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Title: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles
Source:
Yahoo - AP
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815 ... e_eu/russia_us_missile_defense
Published: Aug 15, 2008
Author: JIM HEINTZ
Post Date: 2008-08-15 13:51:07 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 1907
Comments: 90
1 hour, 2 minutes ago MOSCOW - A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported. The statement by Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn is the strongest threat that Russia has issued against the plans to put missile defense elements in former Soviet satellite nations. Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force. "Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying. He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax. At a news conference earlier Friday, Nogovitsyn had reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile-defense elements in Poland and the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But his subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up a war of words. U.S. officials have said the timing of the deal was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders at a time when relations already are strained over the recent fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia. Russian forces went deep into Georgia in the fighting, raising wide concerns that Russia could be seeking to occupy parts of its small, pro-U.S. neighbor, which has vigorously lobbied to join NATO, or even to force its government to collapse. "I think the Russian behavior over the last several days is generally concerning not only to the United States but to all of our European allies," said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman, when asked about Russian threats against Poland as a result of the missile defense agreement. He also suggested that earlier U.S. offers for broad cooperation with Moscow on the missile defense program may be reevaluated considering the latest developments. Under the agreement that Warsaw and Washington reached Thursday, Poland will accept an American missile interceptor base. Washington says the planned system, which is not yet operational, is needed to protect the U.S. and Europe from possible attacks by missile-armed "rogue states" like Iran. The Kremlin, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force and warns it will worsen tensions. In an interview on Poland's news channel TVN24, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the United States agreed to help augment Poland's defenses with Patriot missiles in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors in the Eastern European country. He said the deal also includes a "mutual commitment" between the two nations to come to each other's assistance "in case of trouble." That clause appeared to be a direct reference to Russia. Poland has all along been guided by fears of a newly resurgent Russia, an anxiety that has intensified with Russia's offensive in Georgia. In past days, Polish leaders said that fighting justified Poland's demands that it get additional security guarantees from Washington in exchange for allowing the anti-missile base on its soil. "Simply the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Friday. ___ Associated Press writers Lolita C. Baldor in Washington and Vanessa Gera in Warsaw, Poland contributed to this report.
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#13. To: Ferret Mike (#11)
The truth hurts, doesn't it?
God is always good!
Russia is really starting to sound like a nation that is getting ready for a war with the USA. They must have lost their minds. They will be obliterated.
God is always good!
One big difference between your view of the world and mine is that I believe the "criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney" also runs Obama and the Democratic Party, and of course, the Republican Party. IMHO the only two people who were not bought and paid for in the presidential election were Paul and Kucinich.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
Can you detail the scenario where Russia is obliterated and the US is not?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Of course it increases their security. It also unfortunately makes them much more dependent on the USA for protection. It's not good to be dependent on any foreign nation for any thing.
God is always good!
Only if it goes nuclear. The U.S. is stretched to thin to do much. It's going to take much more than light infantry and airborne troops to take on the Russians. We will need our heavy divisions. The Russians are not going to be like Saddam and sit and wait three months for us to fly all of our equipment to a safe staging area.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
I always ask the Obamaites the following question: if Obama is really the outsider, maverick anti-establishment candidate, why has the mass media had a love affair with him, rather than ignoring or smearing him the way they smear true anti-establishment candidates like Ron Paul? Anyone with so much mainstream media backing ought to set off alarms right off the bat. I almost want BHO to win so I can see the looks on the Obamaites' faces when they find out that their Messiah is just another DNC hack. Just like the people who thought that electing Bush would be a good antidote to Clinton back in 2000.
LOL! That all depends on how good the USA's missile defense system is when the nukes start flying. Right now I would say the USA and Russia would both be obliterated. But I can't be sure of that considering the way USA has been acting lately.
God is always good!
