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War, War, War
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Title: Loathing mounts as Russia reveals iron fist
Source: Financial Times
URL Source: http://tinyurl.com/63dzak
Published: Aug 10, 2008
Author: Charles Clover
Post Date: 2008-08-10 18:46:13 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 785
Comments: 62

Published: August 10 2008 18:26 | Last updated: August 10 2008 18:26

The people of Tirdzsuzi, a settlement on a picturesque rural road, remember how things used to be with their neighbours in the town of Tskhinvali, 20km away.

Despite the fact that Tirdzsuzi is made up of ethnic Georgians, while Tskhinvali is composed largely of ethnic Ossetians, “this never used to bother anyone”, says Mabuku Sakulachvili, an elderly farmer. “We used to trade with them, we used to marry each other. There were never any problems.”

As he speaks an explosion a few kilometres away is a reminder that the town is just 6km from the front line. Russian troops were advancing through the South Ossetian breakaway region towards the settlement on Sunday, after capturing Tskhinvali from Georgian troops after days of fighting.

“Its those tanks,” says Mr Sakulachvili, waving his hand to indicate five Georgian T-72 tanks hidden – badly – in foliage. “The Russian jets must have found them.”

All along this road the occasional antennae sticking out of a tree is the only sign of the Georgian army deployed along the likely route of a Russian advance. With camouflage as their only defence, they are constant prey for Russian fighter aircraft darting through the skies, bombing almost with impunity. 

Georgia’s air force lies in ruins, largely destroyed on runways within the first hours of the war.

Mr Sakulachvili’s son, Irakli, is in one of the units camped out on the road, a gangly youth wearing US-issue desert camouflage that he got during a seven-month stint with coalition troops in Iraq. He announces he cannot talk to reporters, and his comrades do the same.

The tiny Georgian army that all weekend has faced a far superior force of Russians has surprised its foes with its tenacity and skill. But its tiny core of a thousand or so fierce and professional fighters, trained by US and Israeli advisers, has been all but overwhelmed by the air power the Russians have brought to bear.

There is little to back up this professional force, which withdrew from their positions on Sunday in what was described by the government as a “tactical relocation”. The bulk of the forces on Sunday that lay along the road from Tskhinvali were conscripts and national guardsmen with a week of military training. Some were without uniforms and there was a desperate lack of vehicles: city buses and civilian cars were pressed into ­service.

In the regional centre of Gori, south of Tirdzsuzi and 30km from Tskhinvali, the situation is dire. Most residents left the city after Russian jets bombed the town on Saturday morning, hitting an army base but also three apartment buildings nearby. The bombs blasted through the buildings, hurling flaming bodies into the streets, residents say.

Two hospitals in the town are full of injured from the front, and sobbing mothers and wives wait for news of their loved ones. Reservists who a few days ago were bank tellers or janitors mill around gloomily, waiting for orders. 

A unit of Georgian commandos, wearing bandanas and driving sleek four-wheel drives, show footage captured on a mobile phone of the wreckage of a Russian Tu-22 fighter bomber. The pilot of the aircraft, who survived, was shown on television soon afterwards.

Georgians are still in a state of shock and unsure why the conflict started. Most refuse to blame their president, Mikheil Saakashvili, for launching an offensive against the South Ossetian enclave on Thursday night, seemingly miscalculating that the Russian army would not intervene – or, if it did, that international pressure would force a quick ceasefire.

“He didn’t have a choice. He had to act as he did,” says Nina Rusadze, a press officer for the Georgian military.  

Most back the Georgian government, saying their living standards have improved under Mr Saakashvili and that he deserves some credit for “making Georgia a normal country”.

The issue of Ossetian sovereignty is far from the thoughts of most Georgians, who do not seem to share the government’s preoccupation with it.

Mr Sakulachvili scratches his head and remembers fondly friendships with his Ossetian neighbours in Tskhinvali, but says things started to change after the fall of the Soviet Union and the brief civil war that the enclave fought to gain de facto independence from Georgia in 1991-92.

But even after that there was no hostility with his friends in Tskhinvali, he says. “The Ossetians have nothing to do with this,” he believes. “Its just the ­Russians.”

COUNTDOWN TO CONFLICT

July 4 2008 South Ossetia orders “general mobilisation” of forces against Georgia after two people killed in shelling. Moscow accuses Tbilisi of “act of aggression”.

July 9 Russia admits its aircraft have flown over South Ossetia to avoid “bloodshed”.

August 1 Six killed in shoot-out in South Ossetia, which says Georgian forces were first to shoot. Georgia blames separatists.

