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Title: Loathing mounts as Russia reveals iron fist
Source:
Financial Times
URL Source: http://tinyurl.com/63dzak
Published: Aug 10, 2008
Author: Charles Clover
Post Date: 2008-08-10 18:46:13 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 712
Comments: 62
Published: August 10 2008 18:26 | Last updated: August 10 2008 18:26 The people of Tirdzsuzi, a settlement on a picturesque rural road, remember how things used to be with their neighbours in the town of Tskhinvali, 20km away. Despite the fact that Tirdzsuzi is made up of ethnic Georgians, while Tskhinvali is composed largely of ethnic Ossetians, “this never used to bother anyone”, says Mabuku Sakulachvili, an elderly farmer. “We used to trade with them, we used to marry each other. There were never any problems.” As he speaks an explosion a few kilometres away is a reminder that the town is just 6km from the front line. Russian troops were advancing through the South Ossetian breakaway region towards the settlement on Sunday, after capturing Tskhinvali from Georgian troops after days of fighting. “Its those tanks,” says Mr Sakulachvili, waving his hand to indicate five Georgian T-72 tanks hidden – badly – in foliage. “The Russian jets must have found them.” All along this road the occasional antennae sticking out of a tree is the only sign of the Georgian army deployed along the likely route of a Russian advance. With camouflage as their only defence, they are constant prey for Russian fighter aircraft darting through the skies, bombing almost with impunity. Georgia’s air force lies in ruins, largely destroyed on runways within the first hours of the war. Mr Sakulachvili’s son, Irakli, is in one of the units camped out on the road, a gangly youth wearing US-issue desert camouflage that he got during a seven-month stint with coalition troops in Iraq. He announces he cannot talk to reporters, and his comrades do the same. The tiny Georgian army that all weekend has faced a far superior force of Russians has surprised its foes with its tenacity and skill. But its tiny core of a thousand or so fierce and professional fighters, trained by US and Israeli advisers, has been all but overwhelmed by the air power the Russians have brought to bear. There is little to back up this professional force, which withdrew from their positions on Sunday in what was described by the government as a “tactical relocation”. The bulk of the forces on Sunday that lay along the road from Tskhinvali were conscripts and national guardsmen with a week of military training. Some were without uniforms and there was a desperate lack of vehicles: city buses and civilian cars were pressed into service. In the regional centre of Gori, south of Tirdzsuzi and 30km from Tskhinvali, the situation is dire. Most residents left the city after Russian jets bombed the town on Saturday morning, hitting an army base but also three apartment buildings nearby. The bombs blasted through the buildings, hurling flaming bodies into the streets, residents say. Two hospitals in the town are full of injured from the front, and sobbing mothers and wives wait for news of their loved ones. Reservists who a few days ago were bank tellers or janitors mill around gloomily, waiting for orders. A unit of Georgian commandos, wearing bandanas and driving sleek four-wheel drives, show footage captured on a mobile phone of the wreckage of a Russian Tu-22 fighter bomber. The pilot of the aircraft, who survived, was shown on television soon afterwards. Georgians are still in a state of shock and unsure why the conflict started. Most refuse to blame their president, Mikheil Saakashvili, for launching an offensive against the South Ossetian enclave on Thursday night, seemingly miscalculating that the Russian army would not intervene – or, if it did, that international pressure would force a quick ceasefire. “He didn’t have a choice. He had to act as he did,” says Nina Rusadze, a press officer for the Georgian military. Most back the Georgian government, saying their living standards have improved under Mr Saakashvili and that he deserves some credit for “making Georgia a normal country”. The issue of Ossetian sovereignty is far from the thoughts of most Georgians, who do not seem to share the government’s preoccupation with it. Mr Sakulachvili scratches his head and remembers fondly friendships with his Ossetian neighbours in Tskhinvali, but says things started to change after the fall of the Soviet Union and the brief civil war that the enclave fought to gain de facto independence from Georgia in 1991-92. But even after that there was no hostility with his friends in Tskhinvali, he says. “The Ossetians have nothing to do with this,” he believes. “Its just the Russians.” COUNTDOWN TO CONFLICT