4um: Virginia Court Is Pressed To Take Action In SSN Case

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Title: Virginia Court Is Pressed To Take Action In SSN Case
Source: American Christian Liberty Society News
URL Source: http://www.christianliberty.org/art/update-7-11-2008
Published: Jul 13, 2008
Author: H. Lance Freeman
Post Date: 2008-07-13 13:28:54 by David Alan Carmichael
Keywords: None
Views: 174
Comments: 15

After the Governor and Trans-portation Secretary of Virginia took a posture of deliberate indifference to a religious accommodation request, they find themselves now subject to a law suit against them in their private capacities.
David Alan Carmichael has been trying to get a religious accommo-dation to the Virginia’s requirement to adhere a SSN as an element of his identity in order to apply for a driver’s license. After the Virginia General Assembly enacted a ‘Religious freedom preserved’ statute, much like the Federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, David renewed his request for religious accommodation directly to Governor Tim Kaine. In his request, David cited a provision of the Virginia Constitution that indicates the ‘buck stops’ at the Governor when a government practice appears to violate the Constitution. The only action taken by Governor Kaine was to pass the ‘buck’ to Transportation Secretary Pierce Homer. Pierce Homer then completely evaded any reference to the freedom of religion provisions in the Virginia Constitution and statutes, even though they were squarely put to him by Carmichael. The request was sent again to the Governor. Carmichael’s correspondence was ignored.
A suit was filed by David in the Richmond City Circuit Court on April 28, 2008. In his suit, David claimed that other people are granted driver’s licenses without having to identify themselves with a SSN for reasons other than religion. In his recent motion for injunction, David listed several Federal cases involving religious objections to the uni-versal use of the SSN a personal identifier. Each of the cases that David cited went in favor of the religious objector on the basis of the standard recently enacted by the Virginia General Assembly, Va. Code §57-2.02. Leahy v. District of Columbia, is a driver’s license case parallel to Carmichael’s.
The Government lawyers appear to be digging in their heels against David’s request for accommodation of religion. They’ve responded to his suit in boilerplate fashion, making a motion for dismissal rather than answering the Complaint. David has a difficult road ahead. No doubt, it is a road that needs to be paved. Access the case documents at http://www.christianliberty.org/carmichael_dmv
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#1. To: David Alan Carmichael (#0) (Edited)
The Government lawyers appear to be digging in their heels against David’s request for accommodation of religion. They’ve responded to his suit in boilerplate fashion, making a motion for dismissal rather than answering the Complaint. David has a difficult road ahead. No doubt, it is a road that needs to be paved.

Good luck David. The plantation owners aren't likely to release one of their slaves as long as they have his consent to slavery which is demonstrated by usage of an SSN, transacting business with commercial paper/securities/FRNs, voter registration wherein one SWEARS to be a U.S. citizen (against scriptural admonitions), and operates regularly in commerce, or accepts government benefits.
I understand the dilemma and the magnitude of the battle. I wish you the very best and admire your efforts.
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.
De La Boétie
noone222 posted on 2008-07-13 14:26:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: noone222 (#1)
The plantation owners aren't likely to release one of their slaves as long as they have his consent to slavery which is demonstrated by usage of an SSN, transacting business with commercial paper/securities/FRNs, voter registration wherein one SWEARS to be a U.S. citizen (against scriptural admonitions), and operates regularly in commerce, or accepts government benefits

Some would say that obtaining a driver's license is a government benefit. Automobile use regulation is certainly an earthly government function. I have been using automobiles since 2002 lack of license notwithstanding. However, I might be in disagreement with you about whether regulating the use of an automobile is legitimate. I do not consider trying to obtain a driver's license a sin. The Lord did not tell me to forsake earthly government regulations. He told me to forsake the number. Forsaking the number may cause me to be ineligible to comply with certain regulations. If that is the case, then let the regulations fall by the way.

David Alan Carmichael posted on 2008-07-13 15:32:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: David Alan Carmichael (#0)
David listed several Federal cases involving religious objections to the uni-versal use of the SSN a personal identifier. Each of the cases that David cited went in favor of the religious objector on the basis of the standard recently enacted by the Virginia General Assembly,

you would think that precedent has been set, wouldn't you? but with your case, as is becoming more and more commonplace anymore, it's not about the law. it's random hit or miss and dependent upon the whims of individual judges.
thanks for the update, David.

christine posted on 2008-07-13 16:51:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: David Alan Carmichael (#0)
Good luck with it, David.

Lod posted on 2008-07-13 17:09:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: christine (#3)
thanks for the update

Just get ready for the next post Christine. It is about the case in Texas. The lawyer is awesome. She is going at it like David did against Goliath.

