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Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: Australian Researchers Warn of Global Cooling
Source: Daily Tech (Aus)
URL Source: http://www.dailytech.com/Australian ... lobal+Cooling/article12250.htm
Published: Jul 4, 2008
Author: Michael Asher
Post Date: 2008-07-04 01:00:25 by Original_Intent
Keywords: Global, cooling, warming
Views: 630
Comments: 86

"Spin-orbit coupling" to blame; effects could last decades.

A new paper published by the Astronomical Society of Australia is warning of upcoming global cooling due to lessened solar activity. The study, written by three Australian researchers, has identified what is known as a "spin-orbit coupling" affecting the rotation rate of the sun. That rotation, in turn, is linked to the intensity of the solar cycle and climate changes here on Earth.

The study's lead author, Ian Wilson, explains further, "[The paper] supports the contention that the level of activity on the Sun will significantly diminish sometime in the next decade and remain low for about 20 - 30 years."

According to Wilson, the result is a strong, rapid pulse of global cooling, "On each occasion that the Sun has done this in the past the World’s mean temperature has dropped by ~ 1 - 2 C."

A 2 C drop would be twice as large as all the warming the earth has experienced since the start of the industrial era, and would be significant enough to impact global agriculture output.

Earlier this year, astronomers from around the world noted solar activity was suspiciously low; some began predicting global cooling at that time. Since then, activity has remained far below average, with it now being over two months since a single sunspot has appeared on the surface of the sun.

In May, a team of German climatologists published research stating that, due to "natural effects", global warming would halt for up to 15 years.

The new paper appears in the June issue of PASA, Publications of the Astronomical Society of Australia.

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#1. To: farmfriend, FormerLurker, christine, Ferret Mike, angle, Chicken Little, Algore, all (#0)

(((((The Sky is "falling" Ping or Global One or the Other Ping)))))

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-07-04   1:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Original_Intent, *Agriculture-Environment* (#1)

Landscheidt minimum here we come.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   1:14:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: farmfriend (#2)

Think Down Coat.

However, the Global Warming scare has been so thoroughly sold that there will still be people who insist we are experiencing Global Warming with an overall decline in Global temperatures.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-07-04   1:22:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Original_Intent (#3)

there will still be people who insist we are experiencing Global Warming with an overall decline in Global temperatures

Such are the discussions I'm having on other forums. I think past climates are the key though I believe there are problems with climate proxies. The last time the sun was like this we had cooling. Stands to reason we will see cooling again.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   2:23:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Original_Intent (#3)

However, the Global Warming scare has been so thoroughly sold that there will still be people who insist we are experiencing Global Warming with an overall decline in Global temperatures.

If it gets cold enough, they will change their toon. It may be a short cooling of a couple to several decades, a little ice age of 200 years, or a full blown Ice Age lasting 100 centuries. The later would destroy the USA as we know it and reduce the world's population by half or perhaps much more.

DWornock  posted on  2008-07-04   6:23:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: DWornock (#5)

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The great and powerful Al has spoken!"

If "global cooling" takes hold, I will be repeating the fast-food ad campaign's slogan: "I'm lovin' it."

I'm just afraid another 24 million people will move here and double our population. Texas is already overpopulated.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-07-04   7:48:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Sam Houston (#6)

I'm just afraid another 24 million people will move here and double our population. Texas is already overpopulated.

Hate to be a bearer of bad news; but I am running into a sh*tload of yankees on a daily basis who say that they are "heading south".

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2008-07-04   9:51:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: who knows what evil (#7)

The good news is that a lot of them are "upside down" on their homes and have to stay put.

I'm warning them also. There is really no "welfare" to speak of in Texas. Sure, you can go to the ER for treatment. But that's about it.

The last time this happened in the early 1980s, we had a joke comparing Yankees to hemorrhoids. They come down and won't go back up.

By the mid-80s, Texas' energy-based economy had collapsed and the rest of the country was on the way up. So that's another reason to stay put. Our Texas economy is like Texas weather--if you don't like it, just wait a day or two. It'll change. The economy will fall apart again here, within a few years. And then the Yankees will be stuck here in an alien culture where no one does things "the way we did things back home."

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-07-04   12:21:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Original_Intent (#0)

A new paper published by the Astronomical Society of Australia is warning of upcoming global cooling due to lessened solar activity.

This is typical alarmist bullshit written by those who should know better, and more than likely do.

