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World News
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Title: Russia: 'Forget' Georgian territorial integrity
Source: Yahoo - AP
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia
Published: Aug 14, 2008
Author: CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA
Post Date: 2008-08-14 10:05:49 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 1773
Comments: 129

19 minutes ago

GORI, Georgia - Russia's foreign minister declared that the world "can forget about" Georgia's territorial integrity on Thursday and Georgian and Russian troops faced off at a checkpoint outside the key city of Gori, calling an already shaky cease-fire into question.

In Washington, an American official said Russia appears to be sabotaging airfields and other military infrastructure as its forces pull back. The U.S. official described eyewitnesses accounts for The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. The official said the Russian strategy seems like a deliberate attempt to cripple the already battered Georgian military.

The United States poured aid into the Georgian capital of Tbilisi on Thursday and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice launched emergency talks in France aimed at heading off a wider conflict.

The comments from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov appeared to come as a challenge to the United States, where President Bush has called for Russia to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia."

There were at least five explosions near Gori. It could not immediately be determined if the blasts were a renewal of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces, but they sounded similar to mortar shells and occurred after a tense confrontation between Russian and Georgian troops on the edge of the city.

The strategically located city is 15 miles south of South Ossetia, the Russian-backed separatist region where Russian and Georgian forces fought a five-day battle. Russian troops entered Gori on Wednesday, after the two sides signed the cease-fire that called for their forces to pull back to the positions they held before the fighting.

Georgia early Thursday said the Russians were leaving the city, but later alleged they were bringing in additional troops. In Washington, a Pentagon official said U.S. intelligence had assessed that the number of Russians in Gori was small — about 100 to 200 troops.

But the Russian presence in Gori, only 60 miles west of Tbilisi, was viewed as a demonstration of the vulnerability of the capital.

Russian deputy chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn blamed the Georgians for Russia's decision to stay.

"The position of the Russia side is not proceed beyond the peacekeeping zone. But we have to respond to provocations," he said.

Georgian government officials who went into the city for the possible handover left unexpectedly around midday, followed by a checkpoint confrontation outside Gori which ended when Russian tanks sped toward the area and Georgian police quickly retreated.

A Russian general in Gori had said Wednesday it would take at least two days to leave the city. Lavrov said troops were evacuating Georgian weapons and ammunition from a military base there.

Some Georgian police said irregular fighters from South Ossetia had refused to leave Gori, where a BBC reporter saw them looting and burning Wednesday night.

Two planned U.S. aid flights arrived in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi late Wednesday and Thursday, carrying cots, blankets and medicine for refugees displaced by the fighting. The shipment arrived on a C-17 military plane, an illustration of the close U.S.-Georgia military cooperation that has angered Russia.

Besides the hundreds killed since hostilities broke out, the United Nations estimates 100,000 Georgians have been uprooted; Russia says some 30,000 residents of South Ossetia fled into the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia.

Russian troops also appeared to be settling in elsewhere in Georgia outside the breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

"One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Lavrov told reporters.

The Georgian Foreign Ministry said Russian troops remained in Poti, a Black Sea port city with an oil terminal that is key to Georgia's fragile economic health.

An APTN crew in Poti saw one destroyed Georgian military boat, about 60 feet long, two Russian armored vehicles and two Russian transport trucks inside the port. They were blocked from moving closer by soldiers who identified themselves as Russian peacekeepers.

Earlier Thursday, on Poti's outskirts, the APTN crew followed a different convoy of Russian troops as they searched a forest for Georgian military equipment.

Another APTN camera crew saw Russian soldiers and military vehicles parked Thursday inside the Georgian government's elegant, heavily-gated residence in the western town of Zugdidi. Some of the soldiers wore blue peacekeeping helmets, others wore green camouflage helmets, all were heavily armed. The scene underlined how closely the soldiers Russia calls peacekeepers are allied with its military.

"The Russian troops are here. They are occupying," Ygor Gegenava, an elderly Zugdidi resident told the APTN crew. "We don't want them here. What we need is friendship and good relations with the Russian people."

Georgia, bordering the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.