I'm to the point where I don't care who wins because we are going to wind up in the same place regardless. I'm not even sure I'm going to vote this time around. I will not vote for Baldwin because he is pro-war on drugs. I will not vote for Barr because I believe him to be a Republican plant who entered the race to split the Ron Paul vote. Obama and McCain are out of the question. They are part of the problem so cannot be the answer.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
To me any election, this one included is like being handed a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse while in a boat and being asked if I am going to sit there complaining about this happening or fish. I am always going to pick the candidate that comes out of the few the power elite allow to be chosen from I feel has the most promise and potential to be someone that will be constructive and do the right thing. I have many friends who would prefer Bushes and McCains to develop chaos and destruction as to make fallow the ground for real green anarchy to take root. I can't run with that mode of doing things, and they and you are welcome to disagree with me for supporting Barack Obama with my time and money, but the best I can do is note your opinions, and do what I feel I have to do.
We'll get more welfare and warfare state with both McCain and Obama. Slightly more welfare with Obama, and slightly more warfare with McCain, but fundamentally no difference. When I said I wanted BHO to win, I was being facetious - it really doesn't matter to me, but it sure will be funny to watch the Obamites, at least the smarter ones, realize that they've been had by their empty suit Saviour. As far as third party candidates go, I'll vote for whichever one makes the biggest splash as a protest vote. Since none of them have any chance of winning, I'd even vote for somebody like Nader just to boost the "none of the above" numbers, if he were at the top of the third party contender list. Barr might score a couple of percentage points, so he'll probably get my protest vote even though I can't stand his liberal views on immigration (which is the norm for most Libertarian Party members, unfortunately). The Constitution Party is basically a non-factor, and for what it's worth, they seem more Theocrats than Constitutionalists on a lot of issues.
The truth is, that if stupidity was painful, you would be rolling around on the ground right now screaming in agony, and would be unable to post. Too bad having a brain sack full of straw doesn't have that effect on people, yes? I sure wish it did anyway.
Entangling alliance. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Please do not bet the farm on this one. We rally have no idea what they have in their arsenal, now do we?
Hey, FM you're back.
Russia has been at Polands throat for centuries. The last time with Stalin and Hitler. " * The First Partition: August 5, 1772. * The Second Partition: January 23, 1793 (in which Austria did not participate). * The Third Partition: October 24, 1795. The less often used term "Fourth Partition of Poland" may refer to any subsequent division of Polish lands, specifically: * after the Napoleonic Era, the 1815 division of the Duchy of Warsaw at the Congress of Vienna; * the 1832 incorporation of the "Congress Kingdom" into Russia, and the 1846 incorporation of the Republic of Kraków into Austria; and * the 1939 division of Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union pursuant to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.[4]
The pollack's better get on the clue bus and duck back under the wing of communism or risk incineration.
Those dumbasses need to stop poking the bear with that stick. The idiots obviously still think this is 1994 and Russia is still ran buy an ass grabbing lush and that the bear is de-clawed and toothless. While it's debatable if Iran has carrier killer missiles, Russia has them in spades. They are probably the only force on the planet that can take the US out of the power projection business. You don't have to live in fear of the bear, but you damned well better have some respect for it.
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5
We gave a load. Who knows what it will go for our guys... It may be time to start donating in lead...
I think there are a number of reasons for this and it's not just Poland, it's also the Ukraine that Russia has always tried to get under its thumb, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. But there has always been tension with those 3 countries. 1. Both Poland and the Ukraine represent important geo-political buffer states to Mother Russia that an invading army needs to cross to get at Russia so Russia would like to have both nations under its sphere of influence to keep a watchful eye on the leanings/loyalties of the Poles and Ukies so they don't engage in treachery and offer a back door easy access to Russia. 2. Poland and the Ukraine offer Russia ice free seaports for trade and commerce with European nations and for Russia's navy for defense purposes. 3. Poland and the Ukraine have always been culturally and intellectually advanced because of their proximity to European nations like Austria Germany the Netherlands and Scandanavia. Poles and Ukrainians offer Russia an educated and highly trainable pool of subjects to subjugate if necessary. 4. Poland and the Ukraine had land and climate that made them the agricultural bread baskets of Eastern Europe and since much of Russia's terrain and climate were not as hospitable to farming, Poland and the Ukraine were assets for providing food to Russian peoples. 5. Both Poland and the Ukraine have always been fervently nationalistic and if these 2 nations could be put under Russia's thumb, they would serve as object studies to other Eastern European nations who were less populous annd who had less of an innate independent drive or nature - "See, if the Poles and Ukies were thwarted in their efforts to separate from Russia's long hand, what chance do you folks in Estonia or Belarus or Czech Republic have?"
