[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

High school is different now

Banks REMOVING CASH and nearing major DISASTER. Prof St Onge.

Did America Pick the Wrong Side in WWII?

Chicago in CHAOS – Mayor Tells Police to Stand Down as Trump Says ENOUGH Murder

Graham Linehan ARRESTED in UK for gender critical tweets - UK COLLAPSE IS IMMINENT

Cash Jordan: 400,000 Illegals ‘Forcibly Returned’ To Mexico… as NYC COLLAPSES

The ChatGPT CEO's Web Of Lies by Vanessa Wingardh

The Fall of the Israel Lobby Has Begun — And This Is Just the Start | Denzel Washington speech

'Statistically Almost Impossible' – 4 AfD Candidates Have Died 'Suddenly And Unexpectedly' Before Key State Election

Israel And The West Set The Stage For Next Round Of Warfare On Iran

Last night in Milan, an 18-year-old girl was beaten and raped while trying to catch a train home

Russia has developed a truly modern system of warfare.

Alberta's Independence and Finances

Daniela Cambone: 100% Loan Losses Loom as Fed Shrinks Balance Sheet-

Tucker Carlson

Cash Jordan: ICE HALTS 'Invasion Convoy'... ESCORTS 'Armada' of Illegals BACK to MEXICO

Cash Jordan: “We’re Coming In"... Migrant Mob ENTERS ICE HQ, Get ERASED By 'Deportation Unit'

Opioids More Likely To Kill Than Car Crashes Or Suicide

The association between COVID-19 “vaccines” and cognitive decline

Democrats Sink to Near Zero in New Gallup Poll, Theyre Just Not Satisfied

She Couldn't Read Her Own Diploma: Why Public Schools Pass Students but Fail Society

Peter Schiff: Gold To $6,000 Next Year, Dollar Index To 70

Russia Just Admitted Exactly What Everyone – But Trump – Already Knew About Putin's Ukraine Plans

Sex Offenses in London by Nationality

Greater Israel Collapses: Iran the Next Target

Before Jeffrey Epstein: The FINDERS

Cyprus: The Israeli Flood Has Become A Deluge

Israel Actually Slaughtered Their Own People On Oct 7th Says Israeli Newspaper w/ Max Blumenthal

UK Council Offers Emotional Support To Staff "Discomforted" By Seeing The National Flag

Inside the Underground City Where 700 Trucks Come and Go Every Day


Resistance
See other Resistance Articles

Title: AP Gets Worried
Source: newshoggers
URL Source: http://www.newshoggers.com/blog/2008/06/ap-gets-worried.html
Published: Jun 16, 2008
Author: Cernig
Post Date: 2008-06-16 17:53:11 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 1858
Comments: 11

AP Gets Worried

By Cernig

News of the Associated Press' bully-boy tactics against bloggers on Friday and the pushback Saturday and Sunday which has led a bipartisan boycott of AP to spread widely across the internet has hit the mainstream media after the weekend of bipartisan blogger buzz.

In a New York Times article today, Saul Hansell reports that AP agrees that it has been "heavy handed" in it's treatment of The Drudge Retort and dragged in its executives - presumably on Father's Day - for an emergency meeting to discuss the matter of Fair Use for bloggers. Jim Kennedy, AP's vice president and strategy director, told the NYT “We don’t want to cast a pall over the blogosphere by being heavy-handed, so we have to figure out a better and more positive way to do this.”

Mr. Kennedy said the company was going to meet with representatives of the Media Bloggers Association, a trade group, and others. He said he hopes that these discussions can all occur this week so that guidelines can be released soon.

Still, Mr. Kennedy said that the organization has not withdrawn its request that Drudge Retort remove the seven items. And he said that he still believes that it is more appropriate for blogs to use short summaries of A.P. articles rather than direct quotations, even short ones.

“Cutting and pasting a lot of content into a blog is not what we want to see,” he said. “It is more consistent with the spirit of the Internet to link to content so people can read the whole thing in context.”

In other words, while admitting their bullying tactics, saying they have "suspended" those tactics and saying they are going to rethink their policies, nothing has actually changed on the ground - the ridiculous DMCA takedowns for excerpts of 40 to 70 words that began the whole affair are still in force. Sheerest spin, just like Mr. Kennedy's previous comments which sounded good but were highly at odds with takedown suits for 40 word excerpts.