A steady, dejected trickle of Georgian refugees fled the front line in overloaded cars, trucks and tractor-pulled wagons, heading to Tbilisi on the road from Gori. One Soviet-era car carried eight people, including a mother and a baby in the front seat. The open back door of a small blue van revealed at least a dozen people crowded inside.

The Russian General Prosecutor's office on Thursday said it has formally opened a genocide probe into Georgian treatment of South Ossetians. For its part, Georgia this week filed a suit against Russia in the International Court of Justice, alleging murder, rape and mass expulsions in both provinces.

More homes in deserted ethnic Georgian villages were apparently set ablaze Wednesday, sending clouds of smoke over the foothills north of Tskhinvali, capital of breakaway South Ossetia.

One Russian colonel, who refused to give his name, blamed the fires on looters.

Those with ethnic Georgian backgrounds who have stayed behind — like 70-year-old retired teacher Vinera Chebataryeva — seem increasingly unwelcome in South Ossetia.

As she stood sobbing in her wrecked apartment near the center of Tskhinvali, Chebataryeva said a skirmish between Ossetian soldiers and a Georgian tank had gouged the two gaping shell holes in her wall, bashing in her piano and destroying her furniture.

Janna Kuzayeva, an ethnic Ossetian neighbor, claimed the Georgian tank fired the shell at Chebataryeva's apartment.

"We know for sure her brother spied for Georgians," said Kuzayeva. "We let her stay here, and now she's blaming everything on us."

North of Tskhinvali, a number of former Georgian communities have been abandoned in the last few days. "There isn't a single Georgian left in those villages," said Robert Kochi, a 45-year-old South Ossetian.

But he had little sympathy for his former Georgian neighbors. "They wanted to physically uproot us all," he said. "What other definition is there for genocide?"

___

Associated Press writers Misha Dzhindzhikhavili in Tbilisi; Mansur Mirovalev in Tskhinvali, Georgia; Jim Heintz in Moscow; and Anne Gearan, Matthew Lee and Pauline Jelinek in Washington contributed to this report.


Poster Comment:

I'll bet Georgia is in NATO soon and built up like never before shortly thereafter.

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#42. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#39)

Thanks for the link.

So, one thing we can conclude from that is that Little Green Faggots cares not one whit about the well being of the United States if it might dirty an Israeli fingernail.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   14:59:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Original_Intent (#40)
(Edited)

Nada, read the story below, we're simply wrapping it up with ribbons.

Georgia, you're fucked.

Rice gives Russian peacekeepers more powers By MATTHEW LEE – 1 hour ago

PARIS (AP) — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will ask Georgia to sign a cease-fire agreement with Russia that includes apparent concessions to Moscow but preserves Georgian borders, a U.S. official said Thursday.

The pact fleshes out a French-brokered agreement worked out this week, giving Russian peacekeepers the express right to patrol beyond two disputed border regions at the heart of the conflict.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the pact is not finalized, said there are important clarifications still to be made and the U.S. would support more powers for the Russian peacekeepers only if they were limited, well defined and temporary.

There were Russian peacekeepers in the two disputed regions before the fighting began, and those forces would remain. The difference now would be that the peacekeepers could venture beyond the regions if need be.

The official said Russia demanded the expanded mandate for its peacekeepers.

The truce plan was agreed to by both sides but it was not yet in full force, and it left some details vague.

Rice plans to discuss the pact Friday with the staunchly pro-American leader of Georgia. She is carrying documents for his signature, after which U.S. and French officials predict Russia will begin withdrawing its fighting forces in earnest.

French President Nicholas Sarkozy said the documents are "intended to consolidate the cease-fire."

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   15:00:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: swarthyguy, Cynicom, Rupert_Pupkin (#31)

What is amazing is that the Georgians were unprepared for the retaliation. Why? Didn't they think the Russians would respond, or did they believe that if they quickly occupied S. Ossetia, facts on the ground would restrict the Russian response.

And why didn't US Intel spot the Russian Buildup. If they did, did we misjudge the possible response? And did we allow the Georgians to attack knowing about the buildup but not caring about the Russian response.

It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup.

