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Title: One Nation Under Siege
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URL Source: http://video.google.com/videoplay?d ... WmtUZ&q=one+nation+under+siege
Published: Jul 27, 2007
Author: William Lewis
Post Date: 2008-08-10 01:27:41 by wudidiz
Ping List: *9-11* Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 591
Comments: 51
One Nation Under Siege
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#12. To: buckeye (#9)
You're just lookin' for trouble, aren't you? ;-)
You're welcome Sir, I'm glad you liked it.
My maiden name is Marrs.
A tainted source is worse than useless.
Oh, I see.
This is a common logical fallacy. Argumentum ad hominem basically means that the argument becomes directed towards the individual as opposed towards the crucial issues being discussed. It is succinctly described as, attack the messenger not the message (hence – shoot the messenger). It is often seen in both politics and pseudoscience. Its aim is to undermine the position of ones opponent, by undermining the opponent personally (in a manner that is actually completely irrelevant to the debate). The hope here is that if one can discredit the individual, this by default, discredits his / her argument. It does not. The fallacy here relates to the irrelevance of the attack. It is not viable to argue against a position and then justify that argument by criticising the individual who holds it.
Identification of the form of my rhetorical attack offers no protection against the fundamental vulnerability here, which is the association of the liberty campaign with intellectual garbage.
Are you defending the present form of government? Jim Marrs is attacking it. He calls it 'National Socialism'. Do you disagree? Just because you don't understand or agree with something doesn't mean it's intellectual garbage. You'd be better to address the issues. Using strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks doesn't benefit the liberty campaign.
Is that what you think I'm doing?
If you ask you're wife if she's cheating on she answers you, "Is that what you think I'm doing." Wouldn't you prefer if she'd just say, "No."? I'm not exactly sure what you're doing except that I can see you're employing logical fallacies in your arguments and I consider that to be counter-productive. It's a consensus on this forum that our government has verged into nationalist socialism. Now that opinion is associated with conspiracy researchers who believe in aliens. Outstanding work.
Maybe he's circumcized. Maybe he's not. Who cares? At least he's got the parts to speak out. While he still can.
And be ignored because of the association with little green men, which probably have nothing to do with our problems. Oh well, you don't mind. It's all good.
Is it? You don't know if aliens exist here or not. Just because you choose not to 'believe' it, doesn't mean it's not so. There is alot of evidence to suggest that they might. Greater minds than you or I believe they are/have been here. How can you benefit by closing your mind to it? It suggest that if it makes you feel so uncomfortable, open your mind to it, consider it without prejudice, or drop it entirely.
Globalist Socialism
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
And you haven't the foggiest idea, either. But it's fun to talk about it, isn't it? A lot of fun, apparently. However, I do know that my country has lost its legal basis on account of its refusal to adhere to its own constitutional underpinnings. I can identify the people responsible for that without asking Jim Marrs a single question. But by all means, do pursue your flights of fancy wherever they take you.
You don't have to get all snitty about it. Lighten up, eh? You're not alone with your concerns.
You're apparently not alone, either, heh.
Ooh, ooh, ooh; I know this one. It's not the actual AmeriKan quislings, it's the Joooooos/Israel!
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
All that they didn't cover was the open borders, the struggling economy, and the insanity in the ME. We ARE under siege.
Don't we have similar concerns, buckeye? Aren't we in this together?
“When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you.” ~ African Proverb
Using suspicious sources to back up any criticism of Israel or the Jews [tends to discredit] the line of investigation the same way ETs do. (Israel is on planet earth.) But that's so rare, isn't it?
Was I right or wrong?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
To the extent that such criticisms would include dubious sources, or might contain irrational or illogical reasoning, you are correct 100%. The ADL finds it very convenient, in fact.
Haaaaahahahaha! When you get serious about solving America's problems and can focus on what we CAN control, please let me know. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
LOL
Actually, it does. And it works the other way too. Ideas are given credit according to their source. Hardly anybody ever objects to that -- they might themselves be a creditable source some day! ;-) Anyway, knowledge is not free, and behaviors in both directions economize on knowledge costs. On this basis, it's not wrong or even illogical. It's a law of mass human interaction, and you have to account for it.
Hmmmm... Aliens.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#13. To: lodwick (#10)
Thanks for the post.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#14. To: wudidiz (#11)
What do you mean?
"You have delusions of adequacy."
