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Title: Russia: 'Forget' Georgian territorial integrity
Source:
Yahoo - AP
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia
Published: Aug 14, 2008
Author: CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA
Post Date: 2008-08-14 10:05:49 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 1962
Comments: 129
19 minutes ago GORI, Georgia - Russia's foreign minister declared that the world "can forget about" Georgia's territorial integrity on Thursday and Georgian and Russian troops faced off at a checkpoint outside the key city of Gori, calling an already shaky cease-fire into question. In Washington, an American official said Russia appears to be sabotaging airfields and other military infrastructure as its forces pull back. The U.S. official described eyewitnesses accounts for The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. The official said the Russian strategy seems like a deliberate attempt to cripple the already battered Georgian military. The United States poured aid into the Georgian capital of Tbilisi on Thursday and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice launched emergency talks in France aimed at heading off a wider conflict. The comments from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov appeared to come as a challenge to the United States, where President Bush has called for Russia to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia." There were at least five explosions near Gori. It could not immediately be determined if the blasts were a renewal of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces, but they sounded similar to mortar shells and occurred after a tense confrontation between Russian and Georgian troops on the edge of the city. The strategically located city is 15 miles south of South Ossetia, the Russian-backed separatist region where Russian and Georgian forces fought a five-day battle. Russian troops entered Gori on Wednesday, after the two sides signed the cease-fire that called for their forces to pull back to the positions they held before the fighting. Georgia early Thursday said the Russians were leaving the city, but later alleged they were bringing in additional troops. In Washington, a Pentagon official said U.S. intelligence had assessed that the number of Russians in Gori was small — about 100 to 200 troops. But the Russian presence in Gori, only 60 miles west of Tbilisi, was viewed as a demonstration of the vulnerability of the capital. Russian deputy chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn blamed the Georgians for Russia's decision to stay. "The position of the Russia side is not proceed beyond the peacekeeping zone. But we have to respond to provocations," he said. Georgian government officials who went into the city for the possible handover left unexpectedly around midday, followed by a checkpoint confrontation outside Gori which ended when Russian tanks sped toward the area and Georgian police quickly retreated. A Russian general in Gori had said Wednesday it would take at least two days to leave the city. Lavrov said troops were evacuating Georgian weapons and ammunition from a military base there. Some Georgian police said irregular fighters from South Ossetia had refused to leave Gori, where a BBC reporter saw them looting and burning Wednesday night. Two planned U.S. aid flights arrived in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi late Wednesday and Thursday, carrying cots, blankets and medicine for refugees displaced by the fighting. The shipment arrived on a C-17 military plane, an illustration of the close U.S.-Georgia military cooperation that has angered Russia. Besides the hundreds killed since hostilities broke out, the United Nations estimates 100,000 Georgians have been uprooted; Russia says some 30,000 residents of South Ossetia fled into the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia. Russian troops also appeared to be settling in elsewhere in Georgia outside the breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. "One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Lavrov told reporters. The Georgian Foreign Ministry said Russian troops remained in Poti, a Black Sea port city with an oil terminal that is key to Georgia's fragile economic health. An APTN crew in Poti saw one destroyed Georgian military boat, about 60 feet long, two Russian armored vehicles and two Russian transport trucks inside the port. They were blocked from moving closer by soldiers who identified themselves as Russian peacekeepers. Earlier Thursday, on Poti's outskirts, the APTN crew followed a different convoy of Russian troops as they searched a forest for Georgian military equipment. Another APTN camera crew saw Russian soldiers and military vehicles parked Thursday inside the Georgian government's elegant, heavily-gated residence in the western town of Zugdidi. Some of the soldiers wore blue peacekeeping helmets, others wore green camouflage helmets, all were heavily armed. The scene underlined how closely the soldiers Russia calls peacekeepers are allied with its military. "The Russian troops are here. They are occupying," Ygor Gegenava, an elderly Zugdidi resident told the APTN crew. "We don't want them here. What we need is friendship and good relations with the Russian people." Georgia, bordering the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. A steady, dejected trickle of Georgian refugees fled the front line in overloaded cars, trucks and tractor-pulled wagons, heading to Tbilisi on the road from Gori. One Soviet-era car carried eight people, including a mother and