4um: Leave the United States if You Can

Title: Leave the United States if You Can
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/53010.html
Published: Aug 7, 2008
Author: Wendy McElroy
Post Date: 2008-08-07 00:49:53 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 606
Comments: 32

It is time -- arguably, it is past time -- for you to get your family and your wealth safely outside the borders of the United States. America has become a police state that is moving quickly toward total surveillance and, in typical American fashion, the resulting society will almost certainly be the "the best and the biggest" tyranny in the world.

Make plans right now while opportunities still exist to secure your wealth outside of the authorities' rapacious reach because that door of opportunity may be slammed in your face in the near future. It is not merely that government at all levels is starving for the cash that's dried up from property taxes and, so, will steal and confiscate like a drunken highwayman. Many factors point to rise of the Total State, which will grind up your freedom, your future and the lives of those who resist.

I read about 12 news sources a day, from far-left to the Religious Right; month by month, there is a dramatic increase in reports of police brutality, government surveillance, crack-downs, the control of daily life down to the minutia of which oils you may cook french fries... And there seems to be precious little opposition to the arrival of totalitarianism. Perhaps the flood of oppression is too overwhelming and has caused a general paralysis; at times, that is my reaction. But, mostly, I think people are either focused on financial survival or they actually applaud the Total State. Even those who believe they believe in freedom are among the applauders because they buy the justifications being offered for the annihilation of civil liberties. For example, consider just one of the incredible and successful assaults on the due process and liberties of us all; in the name of defending women and children, the campaign against sex offenders has created a class of "untouchables" in class-free America -- people whom the government tells where to live, how to make a living, which sites they can e-visit, etc., etc. In the name of noble goals, the government has erased the idea of serving out a time in jail (which used to be called "paying your debt to society") and, instead, established the idea of indefinite sentences and 'forever' punishments.But the establishment of this caste system is just one aspect of the wild plunge into tyranny.

What should worry you the most is that everything has occurred before the economic collapse of the United States, which I believe will happen in the near future. (The timing depends somewhat on when "too many" foreign-held dollars are dumped back into America.) I expect a severe depression to unfold over the next few years. And nothing, nothing, nothing encourages the growth of State as much as people who are frightened and hungry/homeless. An entire population can turn to a leader much as children turn toward a parent...and for the same reason: to feel safe.

If an economic depression is added to the convergence of the police state with a total surveillance society, then I honestly don't know what will happen. But I do know that you don't want to be there to find out. Don't be fooled by those who say "but America has too strong a tradition of freedom for this to happen." Pre-Nazi Germans thought their culture was too sophisticated and fine to allow the triumph of barbarism. Leave.

What a timely post! They are closing the loopholes and building the border barriers NOW FINALLY but for their OWN reasons.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Anyone with a young family, imo, should strongly consider plan "Other than AmeriKa". If there is another viable plan available still. I'd say any nation that hasn't prostrated itself before .gov will when the new International Central Bank currency deal is brought forth.

When America Ceases To Be Good (Reposted by Mike Rivero- Was Posted Here at 4um)

America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.

Is America a Good Nation? Is she a Great Nation? Let's examine the evidence. Of late to quickly reveal the hearts of America's leaders I tell people about World War I's Belgian War Relief. During the Great War, the citizens on the home front were extolled to donate to help the widows and orphans of war weary Belgium. The British loaded food and other supplies onto railroad cars in Belgium and sent them across no man's land into German occupied territory to feed the soldiers who were killing British husbands, fathers, sons and brothers. Britain lost 750,000 during the war. Several times that many died after the war from wounds they received during the war. All of them were killed by enemy soldiers who had been fed by the Allied leaders and their favorite charity, Belgian War Relief.