Bump. Excellent observations. I like your last statement in particular. And if Poland for example has missile intercepter bases, and if in theory, Russia and the USA begin hostilities in earnest, won't Russia's missiles rain over Poland and kill the Poles in order for the Continental nations - old Europe - like France and Italy - to be kept safe and unscathed??? So why is the Polish government volunteering for this suicidal job?
Russia did not become the worlds largest nation as a gift from God like some other people. They took it by force, threat and intimidation. Two things come to mind on that subject... During our Civil War, Russia was meddling, in that by sending a fleet here in support of the North. The Russians in the 1930s had plans of going to the English channel. That is why they pushed and aided Hitler to move WEST first, in hopes he would be so weakened they could attack from behind and march to the channel. When the West caved in weeks, Stalin knew he was next. I have zero sympathy for the Russians. They are friends to no one.
I did not cite reasons for why Russia has been trying to keep Poland and the Ukraine under its thumb as a matter of being sympathetic to Russia. I merely gave you and others the reasons why I thought Poland and Ukraine were continually victimized by Russia. Russia's reasons are not good for Poland and the Ukraine - they are good reasons for Russia only. Russia acts in its own interests as most countries do except for America. Since the 6 Day War, America has re-ordered its priorities. It no longer acts solely in its own interests. Since the LBJ Administration, America been acting in 2 nation's best interests - ie. Israel's and America's. Unfortunately Israel's interests are not America's best interests and in fact are the opposite of America's best interests. And that's why we are having the problems we do in the Middle East today. Professors Mearsheimer and Walt do an excellent job in their 400 page book "The Israel Lobby" in illustrating how our gov't is putting Israel's interests first in our ME foreign policy and how America is suffering terrible consequences for that very reason. ( examples being the situation with Iraq and Iran)
Yup. Good to see ya.
It may be time to start donating in lead... If we begin to unload the type and quantity of ordnance required to push the Soviet troops out of Georgia (Abkhazia/South Ossetia), then hide the young people because a draft will be on it's heels imo. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Russia acts in its own interests as most countries do except for America. Since the 6 Day War, America has re-ordered its priorities. It no longer acts solely in its own interests. Since the LBJ Administration, America been acting in 2 nation's best interests - ie. Israel's and America's. Unfortunately Israel's interests are not America's best interests and in fact are the opposite of America's best interests. And that's why we are having the problems we do in the Middle East today. Professors Mearsheimer and Walt do an excellent job in their 400 page book "The Israel Lobby" in illustrating how our gov't is putting Israel's interests first in our ME foreign policy and how America is suffering terrible consequences for that very reason. ( examples being the situation with Iraq and Iran) We've already determined that you don't know your head from your ass when it comes to the international globalist power structure. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
The only 'winners' will be the MIC and the banksters.
If only we could get the boots to turn on their MIC puppets and we the people could rout out the scum banksters from America. We'd have half a chance. Too many people, though, have their craniums lodged in their sphincters. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
"We" is I presume "you." And you know so much about international ggggggglobalists. That's the depth of your political analysis - it's always one liners about ggggglobalists, ttttraitors, ttttrilateralists, and CCCCCFRers being the cause of every problem in the US and the world. You never dissect or identify any event. You never see permutations, complexities of situations. You rarely offer insightful opinions. It's always the gggglobalists and traitors, and new world orders - those same old same old "safe" all encompassing labels you turn to. Btw in as much as you talk about the terms have you ever gone to the library and read foreign policy magazines like what's published by the CFR? They do publish one btw - it's not secret at all - and its been published since the 1920's I believe. Or have you bothered to browse through reference textbooks like Axelrod's "The international encyclopedia of secret societies and fraternal orders"? Bet you haven't - I have. I actually use academic and public libraries for expanding my knowledge - do you? I suspect not. Try wrapping your brain around this immutable fact, bucko - the US has 1000's of secret societies. They have always been and they always will be. It's