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Title: Thank Jehovah’s Witnesses for Speech Freedoms
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USA TODAY
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Published: Aug 27, 2008
Author: Tony Mauro
Post Date: 2008-08-27 22:56:19 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 621
Comments: 43
Date; 30 May, 2000 Source; USA TODAY If you have a front door, a Jehovah’s Witness probably has knocked on it. With well-dressed politeness and practiced persistence, they offer literature, biblical advice and a path to God’s kingdom as they see it. As often as not, they knock at the wrong time, when we’re too busy to listen or not particularly interested in shopping for another faith. But before you shut the door on a Jehovah’s Witness the next time, pause to consider the shameful persecution they suffered not too long ago, as well as the rich contributions they have made to the First Amendment freedoms we all enjoy. The legal clashes Jehovah’s Witnesses had with government authorities over their proselytizing and practices led to an astonishing total of 23 separate Supreme Court rulings between 1938 and 1946 – surely more than any other single religious organization engendered before or since. So frequently did Witnesses raise core First Amendment issues that Justice Harlan Riske Stone wrote, “The Jehovah’s Witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legal problems of civil liberties.” Next month will mark the 60th anniversary of the most infamous Jehovah’s Witness decision, one the Supreme Court got completely wrong: Minersville School District vs. Gobitis. The court, smitten by pre-World War II patriotic fervor, ruled it was constitutional to require Jehovah’s Witness students to violate their faith and pledge allegiance to the flag in public school. A Pennsylvania school district had expelled Lillian and William Gobitas (their last name was misspelled in court papers) because they kept their arms down during the daily flag salute. The Witnesses’ interpretation of the Bible is that saluting the flag would amount to placing another deity before God. As recounted in Shawn Francis Peters’ powerful new book, Judging Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Supreme Court’s decision unleashed a wave of virulent anti-Jehovah’s Witness persecution across the nation that is little remembered today. Witness missionaries were chased and beaten by vigilantes in Texas. Their literature was confiscated and even burned. Less than a week after the court decision, a Kingdom Hall was stormed and torched in Kennebunk, Maine. American Legion posts harassed Witnesses nationwide. The American Civil Liberties Union reported to the Justice Department that nearly 1,500 Witnesses were physically attacked in more than 300 communities nationwide. One Sourthern sheriff told a reporter why Witnesses were being run out of town: “They’re traitors; the Supreme Courts sys so. Ain’t you heard?” Partly because of this violent reaction to its decision, the Supreme Court reversed itself with remarkable speed. On Flag Day of 1943, the court handed down West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette, using some of the most eloquent language ever written to describe the fist Amendment freedoms Americans enjoy. “If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion or other matters of opinion,” Justice Robert Jackson wrote. The active persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses abated somewhat, although thousands were arrested during World War II for seeking religious exemption from military service. They were accused, baselessly, of being Nazi sympathizers. And Witnesses continued to have run-ins with the law over leafleting, in part because of their sometimes-confrontational style. Peters tells of a Jehovah’s Witness caravan riding through Arkansas waving banners that read, “Religion is a Racket” and “Preachers are Crooks.” Today those message probably would not cause a stir, and even then they should not have triggered violence. But in the America of the 1940s, they were pretty close to fighting words. Speaking of “fighting words,” that concept was embodied in First Amendment law by another Jehovah’s Witness case, Chaplinsky vs. New Hampshire. A Witness named Walter Chaplinsky was arrested in Rochester, N.H., for his fiery street-corner evangelizing, which included attacks on the “harlot” Catholic Church and on saluting the flag. The crowd that gathered became so angry that a man tried to impale Chaplinsky on a pole bearing the U.S. flag. The supreme Court’s 