Title: Obama, One Worlder Nutcase Source:
breitbart URL Source:http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=138183 Published:Jul 24, 2008 Author:Obama (or his idiot speechwriters) Post Date:2008-07-24 20:30:29 by James Deffenbach Keywords:None Views:1333 Comments:120
Talking to a crowd in Germany, he said: "Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen -- a proud citizen of the United States, and a fellow citizen of the world."
Cynico: Re religion, never argue or discuss such with anyone.
buckeye: I know you're right, but this is one of the top three issues of our time. Americans have to recognize that America is their promised land, not somewhere else. It was promised to them by their forefathers and the men and women who founded this country. I think God would want them to appreciate that worldly gift above most others.
Bravo, well said. You're on a roll today, buck. You nicely separated the wheat from the chafe and clarified the real issues at hand as opposed to the superficial ones.
You can find scrapper2 defending American Jews on this site if you look. It may be that your views differ on how to best not be a Nazi.
I've read PLENTY from both of you and when it comes to Israel/Jews/Hebrews you two go WAY past the point of America first.
You two have deep issues with God that you project in peculiar ways.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I think in the meantime - as the story goes - we're supposed to live our mortal lives as best we can and when we die we leave our mortal shells behind on earth and our souls join the Heavenly Father and His Son and the Holy Ghost in Heaven.
But you and Rotara are free to just hang around here waiting for Him to come back - yep, that sounds like a sound plan. Just keep watching what happens with Israel in all the ME conflicts it causes, and eventually there should be a signal when His flight is earth bound.
I think in the meantime - as the story goes - we're supposed to live our mortal lives as best we can and when we die we leave our mortal shells behind on earth and our souls join the Heavenly Father and His Son and the Holy Ghost in Heaven.
But you and Rotara are free to just hang around here waiting for Him to come back - yep, that sounds like a sound plan. Just keep watching what happens with Israel in all the ME conflicts it causes, and eventually there should be a signal when His flight is earth bound.
Tell Hitler hello when you see him.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I use credible sources to support my criticisms of Israel...
Aside from the rapture nonsense, here's how it works: Zionism and Manifest Destiny are ideologically linked, and this makes it difficult for Christians who believe in Manifest Destiny not to accept Israel's claims to Palestine. It's a form of cognitive dissonance.
There's an easy way out of this dilemma. The liberal, self-hating approach is to reject both. Unfortunately, there is the other, more troublesome route of attaching a Christian identity to the American people. This is problematic, as well, because it welds race and religion where they do not belong. On the other hand, we can simply accept that America is a wonderful place, it was founded by freedom-loving people, and it was given to us by immigration or birth, and that makes it "ours."
Freedom unites very well. Ron Paul lectured the evangelicals, whose coreligionists had barred him from the Values Voter Debate, at the Revolution March saying "keep your religion to yourself." Indeed. I think he might have also been directing his vitriol at some of the Moral Majority types who were there, as well.
#88. To: Rotara, buckeye, christine, Original_Intent, rowdee, Jethro Tull, mirage, Rupert_Pupkin, wudidiz, All (#84)
a. I've read PLENTY from both of you and when it comes to Israel/Jews/Hebrews you two go WAY past the point of America first.
b. You two have deep issues with God that you project in peculiar ways.
a. Oh really quoting from Professors Mearsheimer and Walt and posting news articles from Israeli newspaper and linking to criticisms made by Jewish journalists is going way past America First. Riggggght. No what pisses you off, Rotara, is that by supporting our criticisms of Israel by presenting credible links and connecting the dots on how IsraelFirsters put America Last, that's what is real annoying to you. Because you would much prefer to lull everyone to sleep with your cryptic comments about "The Globalists" and "The New World Order". You don't want to read or have anyone else read precise articulate well supported arguments about what it is that poses the greatest threat to our fair nation today. You don't want the secret out about wasted US blood and treasure - who this is being done for.
b. Really? And why are you qualified to make this judgment? You are pathetic, Rotara. You are a stereotypical Christian Zionist, AmericaLaster. You still do not have a clue that Israelis despise you and your ilk, but you'd happily send other people's kids, even your own kids, to fight and die for Israel in useless foreign wars. You are pathetic AND selfish - because in your mind, ME wars and conflagration brings Him closer to you, right?
When one has no defense for one's unsupportable position, there's always ye old Hitler anti-semite card. It always magically appears thusly from the Speech Fascist Usual Suspects as well as from their despised Christonutter groupies.
And you are THE WORST NAZI on this site and among the worst I've ever encountered anywhere.
You are simply a disgusting individual, in spite of all the other things you DO get right.
Well, thank you for the compliment, Rotara.
Coming from the likes of a smug dissembling christonutter shape shifting IsraelFirster Fascist like yourself, I see I'm hitting the mark, even going past the mark, in connecting the dots of our disastrous foreign policy for America Lovers at 4um and lurkers everywhere.
