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Title: WHAT'S WITH THIS GUY?
Source:
Life
URL Source: http://none
Published: Aug 27, 2008
Author: Me
Post Date: 2008-08-27 15:25:40 by iconoclast
Keywords: Division, Us vs Them, Healing
Views: 2218
Comments: 62
Ladies and gents, I feel the urge this afternoon to elaborate a bit on factors underlying my full throated, heart felt support of Barack Obama, so often scorned here. I fully realize it violates one of my favorite earthy propositions (Henry Ford II's "never apologize, never explain"). Let me first say that I fully understand a goodly amount of the revulsion at the prospect of a black President. Many of my fellow Americans and good friends have been turned off for decades by an irritating exposure to welfare queens, affirmative action, and the downward spiral of the black underclass. I feel your pain, sincerely. But if I may, and without condescension, I venture to suggest that many here are viewing the 21st century American racial scene "through a glass darkly". Let me quickly add that I also appreciate that much of the revulsion arises from the leftist philosophy that taints all Democrats. And, I have two things to say about that. One, at least the Democrats remain true to their principles as contrasted to the abysmal abandonment of anything resembling conservatism by the Republicans. Second, and I grant you this is just my opinion, Obama is a decidedly moderate left-winger. I have not come to my circa 2008 conclusions via any measure of "white guilt", a charge often made at me or about me in this forum. Also, I do not arrive at them based on some inflated impression of my own "insights". They are simply based on my own life experiences and my observation of American history. First, the experiences. I was born, and have spent almost all my life, in what has become a middle America rust-belt city .... just forty years ago it was home base for five Fortune 500 companies. It now has one(?), zero (?) .. (it's not a fun thing to watch and keep score on). GWB and his minions certainly did not solely bring this about but, again IMHO, they quite possibly have applied the a death blow to the middle class and to American industry (never mind sovereignty, solvency, and worldwide respect). This morning's paper carried a list of the ten U.S. cities with lowest median household income. Yeppers, we made it. My Dad was a UAW member, not a zealot, but one of the faceless mass that made up that association. The father of one of my best friends (Jim) in high school and college and was a Christian immigrant from Lebanon (I joked that my Dad immigrated from Tennessee). Jim's Dad and mine retired from the Chevy transmission plant in Toledo. We each got the importance of education lectured into us. Jim and I invested in a Christmas tree lot one year while we were in college. We both later started separate small businesses. He became a millionaire but died in a tragic auto accident out on Rt. 23. I emerged solvent but not wealthy from my twenty-year venture. Jim went to Catholic schools, I to public. Our community has long been ethnic blue-collar.... Poles, Germans, Hungarians, Blacks, Mexicans, Arabs and Heinz 57 varieties like me. In grade school I developed a close friendship with a Black kid from two districts away. He occasionally came all the way over to my house to play backyard basketball. Later we went to high school and he played quarterback behind me. He was killed a couple years after high school. The more things change, the more they stay the same. In that same high school I had a few black classmates in my bookish classes (tracking was well established then) but i had a random sample of the population in homeroom. gym class, etc., so I got a broad exposure. Oh sure, I had some scrapes with black kids but never enough to shake me from my conviction that there are good folk and bad apples in every grouping or class of people. In my adult years, as happenstance would have it, I made the acquaintance of a black guy in my golf league who later became my league partner (he's a lot of fun and a damned good golfer). An attorney, he also later represented me on several occasions. I have had black employees including managers and, late in my business career had the privilege of working under a an outstanding black executive .... one of the two best leaders I have personally encountered in my many working years. My kids had some black teachers, more good ones than bad (similar to the apocryphal little girl who, when she was good, was very, very good but when she was bad she was horrid ). The history part? I attribute much of the long standing racial bad blood partly to historical circumstance (a divided nation for many decades). But it's at least equally attributable to well meaning(?) but not very intelligent politicians, Number one, Lincoln. We are the only western nation on earth that resorted to a bloody internecine war to eliminate slavery. Skipping over the Klan and Jim Crow all the way to LBJ, the idiot (what is it about Texas pols?) that set integration back almost a hundred years and destroyed black family structure with his Great Society. This wonderful system of rewarding sloth and immorality brought a couple of previous decades of progress to a screeching halt and slowly but surely turned black communities into hellish social cesspools led by poverty pimps. This was followed by our long period of affirmative action that was encouraged by one party and abetted by the other. Thinking people of all hues recognize this nonsense as being as wrong-headed as other such schemes like forced housing integration and bussing to schools. Well this turned out to be a bit of a wandering diatribe but may it provide a few clues (as opposed to rationalizations) as to my populist attitudes and my chosen screen name. At any rate, as a man once said, "that's my story (or a little part of it) and I'm stickin' to it".
