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Title: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles
Source: Yahoo - AP
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815 ... e_eu/russia_us_missile_defense
Published: Aug 15, 2008
Author: JIM HEINTZ
Post Date: 2008-08-15 13:51:07 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 1101
Comments: 90

1 hour, 2 minutes ago

MOSCOW - A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

The statement by Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn is the strongest threat that Russia has issued against the plans to put missile defense elements in former Soviet satellite nations.

Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.

He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.

At a news conference earlier Friday, Nogovitsyn had reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile-defense elements in Poland and the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But his subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up a war of words.

U.S. officials have said the timing of the deal was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders at a time when relations already are strained over the recent fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.

Russian forces went deep into Georgia in the fighting, raising wide concerns that Russia could be seeking to occupy parts of its small, pro-U.S. neighbor, which has vigorously lobbied to join NATO, or even to force its government to collapse.

"I think the Russian behavior over the last several days is generally concerning not only to the United States but to all of our European allies," said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman, when asked about Russian threats against Poland as a result of the missile defense agreement.

He also suggested that earlier U.S. offers for broad cooperation with Moscow on the missile defense program may be reevaluated considering the latest developments.

Under the agreement that Warsaw and Washington reached Thursday, Poland will accept an American missile interceptor base.

Washington says the planned system, which is not yet operational, is needed to protect the U.S. and Europe from possible attacks by missile-armed "rogue states" like Iran. The Kremlin, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force and warns it will worsen tensions.

In an interview on Poland's news channel TVN24, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the United States agreed to help augment Poland's defenses with Patriot missiles in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors in the Eastern European country.

He said the deal also includes a "mutual commitment" between the two nations to come to each other's assistance "in case of trouble."

That clause appeared to be a direct reference to Russia.

Poland has all along been guided by fears of a newly resurgent Russia, an anxiety that has intensified with Russia's offensive in Georgia. In past days, Polish leaders said that fighting justified Poland's demands that it get additional security guarantees from Washington in exchange for allowing the anti-missile base on its soil.

"Simply the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Friday.

___

Associated Press writers Lolita C. Baldor in Washington and Vanessa Gera in Warsaw, Poland contributed to this report.

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#1. To: Rotara (#0) (Edited)

Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

What the General doesn't understand is that the U.S. government considers every country that doesn't do exactly what we want them to do is a rogue nation.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-08-15   13:54:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Hayek Fan (#1)

The leaders of our countries, each people being responsible for their own, would best serve the world by removing themselves from the planet. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-15   14:03:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Hayek Fan (#1)

--

Who's to blame for the Russian Georgian conflict?


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-08-15   14:04:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Rotara (#2)

The leaders of our countries, each people being responsible for their own, would best serve the world by removing themselves from the planet. ;-)

Amen.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-08-15   14:04:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Hayek Fan, Rotara, all (#1)

What the General doesn't understand is that the U.S. government considers every country that doesn't do exactly as we want a rogue nation.

While our actions have shown us to be the true rogue state.

All war, all the time.

Lod  posted on  2008-08-15   14:05:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: lodwick (#5)

"While our actions have shown us to be the true rogue state.

All war, all the time."

“Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence. Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle.”

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-08-15   14:08:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Ferret Mike (#3)

Who's to blame for the Russian Georgian conflict?

I can honestly say I do not care how it started or who is to blame. Georgia is on the other side of the world and has no bearing on your life or mine. It is not worth the blood of a single American. The idea that people actually want to send American troops there is mind-boggling to me. Of course those wanting to do the sending have no friends or family in the military and only want to quench their thirst for bloodlust.

The whole situation is just one more example of why the two party fraud needs to be overthrown. They seem to be bound and determined to start a world war.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-08-15   14:13:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: lodwick (#5)

While our actions have shown us to be the true rogue state.

All war, all the time.

Yep. If the American people don't wake up real damed quick and vote the two party fraud out of office they are not going to have a country left. It's going to be nuked into oblivian.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-08-15   14:15:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Hayek Fan (#7)

Perpetual war is like any cancer, it grows larger and stronger as it weakens and kills it's host.

When the criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney get desparate and worried about losing hold of White House control, they become dangerous as any cornered animal, and don't care who gets hurt in the struggle to hold power.


"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-08-15   14:17:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Ferret Mike (#3)

Who's to blame for the Russian Georgian conflict?

Obama's masters.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-15   14:23:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: RickyJ (#10)

Yes Ricky, I do know you are still full of bull shit and innuendo. But thanks for sharing anyway.


"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-08-15   14:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Hayek Fan (#8)

If the American people don't wake up real damed quick and vote the two party fraud out of office they are not going to have a country left. It's going to be nuked into oblivian.