There have been articles floating around recently with dire predictions on "global cooling" since there are few sunspots occuring right now. Any scientist who can honestly refer to him or herself as such should know that we are currently in the minimum swing of the new solar cycle, where activity is about to pick up in a month or so.

Here's a graph of solar activity dating back to the year 2000. The graph starts at the peak of the former solar cycle and goes up to the year 2016, which is towards the end of the current cycle which began in January of this year. The current cycle is not expected to peak until 2012, and is thought to more than likely be a VERY active cycle. We ARE however at the minimum point of activity in the new cycle, where there are still sunspots occuring from the prior cycle. A new cycle is determined by the appearance of sunspots of the opposite polarity from that of the former cycle. The first sunspot of the new cycle, cycle 24, appeared on January 4th of this year.

There are two expected activity curves in red, one being the minimum activity, the other the maximum.

Here's a couple of graphs showing solar activity back to 1760. As you can see, there is nothing unique or unusual with our current point in the solar cycle.

One has to wonder why scientists who should know better are publishing such utter crapola.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   14:57:21 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: farmfriend, christine, Ferret Mike, angle, Chicken Little, All (#9)

(((( ping to post 9 ))))


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   14:59:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Original_Intent (#3) (Edited)

However, the Global Warming scare has been so thoroughly sold that there will still be people who insist we are experiencing Global Warming with an overall decline in Global temperatures.

Those same people understand very little about how the greenhouse gas CO2 actually warms the Earth. It does it in two narrow bands, one of which is insignificant because very little IR radiation form Earth is radiated in that band, the other one is already mostly covered by water vapor now. Water vapor is the number one greenhouse gas by far on Earth. If runaway greenhouse gasses were possible on Earth then it would have already occurred by now. The Earth does not have a relatively static atmosphere like Venus has, its constant winds at the jet stream level ensure that most heat from Earth leaves through convection. The Global warming scam never was about concern for the Earth and its people, but rather a way to control people and reduce population.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   15:09:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: who knows what evil (#7)

Hate to be a bearer of bad news; but I am running into a sh*tload of yankees on a daily basis who say that they are "heading south".

Retire in Florida?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   15:16:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Original_Intent (#1) (Edited)

Did you notice the graph on the source page of your article, and the caption below it? It states "A 2005 prediction of solar activity. The sunspot number should now stand close to 100, instead it is zero."

It is obvious that whoever wrote that is hoping that his readers all just swallow whatever is handed them as gospel. Solar cycle 23 did NOT end in 2004 and solar activity did NOT drop to its minimum in 2006, it occured THIS year instead.

The last cycle, cycle 23, lasted several years longer than shown in this graph. The authors should have known that.

Again, here's an actual graph showing actual solar activity up to the end of May 2008.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:18:38 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: RickyJ (#11)

Those same people understand very little about how the greenhouse gas CO2 actually warms the Earth.

And people like you are among those that falsely report solar activity and lie about what is really happening, for whatever agenda you serve.

Some people, when presented with actual facts, modify their postition and understand that they may have been led to believe something contrary to what is true. You are not one of those people, in fact you'll simply post your own opinion as if it were scientific fact, with nothing but hot air to back up your arguments.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:28:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: All (#11)

... Record cold high temperature in Springfield Illinois on July 3...


The high temperature in Springfield yesterday was only 69 degrees. This is the coldest high temperature on record for July 3. The old record of 70 degrees was set in 1892.

The normal high temperature for the date is 86 degrees.


69 for a high in July despite all that extra CO2 in the atmosphere? Could the global warming scientists be wrong? I think so.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   15:29:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: FormerLurker, RickyJ, who knows what evil, Sam Houston, DWornock (#13)

The situation with sunspots from July 2007 to June 2008.

The cycle 23 that began already in 1996 still reigns superior. There was no cycle 24 spots in June.

From cycle 24 there are three tiny signatures: one in January (1 day), one in April (2 days) and one in May (2 days).

In 2008 there has been 16 groups from cycle 23 lasting together 91 days, and 3 groups from cycle 24 lasting together 5 days.