a baby in the front seat. The open back door of a small blue van revealed at least a dozen people crowded inside. The Russian General Prosecutor's office on Thursday said it has formally opened a genocide probe into Georgian treatment of South Ossetians. For its part, Georgia this week filed a suit against Russia in the International Court of Justice, alleging murder, rape and mass expulsions in both provinces. More homes in deserted ethnic Georgian villages were apparently set ablaze Wednesday, sending clouds of smoke over the foothills north of Tskhinvali, capital of breakaway South Ossetia. One Russian colonel, who refused to give his name, blamed the fires on looters. Those with ethnic Georgian backgrounds who have stayed behind — like 70-year-old retired teacher Vinera Chebataryeva — seem increasingly unwelcome in South Ossetia. As she stood sobbing in her wrecked apartment near the center of Tskhinvali, Chebataryeva said a skirmish between Ossetian soldiers and a Georgian tank had gouged the two gaping shell holes in her wall, bashing in her piano and destroying her furniture. Janna Kuzayeva, an ethnic Ossetian neighbor, claimed the Georgian tank fired the shell at Chebataryeva's apartment. "We know for sure her brother spied for Georgians," said Kuzayeva. "We let her stay here, and now she's blaming everything on us." North of Tskhinvali, a number of former Georgian communities have been abandoned in the last few days. "There isn't a single Georgian left in those villages," said Robert Kochi, a 45-year-old South Ossetian. But he had little sympathy for his former Georgian neighbors. "They wanted to physically uproot us all," he said. "What other definition is there for genocide?" ___ Associated Press writers Misha Dzhindzhikhavili in Tbilisi; Mansur Mirovalev in Tskhinvali, Georgia; Jim Heintz in Moscow; and Anne Gearan, Matthew Lee and Pauline Jelinek in Washington contributed to this report.
Poster Comment: I'll bet Georgia is in NATO soon and built up like never before shortly thereafter.
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#1. To: Rotara (#0)
Odds or even money? Bush and Pooty Putin are on the same team.
Bush and Pooty Putin are on the same team. I'll give you 4:5 odds and only because they ARE on the same team. They both work for 'them'. LOL They are going to escalate, there's no way that area just goes under Russian control - which means Ukraine and Georgia will be NATO and sooner than later.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
They WERE on the same team, but the Crime Family has apparently reneged on the payments.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Ha... One of the agreements of NATO is, aggression against one is aggression on all. While Russia was in Europes backyard, that was a wise mutual agreement. Now NATO is playing in the Bears sandbox and it aint smart no more. No way in hell would France and the other wussies declare war on Russia if they invaded NATO Georgia or Ukraine. The US is the only backbone in NATO and Russia has just shown the world we are weak.
I think we've also demonstrated the truth of Bismarck's alleged phrase about the Balkans: "Not worth the life of one Pomeranian Grenadier." Or in more modern US parlance, not worth the life of an Appalachian Soldier with a GED. The point of it isn't just that Bismarck liked a pithy turn of phrase, but that some things just aren't worth worrying one's head over. This conflict applies in the same way, though the administration is trying their best to turn it into something larger. It's one of the major issues with a mutual defense pact. Do we really want to ignite a world war over the status of South Ossetia? Or over the status of the eastern half of the Ukraine (that speaks Russian, is Russian Orthodox and generally wishes to be part of Russia)? There's been kind of a weird domino theory type of justification going on, that if aggression of any kind isn't met with larger agression anywhere on earth, then the whole world will attack one another. It's an absurd idea. The other issue with mutual defense pacts was also demonstrated by Georgia and South Ossetia, too. When you've got a much larger nation pledging to come to your aid, you might undertake and do things that you wouldn't do otherwise, absent such assurances. The larger nation cedes its foreign policy making ability to the smaller one.
Rivers of blood were spilled out over land that, in normal times, not even the poorest Arab would have worried his head over." Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
The Russian Ruling Elite is STILL a major force fer EVIL on this Planet...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, The (substitute your country here) Ruling Elite is STILL a major force for EVIL on this Planet. Pot, meet kettle. This is why I don't "support the troops" of any ruling elite of any country. I "support the civilian noncombatants" who have done most of the dying in wars over the last 100 years. No one has ever bothered to equip them with "flak jackets" or "uparmored" their vehicles.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
bump your post
Good point which brings me to this question: do you think Russia would have brought such massive force to bear on Georgia if Georgia had not murdered the 12 Russian peacekeepers? I've thought that Russia in recent years has acted pragmatically mainly because its military was broken after the Soviet Union fell and also because the attention of the Russian gov't were focused on its economy and dealing with its oligarchs and Mafia. Defending wannabe empire regions did not seem in Russia's cards then. Have things changed?