The Georgian "conflict" has made Bush giddy with joy. He thought he was going to have to limp out of his second term into oblivion, but now he's got his chance to thump his chest and rail against the Russians like it's 1989.

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” Schweizerische Schutzenseitunt (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

X-15  posted on  2008-08-15   14:28:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Ferret Mike (#11)

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-15   14:28:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Rotara (#0)

Russia is really starting to sound like a nation that is getting ready for a war with the USA. They must have lost their minds. They will be obliterated.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-15   14:31:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Ferret Mike (#9)

When the criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney get desparate and worried about losing hold of White House control, they become dangerous as any cornered animal, and don't care who gets hurt in the struggle to hold power.

One big difference between your view of the world and mine is that I believe the "criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney" also runs Obama and the Democratic Party, and of course, the Republican Party. IMHO the only two people who were not bought and paid for in the presidential election were Paul and Kucinich.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-08-15   14:32:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: RickyJ (#14)

Can you detail the scenario where Russia is obliterated and the US is not?

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-15   14:35:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Rotara (#0)

"Simply the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Friday.

Of course it increases their security. It also unfortunately makes them much more dependent on the USA for protection. It's not good to be dependent on any foreign nation for any thing.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-15   14:36:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: RickyJ (#14)

Russia is really starting to sound like a nation that is getting ready for a war with the USA. They must have lost their minds. They will be obliterated.

Only if it goes nuclear. The U.S. is stretched to thin to do much. It's going to take much more than light infantry and airborne troops to take on the Russians. We will need our heavy divisions. The Russians are not going to be like Saddam and sit and wait three months for us to fly all of our equipment to a safe staging area.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-08-15   14:36:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Hayek Fan (#15) (Edited)

One big difference between your view of the world and mine is that I believe the "criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney" also runs Obama and the Democratic Party, and of course, the Republican Party. IMHO the only two people who were not bought and paid for in the presidential election were Paul and Kucinich

I always ask the Obamaites the following question: if Obama is really the outsider, maverick anti-establishment candidate, why has the mass media had a love affair with him, rather than ignoring or smearing him the way they smear true anti-establishment candidates like Ron Paul? Anyone with so much mainstream media backing ought to set off alarms right off the bat.

I almost want BHO to win so I can see the looks on the Obamaites' faces when they find out that their Messiah is just another DNC hack. Just like the people who thought that electing Bush would be a good antidote to Clinton back in 2000.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-15   14:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#16)

Can you detail the scenario where Russia is obliterated and the US is not?

LOL!

That all depends on how good the USA's missile defense system is when the nukes start flying. Right now I would say the USA and Russia would both be obliterated. But I can't be sure of that considering the way USA has been acting lately.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-15   14:39:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#19)

I almost want BHO to win so I can see the looks on the Obamaites' faces when they find out that their Messiah is just another DNC hack. Just like the people who thought that electing Bush would be a good antidote to Clinton back in 2000.

I'm to the point where I don't care who wins because we are going to wind up in the same place regardless. I'm not even sure I'm going to vote this time around. I will not vote for Baldwin because he is pro-war on drugs. I will not vote for Barr because I believe him to be a Republican plant who entered the race to split the Ron Paul vote. Obama and McCain are out of the question. They are part of the problem so cannot be the answer.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-08-15   14:43:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Hayek Fan (#15)

"One big difference between your view of the world and mine is that I believe the "criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney" also runs Obama and the Democratic Party, and of course, the Republican Party. IMHO the only two people who were not bought and paid for in the presidential election were Paul and Kucinich."

To me any election, this one included is like being handed a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse while in a boat and being asked if I am going to sit there complaining about this happening or fish. I am always going to pick the candidate that comes out of the few the power elite allow to be chosen from I feel has the most promise and potential to be someone that will be constructive and do the right thing.

I have many friends who would prefer Bushes and McCains to develop chaos and destruction as to make fallow the ground for real green anarchy to take root. I can't run with that mode of doing things, and they and you are welcome to disagree with me for supporting Barack Obama with my time and money, but the best I can do is note your opinions, and do what I feel I have to do.


"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-08-15   14:48:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Hayek Fan (#21) (Edited)

I'm to the point where I don't care who wins because we are going to wind up in the same place regardless. I'm not even sure I'm going to vote this time around. I will not vote for Baldwin because he is pro-war on drugs. I will not vote for Barr because I believe him to be a Republican plant who entered the race to split the Ron Paul vote. Obama and McCain are out of the question. They are part of the problem so cannot be the answer.

