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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Petraeus won't join bandwagon for Iraq withdrawal timetable
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/45700.html
Published: Jul 28, 2008
Author: Nancy Youssef
Post Date: 2008-07-28 10:20:14 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 159
Comments: 14

BAGHDAD — The top U.S. military commander in Iraq isn't buying the increasingly popular idea of a publicly stated timetable for American troop withdrawal.

Gen. David Petraeus, the Iraq commander, said in an interview with McClatchy that the situation in Iraq is too volatile to "project out, and to then try to plant a flag on, a particular date."

With violence at its lowest levels of the war, politicians in both the United States and Iraq are getting behind the idea of a departure timetable. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama was first, suggesting he would have combat troops home within 16 months of Inauguration Day. The idea got a big boost during his overseas trip, when Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki indicated support for that general timeline.

During a Friday interview on CNN's "The Situation Room," Republican candidate John McCain, who had opposed setting a timeline, appeared to shift ground. McCain said that 16 months "is a pretty good timetable" but must be based on conditions on the ground.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration has embraced "time horizons" as it negotiates with the Iraqi government a status of forces agreement over the future role of U.S. troops. Petraeus said any timetable must have "a heck of a lot more granularity than the kind of very short-hand statements that have been put out."

"We occasionally have commanders who have so many good weeks, (they think) it's won. We've got this thing. Well we don't. We've had so many good weeks. Right now, for example we've had two-and-a-half months of levels of violence not since March 2004," he said from his office at Camp Victory.

"Well that's encouraging. It's heartening. It's very welcome. But let's keep our powder dry. . . .Let's not let our guard down."

Petraeus is pushing for a more nuanced debate as both U.S. and Iraqi political leaders are in campaign seasons, with many voters in both countries wanting to hear there is an end. Maliki is trying to sway voters in time for this fall's scheduled provincial elections by winning support from his political rival, firebrand cleric Muqtada al Sadr, who has called for a U.S. withdrawal date since 2004.

Throughout his tenure, Petraeus has argued for a drawdown based on conditions, saying that the last of the five surge brigades could leave earlier this month because Iraqi forces are increasingly capable of securing Iraq.

Petraeus said that while both Sunni and Shiite extremists groups are weaker, Iraqi security forces still face threats as the groups try to reconstitute themselves throughout Iraq. And because of that, U.S. and Iraqi forces must not assume that the battle here is won, he said.

Maliki's surprise spring offensive in the southern port city of Basra was a turning point in the security situation. It rid Iraq's second-largest city of militia control and bolstered the confidence of both the Iraqi people and military. But the Iraqi security forces turned to U.S. troops to help them win, leading some to call for a more cautious withdrawal plan.

Petraeus has said he believes there will be a "long-term partnership" in which the U.S. acts primarily in an advisory role to Iraqi forces, but with enough combat power to step in and help if major battles erupt. But he said that that like most things in Iraq, plans could change.

"We know where we are trying to go. We know how we think we need to try to get there with our Iraqi partners and increasingly with them in the lead and shouldering more of the burden as they are," Petraeus said.

"But there are a lot of storm clouds out there, there are lots of these possible lightning bolts. You just don't know what it could be. You try to anticipate them and you try to react very quickly. . . .It's all there, but it's not something you want to lay out publicly."

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#1. To: christine (#0)

This stands in glaring contradiction to those who say "The Surge" has worked. The mastermind of it "betrays" them by saying that it really hasn't yet. Check back in 100 years.

BTW, how do you "win" an "occupation" after already killing more than a million of the nation being occupied. I suppose in ancient Carthaginian terms, it would be when you have killed all 25 to 30 million (perhaps sparing the Kurds, who have always played ball with the occupiers) inhabitants of the "oil province" aka Iraq and then salted all the arable land (which "we" have sorta done anyway with all the depleted uranium everywhere).

I think General Betray Us has another agenda. He can never admit it publicly, but I'm sure he's of the opinion that the 25 or more "enduring bases" are necessary forever in order to "project power" for more imperial games on behalf of Greater Israel. This was always the neocon plan once the exit was made from Saudi Arabia.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-07-28   10:37:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Sam Houston (#1)

ALSO, more praise for Crocker and Petraeus.

On Ambassador Crocker: "A real unsung hero in this whole process. Incredibly savvy, but humble and self effacing."

Petraeus: "an extradinarily capable person." ~Obama

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-07-28   11:57:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Sam Houston (#1)

how do you "win" an "occupation" after already killing more than a million of the nation being occupied.

V. Bugliosi says closer to a 100K dead Iraqis. Where do you get your 1M+ number from?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-28   12:04:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#2)

Petraeus: "an extradinarily capable person." ~Obama

What happened to Gen. Betray-Us? The moveon.commies aren't going to be happy about this! Are they? ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-28   12:07:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Rotara (#3)

I don't feel I have to prove the million-plus Iraqis to you anymore than the Jews have to prove 6 million of their tribe died in the Holocaust.

