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Title: Ramos and Compean Lose 5th Circuit Court Appeal
Source: JBS
URL Source: http://jbs.org/index.php/jbs-news-f ... -lose-5th-circuit-court-appeal
Published: Jul 31, 2008
Author: Ann Shibler
Post Date: 2008-07-31 23:34:00 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 466
Comments: 48

Ramos and Compean Lose 5th Circuit Court Appeal

Written by Ann Shibler Thursday, 31 July 2008 10:45

In a fresh outrage, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals has rendered a 46-page decision upholding the convictions of Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean.

All convictions were affirmed except those for tampering with official proceedings, which has been remanded for resentencing. In his opinion Judge E. Grady Jolly (a Reagan appointee) wrote: “We leave the major conviction with the major sentence … untouched.” He continued, “The underlying crime of violence with which the defendants were charged is assault within the special territorial jurisdiction of the United States. Once the defendants were charged by the government and convicted by the jury under this statute, the district court had no discretion but to impose at least a ten-year sentence.”

Court observer Edd Hendee’s analysis raises some concerns. Being present at the December 2007 hearing Hendee says this overly late decision — which should have been rendered in 60 days, not eight months — is not compelling and contains “conflicts of common sense and clear intent of the law.”

Hendee recorded these observations back at the December 2007 hearing:

• Judge Jolly openly stated it “does seem the Government over-reacted” in this prosecution"
• All 3 judges aggressively went after the 924C gun charges pointing out that there are no other cases where law enforcement officers were charged with this crime
• Judge Higginbotham asked U.S. attorney if every policeman who was accused of using unreasonable force should face 924 C charges or were they discretionary; Judges strongly disagreed with the application of the 924C charges.
• The judges further raised questions that the witness Davilla was not a low level mule but routinely ran drugs and would have likely carried a weapon in the daily activities of smuggling drugs.
• There was NO indication that the judges considered the U.S. Attorney’s discretion reasonable or that the 924C gun charges were warranted.

Regardless of their sentiments back in 2007, the court has raised a red flag with their opinion, and by not agreeing that the defendants should have been able to introduce evidence of Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila’s second alleged drug-trafficking incident in October 2005 (months after the February 2005 incident.) And regardless of their own 60-day goal for reaching a decision, the black robes’ eight-month hiatus could also be viewed with great suspicion, given that their previous statements are contradicted by their conclusion, that:

For the most part, the trial of this case was about credibility, and although the jury could have gone either way, it chose not to believe the defendants’ version of the crucial events of February 17. The trial of the case was conducted fairly and without reversible error.

Heartbreakingly, Ramos and Compean remain in solitary confinement, their wives and families devastated emotionally and financially.

Unless enough pressure comes to bear on the White House, this stomach-wrenching affair may never be righted. Pardons and commutations are political and not based on merit. So, even with top republicans now demanding a commutation, the White House continues to sidestep the issue. When Sen. John Cornyn approached White House spokeswoman Dana Perino on the subject, she responded: "There is a process in which people in our country can ask a president of the United States for a commutation of their sentence and that process can take place if those individuals want it to."

How likely is a presidential pardon? The answer: not very. While the president found time to pardon his pal, Scooter Libby, and to contemplate pre-emptive pardons for administration officials in the increasingly unlikely event Congress might demand accountability for wrongdoing in the areas of torture and illegal wiretapping, he is unlikely to get around to pardoning officers Ramos and Compean.

Petitions for commutations are submitted to the Justice Department for investigation and review, but the Justice Department is presently two or three years behind in authorizing the first step of investigations. Meanwhile, the most egregious perversion of the American legal system in recent memory remains, a mockery of the idea of justice.

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#1. To: farmfriend (#0)

May Bush, Gonzalez and Sutton sleep well tonight. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   0:01:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: farmfriend (#0)

I can't post what I want to.

I will only say there will be no justice in America until the next revolution is resolved on the freedom fighter's side.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-01   0:07:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Rotara (#1)

May Bush, Gonzalez and Sutton sleep well tonight. ;-)

I doubt they ever sleep well without drugs.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-01   0:08:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: RickyJ, Rotara (#3)

I doubt they ever sleep well without drugs

Well there is that persistant rumor about Bush drinking again. Seems like there was some photo evidence to back it up.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-08-01   0:15:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: RickyJ, farmfriend (#3)

I can't post what I want to.