not the societies that are the problem, it's the influence of certain individuals who might be in them. And these individuals - like Henry Kissinger, for example - would be influential and anti-America, regardless if they were in CFR or not. Richard, Gere, a pretty boy light weight political dilatant is a member of CFR and he has zero influence on US foreign policy and CFR membership does not help him. Sheldon Adelson, to my knowledge, is not a member of CFR. However Sheldon Adelson is the 3 richest man in the USA. Sheldon Adelson is a bigtime Zionist and he brings the power and influence of his riches to bear on the White House and Congressmen and Senators to promote his singular interest in life - Israel, and Adelson presses Israel's interests on our federal law makers even when Israel's interests are in conflict with America's interests. Here's some examples of how I see individuals influencing foreign policy today. When Sheldon Adelson calls any US President, they answer the phone no matter what they are doing, no matter what meeting they are in. If Richard Gere calls, a message is taken. If Henry Kissinger calls, more than likely the call is taken on the spot but sometimes a message is taken and a call back is done later in the day - there's not the urgency as when Adelson calls. Kissinger is a powerful man because of his personal stature in politics and his contacts with powerful people like Adelson, some of whom he has met through his CFR membership but many whom he has met outside CFR. Times have changed and especially so the past 10-15 years. Power and influence in world political affairs have been re-configured to accomodate the amazing personal wealth accumulated by a handful of very very rich individuals in the world. CFR is a powerful organization - absolutely - but is its influence as great today as it was during the 30's, 40's 50's, 60's ? I would suggest to you that the answer is "no." Organizations like CFR have had to take a back seat to MONEYED INDIVIDUALS like Adelson. Look at the Forbes list of billionaires - those are the people who rule Presidents, Kings, and Queens. And they don't need no CFR membership to give them the clout they have today. You don't have to agree with my opinions. Frankly I could care less what a shallow intellect like youself thinks of my opinions. I have opinions because I analyze. And I take the time and energy to support my opinions. You have no opinions. You do not analyze. You have only safe labels. So for a person like you to be critical of me and my knowledge of foreign affairs is beyond laughable. Stuff it where the sun don't shine, rotorooter.
You are beyond laughable. You're an old school joke who's obsessed with everything BUT our solution. You running around telling people what YOU think reality is and YOU don't even know what the CFR's (and I'm sure the Trilateralists or the Bilderberg Society or any of the others) mission statement is. You're an idiot. And a NAZI. Now run along, there's a secular jew under your bed waiting to get you. Better go kill him. Ya dumb beotch. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
You running around telling people what YOU think reality is and YOU don't even know what the CFR's (and I'm sure the Trilateralists or the Bilderberg Society or any of the others) mission statement is. You're an idiot. And a NAZI. Now run along, there's a secular jew under your bed waiting to get you. Better go kill him. Ya dumb beotch. ;-) Catch a clue, genius. Your self-promoted highly vaunted oh-so deep foreign policy knowledge about CFR's Trilateralists, Bilderberg Society is accessible to elementary school age children using Google. Duh. Your stomping around and shouting obscenities and calling me a NAZI 1000 times does not scare me or turn me into a NAZI, she-man. And it's rather rich irony that a Rapturenutter like yourself - whose religious beliefs revolves around hoping and cheering for Israel's ultimate destruction and lotsa Jewish Israelis being killed, well except for those few Israelis and Jews who convert to your warped version of Christianity - accuses me of being a Nazi and of hating Jews. Riiiiighttt, that's rich irony indeed. Listen up, Mr. Pretend Christian. I don't cheer and hope and pray and look forward to Israel being destroyed in a nuclear holocaust. I don't insult Judaism and its beliefs like you do, secretly looking down it Judaism, and wanting to prostelyze Jews and convert them because you think your sick version of Christianity is the only way to Heaven. And another thing, rotorooter, I actually have Jewish friends and neighbors and professional acquaintances who look forward to seeing me and spending time with me, who respect and trust me, as opposed to your situation, no doubt, wherein you scare off Jews once they discover what a dis-respectful attitude you have to Judaism and what you want to happen to Israel so you can leap frog over death and destruction to Heaven. March on, brother, the cataclysmic event you so wish for might be right around the corner. Gack.
