over your feet for more....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-14   13:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Arator (#0)

That decision proved that we are one Supreme Court vote away from total fascist tyranny. Bush appointees Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas voted for fascism. Ford appointee Stevens, Reagan appointee Kennedy, GHW Bush appointee Souter and Clinton appointees Beyer and Ginsburg voted for the Constitution.

Thanks for outlining the vote count & the analysis. Interesting.

MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist."
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2008-06-14   13:52:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Critter (#4)

OMG! Can't have the Gambino family running things! We must vote for the Genovese crime family!

Heh. Well said.

winston_smith  posted on  2008-06-14   15:01:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Jethro Tull (#7) (Edited)

I care more about the price of gas and rising food cost that the "rights" of Guantanamo detainees.

Talk about a false dichotomy. You think McCain will do anything about gas and food when the primary cause of our economic distress is the war in Iraq (and potential war with Iran) that he wants to continue (and expand)?

The system of American justice is such that excessive bail, or no bail, effectively trumps habeas anyway. Until every American citizen is guaranteed the right of habeas, and a reasonable bail system, the Gitmo residents will have to be put on the back burner.

BS. Human beings who have been rendered non-persons and subjected to systematic torture should never be put on the back burner. What on earth has happened to you, JT? Your hatred of Obama appears to have twisted you into a moral disfigurement of near neocon-esque proportions. Your willingness to have the Gitmo crimes continue, frankly, makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm not shocked by Bush and what he does.

Indeed. You are apparently quite comfortable with what he does and wouldn't mind having it continue on and become institutionalized in a successor administration, just so long as the president/tyrant/torturer/false- imprisoner/mass- murderer-in-chief continues to be "white".

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-06-14   15:49:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Arator (#2)

Vote Obama.

Its not who votes, its who counts

castletrash  posted on  2008-06-14   15:55:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Arator, Critter, Jethro Tull (#10)

makes me sick to my stomach.

Read Critter's excellent comment and take it to heart. You used to know, or at least acted like you knew, that no establishment politician was worth a bucket of warm spit. And now you act like some giddy teenage girl in love for the first time over this Obama character. That pretty much makes me sick to my stomach.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-14   16:25:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Arator (#10)

Talk about a false dichotomy. You think McCain will do anything about gas and food when the primary cause of our economic distress is the war in Iraq (and potential war with Iran) that he wants to continue (and expand)?

Who said he would do anything about the cost of gas/food? Why is it you Os immediately throw down the McCain card when Mr. Obama is criticized? I’m the guy preaching all these dudes are cut from the same Establishment cloth, remember? And no, all of our economic distress is from the war (as evil as that is). Our continued *failed* War on Poverty has us in the hole for trillions w/no end in sight. Thank you LBJ (D) Texas.

. BS. Human beings who have been rendered non-persons and subjected to systematic torture should never be put on the back burner. What on earth has happened to you, JT? Your hatred of Obama appears to have twisted you into a moral disfigurement of near neocon-esque proportions. Your willingness to have the Gitmo crimes continue, frankly, makes me sick to my stomach.

Psst…..Arator…….AMERICANS FIRST…..remember that catchy phrase? As long as Americans are relegated to 2nd class citizenship in our judicial system, the Gitmo residents will have to take a back seat for me at least. Are you challenging what I posted about Americans being “lost” in our system? They come first my friend. And who said I want Gitmo left open? Were you AWOL from our LP anti-war dust up?? Apparently your idolization of the brown/black/white/ Hawaiian/ Asian/Muslim/Christian political Madison Ave creation has you blinded.

Indeed. You are apparently quite comfortable with what he does and wouldn't mind having it continue on and become insitutionalized in a successor administration, just so long as the president/tyrant/torturer/false- imprisoner/mass- murderer-in- chief continues to be "white".

LOL. Me comfortable w/Bush b/c he’s “white.”????

First, why the “---” around the word white? Are you guilty b/c that’s the way the good Lord put you here? I suspect yes. And please show me anywhere where I defended Bush? Like your leftist cheerleaders, I’m on record as saying I’d throw a kegger if AF1 took a terminal steep dive.

Grow up, whitey. The blacks aren’t going to cut you a break if you flash them a Democrat voting card. Most I've met while working hate you for your color. I learned this the hard way when Obama-loving candy asses were still in diapers.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-14   16:36:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Arator (#10)

You think McCain will do anything about gas and food when the primary cause of our economic distress is the war in Iraq (and potential war with Iran) that he wants to continue (and expand)?