I think the dumbkoff President of Georgia was used and abused by the DC/Tel Aviv junta to test the waters to find out how Russia might react if Iran were attacked. I think they got their answer but it may not be what they had hoped for.

Let's keep in mind that Russia has Russian citizen-technical advisers working in Iran and that Iran shares a border with Russia.

Postscript: we don't need no "intel" to know if the Bear's military was in the woods of Osettia. Russian military has been stationed in N. Osettia for years.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-14   15:25:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: swarthyguy (#43)

Interesting data.

I would imagine it went more like this:

Rice: We expect you to withdraw.

Russia: Fuck You (in polite diplomatic doublespeak).

Rice: Blink, blink, blink. Well, uh, OK. (In diplomatic doublespeak.)

We'll see how events unfold over the next few days. I am hoping that they do back off from the precipice, but never underestimate Bush's stupidity or that of his handlers.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   15:27:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Original_Intent (#45)

Speaking of Rice, we didn't hear her useless yap flapping until recently. Was she on another shoe shopping trip over the weekend or something?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-14   15:32:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: scrapper2 (#46)

Speaking of Rice, we didn't hear her useless yap flapping until recently. Was she on another shoe shopping trip over the weekend or something?

I suspect that it is because she has become such an "empty shoe" that she gets used as a public face only when it serves some PsyOps purpose. Possibly "she's a strong black Woman" and how dare the Russians not say only nice things to a "Woman". Probably to create a psychological contrast subliminally.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   15:35:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Original_Intent, swarthyguy (#24)

Playing the Moral Equivalency game between Iraq and Georgia, are we?

Very predictable response from the anti-American Left, imho...MUD

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-08-14   15:58:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: FormerLurker (#13) (Edited)

"Russia simply defended its citizens in South Ossetia"

BWAHAHAHAHA!!

Is that what yer weekly version of Pravda is telling you, FL?! Methinks you are rather gullible...MUD

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-08-14   16:01:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Mudboy Slim (#48) (Edited)

Playing the Moral Equivalency game between Iraq and Georgia, are we?

Please explain how the US bombing, invasion, and occupation of Iraq is fundamentally different from Russia doing the same to Georgia. Iraq, like Georgia, is a sovereign nation, and it never attacked the United States.

I think I know your neocon argument ahead of time : EYE-RACKEES ARE TERRISTS...or "WE GOOD, THEY BAD," right?

Very predictable response from the anti-American Left, imho...MUD

Do you ever post anything that's not verbatim from Fox News or Rush Limbaugh? Hearing the same talking points and slogans over and over again gets tiresome.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   16:06:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Mudboy Slim, Original_Intent, swarthyguy (#48)

Playing the Moral Equivalency game between Iraq and Georgia, are we?

Very predictable response from the anti-American Left, imho...MUD

Pretty funny stuff, mudboy, but you need to use the sarcasm tag or some people, at first glance, might think you are being serious.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-14   16:07:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: scrapper2 (#51)

Maybe one day Mud will realize that Fox News is just the Bush administration's Pravda.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   16:08:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Mudboy Slim, swarthyguy, all (#48)

Playing the Moral Equivalency game between Iraq and Georgia, are we?

Actually NO. There is no real equivalence.

Georgia, acting as a U.S. Feral Goobermunt Cat's Paw, attacked Russian interests in a sneak attack and intentionally murdered civilians. The Russians responded repelling the attack and attacking primarily military forces of Georgia which was the agressor.

The U.S. attacked and devasted a country, killing over a million non-combatants, while littering the country with radioactive poison, under no threat or real provocation. Saddam offered to go into exile and the U.S. Feral Goobermunt acted to prevent it. The U.S. set up prisons which used foul torture and threats of torture against people randomly picked up in sweeps of Baghdad.

There is NO moral equivalence.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   16:12:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Original_Intent (#53) (Edited)

You should humor Mud.

I really want to hear some neocon bullshit spin about why it's morally right and just when the Bush bombs, invades, and occupies a sovereign nation, but bad when Putin (or anybody else, besides Israel) does the same thing. There won't be any real answer, just the typical Freepthink gobbledygook about "fighting Islamofasicst terror."