Georgia is not going into NATO. The Euros do not want a war with Russia. NATO has reached it's limits. If NATO tries to receive Ukraine into it, the Russians will do something. And Ukraine is really two countries, with a Russian Orthodox East and a Catholic Teutonic West. This is all posturing now, with the US and Georgia seeing the culmination of a strategy of needling the Bear. And then the Bear came over the mountains. And sat down.
Taiwan ponders the Dragon across the straits. Though the Dragon will probably swallow Taiwan via economic rather than military means. Unless the Uighurs of Xinjiang flare up or the Tibetans, creating some real trouble for the PLA. Would we abandon Tibet again, like we did in the 50's and 60's. For all the rhetoric, HELL YES!
Bullshit, your pals Dubya and Cheney gave the lunatic in charge of Georgia the thumbs up to launch a massacre against the civilian population of South Ossetia, with tanks running over kids, setting people on fire while alive, and bombing the hospital and local university. If Iran had done that to Israel, you and the rest of the neocons would be hooping and hollaring about how much fun it was to launch all those nuclear missles over at those "rag heads" and "nutjobs" in that crazy place called Iran. Here, Russia simply defended its citizens in South Ossetia, attacked military assets of Georgia, and have pretty much left the rest of the people there alone. But THEY'RE the evil ones, eh? Hey what do you think ole Whorege is up to with that super armada heading towards Iran right now?
"Major Combat Operations have ended. Commonwealth Forces have prevailed. Victory is ours." -Would've been too much for Medvedev or Putin to have made that comment. They prolly couldn't have kept a straight face.
I know what you mean. Just like our invasion and occupation of Iraq was "Self Defense." The Russians are just taking their lessons from the Bush administration. If Russia's invasion and occupation of Georgia is illegal and immoral, what does that make our occupation of Iraq? It's funny to watch Bush and Cheney moralize about those awful Russians invading and occupying a sovereign nation when we're doing the exact same thing (with as little or less provocation). Do as I say, not as I do is alive and well in the Bush administration. And while we're at it, haven't you noticed any similarities between Russia's "liberation" of South Ossetia from Georgia and our "liberation" of Kosovo from Serbia (which Bush and most of the GOP supported 100%).
No, S2, they acted pragmatically knowing full well that the Georgian Military Strategy of light, quick forces could be overwhelmed by the tanks and artillery, rockets and planes of Russia. They simply demonstrated the modern military reality of the Caucuses, like Reagan did in Grenada and the Carib. What has changed is that the US had no counterweight to what the Russians did. Would we go nuclear over Georgia. The question answers itself.
It's their damn backyard, and it's not as if weren't deliberately trying to cut the Russians out of any pipeline deals. All yer pipelineskis belong to us!
I don't approve of what Russia is doing, but when you think about it, their meddling in the Caucausus is just their version of the Monroe Doctrine. A powerful nation always makes its neighbors satellites - look at American client states in the Caribbean, Central America, etc. Which is still easier to defend that invading and occupying nations half a world away.
"Mission Accomplished" would have been a nice touch... Well realpolitikally speaking, lookin for consistency in foreign affairs among nations is rather futile. Look at the Afghan Jihadis - When in the 80's they were blowing up girls schools, and beheading the female teachers, it was OK because the secularization effort was being lead by the Communists. Now, the savagery of the atrocities is the same, but a guy like Gulbuddin Hekmatyr is now our opponent instead of the ISI's golden boy. Lookit the covert campaign underway in Iran for the past few years - bombs in airplanes, explosions in banks, police buses blown up...... To get consistency, buy a loaf of bread.
I suspect this government has already written off Georgia, Ukraine and Taiwan. We are building a formidable offensive military presence in the Pacific at Guam. Many people believe it is to protect Taiwan, I suspect not, rather it is part of the overall containment of China and Russia. If one looks from North to South, we have Alaska, Japan, Guam, Phillipines and Australia at Asias back door, not as an invasion threat rather as a deterrent for any movement by Russia and China westwards, ME and such. Out of that group, who could we count on in a crisis???? I fear no one. Just as in the West, in a crisis the US would be alone.
I'm sympathetic to Russia.
If I were Putin, I'd tell Shrub, "I'll get out of Georgia and respect its sovereignty when you do the same for Iraq."
