[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Silver Is Starting To Break Out. Here's What To Watch

Border Patrol Union Fact Checks Harris Over 'Photo Op' After Ignoring 'Problem She Created' For 3 Years

Biden Backs Israel's Assassination Of Nasrallah

Why is Putin's back against the wall?

First Lady Melania Trump's Full Interview on Fox & Friends

Online site tells you how much Kamala Harris presidency will cost you

Trump's Best Kamala Ad

US warships under attack in Red Sea as 'barrage' of Houthi missiles rain down

Biden and Harris to Offer $153 Million in Awards for States That Adopt Pre-Crime Gun Confiscation Laws

Taxpayer-funded Minneapolis food pantry bans white people

Another Gulf Hurricane for Sunday Oct 6. Same Area as Helene

Lebanon Will Make Israel Regret Its Actions, Iran's Supreme Leader Warns

54 People Rescued from Roof of Hospital in Tennessee Due to Flood Caused by Hurricane Helene

Germany faces economic DISASTER, as Social Democrats drive country into the ground

Warning! Biggest Silver Short Position Recorded - Ed Steer Silver Price Prediction

Kroger was pretty slim pickin's today

Kunstler: America Is "A Headless Horseman Riding Blindly Into Chaos"

Ohio Dem Senator To Hold Event With Group Pushing To Close States Largest Coal Plant

Kamala Harris campaign’s internal polls reveal devastating losses in Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona.

Kamala Harris campaign’s internal polls reveal devastating losses in Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona.

Sea Port STRIKES Happening October 1st!! (We KNEW IT!!!) | Buddy Brown

NYC Mayor Eric Adams Claims He's Being Targeted by Biden for Defending New Yorkers Against Illegal Aliens

What are Israel's goals in Lebanon?

Israeli military build-up near the Lebanese border.

Human remains found at McDonald’s meat supplier by the FBI.

Kamala was caught using actors pretending to be ex-Trump supporters in her ads!

Venezuelan Gang Infiltrates Migrant Shelters to Build Criminal Empire in NYC

Are US Troops Combat Ready for Israel?

Now that's an edit - Russian Power

Shirley Temple On How Hollywood Is Run by Pedophiles


Neocon Nuttery
See other Neocon Nuttery Articles

Title: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles
Source: Yahoo - AP
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815 ... e_eu/russia_us_missile_defense
Published: Aug 15, 2008
Author: JIM HEINTZ
Post Date: 2008-08-15 13:51:07 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 1753
Comments: 90

1 hour, 2 minutes ago

MOSCOW - A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

The statement by Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn is the strongest threat that Russia has issued against the plans to put missile defense elements in former Soviet satellite nations.

Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.

He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.

At a news conference earlier Friday, Nogovitsyn had reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile-defense elements in Poland and the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But his subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up a war of words.

U.S. officials have said the timing of the deal was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders at a time when relations already are strained over the recent fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.

Russian forces went deep into Georgia in the fighting, raising wide concerns that Russia could be seeking to occupy parts of its small, pro-U.S. neighbor, which has vigorously lobbied to join NATO, or even to force its government to collapse.

"I think the Russian behavior over the last several days is generally concerning not only to the United States but to all of our European allies," said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman, when asked about Russian threats against Poland as a result of the missile defense agreement.

He also suggested that earlier U.S. offers for broad cooperation with Moscow on the missile defense program may be reevaluated considering the latest developments.

Under the agreement that Warsaw and Washington reached Thursday, Poland will accept an American missile interceptor base.

Washington says the planned system, which is not yet operational, is needed to protect the U.S. and Europe from possible attacks by missile-armed "rogue states" like Iran. The Kremlin, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force and warns it will worsen tensions.

In an interview on Poland's news channel TVN24, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the United States agreed to help augment Poland's defenses with Patriot missiles in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors in the Eastern European country.

He said the deal also includes a "mutual commitment" between the two nations to come to each other's assistance "in case of trouble."

That clause appeared to be a direct reference to Russia.

Poland has all along been guided by fears of a newly resurgent Russia, an anxiety that has intensified with Russia's offensive in Georgia. In past days, Polish leaders said that fighting justified Poland's demands that it get additional security guarantees from Washington in exchange for allowing the anti-missile base on its soil.

"Simply the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Friday.

___

Associated Press writers Lolita C. Baldor in Washington and Vanessa Gera in Warsaw, Poland contributed to this report.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 84.

#17. To: Rotara (#0)

"Simply the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Friday.

Of course it increases their security. It also unfortunately makes them much more dependent on the USA for protection. It's not good to be dependent on any foreign nation for any thing.

RickyJ  posted on  2008-08-15   14:36:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: RickyJ (#17)

Of course it increases their security. It also unfortunately makes them much more dependent on the USA for protection. It's not good to be dependent on any foreign nation for any thing.