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#22. To: iconoclast (#17)
(Edited)
So you hide your head in the sand and ignore all of Obama's faults, just like Bush voters in 2000 ignored all of the warning signs about their candidate after "8 years of Clinton." That's what the DNC and RNC rely on. Both do pretty much the same thing, but take turns holding office by "blaming" the incumbent in the "opposing" party for doing exactly what they would have done. And voters eat it all up - thinking Bush to be an antidote to Clinton Democrats and Obama an antidote to Bush Republicans. It's all a big scam, and none of it will change until people start walking away from the two party duopoly and start taking independents seriously.
In celebration of the elections, I'm dusting off my old VCR tape of "The Prisoner" and watching the "Village" Election episode. "I am not a number, I am a free man" - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
My concern is that either the Marxist loon you support or the fascist loon that some others are supporting will be the next president. And no matter which one of them "wins," America loses. That should be the concern of all Americans.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Excellent post. It is amazing to me how otherwise intelligent people--or people who seem to be intelligent in other ways and about other things--haven't figured out yet that there is one evil bird of prey with two wings and that they can vote all they want to, but as long as they are voting for one of those wings, the flight plan ain't gonna change.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Actually I voted for the party (R)... same as I had done for the previous 36 years. Never gave a thought about pulling the (D) (I may have voted for PJB in 2000, I honestly don't remember). Most here seem to still be locked into that mindset (i.e, (R) or third party). Never again for me.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I am not a number!
Ages ago, I was lucky enough to be in Texas when a channel ran the original "Secret Agent Man" series, also starring Patrick McGoohan. Got to tape all of them. Another gem, and who couldn't love a scriptwriter named Wilfred Gatorex!
'Secret Agent' was my favorite series when it ran the first time. I also loved 'The Prisoner,' and would say it has been shown to sadly be more prophetic then I wish would be the case.
Secret Agent was before my time, but one thing I would like to do is to go to that hotel complex in Wales where the Prisoner was filmed. That list just gets longer. SA was just one intelligent TV show. Very well done. It's aged rather well.
Imagine, if you will, what our present day outcome might be had we widened path (b) That might have been nice. Glad to see you gave it a lot of thought. What should I do? Considering your fixation on a miraculous "fix" for adults, damned if I know. I take it you've never been to an AA or Al Anon meeting. I'm going to point back to education. That black executive I alluded to earlier (an educator, BTW) said the only answer to the enigma represented by the black underclass is to place all their children into residential schools (of course, it was not an idea he posted for public consumption). That's right, 365/24/7 with home visits rare and short. Before everyone has a shit fit about cost pause to consider the cost of incarcerating 30+% of young black males and the cost of mis-raising the thousands of offspring of the females compounded by their rodent-like reproductive rate ... thus recycling and perpetuating the problem.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
The only thing I see that is 'rodent-like' is you here as you verbally jerk us off with your message of theft and hatred.
Well it's not like I haven't thought about it before. It very well might have been nice. I just don't see that it has much bearing on the price of white skulls broken like eggs. Considering your fixation on a miraculous "fix" for adults, damned if I know. I have no wish to "fix" anybody. I wish to preserve my race and my culture, both of which I happen to like, and nobody else will carry forward the latter. I take it you've never been to an AA Well, my father has. If anything, it made him worse when he tried that. And the statistical aggregates show it's no more effective than self-help anyway. I'm going to point back to education. On what evidence? The heads are not improved, but Head Start is still funded. the only answer to the enigma represented by the black underclass is to place all their children into residential schools (of course, it was not an idea he posted for public consumption). That's right, 365/24/7 with home visits rare and short. Could be worth a shot. But good luck sticking to the golden rule while you carry it out.