Your words are inspiring. I will work harder to reveal truth. I will research deeper. I will look at more sources, international news sources perhaps. Yes, maybe I will even learn Hebrew so I can translate blogs from "abroad". You are such a motivator, Rotara. Again, thank you.
What Rotara represents is indeed well-meaning. These are good people whose net effect on our foreign policy has been negative — not because they meant harm, but because their focus was divided between their own country's future and another people's fate. America's people need this kind of selfless care and devotion now, before it's too late.
America is no longer able to be the savior of the entire world, and history is showing us that we never should have believed that we could be in the first place.
You can find scrapper2 defending American Jews on this site if you look. It may be that your views differ on how to best not be a Nazi.
Thank you, buckeye, for pointing this out. I have said several times that for example Philip Weiss is one of my intellectual heroes, that he is a very courageous man for speaking truths about Israel and about some of the AmericaLasters in his religious group. My criticisms are always about Israel the nation, when its actions earn criticism and about IsraelFirsters who dissemble and put America last. IsraelFirsters are Jewish and gentile alike. I do not single out IsraelFirster Jews for criticism. I have never ever made a broad brush stroke criticism of Jews in general or American Jews in particular because of their faith. I am always very careful and focused in pin-pointing my criticism and the criticism always relates to politics.
Are there ANY other America first believers on this site but me?
You know there are.
bump
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
At least. In my dealings, almost all are followers of Yeshua now.
They peg the percentage much higher, and they should know.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
scrapper: If we mess with the Pakis, they'll drag us into an increasingly dragged out conflict there.
iconoclast: We can't be dragged anywhere, dummkopf.
Hello, does Korean War or Vietnam War ring any bells, einstein?
Pakistan's pro-America attitude in government officials is not necessarily shared by the general Paki public or by the intel/military officers. If we start meddling in Pakistan, our pro-American sock puppets in office there will be put between a rock and a hard spot. Do you want a civil war or a military coup to occur in Pakistan because we start making the politicians look weak to the Paki rabbling crowds, while we're "huntin'" for the mythical OBL? And if Pakistan falls into turmoil, then what? We wash our hands and walk away and look for OBL somewhere else? Give me a break. Unless we change our foreign policy in the ME, there'll be OBL's growing everywhere. And Obama has ZERO interest in changing our foreign policy in the ME. Why do you think Bibi likes Obama? Sheesh. Catch a clue.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Welcome to the United Nations! And it don't get any better either! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I know that is good advice--at least the part about not arguing about religion is. Discuss is a different thing. I can discuss it but I never argue about religion.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton
Rotara insulted scrapper2 and buckeye and scrapper2 unleashed one mean can of whoop-ass.
Am I close?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
Rotara insulted scrapper2 and buckeye and scrapper2 unleashed one mean can of whoop-ass.
Am I close?
Not really at all, no. I don't apologize for being a Bible believing Christian that puts America first and am not ashamed for not wanting any sovereign nation destroyed and all it's people dispersed or destroyed.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
"Religious warfare" was not the issue at all. Rotara and I are both Christians. He's of the Protestant right wing variety and I'm a Catholic.
The issue is about Rotara conflating his love of Israel and his love of End Times dogma with what he falsely thinks is the definition of an America Firster. Go figure.
And because I have linked IsraelFirsters - both Jewish Zios and Christozios like himself - to the greatest threat America faces today, Rotara had a hissy fit. He thinks criticizing Israel - the nation - or criticizing IsraelFirsters who use American blood and treasure for Israel's benefit are Nazis, Hitlerites.
In Rotara's eyes unless you are an Israel lover, you hate America.
It was all about foreign policy and identifying :the enemy" - religious discussion was when Cynicom side-tracked the matter at hand.
Not really at all, no. I don't apologize for being a Bible believing Christian that puts America first and am not ashamed for not wanting any sovereign nation destroyed and all it's people dispersed or destroyed.
What a sanctimonious misguided little prick you are.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
Catholics are quite an interesting sort. Unfortunately, most of them don't know their own religion well enough to be able to deal with it.
Time and time again I've had to explain what "ex cathedra" means and that just because the Pope issues an opinion, it doesn't mean everyone has to jump.
It gets even more fun with Protestants, most of whom don't even know why they are what they are. What precisely are they protesting again? Do they even know where they got their religion from?
But, Catholics will do one thing very well. Criticize everyone equally. Might be because a lot of them are "traditional" Irish Catholics who see their priests but five times in their existence. Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage, Last Rites, and Funeral.
Well, make that four.
"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!
I'm not advocating that our nation defy the Constitution for Israel or anyone else.
However, it appears that most here on Freedom4um that have issues attacking and destroying sovereign nations don't give Israel the same turn.
Why is that do you suppose? Hmmm.