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   16:14:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Rupert_Pupkin, Mudboy Slim, MUDDOG (#52)

Maybe one day Mud will realize that Fox News is just the Bush administration's Pravda.

I get confuse-igated between the 2 muds we have on 4um.

So the slim one is a bot and the dog one is not? I do love dogs so I'll use that association to keep the muds straight in my mind.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-14   16:14:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: scrapper2 (#55) (Edited)

Right. Slim's our House Bot. I kind of like having him around.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   16:15:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: scrapper2 (#44)

Russian military has been stationed in N. Osettia for years.

Huge difference tho, between being stationed or moving and organizing into battle formations, whether overt or covert, waiting for the moment to merge and attack.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   16:43:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Mudboy Slim (#48)

Ah, the labels come out fast.

AntiAmerican Left. Clever. And original.

Irak? No, Kosovo, the dismemberment of Serbia by Clinton and Bush.

Chickens roosting. In Georgia.

What's the USA and Bush doing? Squat. Bupkis. Hollow words.

This time Poker lost to Chess.

Dasviidanya.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   16:45:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#54)

There won't be any real answer, just the typical Freepthink gobbledygook about "fighting Islamofasicst terror."

How about Georgia is our most reliable ally in the region (not to mention they sit on top of an oil pipe line that we envy)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-14   16:50:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#54) (Edited)

fighting Islamofasicst terror

Well we gotta be careful on that.

We might be striking up that 90's SaudiUS Alliance to spread the word of god via the koran to the notsofaithful of Caucasia.

Free Chechnya? Are we going to airlift Chechens from Pakistan to Chechnya and Dagestan and Ingushetia.

Well, worked against the Serbs.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   16:55:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#56)

"Slim's our House Bot. I kind of like having him around."

Awww, man, Mr. Pupkin, I think yer gonna make me cry...I didn't realize I was this place's only "Bot/Neocon"...LOL!! Now I feel bad fer not giving y'all more attention...must get kinda boring to point out how "Bush is the Anti- Christ" and have no one to point out that maybe--just maybe--it ain't true.

However, whenever you wanna discuss the Liberation of Iraq, I'm yer man...hell yeah, I supported it vociferously in the months leading up to the action and despite all the hard work and blood and treasure it cost us, I still think we struck a mighty blow against Islamofascism by luring Al Queda (and other like- minded radical Muslim zealots) into Iraq to be decimated by our far superior American forces.

I know, I know, read the polls, most Americans don't agree with my assessment at the present time, but I remain quite confident that historians will see that, yes, MUD is Right and y'all have been hoodwinked by the Vast LeftWing Media Whore'd!!

Regards...MUD

BTW...tell me the truth, there's gotta be some other folks around here who you try and dismiss as "Bushbots", ain't there?

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-08-14   18:17:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: swarthyguy (#58)

"Chickens roosting. In Georgia."

Whatever you say, Reverend Wright...MUD

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-08-14   18:18:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: scrapper2 (#55)

Don't mean to add to the confusion, but I'm not really all that Slim...MUD

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-08-14   18:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: swarthyguy (#60)

We might be striking up that 90's SaudiUS Alliance to spread the word of god via the koran to the notsofaithful of Caucasia.

Free Chechnya? Are we going to airlift Chechens from Pakistan to Chechnya and Dagestan and Ingushetia.

Well, worked against the Serbs.

All Muslims are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   18:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#54)

"fighting Islamofasicst terror"

Rupert, my friend, you either fight Islamofascist terror or else you surrender to Islamofascist terror.

Clinton's "Third Way" simply ignored it and we ended up with 9/11, so that's no longer a valid option, imho...MUD

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-08-14   18:22:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Mudboy Slim (#49)

Methinks you are rather gullible...MUD

Me thinks you are extremely drunk on neocon koolaid, and wish to "bury" those dirty (enemy du jour) because your masters tell you they are bad.

Who is surrounding who's country with military bases, and propping up dictatorships serving as puppet regimes in order to build even more bases hostile to that other country?

Who has attacked TWO nations without cause over the past five years and slaughtered MILLIONS of people?

Who is currently rattling their sabers at yet another third world country, trying to provoke them into war which might turn out to be the trigger for WWIII? Hell, your pals might not even wait for that country to react to the provocation, they might just launch massive attacks upon it just because their Israeli masters have ordered it.

