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Title: US elections: Obama clarifies remarks on Iraq withdrawal timeline
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/200 ... 3/barackobama.uselections20081
Published: Jul 3, 2008
Author: Daniel Nasaw in Washington
Post Date: 2008-07-03 18:23:13 by angle
Keywords: None
Views: 322
Comments: 28

He had said he plans to have most US combat troops home by the end of his first term.

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama today said he would "refine" his position on withdrawal from Iraq after meeting with military commanders there this summer, then later insisted he had not softened his commitment to remove US combat forces with 16 months of taking office.

Speaking with reporters at an airport in Fargo, North Dakota, the Illinois senator appeared open to altering his campaign pledge to have US combat troops home from Iraq within 16 months of taking office.

"I am going to do a thorough assessment when I'm there,'' he said. "I'm sure I'll have more information and continue to refine my policy."

The Republican party leapt at the comments and accused Obama of reversing himself, and at a press conference later, Obama sought to clarify his remarks.

"Let me be as clear as I can be: I tend to end this war," he said. "I have seen no information that contradicts the notion that we can bring out troops out safely at a pace of one to two brigades per month," with all out within 16 months. "This is the same position that I had four months ago."

Obama founded his campaign on a strident anti-war message, which dates back to a speech he gave in Chicago in 2002, while still a state senator.

Republican nominee John McCain was an early supporter of the troop surge in Iraq and has backed the war from the beginning.

He said he will keep US forces there to maintain the security gains the surge has facilitated. He has said he plans to have most US combat troops home by the end of his first term.

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#1. To: All (#0)

www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11517.html

Obama to 'rewrite' Iraq plan

The original Obama plan, still on his website, promises: “Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.”

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   18:24:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: angle (#0)

Obama clarifies remarks

I can clarify it for you -- he's a lying politician.


I've already said too much.

MUDDOG  posted on  2008-07-03   18:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: All (#0)

tothecenter.com/news.php?readmore=5921

Iraq Undermines Support for GOP Among Military Members

According to political observers, the ongoing war in Iraq has caused many servicemen and women to forego their usual support for Republicans this year in favor of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. This is trend is no small thing for the U.S. military.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   18:26:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: MUDDOG (#2) (Edited)

he's a lying politician

oxymoron or redundancy?

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   18:27:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: angle (#4)

I wonder if the scales will fall from the eyes of his disciples.


I've already said too much.

MUDDOG  posted on  2008-07-03   18:31:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: All (#4)

www.americanthinker.com/b...last_frontier_of_fli.html

Reading what his advisers are saying, you begin to see how Obama has been able to appear to be all things to all people on his Iraq withdrawal plans while dishonestly pandering to his base:

The last frontier of flip-flops approaches for Barack Obama, and even his surrogates can't seem to guess which way the wind blows on any given day. In three different appearances over the last two days, David Axelrod, Susan Rice, and Claire McCaskill all offered competing visions of Obama's policy on Iraq. First, we have Axelrod, Obama's chief strategist, insisting that his January 2007 plan was still operative yesterday: ..."he’s always said that he would listen to the advice of commanders on the ground, that that would factor into his thinking. He’s also said we have to be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. So he’s been very consistent on this point."
Ed Lasky points to this article that clearly shows Obama saying he would go ahead with a withdrawal regardless of what the generals said:
"Because the commander-in-chief sets the mission, Charlie. That's not the role of the generals. And one of the things that's been interesting a out the president's approach lately has been to say, 'Well, I'm just taking cues from General Petraeus.' Well, the president sets the mission. The general and our troops carry out that mission.
Senator Claire McCaskill, Obama's c-chair, confirmed the fact that Obama would not necessarily heed what the generals had to say:
However, on the same day, Senator Claire McCaskill — Obama’s campaign co-chair — told MS-NBC that advice on the ground wouldn’t deflect Obama from his commitment to withdraw troops or change his plans at all.
And finally, Obama's foreign policy adviser Susan Rice muddies the waters further:
He has said that the best military advice he’s received leads us to believe that we can safely withdraw our forces at the pace of one to two combat brigades per month, and depending on the number of combat brigades he inherits, our best estimate is that that could be accomplished in roughly 16 months. That’s not a deadline. That’s a timetable, and obviously if Senator Obama has said on numerous occasions, he will listen to his commanders on the ground, he will follow and heed their advice as he decides how at the strategic level we must proceed. So he will do this very carefully and responsibly as he always said but he will do it.
Three advisers. Three different plans for Iraq while the candidate continues to insist to wild applause from his base that he will leave Iraq immediately. The brazenness of this flip flopping is one thing. It is the rank dishonesty of a candidate seeking to be all things to all people that should worry us. Why? Because he will have more money than God in which to convince people of whatever he wishes to say. And that should worry all Americans.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   18:32:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: MUDDOG (#5)

I wonder if the scales will fall from the eyes of his disciples.