No, the primary cause of our economic distress is the Federal Reserve System with a fiat currency which fosters this welfare/warfare state. Is Obama talking about that? If he were, he'd have my support and my vote.

You are apparently quite comfortable with what he does and wouldn't mind having it continue on and become institutionalized in a successor administration, just so long as the president/tyrant/torturer/false- imprisoner/mass- murderer-in-chief continues to be "white".

Why was it necessary for you to bring up race, yet again, in this thread where discussion of the topic at hand has nothing at all to do with Obama's race? It appears to me that you Obama people are the ones who cannot get beyond the "color" issue.

christine  posted on  2008-06-14   18:41:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Arator (#10)

Explain the difference (if any) between Obmama and McCain on:
1. Global warming
2. Illegal aliens
3. Income tax
4. Federal reserve
5. Monetary policy
6. Nafta

I guess we can wait. And wait. And wait.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-14   18:52:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: christine, Arator (#14)

Why was it necessary for you to bring up race, yet again, in this thread where discussion of the topic at hand has nothing at all to do with Obama's race? It appears to me that you Obama people are the ones who cannot get beyond the "color" issue.

Arator is surely the first person I have ever known of who is so ashamed of being white that he would vote for Jesse Jackson as emperor of the world just because he is black. Sad, ain't it?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-14   18:54:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Arator (#10)

Soros, Brzezinski, Rohjatyn, Rudman Running Obama Barak Obama Fronts Wall Street's Infrastructure Swindle - What Change Really Means

Excerpt:

Since 9/11 America has certainly turned into a top-down police state, but true post-modern fascism requires a popular movement to usher it into power. Bush has created a dictatorship out of the Presidency, now the next step towards fascism is being marketed to exploit the desire for change. The depressed national mood, due to the war and economic recession/depression has compromised sane reasoning and courageous opposition needed now more than ever. This has created the conditions for a newcomer to magically appear with a message of hope, using the mantra 'Change', wrapped in a swooning fever that has infected the young and left liberal excuse machines, such as 'Move On' who were never serious about stopping Bush/ Cheney and the war.

Since he passed his audition at the Democratic convention in 2004, Senator Obama has been taken over by George Soros and other hedge fund millionaires to launch a campaign out of nowhere, based on nothing but rhetoric and Wall Street millions. As darling of the rich elitist Kennedy/Kerry/Dean wing of the Democratic Party, Obama's pseudo-Camelot will deliver Wall Street and the Anglo- American financiers the goods while disguised in a patina of racial teflon and faux populism from the upper crust. For substance ask, where is the bill in the Senate by Kennedy/Kerry/Obama calling for a freeze on all foreclosures? Where's their filibuster against the war? Where is a real minimumn wage in the form of a living wage? Where is impeachment of Bush-Cheney? Why did Senator Obama move against raising heating oil assistance to the poor in the recent spending bill?

christine  posted on  2008-06-14   19:02:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: James Deffenbach (#16)

Arator...is a white guy?

robnoel  posted on  2008-06-14   19:08:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robnoel (#18)

Yeah, kinda hard to believe though since he seems to be so ashamed of it.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-14   19:12:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: James Deffenbach, Arator (#16)

well, in fairness to Arator, i don't believe he'd go that far, but i do think he's lost perspective on the issues (the ones you enumerated in your post above) that would be change that we can believe in.

christine  posted on  2008-06-14   19:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Arator (#3)

What the hell are you pinging me for? I don't need to read this or your bullshit.

I'll be, as always, voting for someone in a third party.

I don't participate in the two party fraud. I can't vote in good conscience for selected criminals by the REPS or DEMS.

Do not ping me ever again on this issue.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2008-06-14   19:38:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: christine (#17)

Things ain't lookin' too good, are they? If this isn't the endgame, I don't know what is.

Esso  posted on  2008-06-14   19:48:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: christine (#20)

well, in fairness to Arator, i don't believe he'd go that far,

I never used to believe he would sell out to a statist whore like Obama either but I have learned such is not the case.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-14   19:50:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: christine, Arator (#20)

I still think he's pulling our legs :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-14   20:10:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Jethro Tull (#24)

If he is then he needs to come clean because he has been singing the praises of Saint Obama for too long.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-14   20:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: James Deffenbach, Arator (#25)

I know Arator for more than 10 years. we battled together on tFR against Bob Dole and G. Bush. We were both banned numerous times for our America First position. He KNOWS in his heart my feelings about the GOP. I can't believe he did a 180 into the lap of a socialist. And if he has, he needs to explain why the change, and how, IHO, an Obama presidency benefits America.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-14   20:32:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Arator, christine, Jethro Tull, rowdee, Peppa (#0)

"These are unlawful combatants. They are not American citizens, and I think we should pay attention to Justice Roberts' opinion in this decision," McCain said.