Simon Owens at Bloggasm spoke to Rogers Cadenhead about the AP's suits and what he was told also seems to contradict Kennedy's spin:

I asked Cadenhead why he thinks he has been targeted by the AP. “It’s possible that they’re just becoming more regressive in this area,” he replied. “If they’re up there selling a service that’s just headlines, titles and ledes, they can see what happens on blogs as a threat to that business. It’s hard to say though because for me they’re not communicating with me on any of this. There’s not really a dialog where they say ‘it’s OK for you to do this as long as you don’t do this.’ They’re saying everything is illegal…This is a social news site. I have to communicate to my users what’s permissible and what isn’t, but they make that difficult because they don’t tell anyone what’s allowed.”

And as Scott Rosenberg writes, the notion that the "spirit of the internet" is about linking and summarizing is in any case just bizarre.

We are apparently going to serve our readers better by paraphrasing and linking than by quoting and linking (as I just did). This strains credulity. The “spirit of the Internet” has always been about linking and excerpting. Actually, the “spirit of the Internet” is probably even more about wholesale copying. But that spirit has always had to make tradeoffs with businesses like the AP. I hope the company’s leaders continue to step back from the absurd brink they’ve conjured for themselves.

Over at BuzzMachine, Jeff Jarvis gives AP a salutory lesson in how that doesn't serve accuracy in blogging, by summarizing their position "without the quotes from the AP that might better state its stance (ahem)".

So, while AP is clearly worried by all the negative publicity they have generated by their self-admitted "heavy handed" moves, they want to talk fine but not really address the problem in a substantative way. Instead, they want to dictate a set of "guidelines" enforced by the overhanging threat of legal action. TechCrunch's Michael Arrington cuts through the spin to get at AP's real intent:

Those that disregard the guidelines risk being sued by the A.P., despite the fact that such use may fall under the concept of fair use.

The A.P. doesn’t get to make it’s own rule around how its content is used, if those rules are stricter than the law allows. So even thought they say they are making these new guidelines in the spirit of cooperation, it’s clear that, like the RIAA and MPAA, they are trying to claw their way to a set of legal property rights that don’t exist today. And like the RIAA and MPAA, this is done to protect a dying business model - paid content.

And so many more bloggers are likely to copy TechCrunch's policy:

So here’s our new policy on A.P. stories: they don’t exist. We don’t see them, we don’t quote them, we don’t link to them. They’re banned until they abandon this new strategy, and I encourage others to do the same until they back down from these ridiculous attempts to stop the spread of information around the Internet.

You can keep up with the AP boycott as it spreads across the internet and sign the petition here.

Update: The news of the boycott has jumped the pond - the UK's Guardian has noticed too.

Update 2: James Joyner, who sits on the board of Bob Cox's Media Bloggers Association, says that the MBA will be talking to AP about all this. I hope that James and the rest of the board of the MBA will be telling AP that any attempt to push their guidelines beyond what is already set down in law, and thus establish a creeping precedent they can use against bloggers later, will be unacceptable. Law Prof. Ann Althouse addresses that question well today.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: farmfriend (#0) (Edited)

Update 2: James Joyner, who sits on the board of Bob Cox's Media Bloggers Association, says that the MBA will be talking to AP about all this. I hope that James and the rest of the board of the MBA will be telling AP that any attempt to push their guidelines beyond what is already set down in law, and thus establish a creeping precedent they can use against bloggers later, will be unacceptable. Law Prof. Ann Althouse addresses that question well today.

Thanks for the article.

When no profit is involved, fair use of material that is posted on the Internet for broad spectrum reading is just that - fair use.

If AP would rather not have its articles recycled on the Internet for mass reading, then AP should insist that the buyers of its articles ( newspapers) remove AP contents from the newspapers' online editions.

I'm sure AP's print clients would be delighted to acquiese to its demands - NOT.

Wiki has a decent overview of "fair use."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

scrapper2  posted on  2008-06-16   18:42:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: farmfriend, Pinguinite, christine (#0)

Neil, I recall that a question relating to fair use came up at 4um in the past regarding how much to quote from an article - all or only some - and you suggested that actually it was a violation of copyright fair use laws to make any changes to the original article or even simple "commentary" word changes to the original title unless the changes was clearly indicated through the use of [].

Do you have a link for the source of your info, Neil?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-06-16   18:56:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: scrapper2 (#2)

Neil, I recall that a question relating to fair use came up at 4um in the past regarding how much to quote from an article - all or only some - and you suggested that actually it was a violation of copyright fair use laws to make any changes to the original article or even simple "commentary" word changes to the original title unless the changes was clearly indicated through the use of [].

I don't quite remember the discussion, but I think I would have said something a bit different from that.

Fair use is one issue. Making changes to content is another. Article titles are usually created by the newspapers that choose to reprint an AP article. That's common practice. Authors of work do not have a say in the title.