Very difficult to say. It's a big test, imo.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   18:34:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: angle (#6) (Edited)

It is the rank dishonesty of a candidate seeking to be all things to all people that should worry us. Why?

It just shows that under the two-party system, the candidates can go back on their primary stands once they get the nomination. The candidates figure, where you gonna go?

So turn on, tune in, drop out of the two-party system.


I've already said too much.

MUDDOG  posted on  2008-07-03   18:40:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: angle (#7) (Edited)

Obama is starting to look like the worst betrayal yet.

We've had over a generation of betrayal after betrayal, lie after lie and I thought that a significant segment of the elites of this country had finally realized that they needed to retrench to regain some legitimacy or risk a system-wide collapse. I had hoped that an Obama administration was the means that they had chosen to that end. If Obama goes back on his war promise, I was wrong. It's "fuck you" and "let us steal more of your stuff" for at least another eight years as the country spirals further down the the toilet bowl into the sewer.

If Obama proves to be just one more lying pol in a long succession of lying pols, there will be no retrenchment, no attempt to appease an outraged populous to regain some legitimacy for a failing system. Instead, the elites of this country will have proven for one last time that they are certifiably insane, nihilistic and totally criminal. Should this be once again confirmed by in- your-face betrayals of the coming Obama administration, we will be left with a no-win choice - risk even worse bedlam via the attempted and probably violent overthrow of an irredeemably corrupt and criminal regime or abandon our country to its inevitable destruction in favor of some alien third world backwater/"refuge". Only, every third world backwater/"refuge" is also being systematically plundered by our criminal government, making them no refuge at all. Come to think of it, there is nowhere to run, so we will have no choice. If our elites prove themselves unwilling to change course even now, as the country teeters on the edge of an abyss, we will have no other option but to take our future into our own hands and overthrow them (with violence, if necessary) or die trying.

Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.

Arator  posted on  2008-07-03   20:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Arator (#9) (Edited)

Obama is starting to look like the worst betrayal yet.

We've had over a generation of betrayal after betrayal, lie after lie and I thought that a significant segment of the elites of this country had finally realized that they needed to retrench to regain some legimitimacy or risk a system-wide collapse. I had hoped that an Obama administration was the means that they had chosen to that end. If Obama goes back on his war promise, I was wrong. It's "fuck you" and "let us steal more of your stuff" for at least another eight years as the country spirals further down the the toilet bowl into the sewer.

If Obama proves to be just one more lying pol in a long succession of lying pols, there will be no retrenchment, no attempt to appease an outraged populous to regain some legitimacy for a failing system. Instead, the elites of this country will have proven for one last time that they are certifiably insane, nihilistic and totally criminal. Should this be once again confirmed by in- your-face betrayals of the coming Obama administration, we will be left with a no-win choice - risk even worse bedlam via the attempted and probably violent overthrow of an irredeemably corrupt and criminal regime or abandon our country to its inevitable destruction in favor of some alien third world backwater/"refuge". Only, every third world backwater/"refuge" is also being systematically plundered by our criminal government, making them no refuge at all. Come to think of it, there is nowhere to run, so we will have no choice. If our elites prove themselves unwilling to change course even now, as the country teeters on the edge of an abyss, we will have no other option but to take our future into our own hands and overthrow them (with violence, if necessary) or die trying.

You just need to get re-focused.

They have planned tediously for a completion of the NAU by 2010.

The mcCain/obama/CFR/Rockefeller/Bilderberg Society are the architects.

They know that our currency must be completely collapsed (our society collapsed) to come out with their new super state / regional currency.

Welcome to the North American Soviet Union / World Order.

Would you like to help us derail it and stall the establishment's plans for us? ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-03   20:40:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Arator, Jethro tull, Christine (#9)

Obama is starting to look like the worst betrayal yet.

You write and think well.

You need to attach your thinking to historical reality, for the good of this country.

Politicians lie, all politicians lie, for a reason, namely to get elected. With that in mind, what matters is if elected how many promises are they able and allowed to keep.

Obama has gotten the nomination from the "party", partly with his promise to withdraw from Iraq, now he needs to win the Presidency. He faces reality and has to admit he fooled the party, now he will have to fool the country.

