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Title: Race question cast doubt on Presidental polls
Source: YAHOO
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080812 ... t=AlsCDV1qyIF5eDBiHiqw_sCs0NUE
Published: Aug 12, 2008
Author: Jesse Washington
Post Date: 2008-08-12 14:18:16 by Zoroaster
Keywords: None
Views: 283
Comments: 24

Race questions cast doubt on presidential polls By JESSE WASHINGTON, AP National Writer 4 minutes ago

The year was 1984, and the state was Iowa. A white man who had just voted walked out of his precinct caucus and saw the Rev. Jesse Jackson standing outside.

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"I did all I could," the man told Jackson ruefully, "but I just couldn't bring myself to pull the lever and vote for you."

L. Douglas Wilder laughs as he relates the story Jackson once told him, the sting eased by time and Wilder's vantage point as the nation's first elected black governor.

Now it's a quarter of a century later, and the man everyone's talking about is Barack Obama, the Illinois senator holding a slim lead in many polls. But can the polls be trusted? A central question about race and politics hasn't changed since 1984: Do white people lie — to pollsters or even to themselves — about their willingness to vote for black candidates?

In the not-so-distant past, the consensus was a clear yes. Today, however, there is widespread disagreement about whether Obama is subject to the predicament known as the Wilder or Bradley Effect — whether in the privacy of the voting booth, white people will actually pull the lever for the first black man to come within shouting distance of the presidency.

Given that surveys can have trouble uncovering the truth about many things besides race, plus the massive technological, demographic and cultural changes in play, this question is contributing to an almost unprecedented air of uncertainty surrounding this year's polls.

In 1989, Wilder polled as many as 15 points ahead in the days before the election for Virginia governor, but squeaked into office by a minuscule 6,700 votes. David Dinkins had a similar experience that year, when he became New York City's first black mayor. And the phenomenon was first noted in 1982, when Tom Bradley endured a stunning defeat in the California governor's race after exit polls indicated he was the winner.

The reason for these disparities? A significant amount of white people did not admit that race played a role in their voting decision, pollsters and academics say. Another factor: When the person asking the questions was black, respondents were more likely to say they favored the black candidate.

In the recent Democratic primary, exit polls in 28 states overstated Obama's actual share of the final vote.

Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center, doesn't think people are lying to pollsters today about their support for Obama, "because I don't think there's a lot of stigma in saying you're voting for John McCain." Kohut said it's not like polls are asking, "Do you want to vote for the white guy or the black guy?"

But he did see potential for error based on the people who decline to participate in polls, whom he describes as largely lower-income whites more likely than the population at large to have racially intolerant views.

"The real frailty of our polls is that we get very high refusal rates, and we survive because the people who we interview are like the people who we don't interview on most things," Kohut said. "(Racism) is not one of them."

So are current polls accurate? "I don't know," Kohut said, "and to be honest with you, this is something every pollster I know is concerned about."

Wilder, now the mayor of Richmond, Va., said his internal polls during the governor's race showed it to be much closer than most people thought. "It was clear that people were having the first opportunity to vote for an African-American, and there was uncertainty," he said. "You know, 'Is he going to be fair, is he just going to look out for his own people. And who are his own people?' I think we've come a great distance from that. I've seen the progress."

So is Wilder ready to bury the Wilder Effect?

"No, I won't say that," he said with a laugh. "I won't go that far."

Daniel J. Hopkins will. The Harvard University postdoctoral fellow examined data from 133 gubernatorial and Senate elections from 1986 to 2006 and concluded that the effect vanished in the early 1990s as racially divisive issues such as crime and welfare reform receded from the national stage.

Hopkins said that race could play a larger role if it is injected into the campaign — as it often is in the waning days of close contests involving black candidates.

Days before the 2006 Senate election in Tennessee, with polls showing the race almost deadlocked, Republicans released an ad featuring a ditzy blond actress saying she met Harold Ford Jr. at the Playboy Club and asking the black Democrat to "call me." Ford lost.

In 1990's tight North Carolina Senate contest. Republican Jesse Helms was running about even with Democrat Harvey Gantt when he released an ad showing white hands crumpling a job rejection letter as a narrator mentioned racial quotas. Helms won.

Blacks, too, have sought to use race to their political advantage: In a congressional primary this month in Memphis, a black challenger tried to link the incumbent, Steve Cohen, to the Ku Klux Klan. Cohen won easily.

While Obama may face some of these historical hurdles, there are other, unprecedented factors at work: a presidential instead of statewide election, a spike in black voters and the increase in young voters who are more racially tolerant, watch more YouTube than television and eschew the land telephone lines used by most polls.