1942 decision placed “fighting words” such as those used by Chaplinsky outside the First Amendment’s protection if they “by their very utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.” That standard remains relevant today and helped defeat politically correct speech codes that would have censored far-less harmful speech. Perhaps the longest-lasting contribution the Witnesses made to Fist Amendment freedoms came in a 1940 case, Cantwell vs. Connecticut. The Supreme Court. said Jehovah’s Witness Newton Cantwell and his two sons, Jesse and Russell, should not have been arrested for soliciting without a license on the streets of New Haven, Conn. Before the Cantwell decision, it was not legally clear that the First Amendment protected religious practitioners against restrictions at the state and local levels as well as federal. But the Supreme Court in Cantwell said it did, thereby ushering in an era of greatly strengthened religious freedoms. All religions have the Jehovah’s Witnesses to thank for the expansion of that freedom. But in their publications and on their Web site (www.watchtower.org) Witnesses make scant mention of their persecution and their legal battles. Unlike other groups, the Witnesses have not resorted to televangelism and don’t claim a high profile presence in society. Witnesses – all 1 million of them in this country, 3.5 million of them world wide – spread their message door-to-door and through the publications Watchtower and Awake! “Their simple but eloquent voices tell a remarkable story,” Peters says, “one that lays bare the extremes of cowardice and courage so often found in nations engrossed in war.” -- Tony Mauro, the Supreme Court correspondent for American Lawyer Media and a member of USA TODAY’s board of contributors, is the author of a new book, Illustrated Great Decision of the Supreme Court. Correction; members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses now number in excess of 7 million world wide.
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#1. To: richard9151 (#0)
wow. who knew? maybe i shouldn't get so annoyed when they knock on my door. nah, they're uninvited nuisances. how've you been, richard?
Good, Christine, and you? Nice to have my computer back! As to the 'univited nuisances,' that is what I used to think as well. I should have checked closer a long time ago! Here are just a few of the things that I have learned about them over the last 9 months. 1. They offer alligence to no government of man, nowhere on the earth. 2. One wing of the Holocaust Museum in DC is dedicated to them and what was done to them in Nazi Germany -- Jehovah's Witnesses were the first people rounded up by the Nazis. 3. They do not vote, or participate in any manner with any government -- ever. 4. They live as closely as is possible in this world today according to the principles laid down in the Bible. 5. They have congregations in more than 200 lands world wide. 6. Everything they offer is free -- they NEVER ask for money. 7. They have NO ministers, priests or any kind of a heirarchy. And, no churches. They understand that the congregation is the church. 8. NO ONE receives a wage from the congregation. Everything is completely volutary, on the part of the people of the congregation. 9. They admit no one into the congregation that smokes, does drugs, is homosexual, a member of the government, a politician, or drinks to excess. Or, is a member of the military. 10. And, they have their own judicial process where if any member of the congregation back slides, they are asked to leave the group. Frankly, they are the answer to organized religion, because they understand that the principles within the Bible are not a religion; they are a way of life. Needless to say, I have been impressed. Equally impressive is what I have observed locally in how they affect those who do study with them, and how it changes the lives of such students. Another impressive fact is the fruitage of their work. I live in a town of about 25,000. I would estimate that there are more than a 1,000 people here that are members of the congregation or are Bible students with the congregation. Oh, did I mention that I am now one of such students? And, Christine, as much as I understand and have learned through the years, reading with them is like having the veils lifted off of my eyes. I very seldom find anyone who knows more details or facts than I do, or, who understands better than I do. I have NEVER found a group of people who, as a group, understands more than I do. I have now found that such a group. As I said, I am impressed.
