Same thing happens with someone's passport from the WTC attacks. Odd, yes. But neither situation proves that the people on flight 93 were on the ground when CeeCee made her call.
I don't know. That's the point. We have to know things before we start suggesting the kinds of conclusions inferred here, namely that CeeCee was on the ground when her husband (allegedly) says he was told over the phone that she was in the air. We really don't have all the facts before us in this matter.
Knowing things and wondering about them are very different matters. When people start drawing massive conclusions with a scant amount of information, that's dangerous.
What's the point of leading people to believe that the plane was on the ground when the calls were supposedly made? Hysteria. Is hysteria a useful sentiment at a time like this?
The Marriott Rewards card and the ID endures the crash, but the substantial landing gear does not.
Where's her purse? Her ID and "pocket litter" would be inside a wallet inside a purse. Women don't just carry their license in their back pocket, after all.
9:27 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 93 Passenger Tom Burnett Calls Wife Using Cell Phone; Reports that His Plane Has Been Hijacked
Tom Burnett, a passenger on board Flight 93, calls his wife Deena Burnett at their home in San Ramon, California. (Longman 2002, pp. 106-107) She looks at the caller ID and recognizes the number as being that of his cell phone. She asks him if he is OK, and he replies: No, Im not. Im on an airplane thats been hijacked. He says, They just knifed a guy, and adds that this person was a passenger.
According to Deena Burnett, her husband called her on a cell phone at altitude. This was a physical impossibility. It was so significant, the government lied to cover it up. The government claimed Burnett used an Airphone.
Who would you believe? The wife of the man on the plane or the government that has a history of lies concerning events of mass murder like Waco and the OKC bombing?
If she saved the cell phone bill or could get the records, that would indeed be a smoking gun, since the government is on record in the Moussaoui trial claiming the call came from a GTE Airphone.
Quick questions, honway. What was the length of time of her recorded cell phone call to her husband? During that period of time, approximately how many miles would Flight 93 have traveled?
I think the answers to those further backs up your judgment that her use of the cell phone was impossible - in the aircraft anyway.
What was the length of time of her recorded cell phone call to her husband? During that period of time, approximately how many miles would Flight 93 have traveled?
CeeCee's call was 41 seconds.
I will try to find out the speed from the FDR data. My rough estimate is that she traveled about 3.8 miles.
As far as Tom Burnett's calls, according to the government there were three:
Comparing the reported times to the government released FDR data,we have:
9:30 .......28 seconds.......35,000 feet
9:37........62 seconds.......39,000 feet
9:44........54 seconds.......24,000 feet.
I will search for the FDR data concerning the speed, but at 35,000 feet and 39,000 feet, a normal range for ground speed would be in the range of 400 to 480 mph,depending on the winds.
An interesting thing from CeeCee's call is prior to and during the call the aircraft descended from 40,000 feet to 20,000 feet in about 7 minutes,according to the FDR data. That descent rate is more than is normally used. The reason I mention that is there is no way a flight attendant would not recognize the plane was in a descent and to flight attendants, a descent like that would mean they were about to land and the flight was about to be over. She did not mention that in the message and that was very odd,imo.
In case you're wondering why I posted the info on Barbara Olson's supposed phone call, I was implying that her call could ALSO have been made from the ground, as suggested here in regards to the CeeCee Lyles call.
It is VERY interesting, to me at least, that her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, changed his story from her calling on a cell phone to a sky phone and then back to cell phone call, yet the FBI says that there were NO calls at all.
It would mean that either Olson is lying, or the FBI is. Either case PROVES that there is complicity here on the part of the government.
"The real deal is this: the royalty controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You're very welcome my friend, and thank YOU for posting this article.
"The real deal is this: the royalty controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
What is not normal is the landing gear vaporizing.
It's also not normal to find the engines over a mile away. The claim is they bounced! LOL! Also parts of the plane were found over a very large area. That flight was shot down. The "crash scene" more than likely was just a separate explosion which produced a hole in the ground. There was no evidence of any plane there whatsoever. Flight 93 or some plane was shot down, but I doubt the passengers were on board. 9/11 was totally scripted, everything went as planned except for the early leak about WTC7 collapsing.