You can, you'd just move up the inevitable confrontation. The time will come though, and then we will all sign our names to THAT Declaration of Independence. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   0:39:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Rotara (#5)

The time will come though, and then we will all sign our names to THAT Declaration of Independence. ;-)

Wonder how many would sign it today ???

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

De La Boétie

noone222  posted on  2008-08-01   2:07:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: farmfriend (#0)

Glenn Beck has taken up their cases and even went so far as to donate $22,000.00 to the 2 wives towards paying some of their rent for a year. He's gotten really involved in their situation and wants to see Johnny Sutton locked up.

Beck said the deal stinks to high heaven and the corruption reaches the White House.

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

De La Boétie

noone222  posted on  2008-08-01   2:11:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: noone222 (#7)

and the corruption reaches the White House.

I believe that. It would have to.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-08-01   4:04:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: farmfriend (#8)

I am very cautious about Beck, as he is a mainstream pundit. However, at times he seems to "get it" ...

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

De La Boétie

noone222  posted on  2008-08-01   8:41:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: farmfriend (#0)

I understand that the guy who got shot was an illegal but, unless I am mistaken, they guy was also unarmed and was running away from the 2 heroes. Also, there was no way for the 2 heroes to know that the guy running from them was in illegal. What if he was an American?

How comfortable is everyone with the idea of uniformed G-men shooting unarmed civilians in the ass?

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-01   8:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#10)

You just cited the government version. They gave him immunity to lie under oath.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-08-01   11:00:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: farmfriend (#11)

I believe that the guy did get shot in the ass, didn't he. Someone shot him. Is there any doubt as of who did the shooting?

On the 'whom' R&C shot and why... hmmm... is it okay to shoot someone you don't know IN THE BACK (ass) while the guy is unarmed and running away from you, just because you are 'the authorities'? What was the Mex guy going to do while he had his back turned at them and running? Fart in their general direction?

Of course, the 2 are pawns, the products of a police state culture. Remember the guy killed by 'the authorities' as he was running away from them, probably frightened by their sexy black overalls and dark glasses? His guilt was that of being a bit mentally unstable and did not COMPLETELY freeze when 'the authorities' commanded him to do so.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-01   11:10:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#12)

He should have been shot in the head with R&C given an immediately promotion.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-01   11:17:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#10)

Are you johnny sutton's lap bitch?

I would have shot the illegal drug running intruder at the border before he ever got in.

You're supporting Fobama, correct? ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   11:20:41 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#13) (Edited)

A cop supporting the police state... should anyone be surprised?

Now, if you were off your (legal?) meds, you would have noticed the facts:

- 2 armed cops should an unarmed guy in the ass, while the guy was running away from them.
- the cops didn't know if the guy was a Mexican, an American, mentally will or training for the Olympic decathlon, but they shot him anyway.

Hmmm... yeah. They acted professionally, it seems. They deserve a promotion.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-01   11:31:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Rotara (#14)

It seems you are way to moronic to warrant any response.

First you steal Arator's nick, then you spread worthless stupidities for anyone else to see. Your posts are the equivalent of mooning.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-01   11:33:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#16)

It seems you are way to moronic to warrant any response.

You're too smart to be a Fobama supporter, aren't you?

In fact, a cursory search shows that you have kneepads for Fobama.

Why not be a man for once and admit the truth; that you're a Socialist schlock sucker supporting an establishment North American Unioner??

It appears you are the equivalent of a good grunt and flush episode. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   11:41:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Rotara (#17) (Edited)

Hey, peabrain, did you notice what this thread is about? Describe the topic, in your own words.

Obviously, you scream in favor of these 2 cops shooting an unarmed guy in the back, while the guy was running away from them. You seem to believe that it was a swell thing to do, right?

Explain.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-01   11:46:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#15)

A cop supporting the police state... should anyone be surprised?

