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Title: Russia: 'Forget' Georgian territorial integrity
Source: Yahoo - AP
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia
Published: Aug 14, 2008
Author: CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA
Post Date: 2008-08-14 10:05:49 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 1777
Comments: 129

19 minutes ago

GORI, Georgia - Russia's foreign minister declared that the world "can forget about" Georgia's territorial integrity on Thursday and Georgian and Russian troops faced off at a checkpoint outside the key city of Gori, calling an already shaky cease-fire into question.

In Washington, an American official said Russia appears to be sabotaging airfields and other military infrastructure as its forces pull back. The U.S. official described eyewitnesses accounts for The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. The official said the Russian strategy seems like a deliberate attempt to cripple the already battered Georgian military.

The United States poured aid into the Georgian capital of Tbilisi on Thursday and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice launched emergency talks in France aimed at heading off a wider conflict.

The comments from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov appeared to come as a challenge to the United States, where President Bush has called for Russia to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia."

There were at least five explosions near Gori. It could not immediately be determined if the blasts were a renewal of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces, but they sounded similar to mortar shells and occurred after a tense confrontation between Russian and Georgian troops on the edge of the city.

The strategically located city is 15 miles south of South Ossetia, the Russian-backed separatist region where Russian and Georgian forces fought a five-day battle. Russian troops entered Gori on Wednesday, after the two sides signed the cease-fire that called for their forces to pull back to the positions they held before the fighting.

Georgia early Thursday said the Russians were leaving the city, but later alleged they were bringing in additional troops. In Washington, a Pentagon official said U.S. intelligence had assessed that the number of Russians in Gori was small — about 100 to 200 troops.

But the Russian presence in Gori, only 60 miles west of Tbilisi, was viewed as a demonstration of the vulnerability of the capital.

Russian deputy chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn blamed the Georgians for Russia's decision to stay.

"The position of the Russia side is not proceed beyond the peacekeeping zone. But we have to respond to provocations," he said.

Georgian government officials who went into the city for the possible handover left unexpectedly around midday, followed by a checkpoint confrontation outside Gori which ended when Russian tanks sped toward the area and Georgian police quickly retreated.

A Russian general in Gori had said Wednesday it would take at least two days to leave the city. Lavrov said troops were evacuating Georgian weapons and ammunition from a military base there.

Some Georgian police said irregular fighters from South Ossetia had refused to leave Gori, where a BBC reporter saw them looting and burning Wednesday night.

Two planned U.S. aid flights arrived in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi late Wednesday and Thursday, carrying cots, blankets and medicine for refugees displaced by the fighting. The shipment arrived on a C-17 military plane, an illustration of the close U.S.-Georgia military cooperation that has angered Russia.

Besides the hundreds killed since hostilities broke out, the United Nations estimates 100,000 Georgians have been uprooted; Russia says some 30,000 residents of South Ossetia fled into the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia.

Russian troops also appeared to be settling in elsewhere in Georgia outside the breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

"One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Lavrov told reporters.

The Georgian Foreign Ministry said Russian troops remained in Poti, a Black Sea port city with an oil terminal that is key to Georgia's fragile economic health.

An APTN crew in Poti saw one destroyed Georgian military boat, about 60 feet long, two Russian armored vehicles and two Russian transport trucks inside the port. They were blocked from moving closer by soldiers who identified themselves as Russian peacekeepers.

Earlier Thursday, on Poti's outskirts, the APTN crew followed a different convoy of Russian troops as they searched a forest for Georgian military equipment.

Another APTN camera crew saw Russian soldiers and military vehicles parked Thursday inside the Georgian government's elegant, heavily-gated residence in the western town of Zugdidi. Some of the soldiers wore blue peacekeeping helmets, others wore green camouflage helmets, all were heavily armed. The scene underlined how closely the soldiers Russia calls peacekeepers are allied with its military.

"The Russian troops are here. They are occupying," Ygor Gegenava, an elderly Zugdidi resident told the APTN crew. "We don't want them here. What we need is friendship and good relations with the Russian people."