Reality is we will NEVER leave the Middle East, this country will bleed to death there, whether it be Obama or MckooK. Supporting and voting either one is hastening the death knell of this country.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-07-03   20:51:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Rotara (#10)

Would you like to help us derail it and stall the establishment's plans for us? ;-)

By "following your heart"? Spare me the diatribe and dish out the goods. My patience is thin on blowhards these days.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   21:00:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Arator (#9)

God it's great to have you making sense.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   21:02:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: angle, Rotara (#12)

Spare me the diatribe and dish out the goods. My patience is thin on blowhards these days.

Fine, lets see you ADD anything original just for once.

You are fast on the lip with no thinking attached, as usual.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-07-03   21:04:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Arator (#9)

excellent post. i never really understood until now that you thought that perhaps there was a fracture within the shadow government and that that was the basis of your hope for an obama presidency. that makes more sense to me.

it takes a big person to admit when they're wrong. few are able to do that. thanks for your honesty and 'tug at the heartstrings' post.

christine  posted on  2008-07-03   21:38:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: angle (#12)

Spare me the diatribe and dish out the goods.

Derail and stall? You don't know what that means?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-03   21:41:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Cynicom (#14)

Fine, lets see you ADD anything original just for once.

You are fast on the lip with no thinking attached, as usual.

We need millions of 'leaders' following their hearts.

Not millions of sheep following a man.

IMO ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-03   21:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Rotara (#17)

Not millions of sheep following a man.

Millions are finding it soothing balm for their conscience to follow a BLACK Pied Piper.

In fact I suspect it is the white portion of Obummer that is running a con on both blacks and white guilters.

I find that hilarious.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-07-03   21:47:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Cynicom (#18)

I know.

In these times, millions of independent thinking Americans can make the Iraqi insurgency look like a walk in the park. ;-)

Organization in the individual is all we have left.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-03   21:50:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Rotara (#16) (Edited)

Derail and stall? You don't know what that means?

What exactly do you mean by it? Last question on this matter.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   23:13:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Cynicom (#14)

Butt out olde fart.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   23:18:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: angle (#21)

Another intellectual endeavor in self portrayal.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-07-03   23:21:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Cynicom (#22)

Another smug self-righteous attempt to condescend to your lessers.

angle  posted on  2008-07-03   23:29:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: angle (#23)

Another smug self-righteous attempt to condescend to your lessers.

Really?

It is I that whines of being an uneducated, bitter small towner, that works at Wal-Mart which was a step up for my kind. You did agree with that or am I mistaken?

Not being allowed to even approach the first rung, we of the unwashed can only look up. We do serve a purpose for those that harbor the inferior/superior syndrome.

So there.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-07-03   23:37:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: angle (#20)

What exactly do you mean by it? Last question on this matter.

If you don't know exactly what I mean, then what exactly does it matter? ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-03   23:44:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: (#24)

We do serve a purpose for those that harbor the inferior/superior syndrome.

I think you caught the bug.

angle  posted on  2008-07-04   6:28:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Arator (#9)

Good post, A....and this from a man who is still knee deep in Spam thanks to Y2K :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-07-04   12:11:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: iconoclast, Arator (#9)

Obama is starting to look like the worst betrayal yet.

We've had over a generation of betrayal after betrayal, lie after lie and I thought that a significant segment of the elites of this country had finally realized that they needed to retrench to regain some legitimacy or risk a system-wide collapse. I had hoped that an Obama administration was the means that they had chosen to that end. If Obama goes back on his war promise, I was wrong. It's "fuck you" and "let us steal more of your stuff" for at least another eight years as the country spirals further down the the toilet bowl into the sewer.

If Obama proves to be just one more lying pol in a long succession of lying pols, there will be no retrenchment, no attempt to appease an outraged populous to regain some legitimacy for a failing system. Instead, the elites of this country will have proven for one last time that they are certifiably insane, nihilistic and totally criminal. Should this be once again confirmed by in- your-face betrayals of the coming Obama administration, we will be left with a no-win choice - risk even worse bedlam via the attempted and probably violent overthrow of an irredeemably corrupt and criminal regime or abandon our country to its inevitable destruction in favor of some alien third world backwater/"refuge". Only, every third world backwater/"refuge" is also being systematically plundered by our criminal government, making them no refuge at all. Come to think of it, there is nowhere to run, so we will have no choice. If our elites prove themselves unwilling to change course even now, as the country teeters on the edge of an abyss, we will have no other option but to take our future into our own hands and overthrow them (with violence, if necessary) or die trying.

icon, i wanted you to see Arator's response to Obama's flipflop. what is your response to the points he made?

christine  posted on  2008-07-05   12:59:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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