David Alan Carmichael posted on 2008-07-13 17:43:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: lodwick (#4)
So far, the Court has not responded to any of my submissions. The latest one was a motion for injunction. It is worth reading. The first four pages are pretty reduntant but the substance of the motion is really good. www.christianliberty.org/...com-injunction- motion.doc

David Alan Carmichael posted on 2008-07-13 17:47:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: David Alan Carmichael (#6)
Please keep us posted.
Can you motion for a summary judgment due to lack of response?
Again, best of luck with it.

Lod posted on 2008-07-13 18:36:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: David Alan Carmichael (#2)
I do not consider trying to obtain a driver's license a sin.

I'd agree with you if the SSN wasn't required. The mere fact that they do require it shows pefectly that the STATE VENUE is not Constitutional but Commercial and FEDERAL. The trouble with most (Christian) people in dealing with the SSN is that they want the alleged benefits or potential benefits. Relying upon the SS System shows where their faith truly lies. Everything about the U.S. Inc. system flies in the face of God's immutable laws. [This is where modern Christians claim Christ did away with all of that nonsense]. I don't care to have that argument.
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.
De La Boétie
noone222 posted on 2008-07-14 20:14:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: noone222 (#8) (Edited)
The trouble with most (Christian) people in dealing with the SSN is that they want the alleged benefits or potential benefits.

You mean like driving to work in the morning without having a Sheriff deputy drag your ass out of the car and down to lockup every week for driving without a license?
Yeah, that's a pretty good benefit. Or be a plumber, or an electrician, septic service company, real estate agent, homebuilder, barber, restaurant owner, in some states a bartender, farmer who uses certain herbicides, etcetera, etcetera which all require a license or a permit that you need to give a SSN to obtain.
It ain't worth being broke and not being able to send your kids to college over not having a SSN.
That's where all these "patriots" who preach not having one are. They live out in nowhere and eek out a living or if they live in a small town they spend half their life in jail and a courtroom making ostentatious arguments to judges who could give a shit less, but often cut them a break for their eccentricity.
You can see it in any rural county Michigan courthouse just about once a week.

SmokinOPs posted on 2008-07-14 20:40:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: SmokinOPs (#9)

That's where all these "patriots" who preach not having one are. They live out in nowhere and eek out a living or if they live in a small town they spend half their life in jail and a courtroom making ostentatious arguments to judges who could give a shit less, but often cut them a break for their eccentricity.

nothing new under the sun.......
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt posted on 2008-07-15 13:01:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#10)
Symbolism on $1
The Great Seal

"....Looking just above the eagles [ATKHWDI Note: Ezekiel 17:7-10] head you will see 13 pentagrams within a cloud. The pentagrams are arranged in the shape of a hexagram - or greater Seal of Solomon. [ATKHWDI Note: a.k.a. "Star of David"] The hexagram is a powerful tool used by pagans and sorcerers to invoke Satan. It is also the sign of Anti Christ with 6 points, 6 angles and 6 planes ( 666). ) The 5 pointed pentagrams multiplied by the 13 stars equals 65, the same cabalistic number as mentioned above. This makes one wonder with whom or what, we are to dwell in unity!....."
http://www.gemworld.com/us-symbol-1dol.html

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt posted on 2008-07-15 13:51:23 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: SmokinOPs (#9)
That's where all these "patriots" who preach not having one are. They live out in nowhere and eek out a living or if they live in a small town they spend half their life in jail and a courtroom making ostentatious arguments to judges who could give a shit less, but often cut them a break for their eccentricity.

