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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Are You Ready For Nuclear War?
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.infowars.com/?p=4036
Published: Aug 19, 2008
Author: Paul Craig Roberts
Post Date: 2008-08-20 11:55:19 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 796
Comments: 64

Pervez Musharraf, the puppet installed by the US to rule Pakistan in the interest of US hegemony, resigned August 18 to avoid impeachment. Karl Rove and the Diebold electronic voting machines were unable to control the result of the last election in Pakistan, the result of which gave Pakistanis a bigger voice in their government than America’s.

It was obvious to anyone with any sense—which excludes the entire Bush Regime and almost all of the "foreign policy community"—that the illegal and gratuitous US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and Israel’s 2006 bombing of Lebanon civilians with US blessing, would result in the overthrow of America’s Pakistani puppet.

The imbecilic Bush Regime ensured Musharraf’s overthrow by pressuring their puppet to conduct military operations against tribesmen in Pakistani border areas, whose loyalties were to fellow Muslims and not to American hegemony. When Musharraf’s military operations didn’t produce the desired result, the idiotic Americans began conducting their own military operations within Pakistan with bombs and missiles. This finished off Musharraf.

When the Bush Regime began its wars in the Middle East, I predicted, correctly, that Musharraf would be one victim. The American puppets in Egypt and Jordan may be the next to go.

Back during the Nixon years, my Ph.D. dissertation chairman, Warren Nutter, was Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs. One day in his Pentagon office I asked him how the US government got foreign governments to do what the US wanted. "Money," he replied.

"You mean foreign aid?" I asked.

"No," he replied, "we just buy the leaders with money."

It wasn’t a policy he had implemented. He inherited it and, although the policy rankled with him, he could do nothing about it. Nutter believed in persuasion and that if you could not persuade people, you did not have a policy.

Nutter did not mean merely third world potentates were bought. He meant the leaders of England, France, Germany, Italy, all the allies everywhere were bought and paid for.

They were allies because they were paid. Consider Tony Blair. Blair’s own head of British intelligence told him that the Americans were fabricating the evidence to justify their already planned attack on Iraq. This was fine with Blair, and you can see why with his multi- million dollar payoff once he was out of office.

The American-educated thug, Saakashkvili the War Criminal, who is president of Georgia, was installed by the US taxpayer funded National Endowment for Democracy, a neocon operation whose purpose is to ring Russia with US military bases, so that America can exert hegemony over Russia.

Every agreement that President Reagan made with Mikhail Gorbachev has been broken by Reagan’s successors. Reagan’s was the last American government whose foreign policy was not made by the Israeli-allied neoconservatives. During the Reagan years, the neocons made several runs at it, but each ended in disaster for Reagan, and he eventually drove the modern day French Jacobins from his government.

Even the anti-Soviet Committee on the Present Danger regarded the neocons as dangerous lunatics. I remember the meeting when a member tried to bring the neocons into the committee, and old line American establishment representatives, such as former Treasury Secretary Douglas Dillon, hit the roof.

The Committee on the Present Danger regarded the neocons as crazy people who would get America into a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. The neocons hated President Reagan, because he ended the cold war with diplomacy, when they desired a military victory over the Soviet Union.

Deprived of this, the neocons now want victory over Russia.

Today, Reagan is gone. The Republican Establishment is gone. There are no conservative power centers, only neoconservative power centers closely allied with Israel, which uses the billions of dollars funneled into Israeli coffers by US taxpayers to influence US elections and foreign policy.

The Republican candidate for president is a warmonger. There are no checks remaining in the Republican Party on the neocons’ proclivity for war. What Republican constituencies oppose war? Can anyone name one?

The Democrats are not much better, but they have some constituencies that are not enamored of war in order to establish US world hegemony. The Rapture Evangelicals, who fervently desire Armageddon, are not Democrats; nor are the brainwashed Brownshirts desperate to vent their frustrations by striking at someone, somewhere, anywhere.