July 4 2008 South Ossetia orders “general mobilisation” of forces against Georgia after two people killed in shelling. Moscow accuses Tbilisi of “act of aggression”. July 9 Russia admits its aircraft have flown over South Ossetia to avoid “bloodshed”. August 1 Six killed in shoot-out in South Ossetia, which says Georgian forces were first to shoot. Georgia blames separatists. August 3 Hundreds flee South Ossetia as battles continue between the separatists and Georgia. Russia warns that South Ossetia is close to “large-scale conflict”. August 6 Moscow accuses Georgia of sending warplanes into South Ossetia, a charge Tbilisi denies. Russia and the US urge a halt to the violence. August 7 Just hours after Mikhail Saakashvili, Georgia’s president, says he is offering a ceasefire August 8 Tbilisi warns that Russia and Georgia are on the brink of war after Russian tanks and troops enter South Ossetia. Fierce fighting for control of the regional capital breaks out. Georgia claims Russia has bombed targets outside the South Ossetian conflict zone, including the Georgian port of Poti. August 9 Tbilisi calls for a ceasefire after Moscow ramps up a military offensive. Russian officials say at least 2,000 civilians have died in the regional capital alone.
to the breakaway region, fresh fighting erupts. Russia sends in troops overnight.
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#1. To: Rotara (#0)
Painting Russia as a "hero" or "nice guy" in this Georgia thing is without merit. Russia never does anything not in their self interest.
Russia never does anything not in their self interest. Every country acts in self-interest - ours does except when Israel is in the picture. Russia is no hero most times, but the numb skulls running Georgia are trying their very best to make Russia look pretty darn good just now. Doesn't this image tug at your heart?: "Mr Sakulachvili’s son, Irakli, is in one of the units camped out on the road, a gangly youth wearing US-issue desert camouflage that he got during a seven-month stint with coalition troops in Iraq. He announces he cannot talk to reporters, and his comrades do the same. The tiny Georgian army that all weekend has faced a far superior force of Russians has surprised its foes with its tenacity and skill. But its tiny core of a thousand or so fierce and professional fighters, trained by US and Israeli advisers, has been all but overwhelmed by the air power the Russians have brought to bear." Stupid is as stupid does.
Russia never does anything not in their self interest. Like any other State.
Russia never does anything not in their self interest. There are no 'good guys' in all this. None. Russia stirred the pot inside Georgia's (breakaway provinces) territory just as much as Georgia did. Georgia is now going to be history. Unless the AmeriKan/NAU/EU/NATO/Israelis come to the rescue. And I can't see how that happens without Turkey's involvement. Of course Russia and China have treaties together in place too.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
There seems to be a strong undercurrent against the west's banking practices and Zionism in Russian politics.
Anyone that has been waiting until the last minute might have to wonder how close we are RIGHT NOW to that point in time. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Not wanting to assume the worst, I see Russia confining its hegemony to Ossetia, based on what I'm seeing.
How could Georgia not have known the outcome due to Russian air supremacy? Did they think Russia wouldn't come across? Did they think NATO/NAU/EU/Israel would come to the rescue with air power? There's also the possibility that this outcome was calculated into the equation for other reasons. That seems very possible all things considered.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Russia has a long history of land grabbing. "Other sovereign governments were annexed into Soviet liberation: Soviet foreign policy was the 10-steps forward 1-step back policy of "grab as much as they'll let you take". The Ukraine, Georgia, Romania, Bukovina, Bessarabia, East Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Albania, Bulgaria, East Austria - all nations "annexed" into the U.S.S.R. Most were parts of literal land grabs, and where Russia couldn't indoctrinate a nation into the Kremlin's framework, it simply set up a puppet government to be extorted openly." In 1938/39 Operation Grom by Stalin would have taken Russia to the English channel.
They're bombing deep into Georgia. They're destroying the country. Their infrastructure, including oil pipelines, etc. Russia is going to take control of a whole bunch they didn't have control over before this current clash.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
The words "seems" is an active verb.