_____________________________________

Why is it that our govt can't successfully prosecute unless they can prejudice the courts with phrases like "unlawful combatants" and "illegal tax protesters"?

They want to invoke these made up phrases and magically dismiss all cogent arguments filed by the defense, and be relieved of the responsibility of proving jurisdiction and responding to points of law.

We've seen this many times in tax cases.

We ask them to show us the law and their reply is "This has already been settled by the courts. There is a law somewhere but we can't be bothered showing it to you just now, and only an illegal tax protester would demand to see it!" Even though the law has always required the prosecution to invoke jurisdiction by citing the statute or constitution (in cases of original jurisdiction) as part of the prima facie case! (This means the first page of the indictment, folks)

If McCain and Bush are successful in making a media created designation "unlawful combatants" stick then we are a nation of men not laws. Fortunately, the SCOTUS will have no part of this obscene (and legally baseless) appeal to the ignorance of the masses.

I can't find the quote just now but today I scanned the front page of the paper on the news rack and the court said in effect that, it's well within their power to review any claim by the executive to imprison people on his own authority, and they did that and found it unconstitutional. WHY? Because nowhere in the constitution is the president given the power to create a special class of non persons in limbo who can be held incommunicado for the rest of their lives based on suspicion, charges or other criteria that he isn't required to reveal.

Hell, King George was never that supremely arrogant!

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-06-14   21:08:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: HOUNDDAWG (#27)

If McCain and Bush are successful in making a media created designation "unlawful combatants" stick then we are a nation of men not laws.

This is exactly what they've done, dawg (G'damn piece of paper), and that's why, unfortunate as it is, those 600 souls in Gitmo are on their own, just as we are. I simply don't understand the convolutions some are undergoing regarding habeas. We might enjoy the benefit, but what good is it when a body can be snatched off the street, sans charges, and left to rot in the local prison? Clinton was a better politician than Bush. He'd have set up an ad hoc court, paraded these folks in front of a black robbed lawyer within 48 hours, slapped them w/no bail and this issue would be moot. Bush being a functional moron, decided to be the 'tard he is and do an unconstitutional EO.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-14   21:19:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: farmfriend, Critter, Arator, Jethro Tull, James Deffenbach, castletrash, christine, robnoel (#5) (Edited)

Intrepid American journalist:

Ah...Sir...Senator McCain...excuse me, sir...question...: Suppose back in the late 60s, a court in North Vietnam had ruled that "enemy combantants" held by the North Vietnam government for YEARS without trial, hearings, charges, or representation ruled that those "enemy combatants" should be granted access to trial, hearings, charges and representation in North Vietnam Courts?

What would you think about such a ruling by a North Vietnam Court?

McCain: GGGRRRR. F--- You.

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

wbales  posted on  2008-06-14   22:39:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

I have a feeling that the ultimate targets will be people of my ilk once the precedent is firmly established.

Imagine this story:

"Al Qaeda is now employing a multi pronged weapon against America The Beautiful!

Intelligence sources report that enemy factions are using non compliance with the tax laws to undermine 'our freedoms' and 'hiding behind discredited constitutional arguments and 100 yr old court cases' in their attempt to bring Merka to her knees!" Despite their frivolous claims they hope to logjam the courts and exhaust taxpayers' resources while disseminating fictitious tax information using names such as LIBERTY MEN and RESTORE OUR CONSTITUTION as front groups. (Picture a smiling, blond-eyed blue haired European in the front room preaching to a bunch of hayseeds while some swarthy, cutthroat foreigner feeds info into his earpiece in Farsi or Arabic in the back room)

Once that story gets airborne (like the previous attempt to link zealous gun ownership with sinister militia groups) then the biggest thorn in the FEDs' ass, tax resisters, constitutionalists, militia/ breakaway states types and enemies of the federal reserve can also be warehoused and bounced like rubber balls to keep the marine guards physically fit.

And, dedicated govt types need not be harassed by us pain in the ass "failure-to-volunteer-types" ever again.