From July 2007 to December 2007
month
year
spotless days
days with below 10 Wolfs (1 sunspot group)
days with below 20 Wolfs (most probable 2 groups)
days between 20-30 Wolfs (3-4 groups)
07 2007 08 10 09 04
08 2007 08 22 01
09 2007 22 07 01
10 2007 28 02 01
11 2007 24 04 02
12 2007 12 05 05 08

-------------------------------------------------------------------

January 2008
spotless days 20
one spot group from cycle 23 (southern hemisphere) on 11 days
one spot group from cycle 24 (northern hemisphere) on 1 day (4.1.)
4.1. there were two spot groups at the same time, one from cycle 23
and one from cycle 24
Sunspot number 3.4 (3.1 from cycle 23 0.3 from cycle 24)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

February 2008
spotless days 21
one spot group from cycle 23 (southern hemisphere) on 8 days
none spots from cycle 24
Sunspot number 2.1 (all from cycle 23)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

March 2008 (some ending in April)
spotless days 16
one sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 2 days (5.-6.3.) max size 30 per mil
one sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 1 day (10.3.) max size 90 pm
one sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 3 days (15.-17.3.) max size 20 pm
a triplet (3 at the same time 25.3.-31.3.):
first sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 12 days (23.3.-31.3.)
second sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 13 days (24.3.-2.4.)
third sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 13 days (25.3.-3.4.)
max size together 520 pm (26.3.), above 100 from 24.3.-2.4.
none spots from cycle 24
Sunspot number 9.3 (all from cycle 23)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

April 2008
spotless days 20
remnants from sp-gr from cycle 23 1.4.-3.4. (see March)
one sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 2 days (19.-20.4.) max size 20 pm
one sp-gr from cycle 23 (NH) on 3 days (22.-24.4.) max size 40 pm
one sp-gr from cycle 24 (NH) on 2 days (14.-15.4.) max size 10 pm
this is number 2 cycle 24 spot 102 days after the first in January
Sunspot number 2.9 (2.45 from cycle 23 and 0.45 from cycle 24)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

May 2008
spotless days 23
three simultaneous sp-groups from cycle 23 (SH) on 1 day (16.5) ms 45
two sim. sp-groups from cycle 23 (SH) on 4 days (17.5.-20.5.) ms 80
one sp-gr from cycle 23 (SH) on 1 day (26.5.) ms 10
one sp-gr from cycle 24 (SH!) on 2 days (4.-5.5.) ms 20
sunspot number 2.9 (2.5 from cycle 23 and 0.4 from cycle 24)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

June 2008
spotless days 19
one sunspot group from cycle 23 (SH) on 4 days (10.-13.5.) msize 40
one sunspot group from cycle 23 (SH) on 7 days (16.-22.5.) msize 20
no sunpot groups from cycle 24
sunspot number 3.1

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The 12-monthly best fit gives around the year 1797. The Dalton minimum reigned 1798-1823. It's anybody's guess what happens next. At least the Earth is already cooling.
Sunspot number from Jan to June = 3, 2, 9, 3, 3, 3 = 23.7 = 22.55(from 23) + 1.15(from 24).
Spotless days Jan to June = 20, 21, 16, 20, 23, 19 = 65%.
Can Sun continue this way for long? Yes, it can. The lack of cycle 24 spots, the almost ghost-like 23-spot in 16.-22.6. really had only one spot, and at the same time radio flux of 10.7 cm was amazing 65. What is lacking? Wholly spotless months. Whatever perspective one has, my educated guess is that either July or August will be wholly spotless. Almost all solar parameters are so low, that at least it would not be surprising.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   15:31:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: FormerLurker (#14)

with nothing but hot air to back up your arguments.

If you can refute what I am posting then do so.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   15:31:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#16)

Sorry didn't get you included in the above post.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   15:31:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Original_Intent, farmfriend, christine, Ferret Mike, angle, Chicken Little (#0)

Since then, activity has remained far below average, with it now being over two months since a single sunspot has appeared on the surface of the sun.

The above quote from the article is an absolute lie. Below is the number of sunspots per day up through the end of June 2008. Apparently the author doesn't count very well, or doesn't know where to look up sunspot data.

Note: The values at the bottom row of the table below indicate the average number of sunspots per day for that month. One person here had to tried to say those were the actual number of sunspots for the month, where it is quite obvious that is not the case.