I get emails from these Brownshirts and attest that their hate-filled ignorance is extraordinary. They are all Republicans, and yet they think they are conservatives. They have no idea who I am, but since I criticize the Bush Regime and America’s belligerent foreign policy, they think I am a "liberal commie pinko."

The only literate sentence this legion of imbeciles has ever managed is: "If you hate America so much, why don’t you move to Cuba!"

Such is the current state of a Reagan political appointee in today’s Republican Party. He is a "liberal commie pinko" who should move to Cuba.

The Republicans will get us into more wars. Indeed, they live for war. McCain is preaching war for 100 years. For these warmongers, it is like cheering for your home team. Win at all costs. They get a vicarious pleasure out of war. If the US has to tell lies in order to attack countries, what’s wrong with that? "If we don’t kill them over there, they will kill us over here."

The mindlessness is total.

Nothing real issues from the American media. The media is about demonizing Russia and Iran, about the vice presidential choices as if it matters, about whether Obama being on vacation let McCain score too many points.

The mindlessness of the news reflects the mindlessness of the government, for which it is a spokesperson.

The American media does not serve American democracy or American interests. It serves the few people who exercise power.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, the US and Israel made a run at controlling Russia and the former constituent parts of its empire. For awhile the US and Israel succeeded, but Putin put a stop to it.

Recognizing that the US had no intention of keeping any of the agreements it had made with Gorbachev, Putin directed the Russian military budget to upgrading the Russian nuclear deterrent. Consequently, the Russian army and air force lack the smart weapons and electronics of the US military.

When the Russian army went into Georgia to rescue the Russians in South Ossetia from the destruction being inflicted upon them by the American puppet Saakashvili, the Russians made it clear that if they were opposed by American troops with smart weapons, they would deal with the threat with tactical nuclear weapons.

The Americans were the first to announce preemptive nuclear attack as their permissible war doctrine. Now the Russians have announced the tactical use of nuclear weapons as their response to American smart weapons.

It is obvious that American foreign policy, with is goal of ringing Russia with US military bases, is leading directly to nuclear war. Every American needs to realize this fact. The US government’s insane hegemonic foreign policy is a direct threat to life on the planet.

Russia has made no threats against America. The post-Soviet Russian government has sought to cooperate with the US and Europe. Russia has made it clear over and over that it is prepared to obey international law and treaties. It is the Americans who have thrown international law and treaties into the trash can, not the Russians.

In order to keep the billions of dollars in profits flowing to its contributors in the US military-security complex, the Bush Regime has rekindled the cold war. As American living standards decline and the prospects for university graduates deteriorate, "our" leaders in Washington commit us to a hundred years of war.

If you desire to be poor, oppressed, and eventually vaporized in a nuclear war, vote Republican.


Poster Comment:

PCR continues to ignore the democrat's complicity in the current war(s) and wars of the past.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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#1. To: christine (#0) (Edited)

I don't think he is in favor of the Democrats, but it is harder for the Democrats to get away with warmongering. I think PCR is only looking for a way to avert nuclear war, just as he said.

I recall Republicans, en masse and for the first time ever in my memory, being "anti-war" when Clinton proposed to bomb Serbia nearly 10 years ago.

Democrats on the other hand can only wring their hands and offer "support the troops and bombs" mantras whenever Republicans start wars. They can't risk as being seen as "weak" on "national (i.e., imperial) security."

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-08-20   12:12:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine (#0)

PCR continues to ignore the democrat's complicity in the current war(s) and wars of the past.

He wants revenge.

Howard Dean said “If you look at folks of color, even women, they’re more successful in the Democratic party than they are in the white, uh, excuse me, in, uh, Republican party.”

All-in-all, wasn't the McCain campaign right to pounce on that?

Tauzero  posted on  2008-08-20   12:17:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Sam Houston (#1)

QUICK REVIEW OF HISTORY Democrats are the war party

The accepted wisdom is that Republicans are more likely to use force early on to protect our country, while Democrats are disposed to prefer to stick with diplomacy as long as possible. The inference, reflected in public opinion polls, is that Republicans are more to be trusted in matters of national security because they will aggressively and quickly respond to threats, real or perceived. As often happens, the accepted wisdom has it absolutely backward.