Do you have children Mud? If you did, I'd bet you'd think a bit about what the consequences of such blatent insanity might be. In fact, you would want the truth, not what the talking heads say, but the REAL truth.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-08-14   18:25:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Jethro Tull (#59)

"Georgia is our most reliable ally in the region..."

That simply cannot be true...the Vast LeftWing Media Whore'd has spent the last 6-7 years telling us that Bush's America has no friends, no allies, and that we've earned nothing but 100% anti-American hatred. I find it hard to believe that we'll have any allies ever again, unless we empower the ObamaNation, of course...LOL!!

Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2008-08-14   18:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Mudboy Slim (#65)

That's why it is so commendable, that despite all the business ties between the Bushes and the BinLadins, Bush made it a point of nailing Osama.

The High Point of Bush's Presidency.

Gotta hand it to him, in this case, he shed his vaunted loyalty to do what's right for America.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   18:26:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Mudboy Slim (#65) (Edited)

When it comes to what's likely to harm me or mine "Islamofascist terror" and other MSM created bogey men are WAY down on my list. Right up there with my being killed by a meteor or eaten by a wolf, I'd say.

Find a politician who will do something about real threats to the USA, such as its transformation into a Third World country thanks to uncontrolled immigration, and I might actually give a damn. Oh, wait a minute. Your hero Bush and his pro-amnesty pals are part of that problem.

Bush is the Anti- Christ"

Not even close to anti-Christ. Just a run of the mill idiot who's in over his head.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   18:31:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#54)

You should humor Mud.

You're right I should let him put out the whole "Official Spin" before unloading. Unfortunately I didn't leave him a lot of wiggle room since everything I argued is easily verifiable. About the only thing he has left is to outright lie or pretend that facts are not facts. The usual NeoTrotskyCon avoidance and obscure tactics.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   18:33:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: swarthyguy (#68) (Edited)

That's why it is so commendable, that despite all the business ties between the Bushes and the BinLadins, Bush made it a point of nailing Osama.

The High Point of Bush's Presidency.

Gotta hand it to him, in this case, he shed his vaunted loyalty to do what's right for America.

He made it such a priority that his arm had to be twisted by the CIA and State Department before he'd even consider going into Afghanistan after bin Laden. The Bush administration's first priority from day one was to use 9/11 as an excuse to attack Iraq, knowing that the public didn't know the difference between Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, or Pakistan anyway.

Not to mention the fact that removing Saddam Hussein made it possible for Islamists to fluorish in Iraq.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   18:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Mudboy Slim (#65)

you either fight Islamofascist terror or else you surrender to Islamofascist terror

How do you know what happened on 9/11? Do you know what formed the basis for the "evidence" that 19 "islamofascists" hijacked the airplanes?

It was the cellphone conversation between Solicitor General Olson and his wife. Did you know that conversation never took place, and even the FBI states that?

Ted Olson's Report of Phone Calls from Barbara Olson on 9/11: Three Official Denials

References to official reports and mainstream news articles are provided, so don't try to dismiss the information just because it doesn't come directly from Hannity or Limburgh.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-08-14   18:35:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Mudboy Slim, Rupert_Pupkin, swarthyguy, all (#65)

Rupert, my friend, you either fight Islamofascist terror or else you surrender to Islamofascist terror.

We have a winner - obscure and avoid it is.

Wonderful use of meaningless PsyOps terms such as "Islamofascist" (you know the radical Islamists funded by the CIA) and "terror".

Cue in scary music: "Ooooooooooo-Oooooooo-- Ooooooooooooooooooooooooo".

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   18:38:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#71)

And the protection continues......WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS SCREAMING ABOUT THIS.

HA, they like Saudi cash as much as the Repubs.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, four princes and other Saudi entities are immune from a lawsuit filed by victims of the Sept. 11 attacks and their families alleging they gave material support to al Qaeda, a federal appeals court ruled on Thursday.

The ruling by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan upheld a 2006 ruling by U.S. District Judge Richard Casey dismissing a claim against Saudi Arabia, a Saudi charity, four princes and a Saudi banker of providing material support to al Qaeda before the Sept. 11 attacks.