We'll get more welfare and warfare state with both McCain and Obama. Slightly more welfare with Obama, and slightly more warfare with McCain, but fundamentally no difference. When I said I wanted BHO to win, I was being facetious - it really doesn't matter to me, but it sure will be funny to watch the Obamites, at least the smarter ones, realize that they've been had by their empty suit Saviour.

As far as third party candidates go, I'll vote for whichever one makes the biggest splash as a protest vote. Since none of them have any chance of winning, I'd even vote for somebody like Nader just to boost the "none of the above" numbers, if he were at the top of the third party contender list. Barr might score a couple of percentage points, so he'll probably get my protest vote even though I can't stand his liberal views on immigration (which is the norm for most Libertarian Party members, unfortunately). The Constitution Party is basically a non-factor, and for what it's worth, they seem more Theocrats than Constitutionalists on a lot of issues.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-15   14:49:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: RickyJ (#13)

"The truth hurts, doesn't it?"

The truth is, that if stupidity was painful, you would be rolling around on the ground right now screaming in agony, and would be unable to post.

Too bad having a brain sack full of straw doesn't have that effect on people, yes? I sure wish it did anyway.


"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-08-15   14:51:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: RickyJ (#17)

Of course it increases their security. It also unfortunately makes them much more dependent on the USA for protection. It's not good to be dependent on any foreign nation for any thing.

Entangling alliance. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-15   16:11:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: RickyJ (#14)

Russia is really starting to sound like a nation that is getting ready for a war with the USA. They must have lost their minds. They will be obliterated.

Please do not bet the farm on this one. We rally have no idea what they have in their arsenal, now do we?

Lod  posted on  2008-08-15   20:42:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Ferret Mike (#24)

Hey, FM you're back.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-15   20:46:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Rotara (#25)

Russia has been at Polands throat for centuries.

The last time with Stalin and Hitler.

" * The First Partition: August 5, 1772. * The Second Partition: January 23, 1793 (in which Austria did not participate). * The Third Partition: October 24, 1795.

The less often used term "Fourth Partition of Poland" may refer to any subsequent division of Polish lands, specifically:

* after the Napoleonic Era, the 1815 division of the Duchy of Warsaw at the Congress of Vienna; * the 1832 incorporation of the "Congress Kingdom" into Russia, and the 1846 incorporation of the Republic of Kraków into Austria; and * the 1939 division of Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union pursuant to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.[4]

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-15   20:52:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Rotara (#0)

The pollack's better get on the clue bus and duck back under the wing of communism or risk incineration.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-08-15   20:55:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Rotara (#0)

Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

Those dumbasses need to stop poking the bear with that stick. The idiots obviously still think this is 1994 and Russia is still ran buy an ass grabbing lush and that the bear is de-clawed and toothless. While it's debatable if Iran has carrier killer missiles, Russia has them in spades. They are probably the only force on the planet that can take the US out of the power projection business. You don't have to live in fear of the bear, but you damned well better have some respect for it.

"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5

orangedog  posted on  2008-08-15   21:33:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Rotara, EghoHan, all (#25)

We gave a load. Who knows what it will go for our guys...

It may be time to start donating in lead...

Lod  posted on  2008-08-15   21:46:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Cynicom (#28)

Russia has been at Polands throat for centuries.

I think there are a number of reasons for this and it's not just Poland, it's also the Ukraine that Russia has always tried to get under its thumb, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. But there has always been tension with those 3 countries.

1. Both Poland and the Ukraine represent important geo-political buffer states to Mother Russia that an invading army needs to cross to get at Russia so Russia would like to have both nations under its sphere of influence to keep a watchful eye on the leanings/loyalties of the Poles and Ukies so they don't engage in treachery and offer a back door easy access to Russia.

2. Poland and the Ukraine offer Russia ice free seaports for trade and commerce with European nations and for Russia's navy for defense purposes.

3. Poland and the Ukraine have always been culturally and intellectually advanced because of their proximity to European nations like Austria Germany the Netherlands and Scandanavia. Poles and Ukrainians offer Russia an educated and highly trainable pool of subjects to subjugate if necessary.

4. Poland and the Ukraine had land and climate that made them the agricultural bread baskets of Eastern Europe and since much of Russia's terrain and climate were not as hospitable to farming, Poland and the Ukraine were assets for providing food to Russian peoples.

5. Both Poland and the Ukraine have always been fervently nationalistic and if these 2 nations could be put under Russia's thumb, they would serve as object studies to other Eastern European nations who were less populous annd who had less of an innate independent drive or nature - "See, if the Poles and Ukies were thwarted in their efforts to separate from Russia's long hand, what chance do you folks in Estonia or Belarus or Czech Republic have?"