Yes they do. They're very good at it. They're not alone either.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Russia never does anything not in their self interest. How fast we forget...didn't 2 American Presidents raise Uncle Joe and Russia to great ally ,big hero status not too long ago? I believe it was FDR and Truman that could not get over their admiration for our dear ally Russia.
They may not be alone but anyone that looks at a map can see they are the winner by ten lengths. They "currently" span eleven time zones. Stalin wanted ALL of western Europe and I doubt that goal has ever been discarded.
We'll see how severe this damage is, how much exaggerating is going on, and what happens next. Georgia and its new "friends" in NATO may have to concede that Ossetia is not theirs for the having anymore. This is very plain to me. It's a case of wishful thinking on the EU side if they think they can use force to resolve this. Maybe Russia wants something, and will ask in the UN forum. My sense is that this is ethnic. People who don't care about ethnic things might not understand that, which excludes Bush. He's mighty confused right now, I'd bet.
You have grave doubts, I see.
George Patton was a tactician, a strategist and a man that knew who the enemy was long before other Americans woke up.
Cyni, wasn't the enemy communism, namely Bolshevism and Stalinism? Must we blame the Russian people? Call me naive, but I would like to forgive and forget the Cold War as something pushed on both sides by its real sponsors.
Most certainly.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
It's not about people. It's about NATO and the pipeline that cuts out Russia.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
How do you suggest that this benefits the Russians, then? The pipeline doesn't go through Ossetia, so you're going to claim they'll retake all of Georgia to include the portions through which this pipeline must run? (I don't know its path geographically.)
Russia has lost land since their financial demise. This does NOT mean they now are happy and content. Russia is Russia, regardless of the faces put forward for public show. I would venture there is not a country in Eastern Europe that does NOT understand that one day Russia will be back with a vengeance.
There was no Cold War. Total set up. Pre planned probably, certainly by Russia/Germany and most likely their sponsors in AmeriKa. The PEOPLE of Russia, America, Israel, etc. need to rise up, hang all the Globalist quislings and move forward. Won't happen, but that's the only solution imo. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author On August 1, after eight years of bitter political intrigue, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline Company (BTC Co.) was founded during a document signing ceremony in London. Witnessed by representatives of the pipeline’s host countries Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey, the new corporation marks a major step in the opening of a new export route for Caspian Basin oil resources to the United States, Israel and Western European markets. The objectives of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, according to US officials, is to reduce dependence on OPEC oil producers in the Middle East, create a secure supply of oil to Israel, and begin to end dependence on Russian and Iranian oil transportation networks from the Caspian region. The preparation for the huge pipeline has already seen an escalation of US military activity in the former Soviet Republics bordering Russia, integrating them further into US military plans. The construction phase will see a dramatic further growth in US military operations. At an initial cost of $2.5 billion, estimated to double before completion and funded from “free public money” and private finance, BTC Co. will construct, operate and own the 1,750 kilometre pipeline from Baku in Azerbaijan, through the Georgian capital Tbilisi then onto the Turkish Mediterranean oil terminal at Ceyhan. The pipeline will be ready to pump oil in 2005 from a phase one development of the Azeri-Chirag-Gunashli oil field. Its capacity will be one million barrels per day. A 900-km gas pipeline running between Baku-Tbilisi-Erzarum, terminating in Turkey’s Anatolia region, will form the axis of the US sponsored Eurasian Energy Corridor. Since the Eurasian Energy Corridor project was officially launched in 1994, the US and Turkish government’s have sponsored various events announcing the “imminence” of a deal. As a result such declarations were increasingly greeted with cynicism. This time, however, pipe-lay contracts have been awarded. Consolidated Contractors International of Greece will construct Azerbaijan’s section. France’s Spie Capag will lead a joint venture with US Petrofac to lay the Georgian sector. BOTAS, the Turkish State pipeline company, will continue as the lump sum turnkey contractor for the Turkish sector of the pipeline. Bechtel (US) will be the main contractor for engineering, procurement and construction. The British Petroleum (BP) umbrella consortium, Azerbaijan International Oil Consortium (AIOC) first signed contracts to explore Azerbaijan’s Caspian oil and gas fields eight years ago. The BTC Co. project has caused fracturing within the Consortium. AIOC major shareholders, ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco continue to object to the pipeline project on commercial grounds, but the project is ready to move into construction phase. BP is the leading shareholder in the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline Company. September marks the tenth anniversary of BP’s outline agreement with Azerbaijan for exploration of the Azeri-Chirag-Gunashli oil field. Since then investment in BP projects in the country’s oil sector total $16 billion and is said to be the most complex infrastructure development in the world. Since November 1999, BP has shifted from a public “position of scepticism” to leading the formation of BTC Co. BP has not explained the abrupt change of policy, but oil industry analysts have accused BP of entering a political alliance with the Bush and Blair governments. A BP spokesman replied that Azerbaijan at present has limited oil reserves, but it is a “key component of its [BP’s] growth strategy” and that “the pipeline was a strategic route out of the South Caspian and had to be built.” BP’s policy change was in all likelihood prompted by a combination of the discovery in May 1999 of the Azeri Shah-Deniz oil field and the US administration’s financial guarantees. Negotiators for BTC Co. and US politicians were unable to convince executives of ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco, major shareholders in the AIOC, to become shareholders in the new corporation. At a conference on the BTC pipeline attended by US government officials, Chevron vice Chairman Richard Matzke declared, “pipeline projects required an incremental approach grounded in commercial realities, not perceived geopolitical imperatives.” He added, “Oil cannot be pulled through a pipeline, but can only be pushed.” ChevronTexaco and ExxonMobil are not objecting to political interference in commercial decisions. Through AIOC they have completed a new Russian pipeline from the Tengiz oil field in northwest Kazakhstan to the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk. Differences between oil executives over oil pipeline routes from the Caspian fields are not only commercial, but reflect differing political strategies within the Bush administration. Oil executives’ objections do have substance: the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline passes through regions of enormous political instability and social unrest. At one stage the Azeri section passes within 10 kilometres of the Azerbaijan and Armenia disputed border region, which caused terrible ethnic wars in the early 1990s. In Georgia the pipeline will pass through the Pankisi Gorge, home to Chechen forces. The Turkish section passes through its southeastern region, where the Kurdish minority lives. A spokesman for the London based Kurdish Human Rights group said, “This pipeline would militarise a corridor running from the Caspian to the Mediterranean.... This could threaten the fragile ceasefire in the Kurdish region through which the pipeline will pass”. Pete Holibil of Prague based CEE Bank-Watch warned that the jobs promised by host country governments would not materialise. BP has had to reign in estimates and insist that local economic impacts will be severely limited. Holibil added, “Local people lack basic energy supplies, but the oil and gas from the Caspian will be piped straight to Western markets. Local communities will be by-passed completely.” Not only is the pipeline created on entirely fresh ground with no previous infrastructure development, it also runs over three regions that suffer regular earthquakes. According to an environmental impact report, BP has brushed aside such dangers. Under different circumstances such obstacles would cause oil executives to terminate a planned commercial operation at the feasibility stage, but in this case the political necessity of US domination of the Caspian is driving commercial decisions. Pipeline volume does not correspond to the relatively small-scale volume of oil currently extracted from Azerbaijan. At present Azeri oil transported through the smaller AIOC pipeline from Baku to the Georgian Black Sea port of Supsa is 200,000 barrels per day. The port can only handle 80,000-ton tankers, whereas at Ceyhan a massive terminal will be built to handle 300,000-ton tankers. The US-BP project is expected to enter intense competition for the significant new oil fields discovered in Kazakhstan. One report said the “Bush administration insists that Kazakhstan [largest oil discoveries so far] join the planned Baku-Ceyhan project by building an underwater pipeline that would link its Caspian sea port of Akatu to the Azerbaijan capital (Baku). In Washington’s view, such a development would not only make the projected conduit more profitable, it would also tie Kazakhstan to its own Central Asian regional security build-up.” BTC Co. faces fierce competition from Iran and Russia. On March 26, 2001, Kazakhstan began pumping oil from its huge Tengiz oil field through a Russian pipeline to the major Black Sea oil terminal at Novorossiysk. They are also considering a deal with Iran to transport its oil from the huge new Kashagan oil fields to the Persian Gulf. On May 13, 2002, Russia and Kazakhstan struck an agreement over the demarcation of the northern Caspian seabed and both hope that it clears the way for further joint