A quick review of history shows that Democrats are the war party and, not infrequently, Republicans have used diplomacy to end fighting on not always glorious terms.

Start with the War of 1812, a war which, arguably, was unnecessary and surely unpopular in many parts of the country, especially in New England. The president was James Madison, who, with Thomas Jefferson, was a founder of the Democratic-Republican Party, which evolved into the Democratic Party. Madison was an enthusiastic proponent of the war.

Gen. Andrew Jackson became a national hero as the American commander at the battle of New Orleans, which was fought some weeks after the peace treaty had been signed but before word reached the United States.

Jackson, a Democrat, was not a wartime president, but he was the most influential figure in securing the nomination and election of Democrat James Polk, whom he favored because Polk was the candidate most vocal in support of going to war with Mexico.

Polk did not disappoint. With the nation in an expansionist mood, and a rapidly Anglicizing Texas anxious to break free of Mexican rule, Polk was in step with public opinion when he led us into the Mexican-American war.

Ulysses Grant, who fought heroically as a junior officer, wrote in his memoirs that the war with Mexico was "one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation."

Abraham Lincoln, then a representative from Illinois, voted against the declaration of war. Later he became our first Republican president and led us through the Civil War, which saved the republic and freed the slaves, and which was (counting casualties on both sides) the bloodiest in our history.

Grant became our top general in that war and defeated the rebel armies in a series of some of the bloodiest battles ever fought on this continent. He was elected president and served for eight years when we were at peace with everybody except our native Indians.

On to 1898. Cubans were revolting against Spain. With the country in an expansionist mood, there was a lot of support for going to war with Spain. Republican President William McKinley was opposed. But after the battleship Maine blew up in Havana Harbor, newspaper publisher William Randolph Hearst stirred the public into such a froth that McKinley felt obliged to ask Congress for authority to send American troops to Cuba and soon thereafter Congress declared war on Spain.

It was a short war, resolved in our favor by two decisive naval battles, one in the Atlantic, one in the Pacific. We picked up Puerto Rico and the Philippines, and Theodore Roosevelt picked up enough publicity to set him on the road to the presidency.

Democrat Woodrow Wilson was elected president 100 years ago, ran for re- election, promising not to get involved in the deadly war raging in Europe -- a pointless war into which Europe sort of stumbled.

But, by 1916 Germany had managed by unremitting attacks on American ships to push Wilson into a position where he felt it was necessary to strike back, so we went to war, sending hundreds of thousands of Americans overseas to fight in a "war to end all wars." It didn't.

In 1941, after Pearl Harbor, another Democratic president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, quickly called for a declaration of war and sent American forces literally around the globe as we led the free world to victory in World War II.

And, in 1950, Democratic President Harry Truman responded to North Korea's invasion of South Korea by sending American land, sea and air forces into combat. Truman's successor, Republican Dwight Eisenhower, inherited the Korean War but soon ended the active fighting -- by successful diplomacy.

Democratic President John F. Kennedy faced down the Soviet Union in the Cuban missile crisis, averting a nuclear exchange, and then sent "token" forces into Vietnam, starting us down the slippery slope which took us, under Democrat Lyndon Johnson, into a long and costly and eventually extremely unpopular war. It fell to Republican President Richard Nixon to negotiate a cease-fire.

That brings us to the first Iraq war in which the first President Bush rightly and successfully responded, with the backing of most of the rest of the world, to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

And the second Iraq war in which the second President Bush, Republican, wrongly and disastrously responded to his gut feeling and started a five-year war he will bequeath to his successor.

After the Civil War, Republican presidents took us into no wars absolutely essential to protect the nation. Democrats took us, arguably, into two that were necessary and two that were questionable.

So, which party is most likely to quickly resort to force in matters of national security? It's not necessarily a reputation to be desired.