They say they are for "diversity". What they really are for is slavery.
Never again for me. There you go. You should vote for the D because there is such a huge difference. Uh huh. Really. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. The only rule you believe in is "Do unto others before they do it unto you." And you lie and distort your claims about what that 'something' they would do to you is.
Just a quick followup. A much more humane, less direct alternative to taking children from their mothers would be to deny the franchise to the underclass. That too would be a hard sell, given the idolization of Democracy, but it would be a relatively easy sell to the underclass. It does not riot over abstract causes, precisely because it is amoral.
They say they are for "diversity". What they really are for is slavery.
Another followup. Isn't a program like that not too far off from what Oprah is attempting in South Africa? Her school seems to minimize contact with student families. From what I've read, results so far are, um, mixed. A program like that might have more success here, as the surrounding society is different.
They say they are for "diversity". What they really are for is slavery.
I wish to preserve my race and my culture Lotsa luck on the first .. I believe the second is quite doable but times a'wastin'!. Let ethnics have their festivals, dancing, and foods, we can all enjoy them as we here have been doing for years with the Poles, Hungarians, Germans, etc., and then they "melt" back into our culture. That's the limit on my multiculturalism. it's no more effective than self-help anyway. Uhh, that was my point. I'm going to point back to education. On what evidence? On the evidence I presented to you (Carver, etc.). Head Start and such is silly liberalism. the only answer to the enigma represented by the black underclass is to place all their children into residential schools (of course, it was not an idea he posted for public consumption). That's right, 365/24/7 with home visits rare and short. Could be worth a shot. But good luck sticking to the golden rule while you carry it out. It took me a while to convince myself that it could be cost effective, but I ultimately came to see it as genius. I don't think Chris was talking about herding up kids like Japanese immigrants by goons in Garth Vader garb, confiscations only when court ordered ... seems to me it might take a generation or two, but it's a plan. Re: the golden rule, I regard as applying to one on one ... the other is a bold broad plan. I make a distinction, logical or not.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
If jerking off is your thing, go to it. I presented an imaginative solution expressed to me by one of the gentlest, sharpest black men I've ever known ... and he was dead serious. The "rodent" was inserted only analogically to point to rabbits, prairie dogs, etc. that reproduce in abundance and and live in "underground ghettos". No, theft, no hatred in the proposal. Shorten your fuse.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
We are all of us of two minds on the subject, and that's really all that can be said about deontological-teleological tension. (Well, all of us except the underclass, but nevermind.)
“There’s less than 1 percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than 4 or 5 percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you’re dealing with,” -- Joe Biden, Oct. 25 2007
I wonder if this "sharp black man" you refer to ever bothered to read The Law by Frederic Bastiat. Kinda doubt it since he sounds like a socialist who would use other people's money to implement his plans and further his ideas and goals. If you still have contact with him you should do him a favor and mention that little book to him and if he doesn't want to spend any of his own money it is online and free.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. The worst administration in American history and you don't believe the situation begs for repudiation and rejection? Really James, I thought more of you. Do you like football? Go root for you favorite team. Stay away from politics.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
His goal benefits society. Really James, your obsession with "socialism" clouds your mind completely. I'm pretty sure you'd have no objection to building a new prison weekly and support the upkeep of those incarcerated indefinitely with tax payer money. But anything aimed at the root problem becomes socialism. You're locked into the prison of your own narrow mind. Ironic.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Says the man who thinks there is some huge difference in establishment whores. I don't reckon I need any of your advice but thanks anyway.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. All communists think their schemes and goals "benefit society." But they never consider the fact that their schemes and goals have to be funded by someone and it doesn't bother them that the people who are usually looked to to fund their "goals" do so only under duress. You and your friend have the right to piss away as much of your own money as you want to but no right to steal, or to ask the government to steal on your behalf, that which you have not earned.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Sell me some of what you're smoking, I'll pay top dollar no questions asked.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
LOL! I bet it is some of those magic 'shrooms like that little bear had in that movie The Bear. Did you see that? The little bear cub ate those mushrooms, it started raining and he was lying on his back, looking up at all the wild colors in the rain.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. No, happy cartoons depress me. It's like reading Milton.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Nah, it wasn't a cartoon but a movie. A good one too. Here is some info about the movie.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Mike, your bullying days are over. I sincerely hope you can make peace with that fact.