I live in a small town, (12-13 years) drink beer with the county prosecutor, wave to the county judge and JP judge daily from my car that I drive without a license, (and they all know it) and have no problems at all with the local police or even STATE Police.
Some people are persuaded that monetary benefits alone are sufficient advantages to remain bound to the system, I don't. Here again, every individual is responsible to judge their own actions, however part of the equation necessary to properly address the issue of considering ones self a "patriot" also begs the question relative to financing the weapons/police/military that are being used to destroy freedom. To consider ones self a patriot and donate to the destruction of your neighbors is hypocrisy. It's that simple.
Sometimes it's the presentation of ones position that determines the attitude of the entire conversation relative to legal issues. Most "patriots" approach the "authorities" as if they are bad people when they are just ignorant in most cases. Nothing can be gained by condoning criminality on the part of our public servants.
In my own case I think I have been able to persuade the locals that I am a good guy, not interested in threatening them, but very interested in having them recognize the violative nature of the federal intervention into local government.
We have a good Sheriff here. He refuses federal funds, believes in the 2nd Amendment and he and I are also on a first name friendly basis. We exchange e- mails occasionally and he was recently named Sheriff of the Year by his peers.
I know that everyone can't depart the system for one reason or another. Especially those with medical conditions within their family that would jeopardize the life of a family member without access to governmental assistance. This condition is usually the creation of fascism to install control over those unfortunate enough to have medical problems by making health so expensive that ONLY GOVERNMENT CAN PAY FOR IT.
But, many that don't extract themselves from this fraudulent system of self imposed and self financed incarceration are just pussies, users of other people or too addicted to the illusion of benefits provided by the system. These people shouldn't call themselves patriots, they're Torries. Worse than this is the fact that some day the real sacrifices will be required and these weaklings will be of little use since they couldn't even resist tyranny at its least onerous moment.
Frankly, I can't be responsible for what others do or don't do to further the cause of freedom. I'm only responsible for my actions. No man can make me do anything that violates my conscious, especially in a system that claims to be "free". Each individual has to do what their own situation and conscious requires of them. I haven't been able to see the benefit of financially supporting a system determined to destroy me AND MY COUNTRY.
I can say this much, there are other people on this forum that know me personally, know my situation and live in my neighborhood. They have witnessed my experience here for the past 12-13 years and know that what I'm saying is true. I won't expose them but if they wish to comment I won't mind.
I have had moments of confrontation with the authorities, but with the help of God and a prudent approach to resolving the problematic issues things have worked out very well. I try to be a good neighbor and so do they.
To be quite honest I feel like I have accomplished asylum here, and I think God did it as repayment to me for my FAITH and desire to do the Creator's Will. It didn't hurt to learn enough law to defend myself so as to make it extremely difficult to get a conviction without expending more effort than the reward warrants. [The learning of legal processes is also a sacrifice and a head ache that each person has to evaluate the cost vs. benefit.]
I think what I'm trying to say is that I have always extended the hand of friendship while at the same time making it clear that if I am forced to confrontation I'm willing and capable. Many of the people associated with the system KNOW SOMETHING IS RADICALLY WRONG but just don't know exactly what to do about it. [Living in a small town is more conducive to a rational approach to justice. Big cities and crowded courts leave little time for conversation].
There is a cost, no doubt about it. There is also a reward. Each person will ultimately do the requisite soul searching to determine who they truly are and act accordingly. Freedom/liberty cannot live in tyranny only slavery, slaves and treasonous slave masters willing to sell out their brethern. Freedom ain't free brother, and each of us must make our own determination as to its value. It's obvious to me that most people won't recognize the value of freedom until they've lost it.
That ain't me !
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.
De La Boétie
noone222 posted on 2008-07-17 5:42:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: noone222 (#8)
I'd agree with you if the SSN wasn't required. The mere fact that they do require it shows pefectly that the STATE VENUE is not Constitutional but Commercial and FEDERAL. The trouble with most (Christian) people in dealing with the SSN is that they want the alleged benefits or potential benefits. Relying upon the SS System shows where their faith truly lies.

I have done a thorough study of the driver's permit/license requirement. It is not tied to a SS benefit. It is however one of the mechanisms that is being used by the beast to taunt people into embracing the SS# as the number of the beast.

David Alan Carmichael posted on 2008-07-24 10:04:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: SmokinOPs (#9)
Yeah, that's a pretty good benefit. Or be a plumber, or an electrician, septic service company, real estate agent, homebuilder, barber, restaurant owner, in some states a bartender, farmer who uses certain herbicides, etcetera, etcetera which all require a license or a permit that you need to give a SSN to obtain.
It ain't worth being broke and not being able to send your kids to college over not having a SSN

It is section 666 of the U.S. Health & Human Services Code that is driving the requirements that you describe.
Regarding "It ain't worth being broke, etc..." Revelation 12:11 "And the overcame..." There is victory available. "... by the blood of the Lamb" There is power in the blood. "... by the word of their testimony..." That very well may be in the courts (See David Alan Carmichael v. United States, 298 F.3d 1367; 66 Fed. Cl. 115) "And that they love not their lives even unto death." The 'even unto death' includes the many inconveniences that you described. If you read Revelation Chapter 21 verse 8, it lists "cowards" as the first on the list of those who have their part in the lake which burns with fire. "Without faith, it is impossible to please Him. For he who comes to God must believe that He is and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." It is fear that has caused the both great and small to embrace the SSN as an element of their identity contrary to God's prohibition. You may not be as impoverished 'physically' as I and my family are. However, there are riches that you may be excluding from yourself.

David Alan Carmichael posted on 2008-07-24 10:12:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: noone222 (#12)
I have had moments of confrontation with the authorities, but with the help of God and a prudent approach to resolving the problematic issues things have worked out very well. I try to be a good neighbor and so do they.

Very good!!! I agree.
A state trooper pulled me over when I was using a borrowed car that happened to not have up-to-date registration. I have no driver's license though I am trying to get one. I told the trooper my story. He sent me on my way without citing me for driving without a license.
The Lord's grace in sufficient in time of trouble. Love God, and love even your state trooper as yourself. In this, all the laws are fulfilled.

David Alan Carmichael posted on 2008-07-24 10:18:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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