From ftp://ftp.ngd c.noaa.gov/STP/SOLAR_DATA/SUNSPOT_NUMBERS/2008

                          DAILY SUNSPOT NUMBERS 2008
===============================================================================
 Jan   Feb   Mar   Apr   May   Jun   Jul   Aug   Sep   Oct   Nov   Dec   Yr Day
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   7    11     0    16     0     0                                      2008 01
   7     9     0     9     0     0                                      2008 02
   7     9     7     9     0     0                                      2008 03
  12     8     0     7     7     0                                      2008 04
  10     0     0     0     8     9                                      2008 05
  11     0     8     0     0     0                                      2008 06
  11     0     0     0     0     0                                      2008 07
   9     0     0     0     0     0                                      2008 08
   0     0     0     0     0     0                                      2008 09
   8     0     9     0     0     9                                      2008 10
   8     0     0     0     0     8                                      2008 11
   0     0     0     0     0     0                                      2008 12
   0     0     0     7     8     8                                      2008 13
   0     0     0     7     0     0                                      2008 14
   0     0     7     0     9     7                                      2008 15
   0     0     7     0    14     7                                      2008 16
   0     0     7     0    12     7                                      2008 17
   0     0     0     0    15     8                                      2008 18
   0     0     0     8    11     7                                      2008 19
   0     0     0     0     7     8                                      2008 20
   0     0     0     0     0     8                                      2008 21
   0     0     0     8     0     8                                      2008 22
   0     0     0     8     0     0                                      2008 23
   0     0    19     7     0     0                                      2008 24
   0     8    32     0     0     0                                      2008 25
   0     8    36     0     0     0                                      2008 26
   0     8    35     0     0     0                                      2008 27
   0     0    34     0     0     0                                      2008 28
   0     0    30     0     0     0                                      2008 29
   8          31     0     0     0                                      2008 30
   8          25           0                                            2008 31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   3.4   2.1   9.3   2.9   2.9   3.1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Values are preliminary after Dec 07.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: farmfriend (#16) (Edited)

You're quite good at posting meaningless gobblygook in an attempt to confuse the subject. There have been MANY more than just one sunspot this year, unlike what you were trying to say on another thread.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:38:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: RickyJ (#11)

If runaway greenhouse gasses were possible on Earth then it would have already occurred by now.

Really? That's not what physicists and various researchers who study the Earth's climate have to say on the subject. What evidence can you provide, that you, RickyJ, an anonymous poster on an Internet forum, are correct and they are wrong?

The Earth does not have a relatively static atmosphere like Venus has, its constant winds at the jet stream level ensure that most heat from Earth leaves through convection.

How do YOU know what the Venusian atmosphere was like prior to its oceans evaporating, or how it was millions of years ago? Are you a planetary scientist who has studied the data, or are you just giving us your uneducated opinion?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:44:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: FormerLurker (#21)

How do YOU know what the Venusian atmosphere was like prior to its oceans evaporating

How do YOU know it ever had oceans?

Are you just giving us your uneducated opinion, or are you just parroting the global warming scientists who are funded by the government and the elite?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   15:51:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: FormerLurker (#21)

Really? That's not what physicists and various researchers who study the Earth's climate have to say on the subject.

Actually that is exactly what the MAJORITY of them have to say about it.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   15:53:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: RickyJ (#15)

The high temperature in Springfield yesterday was only 69 degrees. This is the coldest high temperature on record for July 3. The old record of 70 degrees was set in 1892.

ANY legitimate scientist will agree that short term weather patterns do NOT reflect long term global trends. Then again you probably already knew that, right?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:56:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: RickyJ (#23)

Actually that is exactly what the MAJORITY of them have to say about it.

Prove it.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:57:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: RickyJ (#22)

How do YOU know it ever had oceans?

That is what planetary scientists have been able to determine. Funny how you agree with those calling themselves scientists when it suits your agenda, but claim they don't know what they're talking about when the data disagrees with your position.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:58:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: RickyJ (#22)

are you just parroting the global warming scientists who are funded by the government and the elite?

It is YOU who parrots what Exxon scientists funded by the elite have to say.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   15:59:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: FormerLurker (#26)

That is what planetary scientists have been able to determine.

Wrong! That's the opinion of some of them. They have not determined it ever had oceans.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   16:07:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: FormerLurker (#25)

http://www.petitionproject.org/index.html

31,072 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,021 with PhDs

How many SCIENTISTS are on the government elite global warming scam side? Hint: Al Gore doesn't count.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   16:21:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: RickyJ (#28)

Wrong! That's the opinion of some of them. They have not determined it ever had oceans.

No, YOU are wrong. It is the most widely accepted theory. We of course can not know for SURE what was there millions of years ago, we have to rely on geological features and other data to determine how the planet may have been back then.

Early Venus Had Oceans, May Have Been Habitable

Did Venus's ancient oceans incubate life?

How Venus Lost Its Oceans

Venus


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   16:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: FormerLurker (#30) (Edited)

No, YOU are wrong.