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-08-20   12:32:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#3)

Later he became our first Republican president and led us through the Civil War, which saved the republic and freed the slaves,

Nonsense.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   12:37:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Cynicom (#4)

agree. my aim was to show that democrat admins have started as many if not more wars than republican admins. perhaps, you can find a better one?

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-08-20   12:43:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: christine (#3)

The trouble with this example is that in the 19th and early 20th centuries, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans had much in common with the Democrats and Republicans today. They either espoused opposite views or were debating issues that are not relevant, or at least not talked much about, today.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-08-20   12:45:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: christine (#5)

my aim was to show that democrat admins have started as many if not more wars than republican admins. perhaps, you can find a better one?

I knew the point you were making, Amen.

What I nonsensed was so egregious it needed exposing.

America LOST the civil War.

Big government won the Civil War.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   12:46:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine, swarthy guy (#0)

Reagan’s was the last American government whose foreign policy was not made by the Israeli-allied neoconservatives. During the Reagan years, the neocons made several runs at it, but each ended in disaster for Reagan, and he eventually drove the modern day French Jacobins from his government.

PCR appears to be an anti-semite. He hates Israel and Jews. You can tell this because of the secret code he uses - I'll give you the tip off - when PCR blames the "Israeli-allied neoconservatives" for America's "disasterous foreign policy," really what PCR is saying - subliminally sort of - is that Jews are responsible for all the world's problems.

You see, I was taught by very savvy code decipherers on how to read into what people say to understand what the hidden unsaid message is. I hope to become a code breaker, myself, in the future once I get more lessons on ciphers and stuff under my belt.

Frankly christine I'm shocked that you would even consider posting such an eeeeevil article like this PCR one on foreign policy. But it's probably because you were naive [ I was once naive like you, too] enough to believe that PCR meant what he stated. You, christine, are in desperate need of code lessons so you learn to read the secret hidden messages in what people say. It will change your life. Some of your friends and family may think you're getting paranoid when you start doing code breaking, but that is a minor drawback. No worries.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-20   12:56:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Rupert_Pupkin, christine (#6)

Imagine, in the early 1900's, the Democrats were the sound money party, and were against the establishment of the Federal Reserve!

The way I see it, we have, as a whole, become more belligerent and war loving since the end of the Vietnam War. It's been a completely bi-partisan effort, with party being irrelevant. The only consistent thing seems to be that the other party supports wars by its president more than by the other party's, but McInsane was loudly supportive of the Kosovo war (though, like the situation with his advisor and Georgia, I think there was a lobbying effort that might have colored his perceptions a bit), and some Democrats have supported Bush's wars.

I don't see this trend decreasing until:

1.We run out of money to embark upon stupid wars of choice,

2.Congress finds its collective will that they've checked at the door of the Capitol for years,

3.Some foreign power or collection of foreign powers makes us stop.

Of the three scenarios, I think #2 is the best, and therefore least likely. Whether we get #1 or #3 is probably a toss up, though I would expect #3 if we get McCain is more likely, and #1 is more likely under Obama. When you hear someone say that even though prices are rising so fast, they're printing money as fast as they can to keep up, we can all know that #1 has arrived.

Rivers of blood were spilled out over land that, in normal times, not even the poorest Arab would have worried his head over." Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

historian1944  posted on  2008-08-20   13:25:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: historian1944 (#9)

The way I see it, we have, as a whole, become more belligerent and war loving since the end of the Vietnam War. It's been a completely bi-partisan effort, with party being irrelevant. The only consistent thing seems to be that the other party supports wars by its president more than by the other party's

yes, i agree. both parties know and adhere to the 'War is the Health of the State' philosophy.

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-08-20   13:45:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Cynicom (#7)

Now I will Amen to that...and I don't AMEN! LMAO!

texaslvr77  posted on  2008-08-20   15:00:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: scrapper2 (#8)

It's funny how the word semite has come to mean Jewish exclusively.

Really, Arabs are Semites too.

But that's what you have when guilt over WW2 combined with political clout gets you. It's called reality and a fact of life. Deal with it.

Anyway, I like PCR and think he's often correct, always interesting to read but Neconism or Vulcanism, would have gone nowhere without strong support from influential WASPy guys like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bolton and the like.