Very well stated. I wouldn't vote for either of them for dog catcher, let alone for president of this country.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Now run along, there's a secular jew under your bed waiting to get you. Better go kill him. Ya dumb beotch. ;-) This bullshit is totally uncalled for. Grow up, please, for the sake of this forum. Scrapper is one of the best posters the forum has because she does her homework on various topics and issues.....it isn't just 'blather' or 'bleating'. Certainly not the same old, same old. You don't have to agree with her, or anyone else, for that matter, but you should at least be civil. If you think she is so far off base, why not back up YOUR contentions with the same degree of information that she posts?
LOL - now THAT is a good one!!! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
This is beginning to get worrisome. It is obvious that the missile emplacements that are being scheduled for Poland are NOT defensive systems. The undercurrent is that the NWO/Globalists are using the US to encircle Russia and the Russians are not going to go meekly into the night while their perimeter is set up with missiles aimed at Russia. The idiots pushing this strategy are courting Global Thermonuclear War. It is almost as though the nihilistic Sociopaths/Psychotics are trying to instigate such a scenario. Of course the elite have deep bunkers interconnected via rail systems and regard a nuclear war as survivable for them. Those of us not so privileged are sitting ducks. However, the Russian mainland is much more survivable than ours. Hit the Yellowstone shield volcano and you could possibly bury much of the continent in radioactive volcanic ash. So, the apparent confrontation of Russia via USrael's cat's paw, Georgia, takes on much larger implications, and the attempt to ring Russia with missile emplacement pushes the Russian buttons to the point where they might feel that they must act to take out those emplacements before they can be used against them. This is not good.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
With that I must agree. Your ungentlemanly behavior toward Scrapper is something I find inexplicable. I understand that tempers do become frayed and a forum is not always run by Marquis De Queensbury rules, but there has to be a reason for your "Brass Knuckle" behavior as it was out of place given what Scrapper had to say - agree or disagree. What has she done or said that has you so fired up?
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
I was paying attention from the start. For what it's worth, in my opinion Rotara is one of the good guys, but although I understand it, I agree that the behavior is very ungentlemanly... Edit: ...and uncalled for.
She's no lady. She's a Zbig shill that has no answers for America, only contempt for Israel. Loser. FWIW, I held back. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I went ahead and spent the afternoon retracing it, post by CFR-Trilat post. I got so freaking angry again I had to go hit the heavy bag for awhile. I have it all documented, be sure of that. I apologize for offending your sensibilities. You see the whole board as well as anyone out there and if you're another one of these RNCFR shills - you sure have me fooled! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I think at one time or another I have managed to piss off the Rinobots, the Israbots, Anarcusts, Oh'Bummerphiles, Hitleryites, Goldi-Pox, and the slack jawed drooling mouth breathing FReeptards. All modesty aside I am filled with pride at having been a bit of a burden on their disinformational careers and a disturbance to their "Rosy Scenarios".
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
With which I also agree, which is part of why I am puzzled by the behavior. I know there is a reason, but still even fundamental disagreements can be handled without personal epithets.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
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#14. To: Rotara (#0)
#15. To: Ferret Mike (#9)
When the criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney get desparate and worried about losing hold of White House control, they become dangerous as any cornered animal, and don't care who gets hurt in the struggle to hold power.
#16. To: RickyJ (#14)
#17. To: Rotara (#0)
"Simply the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Friday.
#18. To: RickyJ (#14)
Russia is really starting to sound like a nation that is getting ready for a war with the USA. They must have lost their minds. They will be obliterated.
#19. To: Hayek Fan (#15)
(Edited)
One big difference between your view of the world and mine is that I believe the "criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney" also runs Obama and the Democratic Party, and of course, the Republican Party. IMHO the only two people who were not bought and paid for in the presidential election were Paul and Kucinich
#20. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#16)
Can you detail the scenario where Russia is obliterated and the US is not?
#21. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#19)
I almost want BHO to win so I can see the looks on the Obamaites' faces when they find out that their Messiah is just another DNC hack. Just like the people who thought that electing Bush would be a good antidote to Clinton back in 2000.
#22. To: Hayek Fan (#15)
"One big difference between your view of the world and mine is that I believe the "criminal shadow elite running Bush and Cheney" also runs Obama and the Democratic Party, and of course, the Republican Party. IMHO the only two people who were not bought and paid for in the presidential election were Paul and Kucinich."