“There’s less than 1 percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than 4 or 5 percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you’re dealing with,” -- Joe Biden, Oct. 25 2007
Lost paradise...left behind
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Good music, thanks.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Explination accepted, and I'll back off. Understand thoughm the ferret as a rodent thing, and the breeding stereotype is something I have heard too often as a poster on Free republic and elsewhere. And it is really no surprise I reacted to it like I did.
Strange, but that is much of how I feel about you and your load of crap promoting and celebrating racism. I am not surprised you feel bullied, but you do it to yourself. I feel great, and you look like a clown. And that is your doing and your problem, not mine.
Should read: What's with these Guys ? [And what's with you ???] The obvious answer to the real question is that the U.S. Inc. is owned by the "federal reserve" and these two creeps are their offerings. These two represent their owners not you or me. Every election cycle it's like we lose our memory, get caught up in the "he said" / "she said" nonsense about which candidate is WORSE and think we're voting for the lesser of two evils when in fact we're chugging the Kool-Aid and become equally evil but too stupid to realize it. They (candidates) truly exist in another dimension or STATE of being than any honest people. Their dimension is one of fraud through fiction that extracts the life out of reality, turns truth into a lie and eventually transforms people into "persons" (straw-persons) so that they too can commit fraud upon their neighbors. We cannot serve two masters. We owe our existence to the Creator of the Universe not the criminals you think you are "voting" into office. By participating in the fraud you become "ONE OF THEM" and assist in the maintenance of the criminal dimension that most claim to hate. This makes you (at a minimum) a hypocrit, a thief, a liar and an accomplice to international genocide. Most of the people participating on this forum are intelligent people with good intentions. Most fear the government yet maintain it by complying with every ordinance they think threatening enough to their CONvenience. Values are rationalized and in most cases people compromise them in order to avoid confrontation with the (beast) system.
"Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its power but the truth is the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the Government of the United States." "Mr. Chairman, the people of the United States did not perceive that a world system was being set up here that the United States was to be lowered to the position of a coolie country. . and was to supply financial power to an international superstate -- a superstate controlled by international bankers and international industrialists acting together to enslave the World for their own pleasure."
All proposed solutions to "the problems of youth" would have to be racially neutral. Otherwise it don't pass muster with the "special peepul" behind the scenes. And, rich white suburban folks ain't going to allow their kids to be warehoused to help with the "other problem". If America had the political will to even discuss certain problems as inner city urban poor or "black" problems, we wouldn't be in this mess. Instead, we'll see politicians trying to take guns away from law abiding whites in order to appease The Southland Corp (7/11 Stores) and others NGOs that work to disarm us, while never having the courage to speak the truth as former NAACP President Kweisi Mfume did when he said, "Blacks cannot responsibly own firearms." And, if blacks demonstrate that they cannot peaceably assemble, then we'll have to forfeit that 1st amendment right, too.
Mike, you can hop up and down like a wigger all you want, it still won't change the facts. But what other choice do you have, when the facts don't support you? So, you have my sympathies, and my tolerance.
“There’s less than 1 percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than 4 or 5 percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you’re dealing with,” -- Joe Biden, Oct. 25 2007
I understand your reaction, Mike. I also acknowledge that my friends idea is radical but I don't think it is by it's nature Draconian (though it could be if not implemented with extreme caution). It's just that the black/white irreconcilability and the insolubility of the black underclass cycle seem to cry out for extreme measures.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Here's a radical idea re; the black 'family. Since more than 70% of the black men get in the wind upon the birth of their children (see Mr. Oooga Booga Obama), why not find them and toss their black asses in hard labor until they're capable of supporting their progeny?
I think you may have unintentionally swerved into a piece of truth there, as Lamebaugh might put it. ;-) It occurs to me that there may be more than few young people out of there of colors other than black that could profit from residential schooling. Also, nothing to prevent such from being carried out by the private sector or on a state basis as opposed to national. I wish we could hear Fr. Flanagan's opinion on the matter.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Here's another idea as long as we're tossing around radical ideas. Why not undo LBJ's zany programs and give give black men back their manhood?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
That, and declare victory in all our 'Wars:' poverty, illiteracy, drugs, crime, terror, hunger, and however many others I forgot to mention. If we want more of any problem, just have fedgov declare war on it.