No you are wrong. I am threw with this nonsense from you. Learn what the word determined means and then get back to me.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   16:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: RickyJ (#29)

http://www.petitionproject.org/index.html

31,072 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,021 with PhDs

Well it's certainly a large list, but since there isn't any contact info for any of the individuals listed, for all I know they either made up the names or ran a webcrawler that found anyone with the Phd next to their name and inserted it into their list.

I'll see if I can actually verify if any of those people did in fact sign the list.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   16:28:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: RickyJ, Former Lurker (#22)

are you just parroting the global warming scientists who are funded by the government and the elite?

All the false fear, BS re global warming is being propagated by and for Pols and one-worlders.

It's manna from state sponsored leeches for them.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-07-04   16:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: RickyJ (#31)

I am threw with this nonsense from you. Learn what the word determined means and then get back to me.

Learn how to spell the word THROUGH and look up what it means prior to using it in a sentence. You might not look like such an ignorant ass next time.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   16:29:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: iconoclast (#33)

All the false fear, BS re global warming is being propagated by and for Pols and one-worlders.

It's manna from state sponsored leeches for them.

The oil companies are siding with the ANTI global warming people. What's that tell you?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   16:30:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: iconoclast (#33)

Do you or do you not agree that the article posted here is a pile of dog dung, and that it lies about the current solar activity in order to make people think we are in danger of experiencing global cooling?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   16:32:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: RickyJ (#29)

31,072 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,021 with PhDs

Yeah, they've got the petition in one pocket and a submission for a gubmint grant in the other.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-07-04   16:32:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: iconoclast (#37)

Yeah, they've got the petition in one pocket and a submission for a gubmint grant in the other.

I think I'll have to agree with you on that...

Those who have signed such a petition are dismissing global warming out of hand, and I can't see how a neutral scientist can do that in regards to the subject, when those with the resources and backgrounds to study such things have said the opposite.

If anything, a neutral person would advise caution on the matter, even if they may not totally agree on the chance that we are in danger of major climate changes if the current trend is not stopped.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   16:37:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: FormerLurker (#36)

dung?

Maybe, but, then again, maybe these Australians are the embodiment of that guy Diogenes was lookin' for.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-07-04   16:40:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: FormerLurker (#38)

I think I'll have to agree with you on that...

Sorry, but we don't agree .... I thought the petition in question was the one from the other team side of the issue.

I bad.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-07-04   16:48:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: FormerLurker (#38) (Edited)

when those with the resources and backgrounds to study such things have said the opposite.

The resources? Yeah, those government checks! LOL! CO2 caused Global warming on Earth is not SCIENCE you nut, it is total BS.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   16:50:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: iconoclast, RickyJ (#37)


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:00:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: (#42)


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: christine (#0)

I must have missed a tag in post 42. Tried to fix it in post 43 but it didn't work.

Can you please delete 42 and 43, I'll repost it after I fix the HTML.

Thanks.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:04:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: FormerLurker (#44)

done

christine  posted on  2008-07-04   17:13:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: christine (#45)

Thanks.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:15:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: iconoclast, RickyJ (#37) (Edited)

It appears that the author of the petition simply made up the listed names on his "petition" in many cases.

700 Club anchor touted global warming skeptics' petition reportedly signed by non-scientists, fictitious characters


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:17:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: RickyJ, iconoclast, All (#41)

The resources? Yeah, those government checks!

Speaking of governement checks, did you know that Frederick Seitz, the author of the petition you tried to pass off as legitimate, used to be a paid consultant for RJ Reynolds, and that he is known to be friends with those who side with the oil companies as well?

From Frederick Seitz

 
Classification: Tobacco Science Advisor

Frederick Seitz
"Not Sufficiently Rational"

Frederick Seitz and the Tobacco Industry

Seitz is the former principal scientific advisor to the RJ Reynolds medical research program.

A May, 2006 Vanity Fair article by Mark Hertsgaard outlines the central role Seitz in a $45 million "medical research" program in the 1970's and 80' for tobacco-giant RJ Reynolds:

'They didn't want us looking at the health effects of cigarette smoking,' says Seitz, who is now 94— but it nevertheless served the tobacco industry's purposes. Throughout those years, the industry frequently ran ads in newspapers and magazines citing its multi-million-dollar research program as proof of its commitment to science—and arguing that the evidence on the health effects of smoking was mixed."

Last year, DeSmogBlog uncovered a 1989 internal memo from tobacco company Philip Morris explaining that Seitz "is quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice."