Focusing and harping on Zionist influence is counterproductive; if you feel it needs diminishing, then work on the essential philosophy behind it, rather than the religiouspolitical POV of some of the major players.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-08-20   15:54:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: swarthyguy (#12)

a. Anyway, I like PCR and think he's often correct, always interesting to read but Neconism or Vulcanism, would have gone nowhere without strong support from influential WASPy guys like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bolton and the like.

b. It's funny how the word semite has come to mean Jewish exclusively. Really, Arabs are Semites too.

c. But that's what you have when guilt over WW2 combined with political clout gets you. It's called reality and a fact of life. Deal with it.

a. Fyi, the same WASPy guys you named - Cheney Rumsfeld Bolton - were kicking around the Beltway or even occupying cabinet positions at the time of the Reagan Administration but as PCR indicates there was no flourishing Israel-focused foreign policy in place. The afore-mentioned WASPy guys were considered realists, in fact.

PCR states:

"Reagan’s was the last American government whose foreign policy was not made by the Israeli-allied neoconservatives. During the Reagan years, the neocons made several runs at it, but each ended in disaster for Reagan, and he eventually drove the modern day French Jacobins from his government."

***So you tell me what has changed in the equation to cause the Reagan era WASPy realist guys to turn into IsraelFirster warhawk neoconservatives.***

b. So who was responsible for copyrighting the word "semite" and then promoting the word - and wrongly so - to mean Jews? Was it the Arabs did it?

***Yes, absolutely there millions more Semite Arabs than there Semite Jews. Only a small minority of Jews are Sephardic Jews, who are true Semites like the Arabs are.****

c. ***I think you need to read "The Holocaust Industry" authored by Dr. Norman Finkelstein before you can talk in an informed fashion about how guilt over WWII and IsraelFirst influence came about in the USA.***

Fyi,the USA had zero to do with the Holocaust - it was a European caused and European located event. American soldiers actually helped stop the evil inflicted against 6 Million Jews and 12 Million non-Jewish persons who were all victimized in the Nazii prison camps. The Americans were the "good guys" in WWII - America had no cause for guilt.

And actually according to Dr. Finkelstein, the liberated WWII Jews did not promote guilt at the time because they recognized that they were not the only victims of Nazii prison camps. They just wanted to get on with their lives.

But Dr. Finkelstein states that it was only after the 6 Day War that the Zionists figured out that they could use to their advantage the world's sympathy for Israel at the time in the late 1960's and link this sympathy to the Holocaust of the 1940's. Voilà! The Holocaust Industry was born! Guilt became the Golden Goose gift for Zionists that kept on giving in terms of foreign aid from the US that was then recycled stateside to Israel advocacy lobby groups for their use in "influence" peddling in Capitol Hill.

Let's be clear on this - the Holocaust Industry guilt consciously created by the Zionists 30 years after the Holocaust occurred was for the sole benefit of Israel and Zionism, not for the benefit of Jews at large and not for the benefit of Judaism.

This fact, as researched by Dr. Finkelstein whose own parents were victimized by the Holocaust, is what you need to become better educated on and eventually come to acknowledge.

So I say back at you, swarthy guy, "It's called reality and a fact of life. Deal with it."

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-20   17:02:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: christine, lodwick (#0)

EJS email alert

www.ConspiracyPenPal.com

We have had an overwhelming number of requests for links to archived recordings of the recent Internet Radio discussions between Edgar J. Steele and 2004 Libertarian Party Presidential candidate Michael Badnarik about impending World War III.

Go here for the August 15 show: http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/audio/ badnarik80815.m3u

Here is the August 18 show: http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/audio/ badnarik80818.m3u

Each show is two hours long and has been archived at my own server, though Michael Badnarik's server now has properly-working archival copies, too. I hope you find them both entertaining and informative.

-ed

"Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2008-08-20   17:15:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Eoghan (#14)

hey there, Eoghan. how're you doin'?