When Homeland Security immunizes a major drug dealer so that he can testify against the border agents from whom he admittedly fled, the notion that the North American Union and it’s associated flood of narcotics are a a given. By me supporting R&C, I opposes the very police state you say I support. But given your attraction to black political community activists, I'm not surprised by your confusion.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-01   12:37:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Jethro Tull (#19) (Edited)

The immunization happened after the guy was shot. You stated that he should have been shot in the head, BEFORE the gov't immunized him.

I see a lot of problems with your thinking.

One of them is the time sequence of events. The other is your support of cops' 'right' to shoot unarmed people in the back. Then, you seem to say that the cops should be viewed as innocent or heroes for shooting someone in the back BECAUSE the gov't immunized a foreign drug dealer AFTER they shot him. Maybe these people should walk free on this technicality but that does not make them good border agents and certainly does not make them heroes.

Again, keep in mind that they did not know EXACTLY whom they were shooting. It could have been you. How would you feel about this incident if you had to reply to this post while lying on your stomach because some cops shot off your ass?

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-01   12:53:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#20)

Invaders should be shot in the back, head, ears, nose and other assorted body parts. If illegal invaders are to be discouraged, that's the fastest, most cost effective way to protect he nation. Of course this won't happen b/c people are all talk, and in the end they'll turn their back on these men and bow to the govt. in the form of Homeland Security.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-01   13:05:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: noone222 (#6)

The time will come though, and then we will all sign our names to THAT Declaration of Independence. ;-)

Wonder how many would sign it today ???

The 13 Colonies had several among them that were reluctant to sign and fearful of going it alone under the King. New York didn't even vote in the session of Congress in which the Declaration of Independence was passed I don't believe. Of course, I could be completely wrong! ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:21:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Jethro Tull (#21)

You still don't get it. They did not know that the guy was 'invader'. They just shot someone in the back.

And, anyways, you should blame your government for practically inviting these people in and your fellow landscaper for hiring them.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-01   13:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#18)

Hey, peabrain, did you notice what this thread is about? Describe the topic, in your own words.

Yes, Fobamabot, I succinctly stated my thoughts on the subject and content of this article with post #1. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#23)

You still don't get it. They did not know that the guy was 'invader'. They just shot someone in the back

LOL, BULL SHIT!

You don't even know the basic merits of this bogus case!!! Haahahaha!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Arator (#23)

President Bush's refusal to pardon Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean -- and White House spokesman Tony Snow's attitude of indifference regarding same -- is a slap in the face to families of murder victims slain by convicted felons in the country illegally and to our nation's law-enforcement professionals. John and Barbara March, the parents of former Los Angeles Deputy Sheriff David March, know only too well. Their son was murdered five years ago by Armando Garcia, a twice-convicted felon in the country illegally who had been deported to Mexico three previous times. After murdering Deputy March on April 29, 2002, Garcia then eluded law enforcement by slipping back across the border.

John and Barbara have worked tirelessly the past five years with authorities and politicians on both sides of the border to fight for the extradition of Garcia back to Los Angeles. After appearances on countless radio talk shows, thousands of hours of diplomacy and a myriad of behind-the-scenes political wrangling, Garcia was finally extradited to the United States on Jan. 9 of this year.Now John and Barbara March are committed to a new battle. They are dedicated to the release of Border Agents Ramos and Compean, sentenced to 11 and 12 years, respectively, for shooting a drug smuggler in the buttocks while trying to apprehend him after he had crossed the border illegally.

Appearing as a guest on my radio show just days prior to when the agents were required to report to prison, John March had this to say, "Border Patrol Agent Ignacio Ramos called me today to congratulate me on the extradition of Armando Garcia. Here is a man, scheduled to begin serving an 11-year prison term in just three days and he calls 'me' to congratulate 'me' on my family's good news. What does that tell you about the kind of man Ignacio Ramos is? And I also ask you what kind of message does their arrest and prison sentence send to our nations Border Patrol agents? The message it sends is clear: be careful of what you do while in the line of duty. You just might shoot at a convicted drug felon and end up going to prison."

Steve Spernak, the March family spokesman and a former decorated police officer added: "Had Border Agents stopped Armando Garcia and national laws locked him up as a repeat 'crosser' and convicted felon, their son, David, would be alive today. Same for unknown thousands of Americans, who have been murdered by convicted felons in the country illegally. The majority of victims are Mexican American immigrants in the country legally. This sends a chilling message to all Border Patrol agents and should to all Americans as well."