To quote: "I spoke with Bill Hobbs [RJ Reynolds] about arranging an appointment for you with Dr. Fred Seitz, former head of Rockerfeller University and the principal scientific advisor to the RJ Reynolds medical research program. Bill told me that Dr. Seitz is quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice."

Seitz and Global Warming

Seitz is listed as the Chair of an organization called the Science and Environment Policy Project (SEPP) . The founder of SEPP is Fred Singer, a very well-known climate change denier. Singer is also well-known for his willingness to take money from the oil industry.

Seitz and the Oregon Petition

In 1998, an initiative called the "Oregon Petition" was organized by Fred Seitz and another individual named Art Robinson.

The Oregon Petition has been used by climate change deniers as proof that there is no scientific consensus, however they fail to note the controversy surrounding the petition itself. In April 1998, Robinson’s Oregon Institute, along with the Exxon- backed George C. Marshall Institute, co-published the infamous “Oregon Petition” claiming to have collected 17,000 signatories to a document arguing against the realities of global warming.

The petition and the documents included were all made to look like official papers from the prestigious National Academy of Science. They weren’t, and this attempt to mislead has been well- documented.

Along with the petition there was a cover letter from Seitz. Also attached to the petition was an apparent “research paper” titled: Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide. The paper was made to mimic what a research paper would look like in the National Academy’s prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy journal. The authors of the paper were Robinson, Sallie Baliunas, Willie Soon (both oil-backed scientists) and Robinson’s son Zachary.

The petition was so misleading that the National Academy issued a news release stating that:

"The petition project was a deliberate attempt to mislead scientists and to rally them in an attempt to undermine support for the Kyoto Protocol. The petition was not based on a review of the science of global climate change, nor were its signers experts in the field of climate science."

 


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:27:24 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: RickyJ (#41)

Looks like you're a pro at posting false info there bud. I wonder why you would do that here on the 4um?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:29:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: FormerLurker (#26)

Another major theory that contradicts the Venus had oceans theory is held by some planetary scientists.

Water in the Universe


The second major model is referred to as the "steady-state model." According to this theory, the ratio results from a balance between sources of water and fractionation losses, with the total abundance of water remaining constant over time. This theory basically states that Venus' total amount of water has remained constant through the ages and the source of the D/H ratio is terrestrial-like (likely volcanic).

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   17:33:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: FormerLurker (#20)

There have been MANY more than just one sunspot this year, unlike what you were trying to say on another thread.

I said no such thing.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   17:41:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: RickyJ (#50)

Nice try pal, but you apparently overlooked the MAJORITY of what your link refered to...

From your link;

Measurements made by the Pioneer Venus Orbiter during the latter stages of its fourteen-year exploration of Venus (which ended in late 1992) suggest that the planet very well could have been relatively wet in the distant past. This spacecraft found that the ratio of deuterium (hydrogen with an added neutron) to plain hydrogen is some 150 times greater than on Earth. This excess is likely due to the escape of the lighter isotope (plain hydrogen) over the ages. If this is the case, then Venus may have had 150 times as much water as it does today.

Current models assume that Venus initially had an Earth-like deuterium to hydrogen ratio (D/H) which has risen due to atmospheric evolution. With the results of these D/H tests in hand, two predominant theories exist as to the reasoning for this alarming ratio. The first is the "primordial-ocean model", which interprets the high D/H ratio as the result of the fractionation loss from a large initial ocean-like body of water. This theory argues that Venus once had reservoirs of water (or even oceans), but lost it as the water vapor in its upper atmosphere was broken into its components, and the lighter hydrogen escaped into the solar system. Supporters of this model believe that Venus started off wet because it could not avoid receiving some of the same volatile-rich material that formed on Earth (because of its similar size and proximity). The abundance of deuterium in comparison with hydrogen represents the notion of this theory's followers that the water's ordinary hydrogen escaped, while the much heavier form of hydrogen (deuterium) stayed behind because of its weight. Supporters of this theory are enthusiastic about the possibility that Venus once had large quantities of water.

The second major model is referred to as the "steady-state model." According to this theory, the ratio results from a balance between sources of water and fractionation losses, with the total abundance of water remaining constant over time. This theory basically states that Venus' total amount of water has remained constant through the ages and the source of the D/H ratio is terrestrial-like (likely volcanic).

If Venus did in fact have oceans at some point in time, then the implications of this could be remarkable. Although these oceans would have likely existed at near boiling temperatures for much of the time, the possibility still exists that life could have arisen in these bodies of water.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:41:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: FormerLurker (#47)

You can believe the government Jew sponsored lies about CO2 causing global warming on Earth if you want to, but you can't do so based on science.