The same type of Propaganda Graphic could be drawn for the U.S. desolation and rape of Iraq. Got any good pictures of Abu Ghraib? How about some nice genteel crushing of the nuts of some kid whose parent the Bush Crime Cartel wants something from? How about the murder of something over 1,000,000 Iraqi's in this go round? Possibly 2 to 3 million in Afghanistan, and Toxic Radioactive waste littering the landscape of both Iraq and Afghanistan? (Note Depleted Uranium has a half-life of 4.5 BILLION YEARS.) The greatest force for evil at this time on planet earth is the corrupt and psychopathic government of the United States. Anyone who supports these fiends is an enemy of humanity, peace, freedom, and justice.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
But, but...that's DIFFERENT! Them EYE-RACKEES IS TERRISTS!
In this particular case, I agree with you. Russia is doing exactly what the USA would do in a situation where: a) someone was causing mischief on our doorstep ; b) someone plugged 12 of our citizen-peacekeepers - the USA would not show as much restraint as Russia actually - that pipeline for example would be up in smoke on the 1st day of retaliation - absolutely, without a doubt.
That's a point that usually gets buried in MSM reports. I was about to say that any country whose military fired upon US troops would get a treatment that would make what Russia did to Georgia look like lovemaking, but there's one exception to that rule - the USS Liberty.
Does this bottom make my butt look big? Yo, mama! Baby got butt!
So you are saying regardless of the 12 Russian peacekeepers being plugged, Russia would have reacted with such a massive show of force, instead of merely pushing Georgia back to its own borders, for example?
That is exactly the point. The arrogant hypocrisy of Bush criticizing Russia for responding to a first attack by Georgia as a USraeli Cat's Paw is staggering chutzpah. It is like the old saw about the definition of chutzpah - an adult man arguing for leniency from the court for murdering his parents on the grounds that he's an orphan. There are two clear realities: 1. Iraq did not attack the United States and was AT NO TIME a threat to the United States. 2. Georgia DID attack Russian interests - and committed War Crimes in the process. Because of this situation we now sit on the precipice of a global nuclear war. Russia has stated that they will use nuclear weapons in Georgia to repel a USraeli financed attack if they must. This could very rapidly escalate into an exchange between the U.S., Russia, and possibly China - to finish off the "victor". We are now at the most dangerous moment in 2,000 years. Will we allow the psychopaths to destroy the planet and our civilization?
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
NO, obvious the crossing of the peacekeeper line into Ossetia precipitated the crisis and gave Russia a cassus belli for the retaliation. What is amazing is that the Georgians were unprepared for the retaliation. Why? Didn't they think the Russians would respond, or did they believe that if they quickly occupied S. Ossetia, facts on the ground would restrict the Russian response. And why didn't US Intel spot the Russian Buildup. If they did, did we misjudge the possible response? And did we allow the Georgians to attack knowing about the buildup but not caring about the Russian response. It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup. Shades of April Glaspie's "an Arab border affair".
The sickest element is the fat, dumb, and happy American Sheeple totally oblivious and noncomprehending of the events transpiring which could steal their future, their children's future, and the future of this planet for the next thousand years. Not with a bang but a "What, me worry?".
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Impossible that we did not know.
The Russians are much better Chess Players than the drooling imbecile in the White House and his arrogant psychotic "advisors". I suspect that Russian Intelligence was well aware of what was going to happen and the Georgians walked in and got the Russians right where they wanted them. Russian forces appear to have been deployed in a dispersed set-up which was rapidly pulled together, thus I suspect pre-planned, and the Georgians/USraelis walked right into the set-up. The poisoned pawn was sacrificed and retribution was swift.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Rupert_Pupkin: That's a point that usually gets buried in MSM reports. I was about to say that any country whose military fired upon US troops would get a treatment that would make what Russia did to Georgia look like lovemaking, but there's one exception to that rule - the USS Liberty. You got it! The USS Liberty case is a shameful reminder of how our gov't betrayed US sailors for a foreign nation, Israel - the USS Liberty represents a turning point in US history when our gov't showed its re-ordered priorities, Israeli interests came first, and all of this happened under that devil incarnate, LBJ.
Oh come on OI, no need to get that melodramatic. It's over. The Russians won. No one's going to war over Georgia. All we've done is ship Georgians back to Georgia from Irak and sent a couple of C17's with aid. There's not even talk of the USNavy entering the Black Sea. Has anyone even mentioned US troops? A savage, quick little war that saw Obama vacationing in Hawaii. You'd think the Russians were helping out McCain. And, Bush, he cancelled his Beijing trip to rush back.