ventures. The protection of the pipeline has become a pretext for broader US military operations in the region. Controlling pipeline routes from the Caspian Sea has been identified by strategists as a key post Cold War objective. On April 29, the presidents of the three host countries met in the Turkish Black Sea port of Trabzon to discuss security issue surrounding the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline. Georgia’s Eduard Shevardnadze, Azerbaijan’s Heidar Aliev and Turkey’s Ahmet Necdet Sezer signed a security pact creating the foundations for reorienting its military structures to protect the pipeline and the Eurasian Energy Corridor. On February 21, two US Air force planes brought 40 US special advisors to Tbilisi, the Georgian capital—the first time US combat troops have been deployed in the Caucasus. They will prepare the groundwork for the later deployment of 200 Special Operations troops as part of the US’s “Georgia Train & Equip” programme. They will concentrate their activities in the Pankisi Gorge against Chechen and Islamic militants. Both the US and Russia have declared the gorge to be a hideout for fleeing Taliban and Al Qaeda terrorists. Although there is agreement on this question, the Russian government has reacted angrily to the latest incursion by US combat forces into what it regards as its own sphere of influence. Georgia has rejected Russian demands that its forces be allowed in to secure the Pankisi Gorge. Leading strategists in the US see the snubbing of Russian offers and the arrival of US troops as a strategic victory. An interview with the head of the state-run Georgian International Oil Corporation, Giorgi Chanturia, which is directly involved in negotiations at Trabzon, said, “All three states have said, through their presidents, that they will sign an agreement on the creation of co-ordination [structures] to ensure the safety of the two pipelines but also of the main communication arteries, the electricity transportation network, the fibre optic cables, etc.” Chanturia explained the significance of the arrival of US military personnel: “... the training programme will partly aim at helping Georgia ensure the safety of oil pipelines. As I said, [Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Turkey] have agreed to guarantee the safety of the pipelines on their respective territories. From the very beginning, we have said that issues related to the safety of the pipelines will be part of the [US] training programme.” Chanturia added, “What has been set up [in Trabzon] is a basis that will help bring regional co-operation with regard to the safety of the whole energy corridor to a new level in order to protect the interests of the producing countries, transit countries and consuming countries. What is at stake is not only the security of the pipelines, we are talking here about the entire energy corridor.” The next summit in Tbilisi is expected to attract growing interest in the former Soviet republics. Russian oil giant Lukoil, also a leading shareholder in AIOC, approached the Russian government on investment in BTC Co. but was instructed to reject all offers. The Russian government has for the last eight years supported an alternative Russian route to the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline. It has also sought agreement to form what the Russian press calls a “Central Asian OPEC.” In May 2001 the Eurasian Economic Commonwealth (EEC) was formed, creating a free trade zone between Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. Internal trade has increased by only one percent on the previous year. Russia is using the EEC to pursue common border defence agreements. According to Sergei Blagov in the Asian Times July 30, “Russian President Vladimir Putin diplomatically summed up the decision the other EEC member states would soon face: ‘Russia has to determine whether it needs to fortify its border with Kazakhstan, or guard [the Kazakh border further south]’”. One of Putin’s first acts after coming to power was to refocus Russian policy toward the Caspian Sea. A report in Caspian Sea Oil Studies explained, “Russia’s new leader, Vladimir Putin, was pushing ahead with an aggressive policy designed to recover Moscow’s regional hegemony. Soon after Putin’s March 26 election, Russia’s National Security Council declared the Caspian region to be one of Russia’s key foreign policy interests.” The report continues that the former energy minister Victor Kalyuzhny took up a newly created post on May 31, 2002 as a special co-ordinator on Caspian policy: “The creation of the post underlined a significant shift from Moscow’s ad hoc and disorganised approach seen during the Yeltsin era.... The ominous implications of Russia’s new policy were underlined by Andrei Urnov, Russia’s ambassador at large and chief of the Foreign Ministry’s Working Group on the Caspian Sea, in a May 2000 appearance on Capitol Hill.... Urnov told the Washington audience, ‘it hasn’t been left unnoticed in Russia that certain outside forces are trying to weaken our positions in the Caspian Basin, to drive a wedge between us and other Caspian states’”. Russia’s Naval Caspian Sea Flotilla is one of the few areas of military spending that has expanded. Over the last few years it has doubled in size. When the Soviet Caspian Navy was