#15. To: wudidiz (#12)
#16. To: farmfriend (#14)
My maiden name is Marrs.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#17. To: buckeye (#15)
(Edited)
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#18. To: wudidiz (#17)
#19. To: buckeye (#18)
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#20. To: wudidiz (#19)
Are you defending the present form of government?
#21. To: buckeye (#20)
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#22. To: wudidiz (#21)
#23. To: buckeye (#22)
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#24. To: wudidiz (#23)
#25. To: buckeye (#24)
It's all good.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#26. To: buckeye (#22)
It's a consensus on this forum that our government has verged into nationalist socialism.
#27. To: wudidiz (#25)
You don't know if aliens exist here or not.
#28. To: buckeye (#27)
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#29. To: wudidiz (#28)
#30. To: buckeye (#27)
And you haven't the foggiest idea, either. But it's fun to talk about it, isn't it? A lot of fun, apparently. However, I do know that my country has lost its legal basis on account of its refusal to adhere to its own constitutional underpinnings. I can identify the people responsible for that without asking Jim Marrs a single question.
#31. To: wudidiz (#13)
#32. To: buckeye (#29)
You're apparently not alone, either, heh.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#33. To: lodwick (#31)
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#34. To: Rotara (#30)
(Edited)
#35. To: buckeye (#34)
#36. To: Rotara (#35)
(Edited)
#37. To: buckeye (#36)
To the extent that such criticisms would include dubious sources, or might contain irrational or illogical reasoning, you are correct 100%. The ADL finds it very convenient, in fact.
#38. To: Rotara (#37)
#39. To: wudidiz, buckeye (#17)
The hope here is that if one can discredit the individual, this by default, discredits his / her argument. It does not.
| Calm down Marty, I didn't disintegrate anything. The molecular structure of both Einstein and the car are completely intact. |
#40. To: Tauzero (#39) (Edited)
Giving credit to an idea doesn't make it true.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#41. To: Tauzero (#39)
If an idiot says objects fall at a rate of 9.8 m/s squared and a genius says they don't, which idea gets the credit? It's the argument at hand that needs to be addressed. Just because people don't believe in aliens doesn't mean there aren't any aliens. Just because Jim Marrs 'believes in' or thinks that there are aliens doesn't mean he isn't a credit to the Liberty movement. 
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#42. To: wudidiz (#40)
So? Many people continue to listen to Oprah. Truth doesn't set you free. It just makes you a good customer to your psychoanalyst.
| Calm down Marty, I didn't disintegrate anything. The molecular structure of both Einstein and the car are completely intact. |
#43. To: Tauzero (#42)
I don't listen to Oprah, like truth and don't have a psychoanalyst.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#44. To: Tauzero (#42)
Sorry. I've listened to Oprah before. Not much though. She's alright. For a TV talk show host. I like Letterman better.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#45. To: wudidiz (#41)
If he wasn't a credit, could we tell the difference? Would the situation be measurably worse?
Just because Jim Marrs 'believes in' or thinks that there are aliens doesn't mean he isn't a credit to the Liberty movement.
| Calm down Marty, I didn't disintegrate anything. The molecular structure of both Einstein and the car are completely intact. |
#46. To: Tauzero (#45)
Good questions.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#47. To: wudidiz (#43)
That's what you think.
don't have a psychoanalyst
| Calm down Marty, I didn't disintegrate anything. The molecular structure of both Einstein and the car are completely intact. |
#48. To: Tauzero, Wudidiz (#42)
Why would someone pay a psycho for anything? Believing comfortable lies does not stop a nuclear weapon launched by a liar. Believing the world is flat does not change the shape of the earth. Hint: You can't fall of the edge of an Oblate Spheroid.
Truth doesn't set you free. It just makes you a good customer to your psychoanalyst.
"The truth is cruel, but it can be loved, and sets free those who have loved it." ~ Albert Camus
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
#49. To: Original_Intent (#48)
When the mark demands to hear the Truth, he already wants to hear the pitch.
Why would someone pay a psycho for anything?
| Calm down Marty, I didn't disintegrate anything. The molecular structure of both Einstein and the car are completely intact. |
#50. To: wudidiz (#0)
Thanks a million...I am passionate about the truth and believe that the ruling elite have had their last hurray!!! Wonderful documentary!
#51. To: texaslvr77 (#50)
Glad you liked it.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
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