The racial pendulum may even have swung back the other way, said Anthony G. Greenwald, a psychology professor at the University of Washington, citing a "reverse Bradley Effect" during the Democratic primary: In states with larger black populations, such as Virginia, South Carolina, Mississippi and Georgia, Obama got more votes than polls predicted.

Like Kohut, Greenwald doesn't think people are deliberately lying in polls. But he does see potential for polling errors due to undecided white voters overstating their support for Obama or choosing McCain at the last minute, and the influence of "racial attitudes and stereotypes that people in many cases are not aware they have."

Many pollsters are trying to adjust their methods to account for these unprecedented variables. It's not easy, however, to solve these new problems in the heat of a tight presidential race.

"I don't think anyone is correct or incorrect, including me," Greenwald said of the current poll numbers. "To get to the heart of that, you'd have to do the kinds of research that haven't been done."

The Obama campaign declined to comment on how it conducts its polling. The McCain campaign did not respond to requests for comment.

Matthew Dowd, an ABC News commentator and former chief strategist for President Bush's 2004 campaign, expects the Wilder Effect to be a "small factor" in November. "I wouldn't want to be Barack Obama and up two points going into Election Day," he said.

"My guess is that (the Obama campaign) understands that and they know it's not enough to be ahead," Dowd said. "They have to be ahead by a lot."

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#1. To: Zoroaster, all (#0)

the predicament known as the Wilder or Bradley Effect

Oh my, the MSM is finally picking up on the Bradley effect? We discussed this on 4um months ago, and as I recall, some of his more Obama devoted knee pad squad became upset (well, they ignored it as they continue to ignore and filter unfavorable Obama info today). All this said, the poll #'s - if they are to be believed at all - are very favorable for McKooK.

Hillary and Ferraro were right; Obama is the nominee b/c he's black and Hillary would have been a stronger national candidate.

Viva diversity!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-12   14:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Jethro Tull (#1)

Hillary and Ferraro were right; Obama is the nominee b/c he's black and Hillary would have been a stronger national candidate.

Rendell also added that America was not ready for a black president.

With that in mind, Obama "carried" Iowa, however 60 per cent of the dem voters voted against him in voting for Edwards and Hillary.

That is four states in which I can recall that dem voters rejected Obama...Pa, WV, Ky and Iowa.

There are millions of white Americans that are silent but I suspect they will vote WHITE...I cannot see them joining the media craze created by MSM.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-12   14:38:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Cynicom (#2)

Despite being endorsed by both Senators Kennedy, Kerry and the Princess Caroline, Obama lost Massachusetts to Hillary!. Rather surprising.

Obama's star is fading fast, IMO. He's not making headway. His numbers are stagnant, within the margin of error in most states.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-12   14:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Cynicom (#2)

That Obama won the Iowa caucus is more evidence of the Bradley effect. The Rs do the caucus on hand written ballots, on the other hand the Ds have a much more complex process that simply boils down to taking headcounts. The more PCd among us (insert names here) simply are too frightened not vote for a black guy for fear of being called names.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-12   14:47:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: swarthyguy, Jethro tull (#3)

When I ask dem friends if they will vote for Obama, ALL have said..."I have not made up my mind yet"...

To me that translates to not voting, write in, leaving blank or at worst voting for McKooK.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-12   14:49:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Jethro Tull (#1)

I would MUCH rather McInsane incinerate the world in a thermonuclear war than have to listen to that screechy "fingernails on chalkboard" voice she has. Plus, we'd have had to endure Bill as co-president.

No, thanks. America is doomed anyhow. Might as well get it over with fast.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-08-12   14:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Zoroaster (#0)

Do white people lie — to pollsters or even to themselves — about their willingness to vote for black candidates?

Who cares? I sure the heck don't care which puppet wins.

Jews are white aren't they.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-12   14:53:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Cynicom (#5)

..."I have not made up my mind yet"...

His Berlin "citizen of the world" speech was his high water mark. The street activist is losing to an old, nasty, neocon. If these two bums represent our civic duty to vote, I hereby renounce my citizenship.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-12   14:54:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Cynicom (#5)

What do you fear most?

Events, my dear fellow, events.

PM Harold Wilson, UK, ~1965

As violent events and wars and jihad escalate around the world, (google world news lately?), voters will naturally gravitate towards a man rather than a manboy, the quintessial youthful persona that Obie projects will prove wanting.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-12   14:55:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Jethro Tull (#4)

At crunch time, the blacks and hand wringing whites will vote Obama, because he is black. That is of course non racist.

Bitter small town whites which populate most of the country will of course turn racist and vote against Obama because he is black, or brown, or half white, or whatever.

It will be interesting to see how many White people (non Americans) don their knee pads and vote black.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-12   14:55:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: RickyJ (#7)

Jews are white aren't they.

No.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-12   14:56:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

Berlin "citizen of the world" speech was his high water mark

And a big mistake, domestically speaking.