Entangling alliance. ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-15   16:11:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Rotara (#25)

Russia has been at Polands throat for centuries.

The last time with Stalin and Hitler.

" * The First Partition: August 5, 1772. * The Second Partition: January 23, 1793 (in which Austria did not participate). * The Third Partition: October 24, 1795.

The less often used term "Fourth Partition of Poland" may refer to any subsequent division of Polish lands, specifically:

* after the Napoleonic Era, the 1815 division of the Duchy of Warsaw at the Congress of Vienna; * the 1832 incorporation of the "Congress Kingdom" into Russia, and the 1846 incorporation of the Republic of Kraków into Austria; and * the 1939 division of Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union pursuant to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.[4]

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-15   20:52:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Cynicom (#28)

Russia has been at Polands throat for centuries.

I think there are a number of reasons for this and it's not just Poland, it's also the Ukraine that Russia has always tried to get under its thumb, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. But there has always been tension with those 3 countries.

1. Both Poland and the Ukraine represent important geo-political buffer states to Mother Russia that an invading army needs to cross to get at Russia so Russia would like to have both nations under its sphere of influence to keep a watchful eye on the leanings/loyalties of the Poles and Ukies so they don't engage in treachery and offer a back door easy access to Russia.

2. Poland and the Ukraine offer Russia ice free seaports for trade and commerce with European nations and for Russia's navy for defense purposes.

3. Poland and the Ukraine have always been culturally and intellectually advanced because of their proximity to European nations like Austria Germany the Netherlands and Scandanavia. Poles and Ukrainians offer Russia an educated and highly trainable pool of subjects to subjugate if necessary.

4. Poland and the Ukraine had land and climate that made them the agricultural bread baskets of Eastern Europe and since much of Russia's terrain and climate were not as hospitable to farming, Poland and the Ukraine were assets for providing food to Russian peoples.

5. Both Poland and the Ukraine have always been fervently nationalistic and if these 2 nations could be put under Russia's thumb, they would serve as object studies to other Eastern European nations who were less populous annd who had less of an innate independent drive or nature - "See, if the Poles and Ukies were thwarted in their efforts to separate from Russia's long hand, what chance do you folks in Estonia or Belarus or Czech Republic have?"

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-15   21:52:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: scrapper2 (#32)

and it's not just Poland,

Russia did not become the worlds largest nation as a gift from God like some other people. They took it by force, threat and intimidation.

Two things come to mind on that subject...

During our Civil War, Russia was meddling, in that by sending a fleet here in support of the North.

The Russians in the 1930s had plans of going to the English channel. That is why they pushed and aided Hitler to move WEST first, in hopes he would be so weakened they could attack from behind and march to the channel. When the West caved in weeks, Stalin knew he was next.

I have zero sympathy for the Russians. They are friends to no one.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-15   22:00:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Cynicom (#34)

I have zero sympathy for the Russians. They are friends to no one.

I did not cite reasons for why Russia has been trying to keep Poland and the Ukraine under its thumb as a matter of being sympathetic to Russia. I merely gave you and others the reasons why I thought Poland and Ukraine were continually victimized by Russia. Russia's reasons are not good for Poland and the Ukraine - they are good reasons for Russia only.

Russia acts in its own interests as most countries do except for America. Since the 6 Day War, America has re-ordered its priorities. It no longer acts solely in its own interests. Since the LBJ Administration, America been acting in 2 nation's best interests - ie. Israel's and America's. Unfortunately Israel's interests are not America's best interests and in fact are the opposite of America's best interests. And that's why we are having the problems we do in the Middle East today.

Professors Mearsheimer and Walt do an excellent job in their 400 page book "The Israel Lobby" in illustrating how our gov't is putting Israel's interests first in our ME foreign policy and how America is suffering terrible consequences for that very reason. ( examples being the situation with Iraq and Iran)

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-15   22:22:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: scrapper2 (#35)

I did not cite reasons for why Russia has been trying to keep Poland and the Ukraine under its thumb as a matter of being sympathetic to Russia. I merely gave you and others the reasons why I thought Poland and Ukraine were continually victimized by Russia. Russia's reasons are not good for Poland and the Ukraine - they are good reasons for Russia only.

Russia acts in its own interests as most countries do except for America. Since the 6 Day War, America has re-ordered its priorities. It no longer acts solely in its own interests. Since the LBJ Administration, America been acting in 2 nation's best interests - ie. Israel's and America's. Unfortunately Israel's interests are not America's best interests and in fact are the opposite of America's best interests. And that's why we are having the problems we do in the Middle East today.