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-15   21:52:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: orangedog, All (#30)

Those dumbasses need to stop poking the bear with that stick. The idiots obviously still think this is 1994 and Russia is still ran buy an ass grabbing lush and that the bear is de-clawed and toothless. While it's debatable if Iran has carrier killer missiles, Russia has them in spades. They are probably the only force on the planet that can take the US out of the power projection business. You don't have to live in fear of the bear, but you damned well better have some respect for it.

Bump. Excellent observations. I like your last statement in particular.

And if Poland for example has missile intercepter bases, and if in theory, Russia and the USA begin hostilities in earnest, won't Russia's missiles rain over Poland and kill the Poles in order for the Continental nations - old Europe - like France and Italy - to be kept safe and unscathed??? So why is the Polish government volunteering for this suicidal job?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-15   22:00:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: scrapper2 (#32)

and it's not just Poland,

Russia did not become the worlds largest nation as a gift from God like some other people. They took it by force, threat and intimidation.

Two things come to mind on that subject...

During our Civil War, Russia was meddling, in that by sending a fleet here in support of the North.

The Russians in the 1930s had plans of going to the English channel. That is why they pushed and aided Hitler to move WEST first, in hopes he would be so weakened they could attack from behind and march to the channel. When the West caved in weeks, Stalin knew he was next.

I have zero sympathy for the Russians. They are friends to no one.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-15   22:00:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Cynicom (#34)

I have zero sympathy for the Russians. They are friends to no one.

I did not cite reasons for why Russia has been trying to keep Poland and the Ukraine under its thumb as a matter of being sympathetic to Russia. I merely gave you and others the reasons why I thought Poland and Ukraine were continually victimized by Russia. Russia's reasons are not good for Poland and the Ukraine - they are good reasons for Russia only.

Russia acts in its own interests as most countries do except for America. Since the 6 Day War, America has re-ordered its priorities. It no longer acts solely in its own interests. Since the LBJ Administration, America been acting in 2 nation's best interests - ie. Israel's and America's. Unfortunately Israel's interests are not America's best interests and in fact are the opposite of America's best interests. And that's why we are having the problems we do in the Middle East today.

Professors Mearsheimer and Walt do an excellent job in their 400 page book "The Israel Lobby" in illustrating how our gov't is putting Israel's interests first in our ME foreign policy and how America is suffering terrible consequences for that very reason. ( examples being the situation with Iraq and Iran)

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-15   22:22:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: buckeye (#27)

"Hey, FM you're back."

Yup. Good to see ya.


"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-08-15   23:05:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: lodwick (#31)

We gave a load. Who knows what it will go for our guys...

It may be time to start donating in lead...

If we begin to unload the type and quantity of ordnance required to push the Soviet troops out of Georgia (Abkhazia/South Ossetia), then hide the young people because a draft will be on it's heels imo. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-16   10:56:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: scrapper2 (#35)

I did not cite reasons for why Russia has been trying to keep Poland and the Ukraine under its thumb as a matter of being sympathetic to Russia. I merely gave you and others the reasons why I thought Poland and Ukraine were continually victimized by Russia. Russia's reasons are not good for Poland and the Ukraine - they are good reasons for Russia only.

Russia acts in its own interests as most countries do except for America. Since the 6 Day War, America has re-ordered its priorities. It no longer acts solely in its own interests. Since the LBJ Administration, America been acting in 2 nation's best interests - ie. Israel's and America's. Unfortunately Israel's interests are not America's best interests and in fact are the opposite of America's best interests. And that's why we are having the problems we do in the Middle East today.

Professors Mearsheimer and Walt do an excellent job in their 400 page book "The Israel Lobby" in illustrating how our gov't is putting Israel's interests first in our ME foreign policy and how America is suffering terrible consequences for that very reason. ( examples being the situation with Iraq and Iran)

We've already determined that you don't know your head from your ass when it comes to the international globalist power structure. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-16   10:58:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Rotara (#37)

If we begin to unload the type and quantity of ordnance required to push the Soviet troops out of Georgia (Abkhazia/South Ossetia), then hide the young people because a draft will be on it's heels imo. ;-)

The only 'winners' will be the MIC and the banksters.

Lod  posted on  2008-08-16   11:01:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: lodwick (#39)

The only 'winners' will be the MIC and the banksters.

If only we could get the boots to turn on their MIC puppets and we the people could rout out the scum banksters from America. We'd have half a chance. Too many people, though, have their craniums lodged in their sphincters. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-16   11:06:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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