America's leaders knew that the Great War would have ended in 1915 or 1916 if Wall Street had not promised that America would enter the war. In fact America entered World War I precisely so the war would last longer and kill even more people than it otherwise would have. Our leaders made no demand that Belgian War Relief be discontinued prior to U.S. entry to protect our troops in the trenches. Nor did they demand that the British stop the flow of other war materiel through Sweden, Spain and Portugal. What the allies did demand was that the war continue until a Jewish Communist dictatorship was established in Russia and a Jewish colony was created in Palestine. That 60,000,000 human beings were killed in the Soviet Union was of no concern to our leaders. That 35,000 Americans died during World War I and more than 8,000 were blinded did not bother them. That another 100,000 American soldiers died from their wounds before Armistice Day in 1928 does not merit a footnote in their writings. They are not concerned about us. I have always wondered why we care for those who do not care for us.

So I now ask you, does a Good Nation kill tens of millions of innocent people on a whim? And even if we are a Good People how long will we continue to have a Great Nation with leaders like ours?

More recently we went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Iraq had no Weapons of Mass Destruction and no ties with Al Qaeda. In fact they were enemies. All of this was known before the invasion. Yet the controlled news media did not share these facts with us until after the occupation had become a disaster. So why are we killing so many innocent people and sacrificing the lives of so many of our young soldiers and marines? Bear with me a minute as we go back in time to 4-19-1995 to shed light on 9-11 the event that first galvanized the public to support the “War on Terror.”

On 4-19-1995 morning a 52 year-old woman was in the Social Security office in the Alfred Murrah building in Oklahoma City when she looked out the window and saw a man she later learned was Timothy McVeigh get out of a yellow Ryder truck and walk across the street. About half a minute later she saw a second man get out of the same truck and walk away. Then a bomb exploded, the building collapsed and she lost her leg. Nineteen people saw McVeigh with another man that morning and the day before. None of these witnesses were called to place McVeigh at the scene of the greatest crime in modern American history until 9- 11. 168 people were killed that day including 19 children in the daycare center. Why would the Department of Justice (DOJ) not call eye witnesses unless they needed to protect the man who actually did light the fuse? The FBI and DOJ both acted to protect the man who left the Ryder truck after McVeigh and therefore was most likely to have lit the fuse to the truck bomb.

Many different sources and witnesses have traced the plot to destroy the Oklahoma City federal building to Elohim City, a supposed right wing extremist compound in northeast Oklahoma. Two weeks prior to the bombing there was a meeting held at that compound. Court records redacted the name of one participant. It only identified him as being from Morris Dees's Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) which has often run infiltration programs in behalf of the FBI and Department of Justice. The other two participants were Robert Millar, a Canadian Jewish psychologist, and Andreas Strassmeir, a German Jewish man who had served as an intelligence officer in the German Army. The Bureau of Alcohol and Tobacco agents in Oklahoma City were outside the Murrah building in combat gear all night long on the night of the 18th and into the morning of the 19th. None of the BATF agents were inside when the bomb detonated. Nor were any of their children in the daycare center. The only BATF employee inside the building was the woman who answered the phones until the building collapsed.

The FBI said on 4-19-1995 that the Ryder truck contained a 1,200 pound fertilizer bomb parked 40 feet from the building and was the sole cause of the collapse. The next day the the size of the bomb was upgraded to 4,200 pounds and then to 5,200 pounds, but the FBI claimed it was still this one bomb that took down the Murrah building. General Ben Partin who was in charge of ordnance (i.e. bombs) for the U.S. Air Force issued a report immediately after the bombing giving compelling evidence that the truck bomb did not take down the Murrah building. He pointed out that interior columns were taken out and that columns between the Ryder truck and those interior columns were left in tact. This is not possible scientifically so the FBI and the DOJ lied. The Congress and the Senate were given individual copies of the Partin report. Not one Senator began a filibuster to stop all voting until the FBI told the truth. Not one congressman refused to vote for any appropriations in the House until the DOJ told the truth. Ask yourself this question: Do Great Nations allow the government to protect the persons who set off bombs inside a building that killed 168 of its own citizens including 19 children age five and under?

Let's revisit 9-11-2001. On that morning bombs went off inside both the North and South Towers of the World Trade Center even before the two planes struck. There were multiple witnesses to this fact. And we also have multiple witnesses to a bomb that was detonated 3 ½ minutes prior to Flight 77 striking the Pentagon. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld admitted to a press conference on 9-10-2001 that he could not trace 2.3 trillion dollars (That's trillions not billions) in Department of Defense spending. Flight 77 was originally headed towards Rumsfeld's office until it took a 270 degree turn and came in at 400 plus mph barely 20 feet above ground and hit in the exact same area where a bomb had already killed 40 military auditors who were attempting to trace those missing trillions of dollars.