disbanded after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Russia had to withdraw from its main naval base in the Azerbaijan capital Baku and create a new one at Astrakhan. This reorientation of Russian naval power was displayed last during the largest Caspian Sea naval operations since 1991. Between August 1-15 this year, 60 ships, 30 aircraft and 10,000 military personnel took part in operations aimed at defending oilrigs, terminals and seaports. None the new states in the Caspian have any real military or naval capacity to match Russia’s. Iran, in an agreement signed in 1924 with the former Soviet Union, was not allowed naval bases along its Caspian coastline. Due to the expansion of Russian naval presence and conflicts with Azerbaijan, the Iranian State is now considering the transformation of existing ports into naval bases. Turkmenistan recently signed a contract with the Russian government to exchange gas rights for gunboats. According to a report in the Asian Times, “In March 2002 Washington announced it would soon provide military aid to build its [Azerbaijan navy]—to protect its claims to a section of the Caspian Sea also claimed by Iran.” Iran has consistently opposed the BTC pipeline project and Azerbaijan’s regional ambitions to become a strategic energy transportation hub. Iran possesses the most efficient pipelines into the Persian Gulf and thus onto Asian markets. In the face of fierce US opposition, France’s Total, operating in Iran and the Caspian, is planning a feasibility study to transport oil from Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan via Iran into the Persian Gulf. AIOC firms have lobbied the US administration to allow it to pump 800,000 barrels per day through Iran’s National State Oil Company. It was ruled out after Iran was named as the main sponsor of terrorism in Bush’s “axis of evil” speech. The US government has used a combination of political and financial muscle to turn oil corporations away from using Russian and Iranian pipeline routes and to construct an alternative network. Iran and Azerbaijan clash regularly over border disputes. The most serious was an incident last July, when two Iranian airforce jets threatened to sink two Azeri ships hired by BP to explore the Araz-Aloo-Sharg oil field. The Iranian military accused the ships of entering Iranian waters. US officials told Iran it would not tolerate threats against Azerbaijan. Turkey’s General Staff Chief Kivrikogla went to Baku, followed by ten fighter jets. Azer press declared the deployment a “warning to Azeri enemies” and in one article declared that Turkey and Azerbaijan may be two countries, “but we are one nation”. Iran’s main political weapon is to disrupt any agreement on the division of the Caspian Sea Basin. The Iranian government is demanding that Caspian Sea wealth be equally distributed between all countries with a Caspian coastline. Disagreements between Russia and Iran and Azerbaijan are frustrating the development of Caspian energy resources. Brenda Schaffer of the Caspian Studies Program at Harvard University explained, “The main problem with Iran is that, for them, the Caspian isn’t about two more percentage [points] this way or two more percentage [points] that way. It’s basically about obstructing the flow of Caspian oil in order to keep Azerbaijan in a weak position.” The Iranian bourgeoisie fear the possible outcome on Iran’s internal political situation if Azerbaijan becomes one of the major regional hubs for oil and gas production and transportation. Approximately 10 million Azeris live in Iran—more than in Azerbaijan. The Iranian regime believes that separatist forces in the Azeri community may demand areas of Iran where they predominate break off and develop relations with Azerbaijan. Recent US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on internal Iranian politics indicate that the Bush administration is not only considering a direct military assault on Iran, but also using Azeri political forces to destabilise, weaken and break-up the Iranian State. Schaffer also adds a crucial point: “As an OPEC producer, they are very concerned with the development of non-OPEC oil sources, which ruin the OPEC monopoly and thus its ability to manipulate prices and use oil in a political way.” The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline Company will have a significant impact upon military, economic and diplomatic relations in the Caspian Region. All five nations surrounding the Caspian Sea will dramatically increase naval capacity, financed by the major powers. The Eurasian Energy Corridor opens up a new high-tech artery of the global economy, but under imperialist control it marks a major step towards military conflict in Central Asia.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Huh? I'm surprised the Georgian army seems to have folded like a two-dollar suit. The Chechens pinned down a far larger force than this for YEARS.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
I'm still likely to think that left alone without NATO/EU interference, the kind of which the Bush administration has been pursuing, Russia would be content to form its own hegemony and be content with the trade wars. What I've heard from people coming out of the Eastern bloc is that the common folks don't like Bush's involvement, either.