Georgia, bordering the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.

A steady, dejected trickle of Georgian refugees fled the front line in overloaded cars, trucks and tractor-pulled wagons, heading to Tbilisi on the road from Gori. One Soviet-era car carried eight people, including a mother and a baby in the front seat. The open back door of a small blue van revealed at least a dozen people crowded inside.

The Russian General Prosecutor's office on Thursday said it has formally opened a genocide probe into Georgian treatment of South Ossetians. For its part, Georgia this week filed a suit against Russia in the International Court of Justice, alleging murder, rape and mass expulsions in both provinces.

More homes in deserted ethnic Georgian villages were apparently set ablaze Wednesday, sending clouds of smoke over the foothills north of Tskhinvali, capital of breakaway South Ossetia.

One Russian colonel, who refused to give his name, blamed the fires on looters.

Those with ethnic Georgian backgrounds who have stayed behind — like 70-year-old retired teacher Vinera Chebataryeva — seem increasingly unwelcome in South Ossetia.

As she stood sobbing in her wrecked apartment near the center of Tskhinvali, Chebataryeva said a skirmish between Ossetian soldiers and a Georgian tank had gouged the two gaping shell holes in her wall, bashing in her piano and destroying her furniture.

Janna Kuzayeva, an ethnic Ossetian neighbor, claimed the Georgian tank fired the shell at Chebataryeva's apartment.

"We know for sure her brother spied for Georgians," said Kuzayeva. "We let her stay here, and now she's blaming everything on us."

North of Tskhinvali, a number of former Georgian communities have been abandoned in the last few days. "There isn't a single Georgian left in those villages," said Robert Kochi, a 45-year-old South Ossetian.

But he had little sympathy for his former Georgian neighbors. "They wanted to physically uproot us all," he said. "What other definition is there for genocide?"

___

Associated Press writers Misha Dzhindzhikhavili in Tbilisi; Mansur Mirovalev in Tskhinvali, Georgia; Jim Heintz in Moscow; and Anne Gearan, Matthew Lee and Pauline Jelinek in Washington contributed to this report.


Poster Comment:

I'll bet Georgia is in NATO soon and built up like never before shortly thereafter.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 31.

#1. To: Rotara (#0)

I'll bet Georgia is in NATO soon and built up like never before shortly thereafter.

Odds or even money?

Bush and Pooty Putin are on the same team.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-14   10:10:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Cynicom (#1)

Odds or even money?

Bush and Pooty Putin are on the same team.

I'll give you 4:5 odds and only because they ARE on the same team. They both work for 'them'. LOL

They are going to escalate, there's no way that area just goes under Russian control - which means Ukraine and Georgia will be NATO and sooner than later.

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-14   10:19:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Rotara (#2)

which means Ukraine and Georgia will be NATO and sooner than later.

Ha...

One of the agreements of NATO is, aggression against one is aggression on all.

While Russia was in Europes backyard, that was a wise mutual agreement.

Now NATO is playing in the Bears sandbox and it aint smart no more.

No way in hell would France and the other wussies declare war on Russia if they invaded NATO Georgia or Ukraine. The US is the only backbone in NATO and Russia has just shown the world we are weak.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-14   10:26:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Cynicom (#4)

I think we've also demonstrated the truth of Bismarck's alleged phrase about the Balkans: "Not worth the life of one Pomeranian Grenadier." Or in more modern US parlance, not worth the life of an Appalachian Soldier with a GED. The point of it isn't just that Bismarck liked a pithy turn of phrase, but that some things just aren't worth worrying one's head over. This conflict applies in the same way, though the administration is trying their best to turn it into something larger.

It's one of the major issues with a mutual defense pact. Do we really want to ignite a world war over the status of South Ossetia? Or over the status of the eastern half of the Ukraine (that speaks Russian, is Russian Orthodox and generally wishes to be part of Russia)? There's been kind of a weird domino theory type of justification going on, that if aggression of any kind isn't met with larger agression anywhere on earth, then the whole world will attack one another. It's an absurd idea.