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-08-20   17:22:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Eoghan (#14)

Thanks for the ping - good to see'ya here.

Lod  posted on  2008-08-20   17:28:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Eoghan (#14)

Go here for the August 15 show: http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/audio/badnarik80815.m3u

Here is the August 18 show: http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/audio/badnarik80818.m3u

Spaces removed from links and made hot.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-20   18:15:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Cynicom (#17)

www.conspiracypenpal.com/audio/badnarik80815.m3u

54 minutes in: Putin fighting Zionism, is a good guy, Russia not under control of the communists. Your opinion doesn't change, does it?

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-20   20:07:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: buckeye (#18)

Yesterday I was reading some article that ties the current owners of Russia back to the families of the original Bolsheviks.

Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   20:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Cynicom (#19)

Did you post it, good sir?

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-20   20:18:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: buckeye (#20)

No.

Most people here have no interest in such. Russia is Russia, regardless of whom is in charge. They are not a benevolent people. Solzhenitsyn wrote of the cruelty inflicted by Russians upon Russians.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   20:24:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Cynicom (#21)

A link to the article would be interesting to me, as your opinions are at odds with the polar ends of the crowds here and over at war central.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-20   20:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: buckeye (#22)

If I can find it, I will post to you.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   20:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Cynicom (#21)

Russia is Russia, regardless of whom is in charge. They are not a benevolent people. Solzhenitsyn wrote of the cruelty inflicted by Russians upon Russians.

Well that's a grand sort of generalization you're making there, cyni. If you may recall, Russia got clubbed from behind by a rather large and sinister and long lived political/economic philosophy called Communism. The Chinese Communists did the same to their brethren. It's Communism that is innately blood thirsty and cruel not the Russian nationals. All through history when an extremist political theory or a ruling social class takes over a nation, evil thrives. Look at France and the Jacobins'Reign of Terror. Consider what havoc and cruelty Fascism inflicted on the Germans. And there was the UK with its own form of cruelty doled out for centuries to the peasant class by royalty and nobility.

I don't view internecine violence of one class of nationals perpetuated against their fellow countrymen as being unique to Russia or to Russians.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-20   20:54:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: scrapper2 (#24)

What's your opinion of why the Russians succumbed to the Bolsheviks?

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-20   21:01:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: lodwick, Jethro Tull (#17)

www.conspiracypenpal.com/audio/badnarik80818.m3u

About 54 minutes in: vet calls in and tells Edgar that the opinion of Marine lance corporals is important, and why.

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-20   21:08:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: scrapper2 (#24)

Generalization???

For sure..

Russia became Russia, the largest country in the world by one method, aggression over hundreds of years, regardless of who was in charge.

One day Russia will regain all of their lost provinces that followed the Soviet breakup. Grieving for Russia is foolhardy. They endure us on their doorstep for a reason, CHINA. They bluff, bluster, kill people but the last thing they want is for the US to withdraw to the American continent.

The other members of NATO are a hollow shell, Russia knows that, only the US is a counter balance to China.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   21:10:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: buckeye (#22)

Is war central a different site from fr?

Lod  posted on  2008-08-20   21:14:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: lodwick (#28)

LP

buckeye  posted on  2008-08-20   21:16:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: buckeye (#29)

OK - thanks.

(I can't go there - most posters are insane.)

Lod  posted on  2008-08-20   21:20:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: buckeye, historian, Original_Intent (#25)

What's your opinion of why the Russians succumbed to the Bolsheviks?

Wow you don't believe in starting small and working your way up the ladder of intellectual challenges - I'll need an hour or 2 to formulate my thoughts as an informed response to your juicy question - perhaps we should ping Mr. historian to give us his valued input - I don't know his exact net name, do you? Definitely OI would be a good world history resource so I'd like to hear his opinions too.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-20   21:23:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: scrapper2, buckeye (#31)

I'll need an hour or 2 to formulate my thoughts as an informed response to your juicy question

Start out as to how we financed the revolution. Germany managed it (Lenin was on their payroll) and how we "invaded" Russia to make sure the communists won.