I do not want to dwell at length on 9-11. But WTC Tower 7 which was not struck by a plane also collapsed that day. The BBC announced the collapse of WTC 7 some 20 minutes before it happened. It collapsed in 6.5 seconds. Videos of the building reveal that there were no fires hot enough to melt the glass windows. This means the temperature inside the building was below 800 to 900 degrees and was therefore not hot enough to melt steel. Let me describe how a controlled demolition works so you will understand what really happened. You place thermite or better yet thermate which are cutting agents at 45 degree angles adjacent to each of the girders every two floors. If you are not familiar with thermate you can look it up at Wikipedia. It is a cutting agent that burns at 4,800 degrees and melts steel in seconds. You would also need to place detonation charges to bring down the building and to attach wires running from the cutting agents and the bombs to a central control computer. The bombs and cutting agents have to go off in the proper order so that one floor is not left intact and does not resist the collapsing floors above it. If each successive floor resists the fall of the floors, it could take 100 seconds for a building to collapse and even then you could not guarantee that it would fall straight down. This is called the pancake effect and can take up to 100 seconds to complete. The persons who took down the WTC on 9-11 successfully took out all of the support columns on all of the floors simultaneously. And they did that three times in one day without alerting either the national news media or the DOJ and FBI.

I now ask you this question: Do Good Nations blow up buildings with thousands of people inside in order to scare the general population into declaring war on an innocent nation and kill more than 1,000,000 people during a senseless occupation? Can America still be considered Great? It certainly is no longer Good.

Currently the leaders of both political parties have approved the use of Depleted Uranium. It was used by Clinton in his Kosovo campaign and in Iraq in his air strikes to enforce the no-fly zone. Depleted Uranium is twice as heavy as lead so it can penetrate an enemy tank. It is pyrophoric meaning it bursts into flames and cooks the occupants. It is radioactive so it irradiates the bad guys, induces cancer in them and gives birth defects to their unborn children too. The fly in the ointment is that DU after it goes pyrophoric is converted into particles less than one micron in size which means they can become permanently airborne and do the same to our soldiers and marines as they did to our enemies. In fact even support military personnel and our allies in neighboring countries are exposed. DU can also get into the soil and water. The half-life of Depleted Uranium is 4.5 billion years so we are poisoning the planet for a very long time. Do Great Nations poison future generations including the unborn children of their own soldiers? I say No, but the leaders of both political parties continue to kill those who have volunteered to defend their country.

Thousands of tons of Depleted Uranium were dropped on Iraq and Afghanistan in order, I believe, to destroy those nations and to set an example to any country that refuses to bow to the joint will of the United States and Israel.

So why are we still in Iraq? Does anything about the Iraq war make sense? The occupation is a terror generator and is not a valid part of the alleged war against terror. I believe that the people who killed the military auditors at the Pentagon, and took down World Trade Center Towers 1, 2 and 7 in controlled demolitions wanted us to destroy Iraq and Iran. It is as if the perpetrators of 9-11 had the power to blow and whistle and announce “I want you to begin killing and to keep killing until I blow the whistle again to stop.” They have not yet blown the whistle the second time to tell us we can stop killing and dying. Our leaders want these current wars to continue for a reason.

As I said in my previous article, I believe that Bush has put 17,500 sailors and marines in the Persian Gulf precisely so their ships can be sunk by Iran's Russian made anti-ship missiles after the Israelis strike Iran with American donated bunker busting nuclear weapons. Our self-appointed leaders are willing to sacrifice the lives of 17,500 sailors and marines just so they can start World War III. Great nations do not kill whenever the politicians and the media tells incredible lies. Everything we have been told about every war from 1914 to the invasion of Iraq has been a lie. How real were our wars when both sides had the same bankers? The only really true statement we can make about our wars is that we killed tens of millions of people and sacrificed the lives of our soldiers for nothing.