You have demonstrated that you are a irrational nut, devoid of even simple logic and common sense.

If runaway greenhouse gasses were possible one Earth then it would have already occurred. Only a moron can't see that.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-04   17:42:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: FormerLurker (#35)

The oil companies are siding with the ANTI global warming people. What's that tell you?

About the same thing that James Hansen's lifetime career as a gubmint bureaucrat tells me.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-07-04   17:43:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: farmfriend (#51)

I said no such thing.

You implied it by posting material that simply confused the subject when I attempted to show that there were a good number of sunspots thus far this year, and you kept hopping on the fact that there had only been one in January for this solar cycle, where it must have taken about a hundred posts for you to concede that there were MANY more than that one from the PREVIOUS solar cycle, which were STILL occuring.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:44:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: iconoclast (#54)

About the same thing that James Hansen's lifetime career as a gubmint bureaucrat tells me.

Do you also disbelieve the EPA scientists that were trying to warn the public about the dangers of water fluoridation, or the FDA scientists that determined that Aspartame is toxic and unfit for human consumption?

Would you rather believe a petition that has been shown to be fraudulent?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:46:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: RickyJ (#53)

You can believe the government Jew sponsored lies about CO2

There you go again blaming the Jews for everything that's wrong with society.

I bet you listen to Hagee and drool like a retard when you watch him on your television, don't you...

You obviously swallow the shit that's been proven to be fraudulent, such as that "petition" you linked to earlier.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:48:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: FormerLurker (#55)

You implied it

No I didn't. There was only one in Jan for cycle 24 and you have a weird way of twisting what happened. I never conceded anything. The posts are there for anyone to verify what was said and done. Now if you are done with your personal attacks, I'll be moving on.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   17:48:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: farmfriend (#58)

The posts are there for anyone to verify what was said and done. Now if you are done with your personal attacks, I'll be moving on.

"A" for effort. And you work cheap! ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-04   17:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: farmfriend (#58)

Oh boo hoo, I stated a fact you didn't like and now you're going to cry. Nice act, farmgirl...

As far as what you DID concede to, you DID admit that there were more than just one damn sunspot in January, as you CAN NOT DENY the number listed by NOAA.

Yes, you DID state that it was a cycle 24 sunspot, but did not admit that cycle 23 sunspots were STILL occuring for quite some time. IN fact, you tried to say the monthly averages were the actual total number of sunspots for that month at one point.

And yes, ANYONE can go back to that thread and see exactly what was said.

Keep it up, and I'll link and post your very words from that thread. I DO have better things to do with my 4th of July, but I will get around to it if I need to.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-04   17:53:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: FormerLurker, Rotara (#60)

I DO have better things to do with my 4th of July,

I spent my morning walking a parade route passing out JBS literature on the NAU.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   18:02:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: FormerLurker (#20)

You're quite good at posting meaningless gobblygook in an attempt to confuse the subject.

There's another one as well.

angle  posted on  2008-07-04   19:07:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: farmfriend (#61)

I spent my morning walking a parade route passing out JBS literature on the NAU

You're a damn fine woman! ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-04   19:09:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: FormerLurker (#47)

700 Club experts? I think I'll go with science and common sense.

angle  posted on  2008-07-04   19:11:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: RickyJ (#53)

Only a moron can't see that.

Your debating technique needs work.

angle  posted on  2008-07-04   19:13:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Rotara (#63)

You're a damn fine woman! ;-)

Thank you my dear.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-04   19:27:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: farmfriend (#16)

From cycle 24 there are three tiny signatures: one in January (1 day), one in April (2 days) and one in May (2 days).

And it is questionable whether spots like these would have even been detectable in the past.

She's got stars in her eyes & knots on her knees now
Her crazy grass shift really sways in the breeze now

Tauzero  posted on  2008-07-05   0:57:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Original_Intent (#0)

with it now being over two months since a single sunspot has appeared on the surface of the sun.

Not true.. but...

She's got stars in her eyes & knots on her knees now
Her crazy grass shift really sways in the breeze now

Tauzero  posted on  2008-07-05   1:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: FormerLurker (#20)

There have been MANY more than just one sunspot this year

How many?

She's got stars in her eyes & knots on her knees now
Her crazy grass shift really sways in the breeze now

Tauzero  posted on  2008-07-05   1:04:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: angle (#65) (Edited)

Your debating technique needs work.