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#23. To: Hayek Fan (#21)
(Edited)
I'm to the point where I don't care who wins because we are going to wind up in the same place regardless. I'm not even sure I'm going to vote this time around. I will not vote for Baldwin because he is pro-war on drugs. I will not vote for Barr because I believe him to be a Republican plant who entered the race to split the Ron Paul vote. Obama and McCain are out of the question. They are part of the problem so cannot be the answer.
#24. To: RickyJ (#13)
"The truth hurts, doesn't it?"
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#25. To: RickyJ (#17)
Of course it increases their security. It also unfortunately makes them much more dependent on the USA for protection. It's not good to be dependent on any foreign nation for any thing.
#26. To: RickyJ (#14)
Russia is really starting to sound like a nation that is getting ready for a war with the USA. They must have lost their minds. They will be obliterated.
#27. To: Ferret Mike (#24)
#28. To: Rotara (#25)
#29. To: Rotara (#0)
#30. To: Rotara (#0)
Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.
#31. To: Rotara, EghoHan, all (#25)
#32. To: Cynicom (#28)
Russia has been at Polands throat for centuries.
#33. To: orangedog, All (#30)
Those dumbasses need to stop poking the bear with that stick. The idiots obviously still think this is 1994 and Russia is still ran buy an ass grabbing lush and that the bear is de-clawed and toothless. While it's debatable if Iran has carrier killer missiles, Russia has them in spades. They are probably the only force on the planet that can take the US out of the power projection business. You don't have to live in fear of the bear, but you damned well better have some respect for it.
#34. To: scrapper2 (#32)
and it's not just Poland,
#35. To: Cynicom (#34)
I have zero sympathy for the Russians. They are friends to no one.
#36. To: buckeye (#27)
"Hey, FM you're back."
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#37. To: lodwick (#31)
We gave a load. Who knows what it will go for our guys...
#38. To: scrapper2 (#35)
I did not cite reasons for why Russia has been trying to keep Poland and the Ukraine under its thumb as a matter of being sympathetic to Russia. I merely gave you and others the reasons why I thought Poland and Ukraine were continually victimized by Russia. Russia's reasons are not good for Poland and the Ukraine - they are good reasons for Russia only.
#39. To: Rotara (#37)
If we begin to unload the type and quantity of ordnance required to push the Soviet troops out of Georgia (Abkhazia/South Ossetia), then hide the young people because a draft will be on it's heels imo. ;-)
#40. To: lodwick (#39)
The only 'winners' will be the MIC and the banksters.
#41. To: Rotara, James Deffenbach, rowdee (#38)
We've already determined that you don't know your head from your ass when it comes to the international globalist power structure. ;-)
#42. To: scrapper2 (#41)
So for a person like you to be critical of me and my knowledge of foreign affairs is beyond laughable.
#43. To: Rotara, buckeye, rowdee, christine, Diana, Original_Intent (#42)
(Edited)
You are beyond laughable. You're an old school joke who's obsessed with everything BUT our solution.
#44. To: Hayek Fan (#21)
Obama and McCain are out of the question. They are part of the problem so cannot be the answer.
Lord Acton
#45. To: Rotara, Christine, scrapper2 (#42)
And a NAZI.
#46. To: rowdee (#45)
Scrapper is one of the best posters the forum has because she does her homework on various topics and issues
#47. To: Rotara, Hayek Fan, Scrapper2, Cynicom, Lodwick, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, Ferret Mike, aristeides, all (#0)
#48. To: Rotara, rowdee, Scrapper2 (#46)
You don't have to agree with her, or anyone else, for that matter, but you should at least be civil.
#49. To: Original_Intent, scrapper2, Rotara (#48)
(Edited)
With that I must agree. Your ungentlemanly behavior toward Scrapper is something I find inexplicable.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~ Herbert Spencer
#50. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent (#49)
#51. To: Original_Intent (#48)
What has she done or said that has you so fired up?
#52. To: Rotara (#51)
You see the whole board as well as anyone out there and if you're another one of these RNCFR shills - you sure have me fooled! ;-)
#53. To: wudidiz, Rotara (#49)
I was paying attention from the start. For what it's worth, in my opinion Rotara is one of the good guys,
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