Around Thanksgiving, Jerry and Beatrice Guadagno of Ewing, N.J., received word that their son Richard's credentials and badge from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been found by the FBI at the crash site.
"It was practically intact," Richard's sister, Lori, said of the credentials, which were returned in their wallet. "It just looked like it wasn't damaged or hadn't gone through much of anything at all, which is so bizarre and ironic.
When she says "there's three guys, they've hijacked the plane" her tone is almost sing-song, not believable at all. She seems to realize this immediately and so the next thing she says is she's "trying to be calm", or maybe it's the next thing on a list she has.
The impression I get is she was not completely prepared to leave the message but wrote a list of things to say, and she had a last minute discussion about the list with other people there before calling, which discussion ended up generating rough notes on the list or mental notes. One of the last-minute changes apparently was to emphasize that she's on the plane (said three times), which comes right after "listen to me carefully". I'm guessing the starting list is just a goodbye-type list with nothing about the plane or any "hijackers".
Anybody familiar with getting a name changed on a driver's license? Do you get a new issue date with a new license or do you keep the original issue date?
6:27 a.m.( pacific time) First cell phone call from Tom to Deena
* Deena: Hello * Tom: Deena * Deena: Tom, are you O.K.? * Tom: No, Im not. Im on an airplane that has been hijacked. * Deena: hijacked? * Tom: Yes, They just knifed a guy. * Deena: A passenger? * Tom: Yes. * Deena: Where are you? Are you in the air? * Tom: Yes, yes, just listen. Our airplane has been hijacked. Its United Flight 93 from Newark to San Francisco. We are in the air. The hijackers have already knifed a guy, one of them has a gun, they are telling us there is a bomb on board, please call the authorities. He hung up.
6:31 Deena calls 911
6:34 The phone rang in on call waiting, Toms second cell phone call.
* Deena: Hello * Tom: Theyre in the cockpit. The guy they knifed is dead. * Deena: Hes dead? * Tom: Yes. I tried to help him, but I couldnt get a pulse. * Deena: Tom, they are hijacking planes all up and down the east coast. They are taking them and hitting designated targets. Theyve already hit both towers of the World Trade Center. * Tom: Theyre talking about crashing this plane. (a pause) Oh my God. Its a suicide mission (he then tells people sitting around him) * Deena: Who are you talking to? * Tom: My seatmate. Do you know which airline is involved? * Deena: No, they dont know if theyre commercial airlines or not. The newsreporters are speculating cargo planes, private planes and commercial. No one knows. * Tom: How many planes are there? * Deena: Theyre not sure, at least three. Maybe more. * Tom: O.K .O.K .Do you know who is involved? * Deena: No. * Tom: Were turning back toward New York. Were going back to the World Trade Center. No, wait, were turning back the other way. Were going south. * Deena: What do you see? * Tom: Just a minute, Im looking. I dont see anything, were over a rural area. Its just fields. Ive gotta go. * He hung up.
6:45 a.m. Third cell phone call from Tom to Deena
* Tom: Deena * Deena: Tom, youre O.K. (I thought at this point he had just survived the Pentagon plane crash). * Tom: No, Im not. * Deena: They just hit the Pentagon. * Tom: (tells people sitting around him They just hit the Pentagon.) * Tom: O.K .O.K. What else can you tell me? * Deena: They think five airplanes have been hijacked. One is still on the ground. They believe all of them are commercial planes. I havent heard them say which airline, but all of them have originated on the east coast. * Tom: Do you know who is involved? * Deena: No * Tom: What is the probability of their having a bomb on board? I dont think they have one. I think theyre just telling us that for crowd control. * Deena: A plane can survive a bomb if its in the right place. * Tom: Did you call the authorities? * Deena: Yes, they didnt know anything about your plane. * Tom: Theyre talking about crashing this plane into the ground. We have to do something. Im putting a plan together. * Deena: Whos helping you? * Tom: Different people. Several people. Theres a group of us. Dont worry. Ill call you back.