I can imagine that, that line, or its equivalent, is all over the board, in various forms, at FReeptard Rezpublik and Little Green Faggots.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Bush and NATO were found wanting in the eyes of the world. As Mao said long ago, the US and NATO is a paper tiger but with nuclear teeth. Mao always said it would come down to "manpower" at the bitter end of WW3.
Winner of the "Best Israel Advocacy Blog" from Jerusalem Post:
Oh come on OI, no need to get that melodramatic. It's over. The Russians won. No one's going to war over Georgia. All we've done is ship Georgians back to Georgia from Irak and sent a couple of C17's with aid. There's not even talk of the USNavy entering the Black Sea. Has anyone even mentioned US troops? A savage, quick little war that saw Obama vacationing in Hawaii. You'd think the Russians were helping out McCain. And, Bush, he cancelled his Beijing trip to rush back. I wish that were true, but the USraelis are threatening to "resupply" the Georgians, and break the Russian Naval Blockade (which isn't happening of course). I am not saying it is certain I am saying that the possibility of escalation exists as a real possibility and that the drooling faggot and fiends in the White House are not bright, and are psychotic enough, to provoke such an exchange. Do not underestimate the ability of these psychos to do something really really imbecillic and think that it is "survivable" for themselves.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI'll bet Georgia is in NATO soon and built up like never before shortly thereafter.
#2. To: Cynicom (#1)
Odds or even money?
#3. To: Cynicom (#1)
#4. To: Rotara (#2)
which means Ukraine and Georgia will be NATO and sooner than later.
#5. To: Rotara (#0)
#6. To: Cynicom (#4)
#7. To: Rotara (#0)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#8. To: Mudboy Slim (#7)
#9. To: Sam Houston (#3)
#10. To: historian1944 (#6)
The larger nation cedes its foreign policy making ability to the smaller one.
#11. To: Rotara (#0)
(Edited)
#12. To: Cynicom (#4)
#13. To: Mudboy Slim (#7)
The Russian Ruling Elite is STILL a major force fer EVIL on this Planet...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#14. To: FormerLurker (#13)
#15. To: Mudboy Slim, swarthyguy (#7)
(Edited)
#16. To: scrapper2 (#10)
(Edited)
#17. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#15)
(Edited)
#18. To: swarthyguy (#17)
#19. To: swarthyguy (#14)
(Edited)
"Major Combat Operations have ended. Commonwealth Forces have prevailed. Victory is ours."
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#20. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#15)
Russia's "liberation" of South Ossetia from Georgia and our "liberation" of Kosovo from Serbia
#21. To: swarthyguy (#12)
Taiwan ponders the Dragon across the straits.
#22. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#18)
#23. To: swarthyguy (#22)
#24. To: Mudboy Slim, Rotara, all (#7)
#25. To: Original_Intent (#24)
#26. To: swarthyguy, Rupert_Pupkin (#22)
(Edited)
I'm sympathetic to Russia.
#27. To: scrapper2 (#26)
b) someone plugged 12 of our citizen-peacekeepers - the USA would not show as much restraint as Russia actually -
#28. To: Mudboy Slim (#7)
(Edited)
While the lights were going out in Georgia.....
#29. To: swarthyguy (#16)
No, S2, they acted pragmatically knowing full well that the Georgian Military Strategy of light, quick forces could be overwhelmed by the tanks and artillery, rockets and planes of Russia.
#30. To: Rupert_Pupkin, swarthyguy, christine, Horse, Peppa, farmfriend, Cynicom, CadetD, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, Kamala, HOUNDDAWG, James Deffenbach, Percy Dovetonsils, Pinguinite, ratcat, Palo Verde, aristeides, all (#23)
If I were Putin, I'd tell Shrub, "I'll get out of Georgia and respect its sovereignty when you do the same for Iraq."
#31. To: scrapper2 (#29)
#32. To: All (#30)
#33. To: swarthyguy (#31)
It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup.
#34. To: swarthyguy, Scrapper2 (#31)
It's inconceivable that we were not aware of the Russian buildup.
#35. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#27)
scrapper2: b) someone plugged 12 of our citizen-peacekeepers - the USA would not show as much restraint as Russia actually -
#36. To: Original_Intent (#30)
the precipice of a global nuclear war.
#37. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#25)
But, but...that's DIFFERENT! Them EYE-RACKEES IS TERRISTS!
#38. To: Original_Intent (#34)
The Russians are much better Chess Players than the drooling imbecile in the White House and his arrogant psychotic "advisors".
#39. To: Original_Intent (#37)
Little Green Faggots
#40. To: swarthyguy (#36)
the precipice of a global nuclear war.
.
.
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