No I don't think Russia wants to grab territory. What for? the separatists in the area like hanging with Russia naturally - why mess that up with force and occupation? Russia will let them have their independence after all this mess is over with Georgia. I think Russia will withdraw from Georgia in a few days. Right now it's like a cat playing with a mouse before the big kill. The cat is not hungry so it won't eat the mouse, it will just kill it. a. Russia wants to smash Georgia into teeny tiny little pieces so it takes years to recover and so even after recovery Georgia never ever gets into Russia's face again. b. And also Russia wants to use Georgia as an object lesson to the DC/Tel Aviv chickenhawk goon squad, who have been using Georgia as a surrogate to cause mischief in Russia's neighborhood and to take away oil $ from Russia's coffers with a rival pipeline. Lesson to be learned is this: don't mess with The Bear's neighborhood ie nations that share borders with Russia or with The Bear's friends ( read Iran). I'll bet Iran is beside itself with joy this weekend seeing how Russia is mauling Georgia after Georgia's idiotic attack on S. Ossetia.
It's about petroleum and NATO. People mean nothing to all these bast*rds.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Sam Houston: Huh? I'm surprised the Georgian army seems to have folded like a two-dollar suit. The Chechens pinned down a far larger force than this for YEARS. Keep in mind that this is an article in the Financial Times - read London/Tel Aviv/DC junta supporter so there's lots of weeping and beating of the breast over wee little Georgia and its oh-so brave military, which btw, was trained by Israel. Georgia should have paid closer attention to how its military mentor advisor, Israel, got its mighty IDF butt whipped by a ragtag bunch of scruffy Hezbollah militants 2 summers ago before it signed the contract to have Israel train its military.
Well, duh, thank you Captain Obvious. My point was that Medvedev is pulling out all the stops with Georgia and is even going to get the President of Georgia up on charges of war crimes, genocide.
There's also the possibility that this outcome was calculated into the equation for other reasons. That seems very possible all things considered. The Zionist powers, U.S., Israel, France, etc. could very well be behind Georgia's stupid aggression against Russia. There's is also civil unrest in Western China which has claimed the lives of several Chinese soldiers. These incursions may provide cover for nuking Iran. Time will tell.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
My point was that Medvedev is pulling out all the stops with Georgia and is even going to get the President of Georgia up on charges of war crimes, genocide. Sometimes I wonder what is obvious to you and what isn't. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Indeed. And not all that much will be required me thinks. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
See also: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Caspian/Background.html for a map of the Caspian sea/Black sea region.
Uh, thanks for your interest, but frankly I think you need to be concerned about your own comprehension skills. Postscript: if you think that you can get away with making annoying empty remarks by adding ;-) at the end of your statements, I've got news for you - you are wrong.
Uh, thanks for your interest, but frankly I think you need to be concerned about your own comprehension skills. Postscript: if you think that you can get away with making annoying empty remarks by adding ;-) at the end of your statements, I've got news for you - you are wrong. I thought I was clear that I don't care much for you. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I don't think the issue is oil. That contradicts the publicly stated reasons for the Russian attack, if they are true. Also, we've been hearing about Ossetia for a while now, starting back during the Rose revolution. The issue was what would happen to the Russian peoples in Ossetia, as I recall.