August 3 Hundreds flee South Ossetia as battles continue between the separatists and Georgia. Russia warns that South Ossetia is close to “large-scale conflict”.

August 6 Moscow accuses Georgia of sending warplanes into South Ossetia, a charge Tbilisi denies. Russia and the US urge a halt to the violence.

August 7 Just hours after Mikhail Saakashvili, Georgia’s president, says he is offering a ceasefire
to the breakaway region, fresh fighting erupts. Russia sends in troops overnight.

August 8 Tbilisi warns that Russia and Georgia are on the brink of war after Russian tanks and troops enter South Ossetia. Fierce fighting for control of the regional capital breaks out. Georgia claims Russia has bombed targets outside the South Ossetian conflict zone, including the Georgian port of Poti.

August 9 Tbilisi calls for a ceasefire after Moscow ramps up a military offensive. Russian officials say at least 2,000 civilians have died in the regional capital alone.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 62.

#1. To: Rotara (#0)

Painting Russia as a "hero" or "nice guy" in this Georgia thing is without merit.

Russia never does anything not in their self interest.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-10   18:52:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Cynicom (#1)

Painting Russia as a "hero" or "nice guy" in this Georgia thing is without merit.

Russia never does anything not in their self interest.

There are no 'good guys' in all this. None. Russia stirred the pot inside Georgia's (breakaway provinces) territory just as much as Georgia did. Georgia is now going to be history. Unless the AmeriKan/NAU/EU/NATO/Israelis come to the rescue. And I can't see how that happens without Turkey's involvement. Of course Russia and China have treaties together in place too.

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   19:01:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Rotara (#5)

Georgia is now going to be history.

Not wanting to assume the worst, I see Russia confining its hegemony to Ossetia, based on what I'm seeing.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-10   19:03:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: buckeye (#8)

Not wanting to assume the worst, I see Russia confining its hegemony to Ossetia, based on what I'm seeing.

They're bombing deep into Georgia.

They're destroying the country. Their infrastructure, including oil pipelines, etc.

Russia is going to take control of a whole bunch they didn't have control over before this current clash.

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   19:06:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Rotara (#11) (Edited)

Russia is going to take control of a whole bunch they didn't have control over before this current clash.

No I don't think Russia wants to grab territory. What for? the separatists in the area like hanging with Russia naturally - why mess that up with force and occupation? Russia will let them have their independence after all this mess is over with Georgia.

I think Russia will withdraw from Georgia in a few days. Right now it's like a cat playing with a mouse before the big kill. The cat is not hungry so it won't eat the mouse, it will just kill it.

a. Russia wants to smash Georgia into teeny tiny little pieces so it takes years to recover and so even after recovery Georgia never ever gets into Russia's face again.

b. And also Russia wants to use Georgia as an object lesson to the DC/Tel Aviv chickenhawk goon squad, who have been using Georgia as a surrogate to cause mischief in Russia's neighborhood and to take away oil $ from Russia's coffers with a rival pipeline. Lesson to be learned is this: don't mess with The Bear's neighborhood ie nations that share borders with Russia or with The Bear's friends ( read Iran). I'll bet Iran is beside itself with joy this weekend seeing how Russia is mauling Georgia after Georgia's idiotic attack on S. Ossetia.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-10   19:25:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: scrapper2 (#28)

It's about petroleum and NATO. People mean nothing to all these bast*rds.

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   19:29:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Rotara (#29)

It's about petroleum and NATO. People mean nothing to all these bast*rds.

Well, duh, thank you Captain Obvious.

My point was that Medvedev is pulling out all the stops with Georgia and is even going to get the President of Georgia up on charges of war crimes, genocide.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-10   19:35:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: scrapper2 (#31)

Well, duh, thank you Captain Obvious.

My point was that Medvedev is pulling out all the stops with Georgia and is even going to get the President of Georgia up on charges of war crimes, genocide.

Sometimes I wonder what is obvious to you and what isn't. ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   19:47:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Rotara (#33)

Sometimes I wonder what is obvious to you and what isn't. ;-)

Uh, thanks for your interest, but frankly I think you need to be concerned about your own comprehension skills.

Postscript: if you think that you can get away with making annoying empty remarks by adding ;-) at the end of your statements, I've got news for you - you are wrong.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-10   19:58:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: scrapper2 (#36) (Edited)

Sometimes I wonder what is obvious to you and what isn't. ;-)

Uh, thanks for your interest, but frankly I think you need to be concerned about your own comprehension skills.

Postscript: if you think that you can get away with making annoying empty remarks by adding ;-) at the end of your statements, I've got news for you - you are wrong.