And then the constitution will finally be relegated to the lowly status of "just a goddamned piece of paper" as George W. Bush (PBUH) said.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-06-14   22:40:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: wbales (#29)

i'd love to see that for real.

christine  posted on  2008-06-14   22:56:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: christine, Jethro Tull (#14) (Edited)

Why was it necessary for you to bring up race, yet again, in this thread where discussion of the topic at hand has nothing at all to do with Obama's race?

Because race is the only reason why JT, an otherwise rational and freedom- loving person, would contort himself into a neocon/McCain/Gitmo enabler, as he again made clear in his response to my outrage at his desire to put Gitmo on the back burner:

JT: Grow up, whitey. The blacks aren’t going to cut you a break if you flash them a Democrat voting card.

When it comes down to a clear choice between reempowering the neocons and fascists under a successor McCain administration and electing our first black president, JT clearly prefers the former. And then he has the unmitigated gall to call that putting "America First", which is an outrageous insult to the antiglobalization/antiwar movement.

Gitmo is not America, first, last or otherwise. It, like so much else the GOP has done in the last seven years, is completely anathema to everything this country is supposed to be about. But, apparently, JT thinks having a black president is even moreso, so he's willing to accept the continuation and possible permanent institutionalization of this abomination under a President McCain. That puts him on a different planet from me, frankly. That's an alien perspective I just can't understand. So, I can no longer view JT as I once did. He's morphed like FReepers did back in 2000, from one thing into its opposite. From pro-freedom to pro-fascism, pro-torture and pro- tyranny. If he's willing to put Gitmo on the back burner to rationalize his opposition to Barack Obama, what other fundamental American values is he willing to jettison in order to keep a black man out of the Oval Office?

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-06-15   1:08:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Arator, jethro tull, peppa, christine (#32)

When it comes down to a clear choice between reempowering the neocons and fascists under a successor McCain administration and electing our first black president, JT clearly prefers the former.

You may read well but your comprehension is totally lacking, or, just perhaps Christine is correct, seeing "black" is more important than discussing the matter at hand in a truthful and factual manner.

ANYONE reading JT will see his views on any and ALL threads to contain one and the same theme at all times, namely, NONE OF THE ABOVE.

Because of that it is totally dishonest of you to inject race to carry your viewpoint.

Crying "racism" is the same intimidation method used in crying "anti-semitism" so freely by some people. It is odd that you now see racism under every stone unturned, when in fact JT consistently rejects all of the system candidates.

Doing so makes you disingenuous and dishonest.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-06-15   1:35:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: christine, HOUNDDAWG (#31)

i'd love to see that for real.

And for real, we'll never see it.

The stance taken on this ruling by alleged "conservative" Americans is beyond idiotic. If there is a God, it shall be them and thier ilk who are kidnapped by a foreign government and held for YEARS without charges, trials, or hearings.

Further, I'm in line with the HOUNDDAWG. I think this is being set up as precedent for domestic application down the road.

EVERY AMERICAN of at least one functioning brain cell should be blessing the US Supreme Court for this ruling!

I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise.

wbales  posted on  2008-06-15   6:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Arator, *Racist 2008* (#32)

and electing our first black president

Guess what Arator? The chosen one isn't black. Surprise, he is more white than anything. He is a mixed white/Arab. He doesn't have enough negro in him to even qualify as an African American by US law.

BTW, when you make everything about race, you become a racist, you know that?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-06-15   8:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Jethro Tull, Arator (#26)

I know Arator for more than 10 years. we battled together on tFR against Bob Dole and G. Bush. We were both banned numerous times for our America First position. He KNOWS in his heart my feelings about the GOP. I can't believe he did a 180 into the lap of a socialist. And if he has, he needs to explain why the change, and how, IHO, an Obama presidency benefits America.

I have read a lot of what he has posted on LP, FU and on here. He never struck me as someone who had, or would, sell out to the establishment whores but it appears he has done so.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-15   9:25:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Arator, Cynicom, all (#33)

Arator.

Simply because I find the Bush abuse of Habeas no worse than any other constitutional abuse we've been treated to over the years makes me a McCain supporter? Absurd. You know better. My Habeas argument is simple; it's nearly useless unless it is accompanied by reform of what is a bailable and non- bailable offense, and, a restoration of reasonable bail for all. This argument has broken down by party lines, and therefore I understand your convolutions. Your Saviour promises to restore this right and all I'm suggesting is once it's restored, then what? You'll see Gitmoese paraded in front of a lawyer within 48 hours and then slammed w/either an unreasonable bail or no bail. Without bail reform, Habeas is just another abused right.