The American dollar is on the verge of total collapse. We are obviously being led to World War III at this time because our leaders do not expect America to survive as a sovereign nation for more than a year or two. They have stolen our government. They have sacrificed the lives of those men and women who enlisted in the military mistakenly thinking they are defending their country. Our leaders are insane. They will destroy America and the world.

America long ago ceased to be either Good or Great. We have one last chance in the coming year to do something Great as a people. We must reject all of their lies. We must reject all of their wars. We must no longer believe anything we see in their controlled press. We must realize there is no Opposition Party. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are war parties and were long ago bought and paid for by Wall Street and by the Zionists.

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Bilderberg Society and the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) have announced their plan to form a North American Union (NAU) merging America with Canada and Mexico by 2010. I see no reason why a nation that is neither Good nor Great should not surrender its sovereignty. Of course the citizens of the nation that used to be known as America might object to their new status as serfs on the Global Plantation. I know they will be angry when they discover that the coming hyperinflation will permamently cut their real after tax wages by 50% and their savings by 90%. But I explained that in my prevoius essays.

As I said in my last essay, I believe we will soon have martial law. I have since made plans to leave America before it becomes a dictatorship. We have at least a few months left of relative freedom. I am fortunate to have a profession which can be practiced overseas.

I was born an American. I was born free. I loved the country I knew as a child. I will always be an American even though the country I loved will soon cease to exist. It is with great sadness that I announce my decision to leave my native land before it dies.

I am under no illusions about the nature of the people who think they own our government. They have declared unto themselves the new power of Extraordinary Rendition which means they believe they have the right to kidnap, imprison, torture, and even kill any person anywhere in the world. I want to leave this country not because I am foolish enough to think it will make me safe but because I can no longer justify being part of the Greatest Force for Evil in the twenty-first century.

Where should we move to? When Germans were fleeing Nazi Germany, were they called unpatriotic? They were saving their own behinds! I choose not to associate myself with this present government any longer. Many countries in South America and Europe seem to be either partial allies with the US (England) or are dependent on the US dollar (Costa Rica, for example).That can be bad Where can I take my family that is SOMEWHAT safe? I am not looking for America II (it does not exist), but a place that respects human rights and property? (Am I asking too much?)

The Hollywood dim bulbs have announced in the past that if so and so gets elected to the Oval Office, they will leave the country. But they're still here. So even they with all the $ they have at their disposal, realize that America is the best nation in the world, that it's only DC that emits the stinky poopie smell.

Those who don't want to leave and are willing to fight should stay and break off their own country.

Leave this country in the hands of ungrateful wretches who would ruin it?? NO!!! It is those who see our heritage and Constitution as an impediment who should leave us!!!!

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." Samuel Adams

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” Schweizerische Schutzenseitunt (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

I'd like to expand on that idea, if I may. I propose that there is a fundamental equation to be considered, that simply stated would say "the bigger the country, the less likely it is to represent its citizens". I submit that it is simply not possible for any nation to be much larger than about ten to fifteen million people before the simple mechanics of population versus power brokers gets so out of whack that it becomes effectively impossible for a nation to represent the people it's supposed to serve.

I realize we were supposed to be the "United States of America", with separate states having most of the power, and a limited federal government, but I think we can all agree that as of now that was obviously a dreadfully flawed concept that could never work over the long run. I suggest that "We The People" would be MUCH better served if the U.S. were to break apart into about thirty or more smaller countries, and by that I mean TOTALLY SOVEREIGN and SEPARATE COUNTRIES that maintain friendly relations, and could even enjoy the benefits of "free trade", common standards for roads and power grids, sanitation standards etc. while maintaining SEPARATE governments, SEPARATE currencies and SEPARATE economies. This could also become a possible opportunity to begin reining in the unimaginable power of trans-national corporations. Just a thought.

Ummmm...that's okay by me as long as my nation-state stands alone in that 30 state concept thingie, which you are proposing - I don't want to have my nation-state paired with Mexico or with Israel, 'kay? I mean let's face it, someone's going to have to be paired with one or both of those 2 deadbeat albatross states - there's only room for 30, right? And I'm just saying that I don't want my nation-state to assume The Grand Burden, that's all.