Recent statistics and events in California demonstrate the magnitude of the problem. Over a third of the 172,000 inmates in the California's prison system were captured while in the country illegally. In Los Angeles, 80 percent of the prisoners in L.A. County Jail are gangsters, a third of whom were arrested while in the country illegally. Last week there was a three-county sweep in which 745 illegal criminal aliens were arrested. According to Immigration and Customs Enforcement investigators, 400 were in custody and awaiting release back onto the streets.

California congressman and presidential candidate Duncan Hunter is attempting to take matters into his own hands. Mr. Hunter recently introduced the Congressional Pardon for Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Compean. According to Mr. Hunter's staff, research indicates Congress has never enacted legislation purporting to grant an individual pardon. However, the Supreme Court has not ruled on the constitutional authority of Congress to grant individual pardons. Mr. Hunter's staff is currently in the process of obtaining the text of pertinent House and Senate bills.

The White House stance is not only a slap in the face to families of murder victims and law enforcement. It is a slap in the face to American working-class families of all ethnic backgrounds.

Free Ramos, Compean

You two are a slap in the face to any American worth his or her salt. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:32:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Jethro Tull (#21)

Fobama support means you support Amnesty and the North American Union. Same with mcCain. 'Nuff said. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:35:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#23)

You still don't get it. They did not know that the guy was 'invader'. They just shot someone in the back.

Gee, probable cause works for me; a fleeing Hispanic at the border, refusing numerous orders from a uniformed officer to stop - no doubt yelled out in Spanish. Hey, lets debate the virtue of open borders if you like, but if you want them closed, shooting invaders (he was in fact one) is a foolproof solution.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-01   13:42:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

Hey, lets debate the virtue of open borders if you like,

Fobamabots are no better than Bushbots and in fact could be taking botism to new levels/low. IMO ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:45:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Rotara (#27)

The defenders of rights for invaders grows more comical by the day. The wrong people are in the nation and in this case, the wrong people are in jail. But, as Vast knows, Homeland Security wants it this way so his support will lean toward large central government and fascism.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-01   13:46:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#23)

Sunday, April 6, 2008

Congressmen renew lobbying efforts for Ramos and Compean

Two California congressmen have renewed their efforts to improve conditions for two jailed border patrol agents, urging the Bureau of Prisons to move Ignacio Ramos, 37, and Jose Alonso Compean, 28, to a minimum security facility.

'If agents Ramos and Compean must continue serving their sentences, then they should be moved to a minimum security facility where they will not be threatened and under such restrictive conditions,' stated Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.).

Compean receiving a 12-year sentence and Ramos an 11-year sentence after they were convicted of assault, obstruction of justice and civil rights violations against a drug dealer who was retreating across the border.

'After 14 months of enduring the harsh conditions of solitary confinement, Director Lappin should do the right thing and exercise his authority to move the agents into more humane conditions,' stated Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.).'They are effectively serving a double sentence for an unjust conviction that may very well be overturned.'

Because of security threats from Hispanic inmates imprisoned with them, Compean and Ramos were segregated from the general prison population and must remain in their cells for 23 hours a day. They are not afforded basic privileges other prisoners enjoy, such as telephone use, daily showers and television access.

The congressmen noted that Harley Lappin, Bureau of Prisons director for the federal government, has visited the Phoenix facility currently housing the two agents. 'I have asked Director Lappin to review the status of agent Ramos and consider his transfer,' Hunter said. 'He assured me that he would personally meet with agent Ramos and review his situation, as well as the events that led to his incarceration.‘

Monday, December 3, 2007

Judge - prosecutors may have overreacted in Ramos, Compean case

After a hearing in New Orleans, an appeals court judge says federal prosecutors may have overreacted in their case against former border agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. The two men are serving lengthy prison sentences for shooting a fleeing drug suspect.

Judge E. Grady Jolly is one of three judges in the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals hearing the appeals. He questioned whether the two agents would have been charged if they had reported the shooting. "For some reason, this one got out of hand, it seems to me," Jolly said of the agents' prosecution. He said it seems "that the government overreacted" in the prosecution that led to a 12-year prison term for Compean and an 11-year term for Ramos.