good to have you back, richard! 2. One wing of the Holocaust Museum in DC is dedicated to them and what was done to them in Nazi Germany -- Jehovah's Witnesses were the first people rounded up by the Nazis. richard, didn't that raise a red flag? And like another people, they seem to have a propensity for fudging their supposed numbers in the camps: corior.blogspot.com/2006/...ehovahs-witnesses-in.html Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. They reject God's word that Jesus is The mighty God, The everlasting Father, which in my mind, makes them a cult. "Secrets of The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society Their Connection to Freemasonry and the New World Order Better Known as The Jehovah's Witnesses....." "......It has been proven that The Watchtower Society has been involved in Enochian magick since its founding by Charles Taze Russell. Russell himself has been linked to a Satanic bloodline and was operating with key figures whose agenda has been a New World order. ...... "...See an early edition of the Watchtower with this Masonic crown and cross on its cover. ....Russell was buried with a pyramid site marker or headstone if you will, with Masonic symbols engraved on it. This is a picture of the Masonic crown on Russell's tombstone. Click On Picture To Visit This Site! The above picture was taken from a Masons site in Texas. They have since removed the picture after this article. The above crown with the cross is very much a Masonic symbol. ......the plaque ..... reads "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society". ....." web.archive.org/web/20011...irtywatchtowersecrets.htm The Masonic Crown is also known as the fecundating cross and crown: ".....In The Masonic Report we find more about this emblem: "Question: What does Masonry's emblem of the 'Cross and Crown' actually symbolize? "Answer: The 'Cross' of Freemasonry is a philosophical cross, according to Albert Pike, 'Morals and Dogma,' p. 771. It is philosophical in the sense that it represents the generating fecundating principle by the perpendicular shaft, 350 MASONIC AND OCCULT SYMBOLS ILLUSTRATED and the matrix or womb of nature, the female producing principle by the horizontal shaft. The philosophy of the Masonic cross is totally phallic. "The 'Crown' of this Masonic emblems is also phallic, it being the first emanation of the Cabalistic Sephiroth...."4' A former Mason also explains: "The other York Rite jewelry you may see is the Templar symbol....It is a large Maltese cross with a circle in the center. Inside the circle is a red Latin cross within a crown. Around the arms of the cross is the Commandery motto, 'In Hoc Signo Vinces.' (In this sign, conquer!) "Although this may seem harmless enough, the motto is originally attributed to the emperor Constantine, who used it in conjunction with a supposedly heavenly vision to begin the subversion and politicization of Biblical Christianity into the false, apostate Alexandrian cult.... "A similar shell game is played with the word 'sign.'... The sign Constantine referred to was NOT a Christian cross, but a kind of 'X' which had both Christian and pagan associations. In modern magic, it is the sign of the slain and risen Egyptian god, Osiris (another version of the 'slain and risen' Hiram Abif). -Again Masonry has downgraded Jesus and replaced Him with its own 'christ'." [Emphasis in the original] 351 MASONIC AND EASTERN STAR SYMBOLS Two other groups (both with Masonic connections) use the cross and crown. Charles Taze Russell was a Mason who started the Jehovah Witnesses.'4' He used the red cross and other distinctive features of the Knights Templar logo.'" He also used the Masonic symbol of the winged sun-disk with snakes and he is "buried in a pyramid with masonic symbols on its capstone." 149 ......" http://watch.pair.com/lahaye.html "....We have founded many secret associations, which all work for our purpose, under our orders and our direction. We have made it an honor, a great honor, for the Gentiles to join us in our organizations (such as Masonry), which are, thanks to our gold, flourishing now more than ever. Yet it remains our secret that those Gentiles who betray their own and most precious interests, by joining us in our plot, should never know that those associations are of our creation, and that they serve our purpose. One of the many triumphs of our Freemasonry is that those Gentiles who become members of our Lodges, should never suspect that we are using them to build their own jails, upon whose terraces we shall erect the throne of our Universal King of the Jews; and should never know that we are commanding them to forge the chains of their own servility to our future King of the World . . . " B'Nai B'rith speech. Verdict: IMHO, Jehovah's Witnesses are another cryptoJew organization.
First off, Jesus is the mighty god, and they know that. Secondly, he IS NOT the Father, and they know that very well. If you would care to read the post I put up yesterday about Mary -- Mother of God? You may learn a few things. Thirdly, they know very well who the Jews are, and, they openly talk about them and the problems that they cause/have caused. And, such is repeated in their writings. Fourthly, I started off with your attitude when I started my Bible study with one of them, and NOTHING has been said by this group that is not EXACTLY Bible based. IN ALL CASES. Fifthly, no one can deny the fruit of their efforts, world wide. And I have yet to see any masonic sysmbols in anything they produce, so I am not inclined to take someone's word for sometning like that without personal knowledge. Sixth, just as they seldom say anything about the problems they have world wide with governments because of their refusal to bow down to the flags, serve in the military and etc., they have VERY VERY little to say about what happened in Germany. One man opened up to me about it, and mentioned the museum, and that was it. I have personal experience with them, and nothing I have seen or heard matches with ANYTHING that I have read/heard about them. The Russell name does not ring a bell with me. No one speaks much about individuals. EVERYONE talks about Jehovah and His Work. That about sums it up.