The victims and their families argued that because the defendants gave money to Muslim charities that in turn gave money to al Qaeda, they should be held responsible for helping to finance the attacks.

The appeals court found that the defendants are protected under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act.

The court also noted that exceptions to the immunity rule do not apply because Saudi Arabia has not been designated a state sponsor of terrorism by the U.S. State Department.(!!!!!!!!!)

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   18:39:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Mudboy Slim (#67)

That simply cannot be true...the Vast LeftWing Media Whore'd has spent the last 6-7 years telling us that Bush's America has no friends, no allies, and that we've earned nothing but 100% anti-American hatred. I find it hard to believe that we'll have any allies ever again, unless we empower the ObamaNation, of course...LOL!!

Attaboy Mud! Sling that, errrr, sling those pieces of fecal matter into the air recirculating device. But next time get out of the way. Sigh!

Let's see the parroted PsyOps Tag Lines:

"Lib'rul Media" (which has not reported on Bush's lies or called them lies, and slavishly regurgitates the White House Talking Points). Yeah, liberrrrrrrrul media. Sheesh. What a schlimiel.

Sure, we've got allies and you can clearly count them on one hand: Britain, GEORGIA, and, ummm, errrr, Britain, GEORGIA, ... Halliburton, KBR, Dyncorp, Bechtel, Rotchilds, Rockefuckers, and the rest of the international slave trade and Drug Cartels.

Oh, please name all the Oh'Bummer supporters on this thread - and cite proof not just your wild assed smears.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   18:47:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Mudboy Slim (#62)

Whatever you say, Reverend Wright

You're so witty, you remind me of John Edwards.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   18:49:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Original_Intent (#75)

I think I'll enjoy dinner. And a couple beers. And a cigar before I dive into this thread! ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-14   18:52:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Original_Intent (#75) (Edited)

People like Mud are just like the Obamaphiles.

Disagree with a neocon, you're a "liberal Democrat."

Disagree with an Obamaphile, you're a "Bush supporter" or "McCain voter." Never occurs to them that someone can be against both carbon copy political parties.

Sure, we've got allies and you can clearly count them on one hand: Britain, GEORGIA, and, ummm, errrr, Britain, GEORGIA, ... Halliburton, KBR, Dyncorp, Bechtel, Rotchilds, Rockefuckers, and the rest of the international slave trade and Drug Cartels

You forgot Israel. Sure, their "alliance" costs us six billion a year (3 billion aid, 3 billion + interest free loans), it cost us 34 sailors in 1967, they never contribute a single soldier to any of our war efforts, and their agents, disguised as art students, partied when the twin towers fell on 9/11, but by golly, they're our allies!

Meanwhile, even the Brits are starting to have second thoughts about this Iraq business.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-14   18:52:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Rotara (#77)

before I dive into this thread! ;-)

Watch out for the mud. Regards.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-14   18:54:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Original_Intent (#75)

Sure, we've got allies and you can clearly count them on one hand: Britain, GEORGIA, and, ummm, errrr, Britain, GEORGIA, ... Halliburton, KBR, Dyncorp, Bechtel, Rotchilds, Rockefuckers, and the rest of the international slave trade and Drug Cartels

Well you forgot one there OI. You forgot to mention ISRAEL.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-08-14   19:06:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Rupert_Pupkin, a vast rightwing conspirator (#78)

Disagree with an Obamaphile, you're a "Bush supporter" or "McCain voter." Never occurs to them that someone can be against both carbon copy political parties.

and don't forget hillary

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-08-14   19:19:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Rotara (#77)

I think I'll enjoy dinner. And a couple beers. And a cigar before I dive into this thread! ;-)

Sounds like a plan - particularly the cigar. I had one of JR's "Flor De Baloney" this morning - not bad but a little mild for my taste which runs more to a full bodied smoke. I just made a nice cold pasta salad for later, am listening to Oscar Lopez on the Flamenco Guitar, and sweating like a pig at 101 and rising. Thankfully I'm half lizard and the heat really doesn't bother me that much.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-14   19:20:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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