A nation of idiots, ruled by tyrants.
I have no more to learn about cross purposes after 8 years of GWB
#23. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#22)
#24. To: iconoclast (#20)
Is that really your major concern at this moment in history?
Lord Acton
#25. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#22)
Lord Acton
#26. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#22)
So you hide your head in the sand and ignore all of Obama's faults, just like Bush voters in 2000 ignored all of the warning signs about their candidate after "8 years of Clinton."
#27. To: swarthyguy (#23)
--
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#28. To: Ferret Mike (#27)
#29. To: swarthyguy (#28)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#30. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
#31. To: Tauzero (#21)
#32. To: iconoclast (#31)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#33. To: iconoclast (#31)
Glad to see you gave it a lot of thought.
#34. To: iconoclast (#26)
Actually I voted for the party (R)... same as I had done for the previous 36 years. Never gave a thought about pulling the (D) (I may have voted for PJB in 2000, I honestly don't remember). Most here seem to still be locked into that mindset (i.e, (R) or third party).
Lord Acton
#35. To: Tauzero (#33)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#36. To: iconoclast (#31)
Before everyone has a shit fit about cost pause to consider the cost of incarcerating 30+% of young black males and the cost of mis-raising the thousands of offspring of the females compounded by their rodent-like reproductive rate ... thus recycling and perpetuating the problem.
#37. To: iconoclast (#31)
That black executive I alluded to earlier (an educator, BTW) said the only answer to the enigma represented by the black underclass is to place all their children into residential schools (of course, it was not an idea he posted for public consumption). That's right, 365/24/7 with home visits rare and short.
#38. To: Tauzero (#33)
#39. To: Ferret Mike (#32)
The only thing I see that is 'rodent-like' is you here as you verbally jerk us off with your message of theft and hatred.
#40. To: iconoclast (#38)
I make a distinction, logical or not.
#41. To: iconoclast (#39)
I presented an imaginative solution expressed to me by one of the gentlest, sharpest black men I've ever known ... and he was dead serious.
Lord Acton
#42. To: James Deffenbach (#34)
There you go. You should vote for the D because there is such a huge difference. Uh huh. Really.
#43. To: James Deffenbach (#41)
I wonder if this "sharp black man" you refer to ever bothered to read The Law by Frederic Bastiat. Kinda doubt it since he sounds like a socialist who would use other people's money to implement his plans and further his ideas and goals.
#44. To: iconoclast (#42)
Stay away from politics.
Lord Acton
#45. To: iconoclast (#43)
His goal benefits society.
Lord Acton
#46. To: iconoclast (#43)
His goal benefits society. Really James, your obsession with "socialism" clouds your mind completely.
#47. To: Dakmar (#46)
Lord Acton
#48. To: James Deffenbach (#47)
#49. To: Dakmar (#48)
No, happy cartoons depress me. It's like reading Milton.
Lord Acton
#50. To: Ferret Mike (#35)
#51. To: James Deffenbach (#49)
Nah, it wasn't a cartoon but a movie
#52. To: Dakmar (#51)
Lord Acton
#53. To: iconoclast (#39)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#54. To: Tauzero (#50)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#55. To: all (#0)
WHAT'S WITH THIS GUY?
#56. To: iconoclast, ferret Mike (#31)
#57. To: Ferret Mike (#54)
#58. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
And it is really no surprise I reacted to it like I did.
#59. To: iconoclast (#58)
It's just that the black/white irreconcilability and the insolubility of the black underclass cycle seem to cry out for extreme measures.
#60. To: HOUNDDAWG (#56)
All proposed solutions to "the problems of youth" would have to be racially neutral.
#61. To: Jethro Tull (#59)
Here's a radical idea re; the black 'family. Since more than 70% of the black men get in the wind upon the birth of their children (see Mr. Oooga Booga Obama), why not find them and toss their black asses in hard labor until they're capable of supporting their progeny?
#62. To: iconoclast. all (#61)
Why not undo LBJ's zany programs and give give black men back their manhood?
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