Professors Mearsheimer and Walt do an excellent job in their 400 page book "The Israel Lobby" in illustrating how our gov't is putting Israel's interests first in our ME foreign policy and how America is suffering terrible consequences for that very reason. ( examples being the situation with Iraq and Iran)

We've already determined that you don't know your head from your ass when it comes to the international globalist power structure. ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-16   10:58:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Rotara, James Deffenbach, rowdee (#38)

We've already determined that you don't know your head from your ass when it comes to the international globalist power structure. ;-)

"We" is I presume "you."

And you know so much about international ggggggglobalists.

That's the depth of your political analysis - it's always one liners about ggggglobalists, ttttraitors, ttttrilateralists, and CCCCCFRers being the cause of every problem in the US and the world.

You never dissect or identify any event. You never see permutations, complexities of situations. You rarely offer insightful opinions. It's always the gggglobalists and traitors, and new world orders - those same old same old "safe" all encompassing labels you turn to.

Btw in as much as you talk about the terms have you ever gone to the library and read foreign policy magazines like what's published by the CFR? They do publish one btw - it's not secret at all - and its been published since the 1920's I believe. Or have you bothered to browse through reference textbooks like Axelrod's "The international encyclopedia of secret societies and fraternal orders"? Bet you haven't - I have. I actually use academic and public libraries for expanding my knowledge - do you? I suspect not.

Try wrapping your brain around this immutable fact, bucko - the US has 1000's of secret societies. They have always been and they always will be. It's not the societies that are the problem, it's the influence of certain individuals who might be in them. And these individuals - like Henry Kissinger, for example - would be influential and anti-America, regardless if they were in CFR or not.

Richard, Gere, a pretty boy light weight political dilatant is a member of CFR and he has zero influence on US foreign policy and CFR membership does not help him.

Sheldon Adelson, to my knowledge, is not a member of CFR. However Sheldon Adelson is the 3 richest man in the USA. Sheldon Adelson is a bigtime Zionist and he brings the power and influence of his riches to bear on the White House and Congressmen and Senators to promote his singular interest in life - Israel, and Adelson presses Israel's interests on our federal law makers even when Israel's interests are in conflict with America's interests.

Here's some examples of how I see individuals influencing foreign policy today.

When Sheldon Adelson calls any US President, they answer the phone no matter what they are doing, no matter what meeting they are in. If Richard Gere calls, a message is taken. If Henry Kissinger calls, more than likely the call is taken on the spot but sometimes a message is taken and a call back is done later in the day - there's not the urgency as when Adelson calls. Kissinger is a powerful man because of his personal stature in politics and his contacts with powerful people like Adelson, some of whom he has met through his CFR membership but many whom he has met outside CFR.

Times have changed and especially so the past 10-15 years. Power and influence in world political affairs have been re-configured to accomodate the amazing personal wealth accumulated by a handful of very very rich individuals in the world.

CFR is a powerful organization - absolutely - but is its influence as great today as it was during the 30's, 40's 50's, 60's ? I would suggest to you that the answer is "no." Organizations like CFR have had to take a back seat to MONEYED INDIVIDUALS like Adelson. Look at the Forbes list of billionaires - those are the people who rule Presidents, Kings, and Queens. And they don't need no CFR membership to give them the clout they have today.

You don't have to agree with my opinions. Frankly I could care less what a shallow intellect like youself thinks of my opinions.

I have opinions because I analyze. And I take the time and energy to support my opinions. You have no opinions. You do not analyze. You have only safe labels.

So for a person like you to be critical of me and my knowledge of foreign affairs is beyond laughable. Stuff it where the sun don't shine, rotorooter.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-16   12:44:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: scrapper2 (#41)

So for a person like you to be critical of me and my knowledge of foreign affairs is beyond laughable.

You are beyond laughable. You're an old school joke who's obsessed with everything BUT our solution.

You running around telling people what YOU think reality is and YOU don't even know what the CFR's (and I'm sure the Trilateralists or the Bilderberg Society or any of the others) mission statement is.

You're an idiot.

And a NAZI.

Now run along, there's a secular jew under your bed waiting to get you.

Better go kill him. Ya dumb beotch. ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-16   12:57:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Rotara, Christine, scrapper2 (#42)

And a NAZI.

Now run along, there's a secular jew under your bed waiting to get you.

Better go kill him. Ya dumb beotch. ;-)

This bullshit is totally uncalled for. Grow up, please, for the sake of this forum.

Scrapper is one of the best posters the forum has because she does her homework on various topics and issues.....it isn't just 'blather' or 'bleating'. Certainly not the same old, same old.

You don't have to agree with her, or anyone else, for that matter, but you should at least be civil.

If you think she is so far off base, why not back up YOUR contentions with the same degree of information that she posts?

rowdee  posted on  2008-08-16   17:22:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: rowdee (#45)

Scrapper is one of the best posters the forum has because she does her homework on various topics and issues

LOL - now THAT is a good one!!! ;-)

Rotara  posted on  2008-08-16   18:02:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Rotara, rowdee, Scrapper2 (#46)

You don't have to agree with her, or anyone else, for that matter, but you should at least be civil.