I thought I was clear that I don't care much for you. ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   20:10:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Rotara (#37)

I thought I was clear that I don't care much for you. ;-)

Thanks, your remarks are noted. I'll wear them as a badge of honor.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-10   20:18:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: scrapper2 (#39)

I thought I was clear that I don't care much for you. ;-)

Thanks, your remarks are noted. I'll wear them as a badge of honor.

Glad you understand. ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   20:25:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Rotara (#40)

I remember thinking that this could happen back when we were hearing about the Rose revolution. There are other routes for the pipeline, and it doesn't make sense to do something like this just for a temporary price gain. The Georgians did something goofy here, or someone made it look like they did.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-10   20:27:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: buckeye (#41)

The Georgians did something goofy here, or someone made it look like they did.

The obvious objectives (Russia staving off NATO and Georgia keeping ALL of their oil pipeline $$) were never attainable imo.

So what does this episode distract us from? Armada floating towards Iran? No.

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   20:29:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Rotara (#42)

I'm working with the hypothesis that rogue elements did what the Russians say happened.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-10   20:32:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: buckeye (#43)

I'm working with the hypothesis that rogue elements did what the Russians say happened.

If Georgia was indeed the instigator, then NATO+ knew it was going down.

They had to have known the outcome prior to starting.

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   20:36:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Rotara (#46)

Not necessarily. Rogue (militarist) elements within the Georgian society could be responsible. The President really looked like a deer in the headlights.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-10   20:37:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: buckeye (#47)

The President really looked like a deer in the headlights.

If the rogues didn't set him up, (if indeed his demeanor indicates surprise), someone did. ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   20:39:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Rotara (#50)

If I had been him, I would have been far more concerned about mending fences and knowing who was doing what.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-10   20:40:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: buckeye (#51)

American witnesses say Georgian warplanes bombed S. O.

Does that sound 'rogue' to you?

Coordinated ground/air attacks?

I don't see rogue on this at all.

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-10   20:57:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Rotara, tom007, scrapper2 (#54)

June 2007 - South Ossetian separatists say Georgia attacked Tskhinvali with mortar and sniper fire. Tbilisi denies this.

October 2007 - Talks hosted by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe between Georgia and South Ossetia break down.

March 2008 - South Ossetia asks the world to recognize its independence from Georgia following the West's support for Kosovo's secession from Serbia.

March 2008 - Georgia's bid to join NATO, though unsuccessful, prompts Russia's parliament to urge the Kremlin to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

April 2008 - South Ossetia rejects a Georgian power-sharing deal, insists on full independence.

August 2008 - Georgian forces attack South Ossetia's capital Tskhinvali to re-take the breakaway region. Russia says its troops were responding to the assault and Georgia's Saakashvili says the two countries were at war.

-- Georgian forces pull out after three days of fighting. Russia says its troops control most of Tskhinvali.

-- Russia bombs a military airfield outside Tbilisi.

-- Russia says that the death toll in fighting stands at 2,000. Georgia said on Friday that it had lost up to 300 people killed, mainly civilians.

www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSHO05105720080810

This looks like a reasonable, high level view of what happened.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-10   21:07:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: buckeye (#58)

August 2008 - Georgian forces attack South Ossetia's capital Tskhinvali to re-take the breakaway region. Russia says its troops were responding to the assault and Georgia's Saakashvili says the two countries were at war.

What hokum reuters spouts by using the phrase "to re-take the break away region." B.S.

S. Osettia announced its state's independent status from the Soviet Union 1 year BEFORE Georgia announces its independence. So S. Osettia was an independent nation-state before Georgia was one. Then Georgia got all nasty and fought a war with S. Osettia, which Georgia lost in 1992. And S. Osettia has functioned as an independent republic since that date until 1 week ago - so 16 years later, Georgia thinks S. Osettia is still theirs? Come on, reuters, wise up and do some research.

Also if you go to Debka's site it describes that Israeli military were with the Georgians in the aggressive attack on S. Osettia's capital city. S. Osettia doesn't even have much of a Georgian population - 2/3 of its population are Russians. S. Osettia uses Russian currency. S. Osettia citizens travel on Russian passports. Does that sound like a "break-away Georgian region?" Puhlease...

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-10   21:15:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: scrapper2 (#60)

Does that sound like a "break-away Georgian region?" Puhlease...

Omission of intent, or omission due to brevity or ignorance? I didn't know about the earlier declaration, but the spirit of 1776 in me wishes the Ossetians well in their endeavors to be free, and remain alive while doing so.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-10   23:30:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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