I suppose you can't see that then.

According to the global warming "scientists" runaway greenhouse gasses are suppose to occur when the Earth gets warmer. Their argument goes something like this. The Earth gets warmer thus more water vapor is released into the atmosphere which then causes the Earth to get still warmer which then causes yet more water vapor to be released and the Earth gets even warmer. If runaway greenhouse gasses were possible then we would have already fried by now. You can see that right? You do also understand that the Earth loses the majority of its heat through convection, right? Comparing Venus to Earth and saying, becasue we think this happened on Venus it could happen on Earth, is not good science since Venus has very little winds compared to Earth. Not good science at all.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-05   1:17:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Tauzero (#69) (Edited)

With sunspots I think it matters a lot more just how big they are and how long they last than how many there were for any month or year.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-05   1:41:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Tauzero (#67)

And it is questionable whether spots like these would have even been detectable in the past.

They more than likely weren't detectable in the 1800s.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-05   1:43:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Original_Intent (#0)

July in Ohio...and today the high temp was a sweltering 70 degrees. Just one degree shy of the all time recorded low temp record for this day. Fuck you, Al Gore, and all the "global warming" I had to shovel out of my driveway during this past winter.

"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5

orangedog  posted on  2008-07-05   1:51:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Tauzero (#67)

And it is questionable whether spots like these would have even been detectable in the past.

This is true. SOHO make detection much easier.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-05   3:35:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: orangedog (#73)

July in Ohio...and today the high temp was a sweltering 70 degrees.

Yep, my AC's off and my doors and windows are open.

With Bush in the White House and Gore leading the crusade du jour, clearly the alarming message is the disappearance of commonsense in America, not the disappearance of Polar Bears.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-07-05   8:39:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Tauzero (#69)

How many?

Do you see the table in post 20?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-05   16:13:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: orangedog (#73)

July in Ohio...and today the high temp was a sweltering 70 degrees. Just one degree shy of the all time recorded low temp record for this day. Fuck you, Al Gore, and all the "global warming" I had to shovel out of my driveway during this past winter.

One year of cooler temperatures in one part of the world does not make for a long term global trend.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-05   16:14:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: RickyJ (#72)

They more than likely weren't detectable in the 1800s.

Obviously you don't read too well, or even understand what the following graphs mean.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-05   16:17:44 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: RickyJ (#71)

With sunspots I think it matters a lot more just how big they are and how long they last than how many there were for any month or year.

Uh huh, you're a real solar expert now, right? Too bad you don't know the first thing about what you're talking about.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-05   16:17:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Original_Intent, *Agriculture-Environment* (#1)

Globally, the Earth is a bit warmer than last month with the anomalies for June 2008: Global -0.317 C, NH +0.004 C, and SH -0.232 C. 2007 figures were 0.203 C, 0.375 C and 0.03 C repectively. The CO2 concentration [Mauna Loa] has gone down from 388.49 ppmv in May 2008 to 388.0 ppmv in June 2008. Comapared with June 2007 [385.98 ppmv] the CO2 concentration has risen to 388.0 ppmv, an increase of 2 ppmv over the year.

It was expected in certain circles that CO2 totals would start to drop as cooling set in.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-07-05   22:56:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: FormerLurker (#79)

Uh huh, you're a real solar expert now, right?

Yes, much more than a irrational person like you.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-05   23:17:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: FormerLurker (#78)

Obviously you are a moron, I was talking about better detection of sun spots now vs. then, DUH!

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-05   23:28:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: RickyJ (#81)

Yes, much more than a irrational person like you.

Right. I'm irrational because I post facts and valid information, whereas you post discredited bullshit such as a fraudulent petition that has been shown to contain people that don't exist.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-05   23:43:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: RickyJ (#82)

Obviously you are a moron, I was talking about better detection of sun spots now vs. then, DUH!

They apparently were able to count them pretty well all the way back to the year 1760. If the methodology would have affected the actual numbers, then the numbers should have skyrocketed when SOHO began observing the Sun.

As you can see from the graphs, that did not happen.

Of course, any sort of logical reasoning is beyond your understanding, so I don't expect you to "get it".


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-07-05   23:46:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Sam Houston (#6)

Whatever will be will be. As of now man cannot control the weather.

DWornock  posted on  2008-07-06   4:18:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: FormerLurker (#84)

Hey, are you going to the Revolution March Saturday?

Or are you too scared you will pollute the atmosphere by going?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-07-09   2:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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