But here's an estimate as of June 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

It's too bad the people who say "only 100,000" died don't meet with the same sort of scorn and outrage that the AIPACers have for anyone who tries to claim "only" a million Jews, if that, died during the Holocaust.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-07-28   12:37:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Sam Houston (#5)

I don't feel I have to prove the million-plus Iraqis to you anymore than the Jews have to prove 6 million of their tribe died in the Holocaust.

But here's an estimate as of June 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

It's too bad the people who say "only 100,000" died don't meet with the same sort of scorn and outrage that the AIPACers have for anyone who tries to claim "only" a million Jews, if that, died during the Holocaust.

Why so sensitive, Mr. Houston? I was merely wondering why you and VB were so far apart. But of course, you gave a predictable response. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-28   12:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Sam Houston (#5)

I don't feel I have to prove the million-plus Iraqis to you anymore than the Jews have to prove 6 million of their tribe died in the Holocaust.

I have always found it odd that so many Jews died and yet we have untold numbers of survivors.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-07-28   12:58:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Rotara (#6)

I'm not even counting the half a million Iraqi children who were estimated to have died from sanctions during the first half of the 1990s, to which the Jewess Madeleine Albright replied, when queried about their unfortunate fate, "We think the price is worth it."

Then there are the Iraqis killed during Desert Storm and its aftermath.

I think the cumulative number by now is WAY more than a million. But it's "worth it" if you're an Israeli or an honorary one. I think they rate one million Arab human lives as being equivalent to that of one Israeli.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-07-28   13:14:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Sam Houston (#8)

What numbers do you suppose VB is using? How could you two be off by a factor of 10?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-28   13:21:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Rotara (#9) (Edited)

He may be talking about Iraqi combatants only and leaving out civilians. I have no idea. I am very familiar with Bugliosi and, as a former prosecutor, he would want to focus on only what he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-07-28   13:25:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Sam Houston (#10)

He may be talking about Iraqi combatants only and leaving out civilians. I have no idea. I am very familiar with Bugliosi and, as a former prosecutor, he would want to focus on only what he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Odd indeed, outside of 'reasonable doubt'. VB certainly carries significant weight in my household. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-07-28   13:27:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: christine (#0)

As long as politicians and military brass refer to Iraq as a "war" instead of an "occupation," there will be no hope for any honesty or straight talk, never mind a strategic plan for withdrawal.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-07-28   13:40:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Rotara, Sam Houston (#9)

What numbers do you suppose VB is using? How could you two be off by a factor of 10?

VB is taking the safe route on the numbers. He's got more important points to score than quibbling about Iraqi civilian deaths. Besides which VB's speech was geared to Americans and they really are not too concerned about Iraqi deaths. It's the 4000 US soldier death that is a key figure to them.

Rotara - many moon ago we had this same discussion about what was the true figure of Iraqi civilian deaths due to the US invasion of Iraq. A medical team from Johns Hopkins did a representative sampling of deaths in Iraq and the figure they came up with was:

• Estimated 654,965 additional deaths in Iraq between March 2003 and July 2006

• Majority of the additional deaths (91.8 percent) caused by violence

• Males aged 15-44 years accounted for 59 percent of post-invasion violent deaths

• About half of the households surveyed were uncertain who was responsible for the death of a household member

• The proportion of deaths attributed to coalition forces diminished in 2006 to 26 percent. Between March 2003 and July 2006, households attributed 31 percent of deaths to the coalition

• Mortality data from the 2006 study reaffirms 2004 estimates by Hopkins researchers and mirrors upward trends measured by other organizations

• Researchers recommend establishment of an international body to calculate mortality and monitor health of people living in all regions affected by conflict

The mortality survey used well-established and scientifically proven methods for measuring mortality and disease in populations. These same survey methods were used to measure mortality during conflicts in the Congo, Kosovo, Sudan and other regions.

www.jhsph.edu/publichealt...06/burnham_iraq_2006.html

scrapper2  posted on  2008-07-28   14:22:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Sam Houston (#1)

I think General Betray Us has another agenda. He can never admit it publicly, but I'm sure he's of the opinion that the 25 or more "enduring bases" are necessary forever in order to "project power" for more imperial games on behalf of Greater Israel. This was always the neocon plan once the exit was made from Saudi Arabia.

Now, THAT makes sense.

Does he mean to say that the longer America occupies the country the better the people will behave?

No, he can't say that, obviously. So, that leaves something that he didn't say which brings us back to your assertion.

Does every flag officer have secret ambitions of being military governor of some conquered nation and people?

Gee, what if the American people don't want to pay for all that conquerin'?

"But, in the interest of full disclosure it wouldn't surprise me if shape shifting lizards are running things."__HD

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-07-28   14:49:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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