Thanks, your remarks are noted. I'll wear them as a badge of honor.
Thanks, your remarks are noted. I'll wear them as a badge of honor. Glad you understand. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
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#2. To: Rotara (#0)
God help us all.
#3. To: Cynicom (#1)
(Edited)
Painting Russia as a "hero" or "nice guy" in this Georgia thing is without merit.
#4. To: Cynicom (#1)
Painting Russia as a "hero" or "nice guy" in this Georgia thing is without merit.
#5. To: Cynicom (#1)
Painting Russia as a "hero" or "nice guy" in this Georgia thing is without merit.
#6. To: Cynicom, scrapper2 (#1)
Russia never does anything not in their self interest.
#7. To: lodwick (#2)
God help us all.
#8. To: Rotara (#5)
Georgia is now going to be history.
#9. To: scrapper2 (#3)
Stupid is as stupid does.
#10. To: Rotara (#5)
There are no 'good guys' in all this.
#11. To: buckeye (#8)
Not wanting to assume the worst, I see Russia confining its hegemony to Ossetia, based on what I'm seeing.
#12. To: buckeye (#6)
There seems to be a strong undercurrent against the west's banking practices and Zionism in Russian politics.
#13. To: Cynicom (#10)
Russia has a long history of land grabbing.
#14. To: Cynicom (#1)
Painting Russia as a "hero" or "nice guy" in this Georgia thing is without merit.
#15. To: Rotara (#13)
They're not alone either.
#16. To: Rotara (#11)
They're destroying the country. Their infrastructure, including oil pipelines, etc.
#17. To: Cynicom (#12)
The words "seems" is an active verb.
#18. To: scrapper2 (#14)
How fast we forget..
#19. To: Cynicom (#18)
#20. To: Cynicom (#15)
They may not be alone but anyone that looks at a map can see they are the winner by ten lengths.
#21. To: buckeye (#16)
#22. To: Rotara (#21)
#23. To: buckeye (#17)
You have grave doubts, I see.
#24. To: buckeye (#19)
Call me naive, but I would like to forgive and forget the Cold War as something pushed on both sides by its real sponsors.
#25. To: buckeye (#22)
How do you suggest that this benefits the Russians, then? The pipeline doesn't go through Ossetia, so you're going to claim they'll retake all of Georgia to include the portions through which this pipeline must run? (I don't know its path geographically.)
Caspian Basin oil pipeline company founded
By Paul Stuart
30 August 2002
#26. To: scrapper2 (#3)
The tiny Georgian army that all weekend has faced a far superior force of Russians has surprised its foes with its tenacity and skill.
#27. To: Cynicom (#23)
#28. To: Rotara (#11)
(Edited)
Russia is going to take control of a whole bunch they didn't have control over before this current clash.
#29. To: scrapper2 (#28)
#30. To: Sam Houston (#26)
article: The tiny Georgian army that all weekend has faced a far superior force of Russians has surprised its foes with its tenacity and skill.
#31. To: Rotara (#29)
It's about petroleum and NATO. People mean nothing to all these bast*rds.
#32. To: Rotara (#9)
Stupid is as stupid does. How could Georgia not have known the outcome due to Russian air supremacy? Did they think Russia wouldn't come across? Did they think NATO/NAU/EU/Israel would come to the rescue with air power?
#33. To: scrapper2 (#31)
Well, duh, thank you Captain Obvious.
#34. To: Zoroaster (#32)
Time will tell.
#35. To: Rotara (#25)
(Edited)
Caspian Basin oil pipeline company founded
#36. To: Rotara (#33)
Sometimes I wonder what is obvious to you and what isn't. ;-)
#37. To: scrapper2 (#36)
(Edited)
Sometimes I wonder what is obvious to you and what isn't. ;-)
#38. To: scrapper2, Rotara (#36)
#39. To: Rotara (#37)
I thought I was clear that I don't care much for you. ;-)
#40. To: scrapper2 (#39)
I thought I was clear that I don't care much for you. ;-)
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