With that I must agree. Your ungentlemanly behavior toward Scrapper is something I find inexplicable. I understand that tempers do become frayed and a forum is not always run by Marquis De Queensbury rules, but there has to be a reason for your "Brass Knuckle" behavior as it was out of place given what Scrapper had to say - agree or disagree.

What has she done or said that has you so fired up?

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-17   0:35:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Original_Intent, scrapper2, Rotara (#48) (Edited)

With that I must agree. Your ungentlemanly behavior toward Scrapper is something I find inexplicable.

I was paying attention from the start. For what it's worth, in my opinion Rotara is one of the good guys, but although I understand it, I agree that the behavior is very ungentlemanly...

Edit: ...and uncalled for.

wudidiz  posted on  2008-08-17   15:47:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: wudidiz, Rotara (#49)

For what it's worth, in my opinion Rotara is one of the good guys

I agree. And I like your tagline, the quote by Herbert Spencer. I used to use that one myself on another board.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-08-18   0:36:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: James Deffenbach, wudidiz, Rotara, scrapper2, original_Intent (#69)

For what it's worth, in my opinion Rotara is one of the good guys

I agree.

Rotara is one of the good guys.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-08-18   2:41:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: TwentyTwelve, James Deffenbach, wudidiz, Rotara, original_Intent, buckeye (#74) (Edited)

Rotara is one of the good guys.

Why?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-18   2:43:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: scrapper2, Rotara, christine, TwentyTwelve, James Deffenbach, wudidiz (#75)

Rotara is one of the good guys.

Why?

For what is worth I count both of you among the "good guys". Harsh words have been exchanged, and yet despite your differences both of you operate from good motives and wish well for others.

That being a given I would most desire that you both communicate and exchange common ground without acrimony, however tempting that might be, and reach a settlement founded upon mutual respect. Disagreements may well still exist, but I see no reason, other than backing yourselves each into a respective corner, why the both of you cannot find common ground and discuss your disagreements without self defeating mutual assaults.

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-18   13:19:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Original_Intent, Rotara, buckeye, christine, Cynicom, wudidiz (#77) (Edited)

That being a given I would most desire that you both communicate and exchange common ground without acrimony, however tempting that might be, and reach a settlement founded upon mutual respect

I can be civil with Rotara but civility is difficult to maintain when coarse and hateful insults are hurled at me [ come on, being called a baby butcher, a Nazi, a Jew hater is way way way over the top] and/or having my political positions mis-construed even going as far as taking my net name and associating words with my net name that I have never ever stated or would even ever entertain agreeing with.

But I will be civil when conditions permit - I did not mean to have Rotara-scrapper threads dominating the 4um discussions, it happened as a matter of course defending myself against irrational animosity that came out of the blue and was clearly stated by Rotara last Sunday afternoon - to whit something in the manner of: "I don't care for you very much in case you have not realized it". Then it accelerated that evening after buckeye revealed that Rotara's was an End Timer - it was after that precise moment in time that Rotara went nuts, cussing buck and me - at that point I did fight back and most vociferously, you bet, and the first thing I did was pull Rotara's chain on his religion - hey, Rotara invited me to do so when he had his hissy fit with buck and me, lacing his insults with Biblical scripture and referring to buck and me as Monsters, who were in league with the anti-Christers. Screw that - Rotara himself made his religious bent as fair game in debate. Then everything exploded from that night over the course of last week.

I provide you with the scenario only to help you see better that I was civil to Rotara in the past and vice versa - there were no clashes until last Sunday afternoon when Rotara advised me of his latent animosity - a rather bizarre confession, would you not agree? I never was aware of Rotara's long standing - or so it would appear - animosity towards me. Seriously.

A civil discourse footing I will definitely attempt to regain with Rotara. Mutual respect - why is that necessary for civility to be observed? I could care less if Rotara respects me or my opinions - he only needs to conduct himself in a civil fashion, that's all, and I will conduct myself accordingly.

So if you want civil discourse to happen again between the Rotara and myself, OI, I respectfully suggest that you need to double up your advice efforts about temperance and civility to the person who first threw the gauntlet down out of the blue and who accelerated the hostilities with hurling bizarre and irrational and frankly hateful insults of Monster, anti-Christ, Nazi, antisemite etc.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-18   14:50:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: scrapper2, Rotara (#83)

A civil discourse footing I will definitely attempt to regain with Rotara.

Sounds very good for the forum. I'd think it would mean more ideas being exchanged.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-18   18:50:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 84.

        There are no replies to Comment # 84.


End Trace Mode for Comment # 84.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]