The agents' attorneys are asking the 5th Circuit to throw out their convictions. A federal jury in El Paso convicted the Border Patrol agents of assault, obstruction of justice and civil rights violations in the wounding of Osvaldo Aldrete Davila near El Paso in 2005. Aldrete survived the shooting, but was arrested in November after an October indictment on various drug charges.

There's no indication when the judges will rule in the appeals. Compean attorney Bob Baskett says he's encouraged by Jolly's comments, but Ramos attorney David Botsford says he's not reading anything into the remarks.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:47:57 ET  (3 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Jethro Tull (#30)

The defenders of rights for invaders grows more comical by the day. The wrong people are in the nation and in this case, the wrong people are in jail. But, as Vast knows, Homeland Security wants it this way so his support will lean toward large central government and fascism.

Even more comical would be to discover that these Open Border NAU Fobamabots in fact pretended to support Ron Paul! ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: All (#32)

May Bush, Gonzalez, Fobama, mcCain and Sutton sleep well tonight. ;-)

updated

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   13:51:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Jethro Tull, christine, a vast rightwing conspirator, Rotara (#28)

Gee, probable cause works for me; a fleeing Hispanic at the border, refusing numerous orders from a uniformed officer to stop - no doubt yelled out in Spanish. Hey, lets debate the virtue of open borders if you like, but if you want them closed, shooting invaders (he was in fact one) is a foolproof solution.

If the shooting of a fleeing and unarmed subject is out of policy then it wasn't justified. That would explain why the agents picked up the brass and failed to file the report.

They knew they were wrong. In fact we all know that border agents don't shoot anyone fleeing back across the border, with exceptions for violent felons who shot or otherwise harmed one of the agents for instance.

And when the agents' own people turned on them and prosecuted why should Americans give them the benefit of any doubt? If a cop or govt agent decides that the evidence in his favor isn't weighty enough he can forget to file the report. But, if caught then Americans should rally to their defense? Who does that benefit but psycho, trigger happy cops?

Should NYPD have backed the cop who sodomized the man with a toilet plunger? Or, at some point do they say, "He's no damn good and he's a liability to others!"? When your own people turn on you then you're no damn good. (except Serpico of course)

Marijuana is America's number one cash crop, and no one should be shot for smuggling Mexican swag into the country. After all, those who payoff get clean away with it.

Perhaps this guy tried to slip a load in without paying the Border Patrol Tax on it and, you're arguing for a couple of dirty agents on the take who do indeed belong in prison. If that was the case you wouldn't know it. Would you?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-08-01   14:07:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: HOUNDDAWG (#34) (Edited)

Ramos and Compean testified that Davila turned and pointed what looked like a gun to them. Forensics confirms Ramos and Compean’s testimony. It is ONLY the word of Davila, the drug smuggler, that the government relies on to conclude he, Davila, did not have a gun.

From White Trash Smiley Sutton and carried by aztlan.net (figures);

There was no credible evidence that the agents were in a life-threatening situation or that Aldrete, the Mexican alien, had a weapon that would justify the use of deadly force. In fact, Border Patrol Agent Juarez, who was at the scene, testified at trial that he did not draw his pistol because he did not believe there was a threat. He also testified that Aldrete did not have a weapon and was almost to Mexico when Agent Compean began firing at him.

In America, law enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime and prosecutors cannot look the other way.

From World Net Daily:

Three Border Patrol agents, who were given immunity to testify against fellow agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean in the Feb. 17, 2005, shooting of a drug-smuggling suspect as he fled across the U.S.-Mexico border, are no longer with the agency because they changed their accounts of the incident several times.

Removal documents for the proposed firing of agents David Jaquez and Arturo Vasquez were issued on Jan. 29, the Ontario Inland Valley Daily Bulletin reported. A third agent, Oscar Juarez, reportedly resigned from the agency last month shortly before he was to be fired.

And that’s just one of many indiscrepencies in this case.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-01   14:10:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#10)

How comfortable is everyone with the idea of uniformed G-men shooting unarmed civilians in the ass?