The Republicrats and their Zionist leaders are committed to America's war against Israel's enemies in the Middle East for the long haul. The existence of Israel is dependent on America; the quislings in Congress and whatever suckpoop goy happens to be sitting in the Oval Office will not hesitated to re- institute the draft if the war goes badly, say, Baghdad becomes a Stalingrad and or the US heartland endures terror attacks. The Zionist in charge of America will not permit rebellion; as a last resort foreign troops could be called in to restore law and order. Gulags are already in place across America.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace.

Let it be known that there are those of us that cannot justify leaving our place of birth and that of our children regardless of the future perils to be witnessed. Running to another place might be a temporary solution to what looks to be a permanent problem.

Once the powder of revolution is ignited and events begin to take on the shape of liberation from the yoke of elitist fascists ... will the cowards want to return home or remain hidden in some 3rd world shithole ?

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

I understand that many feel distress about the current condition of America. Yet, most have refused to take even the simplest of steps to change things. I'm not talking about writing your congress-creep, I'm talking about firing your congress-creep. Expatriation by millions starts with each of us individually.

We are MANY. The current government has very little support and should have NONE ! It is up to us and we have a right to run our own lives especially when those that have been entrusted with protecting have become vicious attack dogs.

The pencil necked eastern establishment sons of pig-fucking bitches that are ruining OUR LIVES must be expelled by whatever means available and all sorts of resistance implemented.

Whose wonderful gift of life is it that is being stolen ? It's yours and mine. If you continue to lay down and pay taxes to the fuck-heads killing our children then you too are in a way the enemy within. Get out of your comfort zone and take a good hard look at financially supporting the "BEAST" because it's less problematic, more convenient and somewhat tolerable.

When you look in the mirror are you viewing a murderer or an accomplice to genocide ?

hi formiko, welcome to 4um. i have no plans to leave. i have friends who have recently purchased 290 acres somewhere in Ecuador and others who have plans to expatriate to Honduras and Panama. no thanks. until/unless it gets to the point that tanks are rolling down the streets of Austin, i'm staying. of course, then it's too late anyway.

i suppose we could take Wendy's advice as far as protecting finances as best we can.

That IS the question, isn't it and the answer is different for each of us. For the average mono lingual, in debt American, the answer is simple: nowhere.

Not an option for me unless I left behind my family. Born an American and I'll die an American at a time and place yet to be determined.

If you decide to stay in America, please be advised that the Zionists will start multiple race wars in order to divide the country. The dollar will collapse and unemployment rate will be over 20% so no city will be safe especially if you are white and therefore a minority. A few well placed car bombs could spark the most intense race war in American history. That would cause many Americans to accept foreign occupation troops. Many Mexican- Americans I have talked to told me that they would approve having Mexican soldiers occupy American cities. If there is a race war,I would not want to be anywhere in Latin America.

Many American flag officers, (that is, generals and admirals, active and retired) are true patriots. Remember it was Maj. Gen Smedley Butler who not only authored WAR IS A RACKET, but he also blew the whistle on the plan known as the Business Plot to overthrow the FDR govt and install a military dictatorship.

And, we've all read that there was a group of officers including the now deceased Adm. Jeremy Boorda who intended to arrest Clinton for treason, and then the plane carrying most of the officers crashed and Boorda was "suicided" after being hounded by a CIA functionary (Col. David H. Hackworth-he never saw a CIA assassination plot in Vietnam that he didn't love) about an upcoming expose that would have tainted Boorda's career forever.

And, the repeated surveys of American troops, asking if they'd fire on Americans to disarm us keep coming up short of the desired results. And, let's not forget that The UN refused to take over Bush's shit pile in Iraq and no more was heard about it.

It's natural for us to default to worst case scenarios when discussing the future, but I'm not at all convinced that BushCo, the most hated regime in the world and possibly in all of history could pull a martial law overthrow of the constitution off.