But I think if actual content of a work is modified without notation, there could be a copyright violation that has nothing to do with fair use. The whole point of copyright is to preserve the rights and full credit of the author, or in the greater picture, establish a legal environment that encourages people to produce compositions. Pretty much like the patent laws are supposed to encourage inventions.

On LP it was my rule at one time that article titles had to match the source site's title, adding additional comments in parans when appropriate, but that had nothing to do with copyright/fair use. That was just a house rule to keep people from slanting articles by rewording the title with their preferred spin.

Do you have a link for the source of your info, Neil?

About the only source I have on fair use matters is the court decision in the case of LAT and WP vs Free Republic. That decision outlines how fair use matters are adjudicated. But I don't have a link. Sorry.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-06-17   3:53:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Pinguinite (#3) (Edited)

But I think if actual content of a work is modified without notation, there could be a copyright violation that has nothing to do with fair use. The whole point of copyright is to preserve the rights and full credit of the author, or in the greater picture, establish a legal environment that encourages people to produce compositions. Pretty much like the patent laws are supposed to encourage inventions.

Okay, then maybe I have confused the dialogue on 4um that took place about copyright with fair use.

And on the subject of copyright and posting articles on 4um, should we post them in their entirety or should we post just a snip? Most people do the entire text but a few only do a snip. What's the appropriate thing to do without violating either copyright or fair use laws in your opinion?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-06-17   9:55:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: christine, All (#4)

And on the subject of copyright and posting articles on 4um, should we post them in their entirety or should we post just a snip? Most people do the entire text but a few only do a snip. What's the appropriate thing to do without violating either copyright or fair use laws in your opinion?

What is your preference, christine?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-06-17   10:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: scrapper2 (#5)

i don't think there's a problem with copying and pasting the entire article. that's my preference.

On LP it was my rule at one time that article titles had to match the source site's title, adding additional comments in parans when appropriate, but that had nothing to do with copyright/fair use. That was just a house rule to keep people from slanting articles by rewording the title with their preferred spin.

in regard to titles, that's my policy.

christine  posted on  2008-06-17   10:28:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: scrapper2, christine (#4)

And on the subject of copyright and posting articles on 4um, should we post them in their entirety or should we post just a snip? Most people do the entire text but a few only do a snip. What's the appropriate thing to do without violating either copyright or fair use laws in your opinion?

The actual rule here on 4um is Christine's call. But as for what constitutes fair use, there are 4 criteria that are weighed to decide whether a copyright infringement occurs. It's not a simple cut and dry litmus test that always definitively says whether infringement took place. In any particular case where infringement is alleged, each of these 4 criteria is considered separately and each one vaguely scores points for both the copyright owner or the user, and at the end whoever scores the most vague points is the winner.

Whether the entire work is used or just excerpts is only one of the 4 criteria. Others are the nature of the work (news matters of political/public interest always favor the bloggers), and how the material is used (is the user making money on it or is it just for non-profit/educational use) and whether the owner suffers any financial harm from that use. That's pretty much it.

That entire news articles are commonly posted here would factor toward infringement, but educational/non-profit use and the fact that it's matters of public interest both favor fair use here. That leaves financial harm as a question but even if that strongly favors AP, and at best I think it would only minimally favor them seeing how it's all over the web anyway AND 4um is not exactly competing with major news outlets for attention, it would still pretty much make the contest a tie. Based on this 4 points criteria, my personal opinion about the practice here is that it's most likely about 2.5 points for fair use here and 1.5 for infringement. which would make fair use win. That's my unprofessional opinion.

FR is pretty much a business since they pull in 250K a year in donations, and the WP and LAT might have gone after them for their proactive politics as much as anything else. I don't think the LAT and WP cares much for FR politics.

It should be noted that even though FR lost their case, the judge declined to order FR to not post leading paragraphs of any news article, as was moved by the plaintiffs.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-06-17   12:49:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pinguinite (#7)

thanks, Neil.

christine  posted on  2008-06-17   13:06:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pinguinite, christine (#7) (Edited)

The actual rule here on 4um is Christine's call.

Yes, I realize that but unfortunately I pressed the post button without double- checking that I had both your names in the "To" bar. That's why I immediately pinged christine after.

But it's good of you to remind lurkers/new posters who the boss is, Neil, since I so badly flubbed my "To" question.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-06-17   13:12:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: scrapper2 (#9)

No problem. That type mistake makes a good opportunity to remind everyone what the deal is. You weren't the first.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-06-17   14:22:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: christine (#6)

That was just a house rule to keep people from slanting articles by rewording the title with their preferred spin.

in regard to titles, that's my policy.

The titles are usually already worded with the preferred spin.

angle  posted on  2008-06-17   14:48:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]