As I said before, you are buying into the government account of what happened? It amazes me that on this forum of all places where people routinely promote and believe the government lied about 9/11 then turn around and buy into the government line on everything else. Sigh.

http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/2006/12/ramos-compean-affair- what- really.html

Kanof alleged that the smuggler was an innocent person who was shot by the agents as he ran away from them, fearing the agents were trying to beat him up.

The details. With Ramos and Compean in hot pursuit of this drug smuggler, Davila was forced to ditch his van loaded with 743 lbs of marijuana. In attempting to escape, Davila assaulted and cut BP agent Jose Alonso Compean and left him on the ground bleeding. While Compean was chasing Davila on foot, Ramos had been trying to outflank Davila to cut off his escape into Mexico.

Hearing gun shots and calls for help from his fellow agent, Ramos raced to the scene and found Compean on the ground bleeding. He saw Davila racing towards the Rio Grande, about to cross into Mexico and escape.

Agent Ramos began to chase after the smuggler who had just assaulted his fellow officer. Then the smuggler turned and pointed something at Ramos that he believed was a gun. The time was approximately 1:15pm. It was broad daylight. Ramos, fearing for his life and believing that Davila had already been shooting at his fellow officer, took a single shot at the smuggler. At this time, nobody knew that the smuggler had been wounded.

The smuggler turned back towards the border and kept running. He disappeared into the tall, thick brush along the river. Later, Davila was spotted running across the dry river bed and jumping into a waiting vehicle with two other suspects. This was witnessed by four Border Patrol agents, documenting that Davila was not some “innocent” illegal alien, but a bona fide drug smuggling operation. The three smugglers took off and the agents walked back to the abandoned van where they discovered the 743 pounds of marijuana.

BP supervisor, Jonathan Richards, who had arrived on the scene, was very angry that the smuggler had gotten away. Richards ordered everyone to report to the station. He also told them to load the 743 lbs of marijuana onto their vehicles and take it to the station.

Richards never went across the canal to investigate the assault or to check on agent Compean. Ramos and another agent, named Yrigoyen later testified they told Richards that Compean had been assaulted. At the station, another agent, Mendez, stated that Compean had cuts on his face and hand. He said this in the presence of Supervisor Richards. This is significant because Richards denied having any knowledge of Compean’s injuries.

The BP supervisor lied on the witness stand, testifying that no one told him Compean had been assaulted, which is his excuse for never notifying the F.B.I. of this fact. The truth is that he offered Compean medical attention and had asked Compean several times if he was OK. The physical evidence was apparent as Compean was cut and covered with dirt. Richard's failure to notify the F.B.I. of the assault is the reason why the case was never investigated.

Because of the supervisor’s actions, none of the agent's filled out firearms discharge reports. This administrative policy violation calls for a five day suspension without pay. After checking again on Compean’s condition and asking him if he wanted to file assault charges, according to testimony, Richards then made a statement saying, “If we call the F.B.I. we are going to be here all night doing paperwork. We will never know who the person was that assaulted you although we've got the van and the marijuana." After than, everyone went back to work.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-08-01   14:35:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: HOUNDDAWG (#34) (Edited)

As I understand the matter, the shooting was w/i guidelines, but they failed to complete the report, paperwork, etc. I also understand that they could have pleaded to some infraction, but refused as they felt strongly that they were w/i their rights. Govt. then threw the book at them, cutting a deal w/the illegal POS and thereby ensuring every ounce of government energy would be used to prosecute.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-01   14:48:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Jethro Tull (#37)

That's right. Ramos and Compean's crime wasn't the shooting, which was justified, but the fact that they tried to cover it up. If they had just followed procedures, they wouldn't have given the pro-illegal immigrant media their Osvalda Davila martyr.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-01   15:52:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Elliott Jackalope (#36)


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-08-01   16:38:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: farmfriend (#0)

This is bullshit. Bush should pardon them. A good reporter would ask Obama and McCain if they would pardon these innocent men.

Freeper: I read, but do not understand, write, but make no sense, think, but nothing happens.

Turtle  posted on  2008-08-01   16:42:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Turtle (#40)

The media is not interested in the truth or asking hard questions. They just want their sound bight so they can get their copy in and go home.


"You have delusions of adequacy."

farmfriend  posted on  2008-08-01   16:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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