There are too many patriots in uniform, and it would only take one well placed CO with nukes and/or loyalist troops to force the blue suited closet homos into exile. This govt has abused our military so viciously that it may be the first in our history who cannot count on the blind loyalty of those in uniform. Bush has forced too many active, retired, maimed and forgotten troops and their families who struggle to care for them to think for themselves.

Before we plot hasty exits (can you imagine millions trying to sneak through the same choke points undetected?) we should resolve that we are not going to let that happen. And, if we are sincere in that resolve then it won't.

Canada, U.S. agree to use each other's troops in civil emergencies

Canada and the U.S. have signed an agreement that paves the way for the militaries from either nation to send troops across each other's borders during an emergency, but some are questioning why the Harper government has kept silent on the deal.

Neither the Canadian government nor the Canadian Forces announced the new agreement, which was signed Feb. 14 in Texas.

The U.S. military's Northern Command, however, publicized the agreement with a statement outlining how its top officer, Gen. Gene Renuart, and Canadian Lt.-Gen. Marc Dumais, head of Canada Command, signed the plan, which allows the military from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation during a civil emergency.

American soldiers arrive on board the HMCS TORONTO as part of a training exercise in carrying out a NATO presence patrol in the Indian Ocean near Somalia. A new agreement between the U.S. and Canadian militaries has been greeted with suspicion by the left wing in Canada and the right wing in the U.S.

The new agreement has been greeted with suspicion by the left wing in Canada and the right wing in the U.S.

The left-leaning Council of Canadians, which is campaigning against what it calls the increasing integration of the U.S. and Canadian militaries, is raising concerns about the deal.

"It's kind of a trend when it comes to issues of Canada-U.S. relations and contentious issues like military integration. We see that this government is reluctant to disclose information to Canadians that is readily available on American and Mexican websites," said Stuart Trew, a researcher with the Council of Canadians.

Trew said there is potential for the agreement to militarize civilian responses to emergency incidents. He noted that work is also underway for the two nations to put in place a joint plan to protect common infrastructure such as roadways and oil pipelines.

"Are we going to see (U.S.) troops on our soil for minor potential threats to a pipeline or a road?" he asked.

Trew also noted the U.S. military does not allow its soldiers to operate under foreign command so there are questions about who controls American forces if they are requested for service in Canada. "We don't know the answers because the government doesn't want to even announce the plan," he said.

But Canada Command spokesman Commander David Scanlon said it will be up to civilian authorities in both countries on whether military assistance is requested or even used.

He said the agreement is "benign" and simply sets the stage for military-to-military co-operation if the governments approve.

"But there's no agreement to allow troops to come in," he said. "It facilitates planning and co-ordination between the two militaries. The 'allow' piece is entirely up to the two governments."

If U.S. forces were to come into Canada they would be under tactical control of the Canadian Forces but still under the command of the U.S. military, Scanlon added.

News of the deal, and the allegation it was kept secret in Canada, is already making the rounds on left-wing blogs and Internet sites as an example of the dangers of the growing integration between the two militaries.

On right-wing blogs in the U.S. it is being used as evidence of a plan for a "North American union" where foreign troops, not bound by U.S. laws, could be used by the American federal government to override local authorities.

"Co-operative militaries on Home Soil!" notes one website. "The next time your town has a 'national emergency,' don't be surprised if Canadian soldiers respond. And remember - Canadian military aren't bound by posse comitatus."

Posse comitatus is a U.S. law that prohibits the use of federal troops from conducting law enforcement duties on domestic soil unless approved by Congress.

Scanlon said there was no intent to keep the agreement secret on the Canadian side of the border. He noted it will be reported on in the Canadian Forces newspaper next week and that publication will be put on the Internet.

Scanlon said the actual agreement hasn't been released to the public as that requires approval from both nations. That decision has not yet been taken, he added.

You can pick off some good deals on ebay, getting them at melt value including shipping, but you have to do a little digging to find the good buys.

Thanks for the link...anymore useful info please feel free to forward! I am an avid reader and blogger!

Canada, U.S. agree to use each other's troops in civil emergencies

David Pugliese , Canwest News Service