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Title: Clark: Getting 'shot down in plane' doesn't make McCain qualified
Source:
CNN
URL Source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06 ... clark.mccain/?iref=mpstoryview
Published: Jun 30, 2008
Author: staff
Post Date: 2008-06-30 00:04:33 by Ferret Mike
Keywords: None
Views: 198
Comments: 13
(CNN) -- Retired U.S. Gen. Wesley Clark, a supporter of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, on Sunday questioned whether Sen. John McCain's military experience qualified him to be commander-in-chief. The McCain campaign called for Obama to condemn the remarks. The dust-up began with Clark's appearance Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation," where moderator Bob Schieffer asked him about his interview with the Huffington Post earlier this month. In the interview, Clark said McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, was "untested and untried." When Schieffer asked to explain the comment, Clark said he was referring to McCain's experience, or lack thereof, in setting national security policies and understanding the risk involved in such matters. "I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war. And he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility," said Clark, a former NATO commander who campaigned for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004. "He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not," Clark said. Schieffer noted that Obama did not have any of those experiences, nor had he "ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down." "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark said. In a statement released by the McCain campaign Sunday afternoon, retired Admiral Leighton "Snuffy" Smith criticized Clark's comment. "If Barack Obama wants to question John McCain's service to his country, he should have the guts to do it himself and not hide behind his campaign surrogates," Smith said. "If he expects the American people to believe his pledges about a new kind of politics, Barack Obama has a responsibility to condemn these attacks."
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#1. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
Anyone who thinks bombing inflatable tanks and cardboard bridges into oblivion is a smashing military victory or that Moscow won't mind when NATO peacekeepers open fire on Russian Paratroopers isn't qualified to play checkers; let alone judge who would make a better CIC.
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death." - Me. "If violence solved nothing, then weapons technology would have never advanced past crude clubs and rocks." - Me.
obama's smart enough not to go there. the point is mcCain served and in the minds of many americans is a war hero. obama knows it wouldn't be politically expedient for him to criticize mcCain on that hallowed issue.
DEFENDING AMERICA BY DAVID H. HACKWORTH ARE McCAIN'S HANDLERS PLAYING THE WRONG CARD? John McCain is being hailed by the press as a "genuine war hero." But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn? Or is his "war hero" status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country? For sure, McCain has the fruit-salad -- a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs. On a purely medal count basis, he out-weighs Murphy and Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy. McCain's valor awards are based on what happened in 1967, when during his 23d mission over Vietnam, he was shot down, seriously injured, captured and then spent 5 1/2 brutal years as a POW. In an attempt to find out exactly what the man did to earn these many hero awards, I asked his Senate office three times to provide copies of the narratives for each medal. I'm still waiting. I next went to the Pentagon. Within a week, I received a recap of his medals and many of the narratives that give the details of what he did. None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield -- where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as "boilerplate" and "part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnam-era) POWs." McCain's Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 -- the day after he was shot down -- to 8 December 1968 reads: "His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…" of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese. Yet in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." A Vietnam vet detractor says, "He received the nation's third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!" The rest of his valor awards -- issued automatically every year while he was a POW -- read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: "By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces." Yet McCain's conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the anti-war movement. Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs. All inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts. A former POW says "No man witnessed another man during interrogations… We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell." The U.S. Navy says two eye-witnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eye-witnesses, less himself and his captors. And they're not talking. Our POWs in Vietnam were treated appallingly. The Viets would either break a POW or kill him. POWs provided info beyond name, rank and serial number or they didn't come back. Based on these stalwart men's horrific experiences, the Code of Conduct has been changed. A POW says, "Now the training is to give them something… don't risk permanent damage to health, mind or body." McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he "just followed orders." McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card.
No, but sitting in an airplane and NOT getting shot down worked well for Dubya. An amazing statement from Wesley, I wonder if he's completely on board for Obama, this seems like a shot designed to help McCain rather than Obie. After all, he does owe Bill a favor or two.
Col. Hackworth also pointed out that giving the bronze star to Jessica Lynch cheapened the medal for men who sacrificed for it. She was seriously injured, captured, raped and brutalized and survived long enough for the Iraqis to bring her back to us. She has also stated for the record that her medal and hero story were patriotic fluff, and to her credit she didn't go along with the lies.
"I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh lord Ive been waiting for this moment, all my life, oh lord Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh lord, oh lord"
Well they sure didn't respect Kerry's service which pissed me off grandly. I plan on returning the favor in regard to McCain, and I hope he gets reamed for his service.
As former military you should be better able to evaluate the records of both McKooK and Kerry. Neither were heros, the only difference is that McCain was a professional doing a job that was expected, Kerry tried desperately to avoid all service taking deferment one after the other. As former military, I had no respect for either, having served with both types.
It's true that being a POW doesn't qualify somebody to be President. The question is, Clarke obviously thinks he's fit to be President. What are his special qualifications other than almost starting a war with Russia over Kosovo (to the disgust of the Brits and every other NATO country involved)? And Clark's only real problem with Iraq is that he isn't the one running things over there. Those who think that Obama is an "anti-war" candidate should pay attention to the fact that Clark is on his VP short list. As I've said before, Wesley Clark makes McCain look like the Dalai Lama.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
POW's Say John McCain Is A Lying Skunk !!!!
point. however, i still think that obama knows that criticism on mcCain on that issue could very well prove to be much more of a negative for himself than a positive. i also think that mcCain will steer clear of playing the race card for the same reason.
Bush lauded Kerry's record, it was a a 527 group Swift that boated him. Obama should not attack McCain's record, that is what a 527 group does. And the much rakers deserve a taste of their own medicine. This will happen, and I'll help the effort.
I am not particularly impressed with either man's record, I am talking about pay back for a thoroughly unfair and inappropriate treatment of someone over his military service. Swift boating reduced the value of being a veteran for everybody who served. I never even joined in on the questioning of Bush's record on Time.Come/Politics where I posted in 1999 when this all came out about his AWOL and how he was handed the billet on a gold platter. That's what I am talking about.
Retired U.S. Gen. Wesley Clark, a supporter of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, on Sunday questioned whether Sen. John McCain's military experience qualified him to be commander-in-chief.
#2. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
"If Barack Obama wants to question John McCain's service to his country,
#3. To: christine (#2)
If we want to hear from a real war hero its my hope that Col Hackworths voice rises from dead
#4. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
#5. To: robnoel (#3)
#6. To: christine (#2)
"obama's smart enough not to go there. the point is mcCain served and in the minds of many americans is a war hero. obama knows it wouldn't be politically expedient for him to criticize mcCain on that hallowed issue."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#7. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
Well they sure didn't respect Kerry's service which pissed me off grandly.
#8. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
#9. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#8)
#10. To: Cynicom, Ferret Mike (#7)
#11. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
Well they sure didn't respect Kerry's service which pissed me off grandly
#12. To: christine (#11)
"point. however, i still think that obama knows that criticism on mcCain on that issue could very well prove to be much more of a negative for himself than a positive. i also think that mcCain will steer clear of playing the race card for the same reason."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#13. To: Cynicom (#7)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
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