The other issue with mutual defense pacts was also demonstrated by Georgia and South Ossetia, too. When you've got a much larger nation pledging to come to your aid, you might undertake and do things that you wouldn't do otherwise, absent such assurances. The larger nation cedes its foreign policy making ability to the smaller one.

historian1944  posted on  2008-08-14   10:37:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: historian1944 (#6)

The larger nation cedes its foreign policy making ability to the smaller one.

Good point which brings me to this question: do you think Russia would have brought such massive force to bear on Georgia if Georgia had not murdered the 12 Russian peacekeepers?

I've thought that Russia in recent years has acted pragmatically mainly because its military was broken after the Soviet Union fell and also because the attention of the Russian gov't were focused on its economy and dealing with its oligarchs and Mafia. Defending wannabe empire regions did not seem in Russia's cards then.

Have things changed?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-14   13:35:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: scrapper2 (#10) (Edited)

No, S2, they acted pragmatically knowing full well that the Georgian Military Strategy of light, quick forces could be overwhelmed by the tanks and artillery, rockets and planes of Russia.

They simply demonstrated the modern military reality of the Caucuses, like Reagan did in Grenada and the Carib.

What has changed is that the US had no counterweight to what the Russians did.

Would we go nuclear over Georgia. The question answers itself.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   14:05:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: swarthyguy (#16)

No, S2, they acted pragmatically knowing full well that the Georgian Military Strategy of light, quick forces could be overwhelmed by the tanks and artillery, rockets and planes of Russia.

So you are saying regardless of the 12 Russian peacekeepers being plugged, Russia would have reacted with such a massive show of force, instead of merely pushing Georgia back to its own borders, for example?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-14   14:29:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: scrapper2 (#29)

NO, obvious the crossing of the peacekeeper line into Ossetia precipitated the crisis and gave Russia a cassus belli for the retaliation.

What is amazing is that the Georgians were unprepared for the retaliation. Why? Didn't they think the Russians would respond, or did they believe that if they quickly occupied S. Ossetia, facts on the ground would restrict the Russian response.

And why didn't US Intel spot the Russian Buildup. If they did, did we misjudge the possible response? And did we allow the Georgians to attack knowing about the buildup but not caring about the Russian response.

It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup.

Shades of April Glaspie's "an Arab border affair".

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   14:35:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 31.

#33. To: swarthyguy (#31)

It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup.

Impossible that we did not know.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-14 14:36:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: swarthyguy, Scrapper2 (#31)

It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup.

The Russians are much better Chess Players than the drooling imbecile in the White House and his arrogant psychotic "advisors".

I suspect that Russian Intelligence was well aware of what was going to happen and the Georgians walked in and got the Russians right where they wanted them.

Russian forces appear to have been deployed in a dispersed set-up which was rapidly pulled together, thus I suspect pre-planned, and the Georgians/USraelis walked right into the set-up. The poisoned pawn was sacrificed and retribution was swift.

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14 14:40:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: swarthyguy, Cynicom, Rupert_Pupkin (#31)

What is amazing is that the Georgians were unprepared for the retaliation. Why? Didn't they think the Russians would respond, or did they believe that if they quickly occupied S. Ossetia, facts on the ground would restrict the Russian response.

And why didn't US Intel spot the Russian Buildup. If they did, did we misjudge the possible response? And did we allow the Georgians to attack knowing about the buildup but not caring about the Russian response.

It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup.

I think the dumbkoff President of Georgia was used and abused by the DC/Tel Aviv junta to test the waters to find out how Russia might react if Iran were attacked. I think they got their answer but it may not be what they had hoped for.

Let's keep in mind that Russia has Russian citizen-technical advisers working in Iran and that Iran shares a border with Russia.

Postscript: we don't need no "intel" to know if the Bear's military was in the woods of Osettia. Russian military has been stationed in N. Osettia for years.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-14 15:25:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 31.

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