He was hitting "sixers" in Iraq and Afghanistan before the lovefest in Berlin and the Sarkozy welcome at the Presidential Palace.

He shoulda gone to Landstuhl, and come home. He goofed.

No pix of adoring Euros were needed.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-12   14:57:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Sam Houston (#6)

It's so out of our hands it hardly pays to work up a sweat wondering how this act ends. That we have a selection where all the candidates, and their back ups, are all blessed by AIPAC makes it a scam.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-12   14:58:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: swarthyguy (#12)

He was hitting "sixers" in Iraq and Afghanistan before the lovefest in Berlin and the Sarkozy welcome at the Presidential Palace.

Yep, I'm sure he'd love to rework that itinerary.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-12   15:00:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: swarthyguy (#12)

I read an interesting observation the other day that stated that Obummer is at a loss for words when he is taken outside of his scripted speech or remarks.

I have never listened to him and have no intention of doing so. His printed text is most telling.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-12   15:00:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom (#15)

a loss for words

His answer to the 7 year old asking why he's running was priceless. In a lame fashion.

I'm already sick of the voice.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-12   15:04:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: RickyJ (#7)

Jews are white aren't they.

They look white to me. But it's not an appraisal that is necessarily symmetric.

It is not uncommon for a white majority to view immigrant whites as "close enough" for acceptance, but for the immigrant to not feel the same way. Serbians in Australia have described a similar experience.

The trouble starts when the immigrant minority, through sheer numbers or skill, is perceived to have displaced or injured the majority in some way, intentionally or not.

Negro parents, as a rule, seem disposed not only to give larger liberty to their children than they ought, but they give absolute license in too many instances. In illustration of this fact, in cities particularly, children are allowed to go from their homes in the night-time and wander the streets amid their baleful associations until nine, ten, eleven o'clock and longer. And when they return home they do so unattended... This condition does not obtain alone among children of ignorant and poor parentage, but absence of good manners is also often found among children and youths who have had fair common and high school advantages. -- John Henry Smyth, 1902

Tauzero  posted on  2008-08-12   15:27:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: swarthyguy (#16) (Edited)

His answer to the 7 year old asking why he's running was priceless. In a lame fashion.

I'm already sick of the voice.

My personal favorite of an Obama off-teleprompter free style nose dive is when he talks about his idea for America becoming more fuel efficient and less addicted to foreign oil - Obbie's answer: Americans must inflate our car tires better and that will result in amazing fuel efficiency, just that little thingie and wow we'll put the Arabs out of business.

What a shallow empty-headed moron - and what's really irritating is that Obama is so arrogant ( at least Junior realized he was an idiot) when he talks off script, he really gets so puffed up with his self-perceived brilliance, all the while as he yaps himself into a corner, not having a clue that he's revealing his limited superficial knowledge about major political issues/concerns to Americans.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-12   16:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: RickyJ (#7) (Edited)

Jews are white aren't they.

Guess it depends what you mean by white. If you just mean Caucasian, then yes. If you mean people of European origin, then no.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-12   16:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: scrapper2 (#18)

Obama off-teleprompter free style nose dive is when he talks about his idea for America becoming more fuel efficient and less addicted to foreign oil - Obbie's answer: Americans must inflate our car tires better and that will result in amazing fuel efficiency, just that little thingie and wow we'll put the Arabs out of business

Priceless:

www.latimes.com/business/...- 2008aug08,1,244757.story

For a while, I thought that McCain would inherit the George W. Bush ignorance and stupidity mantle (he didn't know what Shias and Sunnis were), but Barack has him beat with his tire pressure remarks.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-12   16:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Zoroaster. the thread. voters and non-voters here (#0)

Race doesn't matter one whit.

Who Diebold wishes to be our next sock-puppet, is what matters.

Lod  posted on  2008-08-12   16:43:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#20)

His 'campaigned in all 57 states' remark should have eliminated him from the 'contest.'

Lod  posted on  2008-08-12   16:46:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

His Berlin "citizen of the world" speech was his high water mark

The question is which world? He does sort of look ETish to me.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-13   1:35:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: lodwick (#22) (Edited)

His 'campaigned in all 57 states' remark should have eliminated him from the 'contest.'

That remark was nothing compared to his 10,000 Kansans killed in one tornado last year. He said it wiped the town off the face of the map. I think about 12 were killed. The town of course is still there. He supposedly was suppose to say at least 10 were killed. How he gets 10 confused with 10,000 is anybody's guess. I think Obama just might have a severe deficiency in math. We don't need a President that is good in math, Jimmy Carter was a nuclear physicist but sucked at being President. But we do need one that understands the difference between 10 and 10,000 and 47 and 57. I don't think that is too much to ask for the "top" job in America.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-13   1:39:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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