That you fell for this political argument and its manipulation, is indicative of the leftist journey you've begun.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-15   9:29:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: wbales (#29)

Ah...Sir...Senator McCain...excuse me, sir...question...: Suppose back in the late 60s, a court in North Vietnam had ruled that "enemy combantants" held by the North Vietnam government for YEARS without trial, hearings, charges, or representation ruled that those "enemy combatants" should be granted access to trial, hearings, charges and representation in North Vietnam Courts?

What would you think about such a ruling by a North Vietnam Court?

McCain: GGGRRRR. F--- You.

LOL! Looks about right.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-06-15   9:34:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Arator (#32)

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stop-abuse-and-suicides-in-pennsylvania-prisons

Sound familiar?

America first.

Stop Abuse And Suicides In Pennsylvania PrisonsTarget:The Pennsylvania

Department of Corrections, The Governor of Pennsylvania, Amnesty International, ACLU, All Human Rights Groups, Religious Leaders, The Taxpayers of Pennsylvania, And all Other people Interested WorldwideSponsored by: Doreen (Dee) Hawk HERE

To:The Pennsylvania Department of Corrections, The Governor of Pennsylvania, Amnesty International, ACLU, All Human Rights Groups, Religious Leaders, The Taxpayers of Pennsylvania, And all Other people Interested Worldwide

Several inmates in Pennsyvania have reported the high number of suicides and attempted suicides, and abuse of inmates by prison staff. Many phone calls, faxes, and letters have been written to Pennsylvania wardens and others, but nothing is being done.

This petition is to bring awareness to the high number of suicides, attempted suicides, inmate deaths, and mental and physical abuse of inmates, by prison staff in the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections.

Inmates have reported to family and friends that there has been abuse, both mentally and physically by prison staff. Inmates are held in isolation for long periods of time. There have been reports of guards spitting in inmates food. Lack of medical and psychological evaluations, sleep deprivation, and lack of nutritional food. This goes against the Constitution of America's 8th amendment which states: excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, Nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted.

There have been several attempted suicides, and several inmates deaths by suicides, and other causes. This number is extremely high. Inmates families have proof and documentation, and will be watching this matter closely.

We the undersigned feel this matter should be investigated before there are more inmate deaths. These are prisons in the USA and not Abu Ghraib prison in Bagdad. Prisoners are not in prison to be punished, prison time is punishment enough. We demand equal and just treatments in Pennsylvania prisons.

The citizens and taxpayers of Pennsylvania should not be paying for punishment and inhumane treatment and their tax dollars should go to the rehabilitation of inmates, to provide the safe return of prisoners into their communities.To:The Pennsylvania Department of Corrections, The Governor of Pennsylvania, Amnesty International, ACLU, All Human Rights Groups, Religious Leaders, The Taxpayers of Pennsylvania, And all Other people Interested Worldwide

Several inmates in Pennsyvania have reported the high number of suicides and attempted suicides, and abuse of inmates by prison staff. Many phone calls, faxes, and letters have been written to Pennsylvania wardens and others, but nothing is being done.

This petition is to bring awareness to the high number of suicides, attempted suicides, inmate deaths, and mental and physical abuse of inmates, by prison staff in the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections.

Inmates have reported to family and friends that there has been abuse, both mentally and physically by prison staff. Inmates are held in isolation for long periods of time. There have been reports of guards spitting in inmates food. Lack of medical and psychological evaluations, sleep deprivation, and lack of nutritional food. This goes against the Constitution of America's 8th amendment which states: excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, Nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted.

There have been several attempted suicides, and several inmates deaths by suicides, and other causes. This number is extremely high. Inmates families have proof and documentation, and will be watching this matter closely.

We the undersigned feel this matter should be investigated before there are more inmate deaths. These are prisons in the USA and not Abu Ghraib prison in Bagdad. Prisoners are not in prison to be punished, prison time is punishment enough. We demand equal and just treatments in Pennsylvania prisons.

The citizens and taxpayers of Pennsylvania should not be paying for punishment and inhumane treatment and their tax dollars should go to the rehabilitation of inmates, to provide the safe return of prisoners into their communities.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-15   10:00:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Jethro Tull (#37)

This argument has broken down by party lines, and therefore I understand your convolutions.

Little correction is needed here.

Surely this is what you meant???

"This argument has broken down by party lines, and therefore I understand your convulsions".

Cynicom  posted on  2008-06-15   10:18:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Cynicom (#40)

Convolutions as in (political) twists, but convulsion is indeed a fine choice.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-06-15   10:25:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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