6:54 a.m. Fourth cell phone call to Tom to Deena
* Deena: Tom? * Tom: Hi. Anything new? * Deena: No * Tom: Where are the kids? * Deena: Theyre fine. Theyre sitting at the table having breakfast. Theyre asking to talk to you. * Tom: Tell them Ill talk to them later * Deena: I called your parents. They know your plane has been hijacked. * Tom: Oh you shouldnt have worried them. How are they doing? * Deena: Theyre O.K.. Mary and Martha are with them. * Tom: Good. (a long quiet pause) Were waiting until were over a rural area. Were going to take back the airplane. * Deena: No! Sit down, be still, be quiet, and dont draw attention to yourself! (The exact words taught to me by Delta Airlines Flight Attendant Training). * Tom: Deena! If theyre going to crash this plane into the ground, were going to have do something! * Deena: What about the authorities? * Tom: We cant wait for the authorities. I dont know what they could do anyway. * Its up to us. I think we can do it. * Deena: What do you want me to do? * Tom: Pray, Deena, just pray. * Deena: (after a long pause) I love you. * Tom: Dont worry, were going to do something. * He hung up
The only problem with this is you have to wonder why they made a new card up when they could have just used her old one. She would have had it on her I assume.
I have witnessed large aircraft crashes, with fires and explosions. It was common to find all sorts of personal items scattered around, perfectly normal.
And also perfectly normal to find whole (or mostly whole) bodies still strapped into seats, fuselage, tail section, landing gear, etc, lying all over the crash scene.
This one has a "Duplicate" date of 06/25/01 on the right hand side.
My hunch is there is a reasonable explanation for the issue date on the license.
From the State of Florida website:
# Replacement Licenses
* Florida law requires residents, within 10 days of changing their name or address, to obtain a replacement license. The fee is $10. The incorrect license must be surrendered to the Division.
The question is does the replacement license come with a new issue date in Florida? Maybe the duplicate date is used on a replacement license for a name change.
This one has a "Duplicate" date of 06/25/01 on the right hand side.
From the Florida Driver's Handbook
Name Change (US Citizens)
You must bring a court order, marriage certificate or divorce decree to a driver licenses office to prove your name change. Documents must be original or certified copies.
Duplicate License
If your driver license is lost, stolen or destroyed, apply for a duplicate immediately. At your driver license office you will need to:
* Show your identification. * Sign under oath that your license has been lost or stolen. * Pay the duplicate license fee ($10.00). You may also apply for a duplicate license by internet at http://www.gorenew.com.
I believe you just found another smoking gun in the 9/11 case!
I think it's a bit subjective, I can't see anything conclusive in this, but here we are, back to talking about the "hijackers", which I've noted before can be a distraction.
Maybe the most interesting thing to me is he asks his wife twice, one time each in two different calls, "Do you know who is involved?" Strange question. "They" had no accents? "They" never spoke to the passengers? Yet he also said "Theyre talking about crashing this plane into the ground." It suggests "they" had no accents. Why would "they" be goading the passengers into action with talk "about crashing this plane into the ground" anyway, if "they" already claimed "they" had a bomb? Talk about sending mixed messages with opposite effects.
It appears to me if a woman lost her license and wanted a new license with her married name on it, she might receive a duplicate license with the original issue date and the new name.
This has been resolved to my satisfaction. Thanks for the reply.
Who would you believe? The wife of the man on the plane or the government that has a history of lies concerning events of mass murder like Waco and the OKC bombing?
There are an infinite number of possible untruths, and motivations for the untruths, within these official reports. I don't trust the official 9/11 stories, but I'm apt to also distrust people who use hysteria to gain attention, to secure agreement, and to fan fires of discord.
There's a reason for the hysteria, and at its root it is unhelpful.
I remember a huge amount of propaganda being distributed around the Internet that seemed to link the OKC bombings to Iraq, right around the end of the UN sanctions. We still don't know what really happened there, not for sure. But people were persuaded both to support the 'crack down' on militias and the Iraq war, and the escalated 'war on Islamic terrorism' because of it.
Why would "they" be goading the passengers into action with talk "about crashing this plane into the ground" anyway, if "they" already claimed "they" had a bomb? Talk about sending mixed messages with opposite effects.
The Jews don't have to make sense. Nobody in the MSM would dare question them.