Scripture please. He is the Word, and He is Mighty God..... [And He is the ALMIGHTY GOD as the Bible says. To make a long story short, just see http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rev/1/8.html below] Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth...... Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not...... Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Jhn 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. Jhn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jhn 1:18 *** No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn001.html#1 Exd 33:20 — And he said, **** Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. "This is well explained by Rabbi Jehudah, in Sepher Cosri, (P. iv. 3.) ""Of that divine glory mentioned in the Scripture, there is one degree which the eyes of the prophets were able to explore; another which all the Israelites saw, as the cloud and consuming fire; the third is so bright, and so dazzling, that no mortal is able to comprehend it; but should anyone venture to look on it, his whole frame would be dissolved."" In such inconceivable splendour is the Divine Majesty revealed to the inhabitants of the celestial world, where he is said to ""dwell in the light which no man can approach unto."" (1Ti 6:16.) By the ""face of God,"" therefore, we are to understand that light inaccessible before which angels may stand, but which would be so insufferable to mortal eyes, that no man could see it and live. Exd 24:10; Gen 32:30; Deu 5:24; Jdg 6:22; Jdg 13:22; Isa 6:5; Jhn 1:18; 1Ti 6:16; Hbr 1:13; Rev 1:16,17" Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What [is] thy name? And he said, Jacob. Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked [him], and said, Tell [me], I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore [is] it [that] thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. [i.e., he SAW GOD'S FACE AND HE DID NOT DIE] ======== Gen 16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid [is] in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face. Gen 16:7 ¶ And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur. Gen 16:8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. Gen 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, **** I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. Gen 16:13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me? Gen 16:14 Wherefore the well was called Beerlahairoi; [Beer-lahai-roi = "well of the Living One seeing me" / ...where after the VISION OF GOD, my life is nevertheless preserved http://cf.blueletterbible.org/la...n.cfm?Strongs=H0883&t=kjv ] behold, [it is] between Kadesh and Bered. Gen 16:15 ¶ And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael. Gen 16:16 And Abram [was] fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram. ============================= Jdg 13:2 ¶ And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name [was] Manoah; and his wife [was] barren, and bare not. Jdg 13:3 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou [art] barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son. Jdg 13:4 Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean [thing]: Jdg 13:5 For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines. Jdg 13:6 ¶ Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of God came unto me, and his countenance [was] like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he [was], neither told he me his name: Jdg 13:7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean [thing]: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death. Jdg 13:8 ¶ Then Manoah intreated the LORD, and said, O my Lord, let the man of God which thou didst send come again unto us, and teach us what we shall do unto the child that shall be born. Jdg 13:9 And God hearkened to the voice of Manoah; and the angel of God came again unto the woman as she sat in the field: but Manoah her husband [was] not with her. Jdg 13:10 And the woman made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the [other] day. Jdg 13:11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, [Art] thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I [am]. Jdg 13:15 ¶ And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee. Jdg 13:16 And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and **** if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the LORD. For Manoah knew not that he [was] an angel of the LORD. Jdg 13:17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What [is] thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour? Jdg 13:18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it [is] *** secret? ["secret" "or, **** wonderful. It was because his name was secret that Manoah wished to know it. But the angel does not say it was secret, but **** hoo pailee, ""it is wonderful;"" **** the very character given to the Messiah: ""His name shall be called pailai, **** Wonderful,"" Isa 9:6."][other versions: http://www.blueletterbible.org/c...3&verse=18&version=KJV#18 ] Jdg 13:19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered [it] upon a rock unto the LORD: and [the angel] did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on. Jdg 13:20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that *** the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on [it], and fell on their faces to the ground. Jdg 13:21 But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he [was] an angel of the LORD. Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, **** We shall surely die, because we have seen God. Jdg 13:23 But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these [things], nor would as at this time have told us [such things] as these. He is not the equal of His Father. And, that is what Jesus says. Jesus IS GOD the Son, having taken on flesh to save man from his sins, until He has brought all who would be saved BACK TO HIMSELF, THE FATHER. Even the Pharisees knew He said He was God the Father; that's why they tried to stone Him: Jhn 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Jhn 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jhn 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Jhn 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, **** Before Abraham was, I AM. [ I AM That our LORD by this expression asserted his divinity and eternal existence, as the great I AM, appears evident from the use of the present tense, instead of the past tense, from its being in answer to the Jews, who enquired whether he had seen Abraham, and from its being thus understood by the multitude, who were exasperated at it to such a degree that they took up stones to stone him. The ancient Jews not only believed that the Messiah was superior to and LORD of all the patriarchs, and even of angels, but that his celestial nature existed with God from whom it emanated, before the creation, and that the creation was effected by his ministry. Exd 3:14; Isa 43:13; Isa 44:6,8; Isa 46:9; Isa 48:12; Rev 1:8 I AM Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God. Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any]. Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I [AM] he; I [AM] the first, I also [AM] the last. Rev 1:8 *** I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, **** the Almighty..... Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength. Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I AM the first and the last: Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.....] Jhn 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. Jesus, the Son, declaring Himself God the Father, the Great I AM, "hid Himself". Perhaps He became a "Holy Ghost". ============== If you would care to read the post I put up yesterday about Mary -- Mother of God? You may learn a few things. I didn't see anything there I haven't seen before. The Bible calls Mary the Mother of Jesus: Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/1/18.html "Mother of God" is what the Catholic Church calls her. The Catholic Church is not synonymous with GOD's church, as I said, and as you well know [or used to]. To use the traditions of the Catholic Church regarding Mary to try to disprove Jesus Christ is Almighty God is to compare apples and oranges, and quite disingenuous, and it is the essence of the Hegelian Dialectic, wherein they create the thesis and the antithesis so that they may provide synthesis, in this case, what we should all believe. I used to have a Jehovah's Witness come to my door all the time, usually bringing along another Lost Sheep. She ALWAYS denied that Jesus was Almighty God. Whenever I tried to explain her error, she would grab the other person and scurry away. ============== "What Do They Believe? EARTH . . . created by Jehovah . . . cared for by man . . . inhabited forever JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES believe in Almighty God, Jehovah, Creator of the heavens and the earth. ......" www.watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm To reiterate: Jesus IS Almighty God, Creator of the heavens and the earth...... Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made. Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him www.watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm That's NOT what the Bible says. Christ is The Word. [In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.] Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. . Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.
He is the Word, and He is Mighty God..... Why would I have to quote what you have already quoted for me? You placed the above Scripture right below the request, and that Scripture is correct. Then you went ahead and quoted that He is the Word, and He was with God...... You already did it for me. I have already quoted the Scripture where Jesus said that the Father is greater than He is. End of story. Jesus is a created being, just as we are, and He was created to do the will of He that sent Him. Who sent Him is Almighty God; there is only one God; Almighty God, who is forever; Jesus, in His present Spiritual form, is immortal, but He has not existed forever. I suggest you do some more reading. And you are going to get further with me if you make your point and do not paste and paste and paste.
#42. To: richard9151 (#40)
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth....In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD.... Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him [JESUS] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17 And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS, and by him all things consist. What's not to understand. Jesus Christ is God the Father as God said in Isaiah 9:6.
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#2. To: christine (#1)
how've you been, richard?
#31. To: richard9151 (#2)
#34. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#31)
The mighty God, The everlasting Father,
#39. To: richard9151 (#34)
(Edited)
And, as the Bible clearly spells out, Jesus is not Almighty God.
#40. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#39)
Scripture please.
Replies to Comment # 40. Then you went ahead and quoted that He is the Word, and He was with God......
End Trace Mode for Comment # 40.