One could say they hardly blame Israelis/Hebrews/Jews for saying "never again" as this ugly anti-Christ spirit gains more strength. Yet again.
Ah, the history of those chosen to bring down the 10 Commandments!
You have gone and got lost in the tall grass again. Ugly anti-Christ, bringing down the 10 Commandments, never again but genociding Palestinians is okay, and then there's the crescendo barn burning non-sequiter statement:
"it appears that most here on Freedom4um that have issues attacking and destroying sovereign nations don't give Israel the same turn."
It's deep, man, it's all very deep. Gack.
Regarding not violating the constitution - hello, ever heard about separation of state and religion? Why are we supporting a theocractic thug-state that is genociding Palestinian Muslims - true semites, fyi, not Ashkanazi converts - so a racially "pure" Jewish state can expand over the Palis backs? Think about it. And that example is just for constitutional violation starters.
But, Catholics will do one thing very well. Criticize everyone equally.
Hey we're equal opportunity critics.
But once again, Rotara and I had our differences primarily about US foreign policy, not religion. Religion was a side issue because his End Times dogma - it's not even proper religion - puhlease- anyways his dogma and Israelilove was tied up with foreign policy, not mine. I keep my religion where it should be - in my heart.
I keep my religion where it should be - in my heart.
That is precisely where it belongs as, at its heart, it is a personal rather than a group activity.
As for America First - this is how it should be.
The problem with a lot of the 60s children and their offspring is that none of them understand where their priorities should be. They trample the flag not understanding what it stands for. The flag stands for the ideals of America and the Constitution, not the current fool inhabiting the White House.
If only more people took the time to understand the idea of America and the Constitution, there would be a lot fewer twinks on the streets to deal with.
"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!
#117. To: iconoclast, James Deffenach, Rotara, buckeye, christine, Original_Intent, rowdee (#116)
Rotara: Are there ANY other America first believers on this site but me?
James Deffenbach: You know there are.
iconoclast: BTW, don't leave me out of that category.
James and iconoclast, did you actually read and understand what Rotara's unique definition of "America first" involves before you signed up with the plan?
I'm just curious, that's all.
Anyone can call label himself any thing, but the self-described label is meaningless unless you have a frame of reference.
I would wager that everyone who posts on this site - a political discussion forum - loves America. Absolutely. Why else would posters display such passion and invest so much time and energy to discuss how different political events here and abroad affect our nation? We all love America, even when we criticize our government.
But to describe oneself as America First - I use upper case for First unlike Rotara who uses lower case for first - it really means that one puts America FIRST, that there is no other nation on this planet that can share your loyalty or patriotism. America First means undivided and single nation-love.
I am an America Firster. I have zero split national loyalty or patriotism. America comes First. Thusly, I would never ever - no never - advocate American blood and treasure being used for the defense and security for any other nation but America.
But for Rotara, it would appear that his love, loyalty, patriotism for America is divided with his affection for a foreign nation, that nation being, Israel.
Rotara seems to believe that America is inextricably tied to Israel at the hip through Biblical prophecy or at least Rotara's reading of the Bible. Rotara conflates literal Biblical scripture reading of a mythical Israel with what America's foreign policy should be - putting America's and only America's interests first. In Rotara's view America and Israel are not separate nation-states. Rotara sees America as sharing a destiny with Israel. I do not share that view. That shared Biblical destiny view of Rotara's is antithical to what I feel defines being an America Firster. And keep in mind that even when it is not in America's best interests, Rotara believes that we cannot cut our foreign entanglements with Israel. Rotara has intimated that even if Israel's interests are not shared by America, even if Israel's needs are detrimental/at odds with America's needs, he sees the 2 nations as inextricably united come hell or high water.
So James and iconoclast, now that you know the context, the frame of reference of Rotara's unique definition of America first, do you still count yourselves as sharing and supporting Rotara's definition, wherein your loyalties are divided between 2 nations, not just associated with America; that you two like Rotara call yourselves America first believers, the spelling of first being a weak and wobbly lower case "first"?
#118. To: scrapper2, James Deffenach, Rotara (#117)
James and iconoclast, did you actually read and understand what Rotara's unique definition of "America first" involves before you signed up with the plan?
I don't give a damn what HIS definition is.
My frame of reference is as a lifetime populist, (Bob Taft) paleo-conservative.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
My frame of reference is as a lifetime populist, (Bob Taft) paleo-conservative.
So out of the blue with no frame of reference you announced on a thread that you were America first. Nice.
Now you say you are a paleo-conservative.
Okeedokee...I guess people can describe themselves with whatever labels they want. But in your case if you want to be honestly viewed as a paleo-con, one sticky-icky political position you need to lose is being pro-universal health care, for example, because paleo-cons believe in limited government intrusions in people's lives and small government bureaucracies and socialized medicine is the opposite. So call yourself whatever, I don't care.
And moving on to other political article discussions today...