Its easy from there.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   21:31:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Cynicom, buckeye (#32)

Start out as to how we financed the revolution.

Indeed that's where I was going to start - in fact isn't Al Gork linked to both of the US financiers of the Bolsheviks?

There's the Al Gork Family business link to Armand Hammer:

findarticles.com/p/articl...1571/is_19_16/ai_62349851

And there's the Al Gork related by family to the other US financier of the Bolsheviks, Jacob Schiff.

"Al Gore's Jr.'s daughter Karenna Gore, was recently married to Andrew Schiff. Andrew Schiff is a descendant of Jabob Schiff"

It is a small world after all, like Mickey Mouse says.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-20   21:41:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: scrapper2 (#33)

I will await your epistle. I know you will do it justice.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-20   21:46:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: scrapper2, buckeye, historian, Cynicom (#31)

What's your opinion of why the Russians succumbed to the Bolsheviks?

Wow you don't believe in starting small and working your way up the ladder of intellectual challenges - I'll need an hour or 2 to formulate my thoughts as an informed response to your juicy question - perhaps we should ping Mr. historian to give us his valued input - I don't know his exact net name, do you? Definitely OI would be a good world history resource so I'd like to hear his opinions too.

Cyni pretty well nailed the short answer.

American interests (mostly Zionists and Rothschild toadies) on Wall Street provided the financing.

The Bolsheviks were also willing to lie and murder to get their way, and were reasonably good and thuggish at it. The Russian Democratic movement (The "White Russians") were betrayed by the failure of support for the cause. The well financed Bolsheviks were able to field better arms and were better supplied. The dominance of the Bolsheviks was further buttressed by suppression of dissent and murdering anyone who showed any backbone or potential to pull a countermovement together.

To go into more detail I would need to do some refreshing since its been a while and some of the fine points of the multiple knives in the backs are a bit hazy.

A proper summary would run to several pages - for those interested there are good references on the web if you know how to use a Search Engine.

Key terms would include: Bolshevik, Menshevik, White Russians, Czar (or Tsar), Wall Street, Rothschild, Zionist/Zionism, New York. Search results and reading would suggest more for follow up.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-21   1:34:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: historian1944 (#31)

ping to scrapper's post

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-08-21   1:54:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Original_Intent, buckeye, Cynicom, Historian (#35)

Cyni pretty well nailed the short answer.

To go into more detail I would need to do some refreshing since its been a while and some of the fine points of the multiple knives in the backs are a bit hazy.

I agree - Cyni gave buck an almost instantaneous darn good short and dirty fact sheet.

As you point out the events leading up to the Revolution and the various players from without and from within are staggering to consider.

Tsarist Russia was clubbed from behind. It had no chance to fight the treachery, the guile, and the money from outside that supported the Bolsheviks.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-21   2:01:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: scrapper2, buckeye, Cynicom, Historian, christine (#37)

Here is an online edition of Anthony Sutton's classic:

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-08-21   2:11:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Original_Intent (#38)

OI...

Thanks for the Sutton link.

I hope others here take time to at least scan it as it is an excellent read.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-21   2:29:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Original_Intent, scraper2, christine, buckeye (#38)

The one thing the Communists wanted more than anything else was recognition as a legitimate government by the United States.

They had to wait for the arrival of one of their own, Roosevelt, to obtain that.

As a side note of interest, let me pose something for your comments in return.

What other country printed and issued American money to the aggregate of "untold" millions, or billions????? I would appreciate your answers and or best guess.

Cyni...

Cynicom  posted on  2008-08-21   2:39:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Original_Intent, Cynicom (#38)

Thanks for the link, OI.

I have already noticed one challenge to a commonly held theory about a US financial supporter of the Bolsheviks ie. Jacob Schiff.

Sutton's work states "investment banker Jacob Schiff, often cited as a source of funds for the Bolshevik Revolution, was in fact against support of the Bolshevik regime."

Interesting - is Sutton right? - Schiff was not pro-Bolshevik?

scrapper2  posted on  2008-08-21   2:40:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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